Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:27 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:56 pm Aside from the Rock the Dragon set and Brian Drummond's cameo in Super
At this rate, it's a wonder we even got that.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by BeaBumby » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:17 am

sooooooo
what do you think are really the chances of this ever getting released in any capacity? At this point I'm losing hope, even though if they never release it then they just wasted a ton of money for the voice acting.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by Dbzfan94 » Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:53 pm

BeaBumby wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:17 am sooooooo
what do you think are really the chances of this ever getting released in any capacity? At this point I'm losing hope, even though if they never release it then they just wasted a ton of money for the voice acting.
Pretty much zilch at this point.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by SX10 » Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:04 pm

Seems much lower than before. But I don't ever recall Goku backing down, and neither should we.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by BeaBumby » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:59 pm

SX10 wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:04 pm Seems much lower than before. But I don't ever recall Goku backing down, and neither should we.
Honestly that gives me some much-needed strength, thenk ya
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by SX10 » Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:38 pm

BeaBumby wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:59 pm
SX10 wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:04 pm Seems much lower than before. But I don't ever recall Goku backing down, and neither should we.
Honestly that gives me some much-needed strength, thenk ya
I'm happy that I helps <3 this is one of the main reasons I love this franchise so much, Goku and other characters are such an inspiration to me and others.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:57 pm

At this stage there probably is a chance the dub could never be seen, but then again, it's still Dragon Ball, and Dragon Ball always makes money, so theoretically as long as Ocean still has the masters there should be no reason their Kai dub won't get released eventually.

I do think if you want something enough, you should never give up on it. I grew up with the Ocean cast, and the work of Tom Keenlyside and John Mitchell in Dragon Ball, so as this dub features both I'm never going to give up advocating for it's release.

Hell, if I reach my 80s, am happily retired, and I suddenly hear news this dub has leaked you can bet I'll binge it :lol:
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:43 pm

Stranger things have happened. At best it'll be released in some extremely limited edition set like the Rock the Dragon one was.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:16 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:43 pm Stranger things have happened. At best it'll be released in some extremely limited edition set like the Rock the Dragon one was.
Some days I wish Discotek had the rights to Dragon Ball, they would release Ocean Kai in a heartbeat, as well as all the other dubs like Harmony Gold, Westwood, Blue Water and the OG Dragon Ball movie and GT special Big Green dubs that never had a home release, and nothing would be limited edition.

We would also probably get more creative cover art than a character or two against a plain background.

They also talked about producing dubs in the past, which they likely haven't done yet because of the costs, but with Discotek would also put the profits from Dragon Ball to good use, like using Okratron for future dubs, or even Ocean for fans that grew up with those voices want an alternate English track if funds allowed.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:47 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:16 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:43 pm Stranger things have happened. At best it'll be released in some extremely limited edition set like the Rock the Dragon one was.
Some days I wish Discotek had the rights to Dragon Ball, they would release Ocean Kai in a heartbeat, as well as all the other dubs like Harmony Gold, Westwood, Blue Water and the OG Dragon Ball movie and GT special Big Green dubs that never had a home release, and nothing would be limited edition.

We would also probably get more creative cover art than a character or two against a plain background.

They also talked about producing dubs in the past, which they likely haven't done yet because of the costs, but with Discotek would also put the profits from Dragon Ball to good use, like using Okratron for future dubs, or even Ocean for fans that grew up with those voices want an alternate English track if funds allowed.
Yes!! That would be a dream come true if Discotek had the rights. I actually just purchased their Rose of Versailles Blu-Rays earlier this year.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by NitroEX » Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:33 am

A company like Discotek would be miles better than Funimation for a broadcast dub release, they're a lot more fan-centric and have a completionist attitude which I love but they unfortunately don't appear to have the financial backing to compete with the bigger distributors. I can't see them ever getting near a license like Dragon Ball which is a shame as they would do it justice.

While on the subject, the only thing that slightly worries me about Discotek are the audio additions made to certain releases of older dubs, I'm specifically thinking of one case with the Fatal Fury OVAs (coincidentally dubbed by Ocean during the 90s) which included a deleted scene that remained undubbed in English. Rather than take the Funimation/Escaflowne approach of redubbing the whole thing with a new cast they instead hired a studio to dub the excerpt with soundalikes of Jason Gray Stanford and others, basically to match the classic dub. I haven't heard the excerpt for myself yet but the practice itself isn't one I'm hugely in favour of, not unless the original actors are involved or it's a situation where an actor passed away.

Anyway, getting back on topic a bit, do you guys have any theories on who Kirby Morrow might've played in Kai? Part of me thinks they might've had him voice Bardock just to be meta and self-referential but it might be wishful thinking.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:51 am

NitroEX wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:33 amAnyway, getting back on topic a bit, do you guys have any theories on who Kirby Morrow might've played in Kai? Part of me thinks they might've had him voice Bardock just to be meta and self-referential but it might be wishful thinking.
It was probably Bardock. The only problem with casting Morrow as any character is the risk of sounding jarring because people would pick up on the similarities between the new role and his Goku voice, and Ocean likely would want every new role to feel distinctive and not derivative of what they've done in the past. It's worth noting Morrow really loved playing Goku, so recasting him in a lot of other roles would have felt like rubbing salt in the wound. Bardock is more forgiveable in both regards by virtue of being Goku's father, and it's a nice nod to the old dub. It's also possible that despite not fitting the performance Ocean wanted for this dub Karl Willems wanted to honour the work Morrow has done as Goku, especially given he directed some episodes of the Westwood dub himself.

I'm not sure who else Kirby Morrow could have been cast as. It's been theorized he could have played Trunks, but I doubt it very much, as the old Goku voice would be spotted from a mile away in such a major role. Perhaps, like Steve Olson, Kirby Morrow was cast in some minor roles, but I guess we'll see when and if this dub is released.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by BeaBumby » Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:17 pm

I fear one day there will be a final reply to this thread
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:28 am

As long as everyone stays civil and there are people who still care this thread is staying alive, I know I'll be here until I either pass away to the next dimension (which at my age of 30 years young hopefully will be a long time yet) or we see this dub.

I suppose for anyone interested (which I'm sure there are, given we've had regulars here posting for years) I do have an update of sorts.

Over two weeks ago I was in contact with someone at Toon-A-Vision, of course telling them about Kai, how great it would be for their channel, the importance of acquiring Ocean's version, etc. Having spoken to them here's what I can confirm:
  • They have looked into acquiring Ocean Kai for their channel
  • This request has been made by a number of people (so for anyone who emailed Toon-A-Vision requesting Ocean Kai, congrats, our voices have been heard :) )
  • The channel has spoke to Ken Morrison regarding this
My contact did confirm there is a catch, and that is.... Ocean said they don't want to release it yet :shock:

Now this may sound like a shock, and another downer for this dub being released, but what makes it worth discussing is that... perhaps this is not bad news.

To explain why Ocean not wanting to release Kai yet, even after 11 years potentially isn't bad I must reveal the only other useful piece of information my contact gave was Ken's explanation.

Apparently Ken told my contact Ocean "had other priorities more or less". What could this mean? Who knows, but let's examine the possibilities:
  • Ocean's Kai dub was being negotiated for Wow Unlimited's proposed cable channel, which didn't come to fruition
  • Wow has recently been bought by Genius, whose operations seem largely focused on VOD, but maybe they have considered broadcast too?
  • TheBlackPaladin can explain this more, as it's been his theory, but what if Dragon Quest: The Adventure of Dai is the holdup? It's a TOEI show that was being dubbed by Ocean, but there's been controversy surrounding Ocean's decision to outsource some of the voicework to non-Union dubbing studios in the US. Is TOEI freezing all negotiations with Ocean and their respective broadcasting partners in light of this?
Fortunately after speaking to me my contact said he emailed Ken Morrison again and will be awaiting a response. I asked him to keep me updated, although I've not heard anything from him in the last week.

Now here's the big question. Should I get back to my contact and ask has Ken Morrison responded to his last email? I was of the opinion since my contact is in the TV industry and I'm not, Ken would be able to tell him why Kai isn't a big priority for Ocean now and my contact wouldn't be able to tell me. Although in retrospect my contact made no indication this was the case, so should I ask?

Alternatively, having discussed this with more posters here privately I've considered the suggestion some of you have made to sporadically to ask my contact every 4-6 months for updates on Kai, and whether or not there is a possibility of Toon-A-Vision airing it.

So that's where we're at. Based on all the above I'm open to any thoughts, comments and suggestions on what this all could mean, where to go next, etc, but maybe, just maybe there's good news on the horizon.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by BeaBumby » Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:37 pm

Hey! That's pretty gud news! They have it and we have a good idea when they'll release it!
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:25 pm

That's certainly better than nothing!
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:20 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:28 am
  • TheBlackPaladin can explain this more, as it's been his theory, but what if Dragon Quest: The Adventure of Dai is the holdup? It's a TOEI show that was being dubbed by Ocean, but there's been controversy surrounding Ocean's decision to outsource some of the voicework to non-Union dubbing studios in the US. Is TOEI freezing all negotiations with Ocean and their respective broadcasting partners in light of this?
It's certainly possible Dai's distribution has been prioritized over anything else, but that kerfuffle with SAG is unlikely to have caused problems with Toei. If they cared much about that, they wouldn't have announced a nonunion American VA was joining World Trigger's cast. They've been mum about details on the newer seasons' dub, but Toei had Ocean do the first one.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:09 pm

Super Saiyan Prime wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:20 pm
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:28 am
  • TheBlackPaladin can explain this more, as it's been his theory, but what if Dragon Quest: The Adventure of Dai is the holdup? It's a TOEI show that was being dubbed by Ocean, but there's been controversy surrounding Ocean's decision to outsource some of the voicework to non-Union dubbing studios in the US. Is TOEI freezing all negotiations with Ocean and their respective broadcasting partners in light of this?
It's certainly possible Dai's distribution has been prioritized over anything else, but that kerfuffle with SAG is unlikely to have caused problems with Toei. If they cared much about that, they wouldn't have announced a nonunion American VA was joining World Trigger's cast. They've been mum about details on the newer seasons' dub, but Toei had Ocean do the first one.
To clarify, what I meant was that I think (<----big emphasis) that Toei doesn't want Ocean to prioritize the release of a show that is old news by this point (Kai) over the release of a newer show that they have high hopes for (Dai). In other words, Toei may want Ocean to get the newer show out first since it's...well, new.

One of Ocean's hold-ups to getting that show out is that they seem to be making a concerted effort towards hiring voice actors who are non-union and, for that matter, not even based in Canada, let alone Vancouver. I know more on that matter than I can say. Hopefully they just give up on that and do a union dub with Vancouver actors.

As far as Ian Sinclair being a "non-union actor" is concerned, that doesn't necessarily mean the World Trigger dub is non-union (though it certainly points to that being the case). A quirk of the US's ridiculously convoluted organized labor laws is that there are two kinds of states when it comes to unions: "union security states" and "right-to-work" states. If you join a union, then no matter where in the country you are based, you are technically not allowed to work on non-union projects and you are required to pay union dues in order to retain membership...however, depending on where you live, you may not have to join. In union security states (like California and New York), you have to join a union in order to get union work. In right-to-work states (like Texas), you are not required to join a union at all to get union work. That's how actors who aren't in LA like Colleen Clinkenbeard, Kaitlin Glass, and Mike McFarland have recently been in union dubs for a few Netflix shows.

Furthermore, in right-to-work states, not only do you not have to join a union, but unions are still legally required to provide people who participate in union projects with union benefits...in spite of the fact that they are not members, and thus, not paying union dues. Hence the reason "right-to-work" laws are not very popular with working-class people and extremely popular with big businesses: forcing unions to provide benefits to people who aren't paying for them is an effective way to bankrupt the unions. In other words, right-to-work states doesn't make unions illegal, it just takes away a ton of their power and a ton of their money.

So, that little mini-seminar of US labor laws (sorry! :lol: ) is a long way of saying that union dubs still have ways of casting non-union actors.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:30 pm

You know, sidebar, I was wondering...couldn't FUNimation's talent pool band together and form a union and FUNimation would basically have to capitulate at this point? Or does Texas law prevent that from happening? Or would FUNimation really go through the trouble of out-sourcing to a different pool?
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:57 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:30 pm You know, sidebar, I was wondering...couldn't FUNimation's talent pool band together and form a union and FUNimation would basically have to capitulate at this point? Or does Texas law prevent that from happening? Or would FUNimation really go through the trouble of out-sourcing to a different pool?
FUNimation technically could out-source to a different pool if they wanted to, because dubbing has gotten to the point where technology allows for that. The pandemic forced *tons* of voice acting productions to start recording remotely, dubs included. That's why you're starting to see a lot of dubbing companies hiring actors outside of their local area--because now they can, since they're no longer limited by geography. They just have an engineer screen-share the video with a voice actor (through a variety of different methods, such as Skype or Zoom or other programs), and then record the audio remotely from a home studio using programs like Source-Connect or ipDTL.

Of course, most actors still prefer recording in an actual studio, and these studios have still had actors physically come in under union-approved COVID health protocols...but the point is that recording dubs remotely, even if it's not preferable, has still proven to be doable and (relatively) reliable. Some studios actually even prefer it, both because it saves on cost and because it allows them to not have to worry about running afoul with the union over accidental COVID health protocol violations.

Now, with all that out of the way...while FUNimation could out-source its work, it won't. Not on a massive scale, anyway. With a few exceptios, there's very little enthusiasm among Texas actors for unionizing. The three biggest reasons are...

1 ) Texas is a right-to-work state, like I said, so most actors (understandably) don't see the point in joining a union and paying dues if they don't have to.

2 ) While FUNimation is not free of complaints (no company is), they have maintained an overall sense of good will with their actors by providing them with remote recording kits, which other dubbing companies did not. To be clear, it's not the dubbing company's job to do so, but that's precisely why a lot of the Texas actors appreciated it. Further adding to that overall sense of good will is that FUNimation was the only dubbing company to send a COVID-related relief check to actors who have done X amount of work with them. Again, not something a company is expected to do, and again, appreciated specifically because of that.

3 ) Finally, while I won't reveal the specifics, generally speaking...the way FUNimation is set up is that they pay their actors according to a "ranking" structure, where the base rate for actors is determined by their experience. The veterans like it because they feel appreciated, and the newcomers like it because they feel like they wouldn't necessarily be hired otherwise. Coincidentally, that kinda mimics how Japanese voice actors are paid in anime. Personally I'm not a huge fan of that system of payment at all, but I'm not based in Texas. If they like it, they like it, and that's what matters.

So, I'd love to see FUNimation's talent pool rally around going union, especially considering that FUNimation bought Crunchyroll, which is a Sony-owned company, and Sony is a SAG-AFTRA signatory. Heck, FUNimation itself is a Sony-owned company! Alas, most of the actors in the area just aren't on board with the idea. Here's hoping that changes!
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