Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by OmegaRockman » Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:57 pm

TVfan721 wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:25 pm Can someone post a link of the first time Lee showcased the voice? I wasn't aware of this.
Dragon Ball Ireland posted it a little further up:
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:15 am Interesting. It has less of the Madman vibe that we heard in Tockar's recent YouTube interview, and more of a spoiled brat (which is also fitting for the character). Although since Tockar said he tore his vocal chords to shreds I don't blame him taking it easy on this one off clip. I can definitely hear some Jennifer Bain influence in there, as well as Mark Hamill's Joker. I'll reserve final judgement until the day I hear the full performance, but I could see that voice working for Freeza.

Thanks again for sorting this out TVfan721, and NitroEx for helping with the Google Drive.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by 90sDBZ » Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:36 am

Sounds sort of similar to Dale Wilson's Imperfect Cell.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:51 am

I like that it's different, and clearly there's a lot of energy there, but again, this is just him screaming something. I do wonder what the normal speaking voice sounds like.

For the record, I kind of like it. It does sound like Freeza is more of a spoiled brat in this version, which is a cool interpretation of the character.

Critically, this take sounds nothing like Chris Ayres, Linda Young, or Pauline Newstone. He's not stepping on anyone's toes, he doesn't sound like someone doing an impression, he's doing his version of the character. That a lot of people aren't on board with this different take is not surprising in the slightest! I still see people complain that Scott McNeil's Piccolo sounds like Wolverine and Brian Drummond's Vegeta sounds too villainous. Typically Americans or teenagers who never watched the Ocean dubs. A "new" take on a character you're very attached to is often going to illicit an initially negative response.

I just really wish this dub would release so we could actually judge the performance rather than making assumptions based on brief off-the-cuff snippets!
Maybe someone should send some emails to MangaUK and request they look into this as a DVD release. :lol:
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:47 am

Robo4900 wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:51 amMaybe someone should send some emails to MangaUK and request they look into this as a DVD release. :lol:
Well Manga UK are now trading as Funimation in the UK and Ireland, but I too would still encourage people, as I always have to reach out to them, although they probably won't budge unless a very significant number of people email them.

I really hope this dub is released one day. It's probably a futile endeavour, but I've been doing some digging, trying to get names of ADR directors, engineers, script writers, or anyone other than actors and musicians who have worked for Ocean, Blue Water or Chinook and contacting them on social media to enquire about what they know about the dub.

I doubt anyone would have any more clarity on the eternal holdup with this dub than what we already have, but maybe worst case scenario I'll get a few more names to add to the staff list. We'll see, but I'll keep everyone here updated.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by NitroEX » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:29 pm

I don't understand how anyone could genuinely have faith in MangaUK to do anything at this point. History speaks for itself here, they've done nothing for the prior Canadian dubs... Well, except help people forget that they existed. Now that they've branded themselves as Funimation UK the writing is on the wall. They've always been the equivalent of false prophets who just want your money. They'll claim to care about what fans want – so long as it's what Funimation has already put out.

Friendly reminder that they knew of the orange bricks "controversial" picture and rushed them to the UK market anyway. Their release strategy has always catered to the most basic of casual fans so anything but surface-level changes are going to fall on deaf ears.
Can someone post a link of the first time Lee showcased the voice? I wasn't aware of this.
Dragon Ball Ireland posted it a little further up:
Interesting. It has less of the Madman vibe that we heard in Tockar's recent YouTube interview,
Wasn't a particularly illuminating interview but at least it provided us with confirmation that Kirby Morrow was indeed a part of the cast. It's something that was suspected before since he spoke about auditioning but wasn't really confirmed. We still don't know what his role might've been but at least he was in it. It would be interesting if he got to be Bardock.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:41 pm

NitroEX wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:29 pm I don't understand how anyone could genuinely have faith in MangaUK to do anything at this point. History speaks for itself here, they've done nothing for the prior Canadian dubs... Well, except help people forget that they existed. Now that they've branded themselves as Funimation UK the writing is on the wall. They've always been the equivalent of false prophets who just want your money. They'll claim to care about what fans want – so long as it's what Funimation has already put out.
MangaUK did try to do stuff with the Canadian dubs; the plan with the Orange Bricks was to sync up the Canadian dubs, but since the Canadian dubs weren't uncut, they couldn't do it, and it wasn't seen as wise to release a second, edited release specifically for those dubs at that time. Unlike Funimation, they didn't want to flood the market with different releases.

Later on, there was interest from the guy at the top (can't remember his name) in releasing the Rock The Dragon set in the UK, but it didn't end up materialising.

I do think MangaUK would be interested in doing something to cater to the Ocean dub fans, they just have to be convinced it would sell well. And I think it probably would, though really, it would be smarter if they did a box set of Z, with the Ocean dub where applicable (and the Ocean edit of Funi's dub for 54-107). That would probably sell well for the same reasons the RTD set sold well in the USA.

I know for a fact that the people working at MangaUK want to do right by Dragon Ball fans, but the reality of the business of distributing Dragon Ball makes it very difficult, with all the weird politics with Toei, and the way Funimation seems to be unable to provide good materials for MangaUK to release (they're not exactly in a position to acquire and transfer Funi's 16mm reels for their own UK release, for instance). I do think a Canadian dubs box set would be possible, though. The rebrand to Funimation is just a consistency of brand thing, I think it's still the same staff, and probably the situation with them and Funi remains the same (Funi doesn't care what MangaUK does as long as it makes them money).
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by SX10 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:55 pm

Remember SubZero Ice? "Maniacally awesome" was how he had heard Frieza described. Maniacal sounds right here lol! I guess Saiyan is pronounced the way it always has been in this dub too.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:13 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:41 pmLater on, there was interest from the guy at the top (can't remember his name) in releasing the Rock The Dragon set in the UK, but it didn't end up materialising.
Worth noting, the individual that expressed interest in Rock the Dragon, Jerome Mazandarani, no longer works for Manga UK and is now with Arrow Video. Most anime fans I've spoken to assume it's because since the rebrand with everything is being done from the US Jerome is no longer needed. So, while I would love to see any of the Canadian dubs getting a home release, it may not be Manga UK's decision anymore, and Funimation may be the ones fans need to convince it would sell.

I say now is as good a time as any for the Canadian dubs to be released, since there's nothing in print other than the OG Dragon Ball movies that hasn't had a UK release, and by this time next year all the attention will be turned to Super Hero, and possibly the continuation of the Super anime, so Manga UK (or Funimation) have far more to lose than gain by waiting until they're convinced it would sell.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:19 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:13 pm Worth noting, the individual that expressed interest in Rock the Dragon, Jerome Mazandarani, no longer works for Manga UK and is now with Arrow Video. Most anime fans I've spoken to assume it's because since the rebrand with everything is being done from the US Jerome is no longer needed. So, while I would love to see any of the Canadian dubs getting a home release, it may not be Manga UK's decision anymore, and Funimation may be the ones fans need to convince it would sell.
Jerome left quite some time before the rebrand, and in my experience most anime fans don't know jack shit, to be brutally honest, especially in regards to Dragon Ball, where speculation, assumption, and just making shit up are the name of the game when it comes to information online. ("Toonami saved DBZ!", "The Ocean actors were asked to mimic the Funi actors when they came back!", "The Westwood dub was created to satisfy cancon!", etc.)

And despite the rebrand, I imagine it's still the same company. The rename is just for consistency of branding. Only one set of box art, etc. needs to be printed when MangaUK import this or that DVD from Funimation.
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:13 pm I say now is as good a time as any for the Canadian dubs to be released, since there's nothing in print other than the OG Dragon Ball movies that hasn't had a UK release, and by this time next year all the attention will be turned to Super Hero, and possibly the continuation of the Super anime, so Manga UK (or Funimation) have far more to lose than gain by waiting until they're convinced it would sell.
Agreed.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by Hellspawn28 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:34 pm

Lee Tockar's Freeza's voice sounds like Nitrous Oxide from the Crash Bandicoot franchise and not Freeza if you ask me.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by NitroEX » Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:11 pm

MangaUK did try to do stuff with the Canadian dubs; the plan with the Orange Bricks was to sync up the Canadian dubs, but since the Canadian dubs weren't uncut, they couldn't do it
Is this from something they said on a podcast? Either way, it's a fine excuse, but one that's unlikely to be the whole truth. Even if they expressed it publicly (which most likely was done to stave off negative responses ahead of their first release), they would have needed to acquire the audio tracks from various companies and licensed them, and in the case of the Westwood dub, that would have not been easy or cheap to do. I don't believe they would have gone out of their way and paid for all those tracks (including Funi's Saban dub) on top of their DB license with Toei. Financially, I don't think it was going to happen regardless of the sync issue. It needed to be a separate release, but they wouldn't have the forethought to plan that either, they were always aiming for quick, easy and cheap but they wouldn't publicly say that, hence the other excuse.
Unlike Funimation, they didn't want to flood the market with different releases.
They've already done that. Starting with the orange bricks was the most damning part. It created the same problem the US has; The majority of casuals are content with a low-quality widescreen release and wouldn't shell out for something better unless it was on a new format (Blu-ray) which they also used the same strategy with. It's diminishing returns from that point. They knew of the issues with the releases and still brushed it under the rug. Funimation at least had the excuse of being ignorant and/or incompetent. Manga walked into the same bad deal knowingly to get to profits quicker.
there was interest from the guy at the top (can't remember his name) in releasing the Rock The Dragon set in the UK, but it didn't end up materialising.
That was Jerome, the same guy in the interview I posted. I recall that interaction before he deleted his account, but his initial dismissal of Kai's Ocean dub before that was more than telling of his attitude towards a separate release of Kai. And yes, he was still working at Manga in a lead role up until this year, feel free to check his LinkedIn.

RTD was only considered because it was revealed to him as a Funimation product (which Ocean Kai is not), this matches their release strategy thus far. There is no reason to be hopeful of future Canadian releases from them, including Westwood or Blue Water. Evidence points to them not caring about box sets that Funimation hasn't created themselves.

Another thing is, the RTD not materialising after all these years adds to my argument, they ultimately didn't have the motivation to get that set for the UK despite what Jerome told you (and despite it being a Funimation product, at that). I believe it will remain this way as all prior requests for Ocean dubbed DB has similarly fallen on deaf ears. It's not as if people haven't been requesting this stuff until now, it's gone on for years, ever since Manga got the DB license. It's not like we're doing anything new by asking for it now. It's just a drop in the bucket. They already know by now and their silence on the subject speaks volumes.
I know for a fact that the people working at MangaUK want to do right by Dragon Ball fans,
Are you working for them? I kid but, that would help explain the blind loyalty and optimism for a company that up until this point has, what... At best, done the bare minimum? And, in more than a few ways, honestly made things worse. Virtually nothing about them has been respectable, they've acted as lapdogs taking the path of least resistance up until a predictable merger with their overlords. Their one shining moment having fixed a tint on Super Broly that Funi (somehow) put there. Wow, what a company.
but the reality of the business of distributing Dragon Ball makes it very difficult, with all the weird politics with Toei, and the way Funimation seems to be unable to provide good materials for MangaUK to release (they're not exactly in a position to acquire and transfer Funi's 16mm reels for their own UK release, for instance).
It's tricky, but other foreign distributors have managed better deals for themselves without resorting to Funimation's assets (and despite Toei's apparent stubbornness), so things are possible with the right negotiators. I think a lot of it is down to Manga's convenience of working with their preferred partners (like Funimation or Madman) and a clear lack of care and attention to detail for each individual brand they distribute. The problem is that we've since seen what a distributor that cares looks like, which makes the Manga situation all the more frustrating because of how late to the game they were, and all the options they squandered considering their unique situation with the UK's history with DB.

Another thing is, they can get materials from Toei. I'm fairly certain they've even accidentally mentioned something about this at one point regarding the DB sets; that they should have been only getting things straight from Toei (perhaps not in regards to video, but still), only they broke that rule on many occasions due to the convenience and ease of their relationship with Funi or Madman, even in situations when those companies weren't meant to be involved.

Anyway, point is, in the digital age, Toei could have provided footage easier than before, and if other countries managed to get better footage than Funi's widescreen assets then I'm sure they could have too. If Toei couldn't provide, then the French DVD footage (which I believe was remastered in 09) was also a 4:3 option if they had really wanted it, and unlike dub tracks, it would have been a much higher priority and financially reasonable thing to actually acquire.
The rebrand to Funimation is just a consistency of brand thing, I think it's still the same staff, and probably the situation with them and Funi remains the same (Funi doesn't care what MangaUK does as long as it makes them money).
Most likely the same staff, sure (minus Jerome, which would be an improvement... If it wasn't for the merger) but if the culture is still the same within then that's all the more reason for nothing to change or improve, and that's not even mentioning the new Funimation influence. Plus, most of the damage has been done already by this point.

Getting back to Funi, I personally don't think there's any truth to them not caring what Manga do, they've seemed to be very close collaborators prior to their merge (even if only for convenience) and I think that the Funimation (US) influence will logically increase now that they're under the same banner. They're almost certainly going to have to have US approval on things from now on, and the reality is that the US Funimation wants nothing to do with an Ocean Kai release, fans requests be damned.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:48 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:51 am
Critically, this take sounds nothing like Chris Ayres, Linda Young, or Pauline Newstone. He's not stepping on anyone's toes, he doesn't sound like someone doing an impression, he's doing his version of the character. That a lot of people aren't on board with this different take is not surprising in the slightest!
I’m not on board with it because it sounds bad not because it’s different.

But again, to be fair, it’s a 10 second clip. Done for a fan no less and not from the actual show. Seeing him actually perform as Freeza may change my opinion.
I still see people complain that Scott McNeil's Piccolo sounds like Wolverine .

Well that’s technically accurate. Seeing as how Scott Mcneil did voice Wolverine in the X-men Evolution cartoon. But since Saban’s Dragon Ball Z came first it’s just silly to complain about Piccolo sounding like a guy his voice actor also plays. Like “ugghh I hate Mark Hamill’s Joker he sounds too much like the Hobgoblin from Spider-man!!!!”

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:13 pm

NitroEX wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:11 pmIt's tricky, but other foreign distributors have managed better deals for themselves without resorting to Funimation's assets (and despite Toei's apparent stubbornness), so things are possible with the right negotiators. I think a lot of it is down to Manga's convenience of working with their preferred partners (like Funimation or Madman) and a clear lack of care and attention to detail for each individual brand they distribute. The problem is that we've since seen what a distributor that cares looks like, which makes the Manga situation all the more frustrating because of how late to the game they were, and all the options they squandered considering their unique situation with the UK's history with DB.

Another thing is, they can get materials from Toei. I'm fairly certain they've even accidentally mentioned something about this at one point regarding the DB sets; that they should have been only getting things straight from Toei (perhaps not in regards to video, but still), only they broke that rule on many occasions due to the convenience and ease of their relationship with Funi or Madman, even in situations when those companies weren't meant to be involved.

Anyway, point is, in the digital age, Toei could have provided footage easier than before, and if other countries managed to get better footage than Funi's widescreen assets then I'm sure they could have too. If Toei couldn't provide, then the French DVD footage (which I believe was remastered in 09) was also a 4:3 option if they had really wanted it, and unlike dub tracks, it would have been a much higher priority and financially reasonable thing to actually acquire.
Considering recent revelations that Ocean Studios still has the Canadian Z edit and Westwood dub masters I think the best approach Manga UK could have taken when they relaunched Dragon Ball Z in the UK in 2012 would have been to acquire those TV edits from Ocean (with approval from TOEI and Funimation from everything up to the Westwood dub) for dub-only DVDs and then imported the Dragon Boxes but with the Faulconer score added. It would have catered to all three fanbases with only two releases, and both releases would give English-speaking fans elsewhere incentive to import, as they would each offer unique viewing experiences not found on the US or Australian sets, all while still being in 4:3. Sadly, the thinking at that time was that AB Groupe created the Westwood dub and had the rights (though they may have still had distribution rights at that time), and it would have taken someone with great initiative to have planned this all out.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by NitroEX » Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:33 pm

I too would have vastly preferred Dragon Boxes for the UK, but my understanding is that no other country outside of Japan managed to get those besides North America, and it was only a limited deal. Whether that was a Toei decision to prevent reverse importing from Japanese buyers or Funimation just not wanting to print more is anybody's guess.

But yeah, an edited/TV dub release would have then been the perfect companion for Dragon Boxes, and anybody wanting the orange bricks with Faulconer score could have simply ordered them online. It would have been a win-win and driven importing from both sides since a lot of US and Canadian fans would no doubt have been interested in a box set of the Canadian dub.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:36 pm

NitroEX wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:33 pm I too would have vastly preferred Dragon Boxes for the UK, but my understanding is that no other country managed to get those besides North America, and that was only a limited deal. Whether that was a Toei decision to prevent reverse importing from Japanese buyers or Funimation just not wanting to print more is anybody's guess.
That's only from the English perspective. All non-English countries got Dragon Box-based masters. Funimation simply decided they'd create their own masters, the Orange Bricks, rather than use the Dragon Boxes.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by 90sDBZ » Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:10 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:13 pm Jerome Mazandarani, no longer works for Manga UK and is now with Arrow Video.
I didn't realize he'd left until now. I remember him still being very much a part of it during the DBS Broly theatrical run, but I guess that was 2 and a half years ago at this point. Crazy how time flies.

I like Arrow Video and own quite a few of their releases. Good to know he's with them.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:21 pm

That's supposed to be a British Mark Hamill Frieza? I'm sorry, but I don't hear it.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by SX10 » Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:20 am

Taking it back a step, when people were reminiscing about how much has changed while awaiting the dub's arrival, it certainly has been a wild ride for me too. Start of 2013; Blockbuster had just gone under and I was living with my parents, unemployed for around 3 months, surfing the web at god knows when. Nostalgia hits me and I decide to google, "Ocean dub Dragon Ball Kai", because dammit, I could dream and it leads me here.

Since then, I started a new job with a company that brought in an actual full-time wage (it wasn't all bad at first). I was self healing after a horrible 2012. So on rolls 2013. I had a crazy secret relationship that was as amazing as it was unstable and ego shattering, cue soul crushing couple of months, then in 2014, met the girl I've been with for nearly 8 years now - we have 3 kids. Hell, I even finally got diagnosis AND treatment for my depression and ADHD (a lifetime in the making) and all the time, this dub, waiting in the wings.

This place was here for all of it, which, yes, I don't post much outside of this topic, if at all, but this is all as much a part of me as anything else. I come here at LEAST once a day, every day.

And I don't feel weird or guilty or ashamed by that, because DBZ, in fact, Ocean dub DBZ, was such a major part of my childhood and formative to my persona when it aired on CN all those years ago and blew me away.

Together we've revealed cast and crew details, gotten voice samples, actually GOT the show on track for release (then lost it), spoke to the licence holder for god sake and the creative management.

The dub exists. It's out there. I don't care about what, where, when, how and why. I believe I'm gonna see it.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:38 am

I keep forgetting how old this saga is. Like, wow. 2010?! I was a completely different person back then!
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:01 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:38 am I keep forgetting how old this saga is. Like, wow. 2010?! I was a completely different person back then!
Same. I was 40 lbs lighter, thought Dragon Ball Z Kai was amazing and only nostalgiatards could like Z better and was all around a much more optimistic person.

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