Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

[Scsigs]

But Scott didn't play Kami.

Huh, you're right. I was sure he played him, at the very least in the movies.

Maybe you're thinking about the fact that Sabat plays both in DBZ & DB, plus Lanipator does the same in DBZA. It stands to reason that Kami & Piccolo would be voiced by the same person in any version of the series, since they're 2 halves of the same being, just separated, so Scott playing both would make sense to think that's what happened with the casting.

[NitroEX]

For DB, I believe AB Groupe had Blue Water use translated French scripts to save money.

The UK/Canadian dub of DB is a strange case indeed. For the later half of the series they do seem to be using a completely different script to Funi (probably the French version, which was far more accurate. Examples include actually explaining that Piccolo was a Demon Clansman, how the souls of his victims can't pass on etc. and Goku actually proposing to ChiChi "properly", "Why not get married?" versus Funimation's horrible take), with only a few lines sounding (probably coincidentally) identical.

However, for about the first half of the series, the script is very, very similar to Funimation's, except for a few inaccurate lines that are, shockingly, "fixed" to be closer to the original Japanese. I have no idea how this even came to be, but I'm pretty sure about this, I used to spend waay too much time watching the Funi dub with Japanese subs alongside the Blue Water version.

One example I have in mind is when Bulma first meets Goku. First of all he actually introduces himself as Son Goku (!?), and then there's this scene where Bulma first sees Goku's tail. In both Funimation dubs (Ocean and in-house), in a classic example of a stupid Funimation line, Bulma simply remarks "what a weirdo!" to herself at the sight, while in the Japanese version she thinks about how he looks like a goof running around with a fake tail. This is the only time Bulma makes a comment like this, and it's really essential dialogue that sets up the pay off that Goku's tail *isn't* fake, and without it viewers might just assume that having tails is pretty normal in this world. Much to my surprise, in the BW dub Bulma says something to the extent of "don't worry Bulma, there's no way that thing can be real!" to herself when Goku's waving his tail around. I don't think things like this could just be coincidentally more accurate, someone must have been skimming through the script and comparing it to another translation.

This isn't the only example, a few other things here and there are altered, including minor things like attack names (the Tri-Beam (urg) becomes the "Spirit Cannon") and the "Power Pole" being called the Nyoi-bo. from episode 1.
I'm of the strong opinion that the Blue Water dub is far better than the Funimation version, the dialogue is way more accurate and the acting is hardly much worse. I highly recommend people checking it out if they like their Dragon Ball in English.

This type of stuff, along with the Blue Water GT dub having accurately translated scripts, are strong indicators that Ocean would rather default to accuracy for Dragon Ball when not tied to Funimation.

The inaccurate names in the Blue Water versions were simply holdovers from the Ocean Z dub (which used Funimation's scripts as the base) but once they got to the latter part of DB, and then GT, we got entirely different names for any new characters that hadn't been introduced yet. The Shadow Dragons are a great example of this, they use names such as Su Shenron and San Shenron in the BW dub as opposed to Nuova Shenron or Eis Shenron in the Funi dub. Had they not already established "Shenron" in the Z dub they probably would've taken it a step further and used "Shenlong" instead, which the recent Bang Zoom dub does do, along with using the name Blooma instead of Bulma (although Bang Zoom's scripts are terribly awkward at times and not as well structured as the Ocean or Funi scripts). The Funi scripts, while understandable and usually entertaining, often bring with them a lot of name changes and questionable localisations from their older dubs, I'd be curious to see if this dub retains any of Funi's naming conventions for simplicity sake (as most western Dragon Ball media uses Funi's names) or if they deviated from them once again, like with the GT dub. For Ocean Kai, I could see them going with the BW GT approach, that dub also had a few puns sprinkled into the dialogue to make it more friendly for kids TV but was otherwise quite accurate.

For anyone thinking "but what about the Pioneer dubs?" those, while produced and translated independently by Pioneer and Ocean, still had to use Funimation's character and attack names because of whatever terms Funimation had set for that agreement. If they hadn't been made in association with Funimation they likely would've gone more accurate for the names too.

I'm of the opinion that they will probably wind up recycling Funimation's scripts. This dub has always lagged behind the Texas one in production and the shared video makes me think shared scripts, like end of Z.

Given how long this dub took to plan, record and produce (roughly 3-4 years on and off for 98 episodes), and the fact that it was not airing alongside Funi's dub (like the Z dub) I would imagine they wouldn't feel the need to use Funi's scripts here as their schedule didn't seem to be as much of an issue. The only way I could see Ocean using Funi's Kai scripts would be if they were the ones who originally translated them but I don't see that being the case, Funi were translating their own scripts in-house when Kai started.

Maybe you're thinking about the fact that Sabat plays both in DBZ & DB, plus Lanipator does the same in DBZA. It stands to reason that Kami & Piccolo would be voiced by the same person in any version of the series, since they're 2 halves of the same being, just separated, so Scott playing both would make sense to think that's what happened with the casting.

The Japanese version didn't cast Kami and Piccolo with the same actor so Funimation's casting is not a precedent that needs to be followed. Funi likely only did it in the first place to avoid hiring an old man actor, in the Z dub Sabat clearly makes his Piccolo and Kami voices sound as different as possible so it actually contradicts with the idea that they wanted it to be the same voice. The disparity between them in Kai is lesser but his acting still suffers when he does that "old man" voice, it didn't sound as genuine as Dale Wilson's.

Oh and, not that it matters anyway (since TFS isn't official and is a parody) but they actually don't copy the Funi dub in that area. Kami is a different guy in the episodes I've seen.

I'd prefer French Tickner, since he tends to play older men.
http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/mov ... k-Vs/Odin/

He might sound old but Ticker's voices tend to be for characters that either sound regal, dignified or kind. Doesn't exactly scream Roshi to me. Something like this could work for the comedy stuff but his speaking voices don't strike me as being very fitting for Roshi There's just nothing "funny" about his voice nor does he give the sense of being a martial arts master.

[8000 Saiyan]

Uhh, Kami and Piccolo Daimao have the same voice in Japanese.

Tickner could always surprise you. And you know what? I would gladly take Tickner over Old Man Krillin.

[Robo4900]

Maybe you're thinking about the fact that Sabat plays both in DBZ & DB, plus Lanipator does the same in DBZA. It stands to reason that Kami & Piccolo would be voiced by the same person in any version of the series, since they're 2 halves of the same being, just separated, so Scott playing both would make sense to think that's what happened with the casting.

Yeah, that's probably at least part of it.

I must say, I do fully advocate the idea of Piccolo and Kami being different actors. After all, in Japanese, although Piccolo Daimao and Kami were the same actor, Piccolo Jr. was a different guy, so it would actually be more true to the original version for Piccolo and Kami to be different actors.

Perhaps I'd be a little softer on Sabat's Piccolo if they'd got a different actor for Daimao, compared to Junior.

Nitro -- Lots of great points there. I do agree with you in general.

[Scsigs]

Maybe you're thinking about the fact that Sabat plays both in DBZ & DB, plus Lanipator does the same in DBZA. It stands to reason that Kami & Piccolo would be voiced by the same person in any version of the series, since they're 2 halves of the same being, just separated, so Scott playing both would make sense to think that's what happened with the casting.

The Japanese version didn't cast Kami and Piccolo with the same actor so Funimation's casting is not a precedent that needs to be followed. Funi likely only did it in the first place to avoid hiring an old man actor, in the Z dub Sabat clearly makes his Piccolo and Kami voices sound as different as possible so it actually contradicts with the idea that they wanted it to be the same voice. The disparity between them in Kai is lesser but his acting still suffers when he does that "old man" voice, it didn't sound as genuine as Dale Wilson's.

Oh and, not that it matters anyway (since TFS isn't official and is a parody) but they actually don't copy the Funi dub in that area. Kami is a different guy in the episodes I've seen.

Kami & King Piccolo had the same voices in Japanese, but the Piccolo from after the King Piccolo arc doesn't, probably to have a younger actor step into the role than an old man, since the character was younger. However, isn't Jr. a reincarnation of Daimao technically? I could see it going either way in any language, really, since they're still 2 halves of one being. Whether or not they have the same voice actor, it really doesn't matter, but don't tell me the logic doesn't make sense. For the Z dub, remember, they didn't have a large enough budget to work with for hiring actors, which is why they hired who they did. I doubt hiring an old man was in the cards. They DID have Sabat play every other side character, remember, which is why he got a large assortment of actors to voice characters in Kai. FUNi had both built up their roster of actors they could call, as well as had a good amount of money to pay them all. Hell, he wanted Scott McNeil to be piccolo again, but the timing wasn't apparently right for him to fly down. I imagine that continually flying him round-trip between Texas & Canada wouldn't have been expensive too, so it was probably better for Sabat to continually play the role, even if his voice for him HAD become closer to his Zoro voice by then.
On DB, he was the one calling the shots, since he was the dub director, so either he saw that King Piccolo & Kami had the same VAs in Japanese & wanted to keep that for the dub, or he thought it made sense for him to voice him. Either way, it made sense. Him reprising Jr. either was a result of him saying it made sense, or he didn't see a reason NOT to.

Yeah, that's probably at least part of it.

I must say, I do fully advocate the idea of Piccolo and Kami being different actors. After all, in Japanese, although Piccolo Daimao and Kami were the same actor, Piccolo Jr. was a different guy, so it would actually be more true to the original version for Piccolo and Kami to be different actors.

Perhaps I'd be a little softer on Sabat's Piccolo if they'd got a different actor for Daimao, compared to Junior.

I mean, I see your point, but it's not like it really makes a difference. Sabat was the dub director & he was already voicing Yamcha & some others already, so it made sense & there's really no problem with it other than people maybe not liking it, which is up to personal preference.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Hell, he wanted Scott McNeil to be piccolo again, but the timing wasn't apparently right for him to fly down.

That's been said a few times on these forums but I haven't heard Sabat ever confirm or deny it so I'd take it with a grain of salt.

[MistaL]

For DB, I believe AB Groupe had Blue Water use translated French scripts to save money.

The UK/Canadian dub of DB is a strange case indeed. For the later half of the series they do seem to be using a completely different script to Funi (probably the French version, which was far more accurate. Examples include actually explaining that Piccolo was a Demon Clansman, how the souls of his victims can't pass on etc. and Goku actually proposing to ChiChi "properly", "Why not get married?" versus Funimation's horrible take), with only a few lines sounding (probably coincidentally) identical.

However, for about the first half of the series, the script is very, very similar to Funimation's, except for a few inaccurate lines that are, shockingly, "fixed" to be closer to the original Japanese. I have no idea how this even came to be, but I'm pretty sure about this, I used to spend waay too much time watching the Funi dub with Japanese subs alongside the Blue Water version.

One example I have in mind is when Bulma first meets Goku. First of all he actually introduces himself as Son Goku (!?), and then there's this scene where Bulma first sees Goku's tail. In both Funimation dubs (Ocean and in-house), in a classic example of a stupid Funimation line, Bulma simply remarks "what a weirdo!" to herself at the sight, while in the Japanese version she thinks about how he looks like a goof running around with a fake tail. This is the only time Bulma makes a comment like this, and it's really essential dialogue that sets up the pay off that Goku's tail *isn't* fake, and without it viewers might just assume that having tails is pretty normal in this world. Much to my surprise, in the BW dub Bulma says something to the extent of "don't worry Bulma, there's no way that thing can be real!" to herself when Goku's waving his tail around. I don't think things like this could just be coincidentally more accurate, someone must have been skimming through the script and comparing it to another translation.

This isn't the only example, a few other things here and there are altered, including minor things like attack names (the Tri-Beam (urg) becomes the "Spirit Cannon") and the "Power Pole" being called the Nyoi-bo. from episode 1.
I'm of the strong opinion that the Blue Water dub is far better than the Funimation version, the dialogue is way more accurate and the acting is hardly much worse. I highly recommend people checking it out if they like their Dragon Ball in English.

Did you even watch the Blue Water dub or are you just making things up? In the BW dub, Bulma says "There's no way that can be real" when she sees Gokuu's tail.

[8000 Saiyan]

Never liked Sabat in the role of either Vegeta or Piccolo until Kai. His improvements and consistency throughout are superb. Schemmel made great strides too, but am I alone in thinking he slowly reverted back to his original voice in later arcs? It's not 100% but still.

I won't dispute the Funi cast's talents after Kai. What I will say, is that I don't think of them as the definitive English cast. In fact I am still just not used to them, especially during earlier arcs.

They were amateurs when they started and have only improved. The Ocean cast were professionals from the start and have only become more seasoned. Hence the excitement from anyone who can't wait to hear this dub.

I never thought of them as the definitive English cast either, they're just another English cast.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Regardless of anyone's preferences the Funimation cast are the definitive English cast as far as officially licensed media goes. Yes the Ocean cast are official English performers for the characters but their dub is not the main product that is used to promote the series most widely, Funimation's dub is, and as such it is definitely more than just another dub cast.

Personally though? In an ideal world my definitive English cast would be a mix of Funi and Ocean with some from Bang Zoom too.

[TheGreatness25]

Regardless of anyone's preferences the Funimation cast are the definitive English cast as far as officially licensed media goes. Yes the Ocean cast are official English performers for the characters but their dub is not the main product that is used to promote the series most widely, Funimation's dub is, and as such it is definitely more than just another dub cast.

Personally though? In an ideal world my definitive English cast would be a mix of Funi and Ocean with some from Bang Zoom too.

Agreed. Funimation pretty much cornered that market when they provided the official English dubs for the video games and all of their DVD/Blu-ray releases were freely-available to any English-speaking country. While the U.S. (as opposed to the U.K. and Canada) aired the actual Funimation Z and Kai dubs, the majority of the releases had no television backing (DBZ has been off of TV as far as I know the entire the time orange bricks, Dragon Boxes, etc. were being released). Thus, the U.K. and Canada -- as far as I know -- had just as much access to the Funimation dub as the U.S.

The only thing that's strange is that the U.K. and Canada did have the Ocean dub of the Z series (as well as Blue Water dubs of DB and GT). However, that does not make them the definitive versions. A heavily-adapted Sailor Moon aired on TV for years in the U.S. (can't speak for anywhere else), but the release that they have has been re-dubbed. I look at Funimation's version of the Z series to be kind of like that in some respect -- where it's not the version you grew up with, but that's the official one that is receiving backing.

With that said... I love the Ocean dub and really wish it would be released. But as time passes, it's seeming more and more hopeless. I mean think about it: Kai was released in 2009. Funimation got the rights to do Kai in 2010. I mean that's nearly eight years ago. Eight years is a long time. At this point, I think that if it hasn't happened, nothing leads me to believe that suddenly it will. If Kai has a release with the U.K. region code, then that makes me even more skeptical as the U.K. and Canada have access to the Funimation version.

I really wish it would be released, but... hope is dwindling. I'll just go back to watching the Westwood dub for that piece of nostalgia.

Is it the definitive version? Nope. Is it spectacular? Heck no. Is it faithful? Meh, no. But is it fun for me? Um, yah.

♪Dragon, Dragon Ball -- Dragon Ball Zeeee! Dragon, Dragon Ball -- Zeeee!!♪

[ButtfaceKalinski]

although he isn't on good terms with Corlett, Kelamis and Morrow.

Uh, are you sure? I can't even imagine how that would happen.

I believe that at one point, he blocked Peter Kelamis on Twitter for no reason, scolded Kirby Morrow for saying that he was the "voice of Goku" at a convention and he also got frustrated at a panel after bringing up the idea of Ian Corlett coming back to play Black Goku.

Thanks for the information, that's pretty weird. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because it's stuff I'm hearing second hand out of context, but the twitter thing is bizarre.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Agreed. Funimation pretty much cornered that market when they provided the official English dubs for the video games and all of their DVD/Blu-ray releases were freely-available to any English-speaking country.

And that's not even limited just to English-speaking countries. On the subject of video games, it may be worth noting that a lot--not all--but a lot of the video games that have been released in non-English-speaking countries have FUNimation's English dub (and the ones that don't just come with the original Japanese audio only). Apart from whatever company provided the dub for Dragon Ball GT: Final Bout, FUNimation is the only company to ever dub Dragon Ball video games. There's no German, Mexican, French, Portuguese, or any other foreign-language dubs available for the video games other than the English ones FUNimation provides.

People don't have to like the FUNimation dub cast the most, but I think it is fair to say that they are the definitive English dub cast in terms of licensed media. I would even go so far as to say that, other than the original Japanese version, I think the FUNimation English dub is the version that has probably gotten the most exposure globally.

[8000 Saiyan]

Agreed. Funimation pretty much cornered that market when they provided the official English dubs for the video games and all of their DVD/Blu-ray releases were freely-available to any English-speaking country.

And that's not even limited just to English-speaking countries. On the subject of video games, it may be worth noting that a lot--not all--but a lot of the video games that have been released in non-English-speaking countries have FUNimation's English dub (and the ones that don't just come with the original Japanese audio only). Apart from whatever company provided the dub for Dragon Ball GT: Final Bout, FUNimation is the only company to ever dub Dragon Ball video games. There's no German, Mexican, French, Portuguese, or any other foreign-language dubs available for the video games other than the English ones FUNimation provides.

People don't have to like the FUNimation dub cast the most, but I think it is fair to say that they are the definitive English dub cast in terms of licensed media. I would even go so far as to say that, other than the original Japanese version, I think the FUNimation English dub is the version that has probably gotten the most exposure globally.

Not as much as the Japanese version, though.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Agreed. Funimation pretty much cornered that market when they provided the official English dubs for the video games and all of their DVD/Blu-ray releases were freely-available to any English-speaking country.

And that's not even limited just to English-speaking countries. On the subject of video games, it may be worth noting that a lot--not all--but a lot of the video games that have been released in non-English-speaking countries have FUNimation's English dub (and the ones that don't just come with the original Japanese audio only). Apart from whatever company provided the dub for Dragon Ball GT: Final Bout, FUNimation is the only company to ever dub Dragon Ball video games. There's no German, Mexican, French, Portuguese, or any other foreign-language dubs available for the video games other than the English ones FUNimation provides.

People don't have to like the FUNimation dub cast the most, but I think it is fair to say that they are the definitive English dub cast in terms of licensed media. I would even go so far as to say that, other than the original Japanese version, I think the FUNimation English dub is the version that has probably gotten the most exposure globally.

Not as much as the Japanese version, though.

Overall yes, but as described, in terms of English dubs there is no question that the Funimation cast are the definitive cast that is used to sell the show, and it's been that way since 1999.

[Robo4900]

I don't think which one is "Definitive" overall really matters.

All that really matters is which versions are important to you. And with so many versions to choose from, I don't think arguing over which one is the best or most definitive one has any point. It's much more interesting and fulfilling to talk about what you like/dislike about each dub, and how they compare, not necessarily in overall quality since everyone will have their own biases on that, and it's entirely subjective, but in which parts you believe certain dubs did better than, worse than, or simply different to each-other.

[Scsigs]

Hell, he wanted Scott McNeil to be Piccolo again, but the timing wasn't apparently right for him to fly down.

That's been said a few times on these forums but I haven't heard Sabat ever confirm or deny it so I'd take it with a grain of salt.

True. If he didn't say it, I wonder where it came from. Perhaps it's a rumor that stemmed from the fact that he gave up a lot of his roles in Kai to other actors due to FUNimation's wider talent pool & money that didn't exist during Z's dub. I mean, he kept the 3 that actually mattered; Vegeta, Piccolo, & Yamcha, in addition to Kami, Recoome, Shenron, & Porunga, plus Vegeta's father. Though he still voices a lot of them in the games. While he DID most likely wanna lighten his load, I don't think he wanted to do it THAT much, especially with a Canadian actor who'd need more money than the company probably could supply. I mean, it's not like flying Schemmel out from California for the last few movies. Scott has only worked for them on one dub project since the 90s & that's the 20th One Piece movie & the episodes Shiki appeared in for the series. And even then, it was probably a one time thing that they were willing to do. I don't know if Scott flew down to dub the episodes AFTER the movie, or if he dubbed them during the movie's dubbing, or if he did it over Skype from Canada, but it's pretty much understood that they rarely cast Canadians anymore in their dubs.

[Scsigs]

Just to correct one of my past posts, Lani doesn't play Kami in DBZA. I thought he did for a second, but he doesn't. Some dude named Remix does.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I mean think about it: Kai was released in 2009. Funimation got the rights to do Kai in 2010. I mean that's nearly eight years ago. Eight years is a long time. At this point, I think that if it hasn't happened, nothing leads me to believe that suddenly it will. If Kai has a release with the U.K. region code, then that makes me even more skeptical as the U.K. and Canada have access to the Funimation version.

Hopefully Marni will be able to find out if this dub is attainable or not. If not then we tried and she tried, and we may just need to accept that, like Kirbopher said the time has passed (which I am hoping is not the case).

The Funimation dub has always been available on home video in Canada even when the westwood and blue water dubs aired there and the orange bricks also have the UK region code so overall not much has changed. Having said that I definitely think Ocean Kai has a better chance of airing in Canada than the UK, especially while to this day no dub of Kai has ever been broadcast there.

[90sDBZ]

About the Blue Water dubs being more accurate, I don't think that's entirely true, especially if we're comparing them to Funimation Kai. Blue Water GT in particular had some bizarre lines like;
-Goku saying "The earth... the place where I was born", during the battle with Baby before he goes Oozaru.
-Goku saying to Li Shenron before trying to blow himself up "This is the move that defeated Majin Buu."
-Vegeta saying to Goten and Trunks that "Gohan isn't the one neglecting his training" on episode 2 when he tries to force them to go to space.
-Mr Satan/Hercule saying to the people of earth "I saved you from Cell, Majin Buu, and don't forget Baby!" when the people of earth shouldn't remember the evil Buu and should only know Satan's friend Mr Buu.
-The final episode with the flashback sequence that shows the time Goku returned to earth for the 28th Tournament and appears before his friends and says "Haha see ya!", which makes zero sense because he's reuniting with them and not leaving them.

And it makes some random name changes of its own such as;
-Changing between "Solar Flare" and "Light of the sun!" within the same dub.
-Changing from the accurate "Final Shine" at first to some other name I can't remember in a later episode.
-General Rildo being changed to General Lock
-Hell being Hadies even though the previous Ocean dubs used HFIL.

I get that the dub is pretty accurate a lot of the time, but to praise it while criticising Funimation's Kai dub for minor changes isn't exactly fair.

[8000 Saiyan]

My Dragon Ball opinions are pretty controversial in general, so I'm used to it. I mean, liking GT and universally preferring the Ocean cast over Funimation is enough to get my crucified by most US fans...
Honestly, I don't really care anyway. They're just opinions; if you want to hate me for some entirely subjective opinions I have about some silly '90s cartoon I enjoy, then I don't think I'm the one with the problem.

Of course you're not the one with the problem. People can be jerks when it comes to opinions of others. It reminds me of Spectacular Spider-Man fans who think someone who thinks Spider-Man TAS is better is an idiot deluded by nostalgia.

I have to agree with you that Sabat's Piccolo was pretty bad. One of my problems with his Piccolo is that he didn't came across as wise and intelligent as McNeil's. I know that some people criticize McNeil's Piccolo for being demonic, but given that Piccolo was once a demon, the voice fits pretty well. Nowadays, Sabat's decent in the role I guess.