Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by SX10 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:35 am

I kinda sometimes wonder, if SubZero Ice is just putthere, lurking on these boards now.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by Arian » Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:23 pm

SX10 wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:35 am
I kinda sometimes wonder, if SubZero Ice is just putthere, lurking on these boards now.
I really hope not. Confession time, but I really don't care for that individual.

Do I think he's lying about who he is? No, quite the opposite. But I resent the fact that he gave us so little to work with (presumably to hang onto his job), but said enough to stir shit up, make the secret that Ocean, Toei, and FUNimation tried hard to keep under wraps until something had already materialized blown wide open, and probably lead to a lot of inquiries from fans towards both the voice actors as well as Ocean executives, both of whom were allowed to say precisely nil.

Now, it'd be one thing if SubZero Ice actually worked towards getting Ocean Kai on TV, made things progress, while keeping us informed. But all we were really left with at the end of the day was a lot of useless, albeit interesting trivia that just makes us ponder and get frankly bummed out about what could have been.

Granted, it was cute at first, maybe in the first few months, but just based on the fact that this has all potentially snowballed into a giant pile of NOTHING, I wish he hadn't opened his mouth in the first place. All he essentially did was get us riled up, but didn't provide enough information or power to actually do or say anything meaningful. Plus, he didn't even stay, so essentially he just threw a lit bag of garbage into a dumpster, watched it turn into a dumpster fire, and bounced.

Talking to you specifically, SX10, I do believe you've done much more to actually uplift the curtain shrouding this dub than he ever did, and I don't just say that because we're friends. Same goes for people such as Dragon Ball Ireland, Super Saiyan Prime, TheBlackPaladin, Robo4900, and myself, just to name a few.

And yes, I have enjoyed my time on this thread, but if it's all going to be for not, I don't know then.

Kirbopher wasn't a big help either, even though he always acted like he was. Again, with cryptic vagaries with some inaccurate pessimism on top, and I don't just say that because of things that have recently come to light about him.
Was the hate for Kai largely unjustified?
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:It's an edited, cynically produced, cheap recut with a poorly utilized ancient score and awful scene recreations that later got traded in for a weird green tint.

The story of Kai's production is far more interesting than the actual product.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:06 pm

Arian wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:23 pm
SX10 wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:35 am
I kinda sometimes wonder, if SubZero Ice is just putthere, lurking on these boards now.
I really hope not. Confession time, but I really don't care for that individual.

Do I think he's lying about who he is? No, quite the opposite. But I resent the fact that he gave us so little to work with (presumably to hang onto his job), but said enough to stir shit up, make the secret that Ocean, Toei, and FUNimation tried hard to keep under wraps until something had already materialized blown wide open, and probably lead to a lot of inquiries from fans towards both the voice actors as well as Ocean executives, both of whom were allowed to say precisely nil.

Now, it'd be one thing if SubZero Ice actually worked towards getting Ocean Kai on TV, made things progress, while keeping us informed. But all we were really left with at the end of the day was a lot of useless, albeit interesting trivia that just makes us ponder and get frankly bummed out about what could have been.

Granted, it was cute at first, maybe in the first few months, but just based on the fact that this has all potentially snowballed into a giant pile of NOTHING, I wish he hadn't opened his mouth in the first place. All he essentially did was get us riled up, but didn't provide enough information or power to actually do or say anything meaningful. Plus, he didn't even stay, so essentially he just threw a lit bag of garbage into a dumpster, watched it turn into a dumpster fire, and bounced.

Talking to you specifically, SX10, I do believe you've done much more to actually uplift the curtain shrouding this dub than he ever did, and I don't just say that because we're friends. Same goes for people such as Dragon Ball Ireland, Super Saiyan Prime, TheBlackPaladin, Robo4900, and myself, just to name a few.

And yes, I have enjoyed my time on this thread, but if it's all going to be for not, I don't know then.

Kirbopher wasn't a big help either, even though he always acted like he was. Again, with cryptic vagaries with some inaccurate pessimism on top, and I don't just say that because of things that have recently come to light about him.
Trust me, I completely understand your sentiments and don't blame you in the slightest for having them. It's a totally valid and logical reaction.That said, I respectfully disagree with it.

Like I said, I totally understand thinking less of somebody who provided info that ultimately led to nothing, but show biz is a notoriously protective and secretive one. For that matter, not only is it incredibly protective and secretive, but it's also notoriously unforgiving of the people in it who do not honor the secrecy. Every once in a while all a leaker will get is a slap on the wrist, but the worst-case scenario is that it could be a lawsuit. There are plenty of other bad scenarios that come close to, but don't quite reach, that point as well (permanently losing that client, never being hired by a particular studio again, losing one's agency representation, being labeled as "impossible to work with" and thus resulting in other studios not hiring that person)...the list goes on and on. Like, to this day, I'm amazed that Scott McNeil got in as little trouble as he did after not only revealing his involvement with Kai, but also prefacing said revelation with the phrase, "Screw the NDA." I personally don't think less of him, but it is beyond easy for me to imagine other studios not taking that comment well.

So while I get that Subzero Ice's anonymity can be frustrating, I completely get why he chose to be anonymous. I for one am grateful for what he told us, because he revealed stuff that we would not have known otherwise. Even though this dub didn't get on the air, it almost seemed like it would on a number of occasions, and the info he provided helped keep both the passion alive and equip us with talking points to help it get on the air.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by NitroEX » Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:31 am

Subzero Ice saying what he said didn't change anything. Kirby Morrow and Paul Dobson both independently revealed info about it that same year on the Voice Print podcast. Fans would have still discussed this dub back then even if he didn't post anything.

The only misleading and controversial part was to do with it airing on Kix, which at the time seemed to like a certainty given the timing, history of broadcast dubs in the UK and Kirby's comment on It being for both Europe and Canada, we were all excited. Supposedly Toei didn't want that despite Kix somehow also being aware of it. I wish he could have elaborated a little more on that part but given how things have played out it wouldn't have made any difference.

At the end of the day, I think we have multiple targets who can probably share blame for this Ocean Kai situation but Subzero Ice (or any of the actors) definitely isn't one of them, that's shooting the messenger. I think Canadian TV majorly dropped the ball on this from the beginning as they seem to have turned it down and not course-corrected at any point, but Toei has also likely handled this carelessly themselves, especially if they blocked it in the UK. And who knows if there was some sort of toy deal with Bandai (or whoever else) that fell through and negated the need for a planned broadcast dub. If that was the case I'd be astounded that Ocean didn't get the memo and halt production but, that again would fall on Toei and their partners for miscommunication.

Honestly, DBKai as a brand was just cursed from top to bottom and it's a shame Funimation were the only ones to really benefit from it given how conceited some of their cast members have become. Ocean had a chance to vindicate themselves after all the undeserved crap that was thrown at them for the Saban and Westwood dubs but sadly due to all the bureaucracy it never came to be.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:24 am

NitroEX wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:31 am
The only misleading and controversial part was to do with it airing on Kix, which at the time seemed to like a certainty given the timing, history of broadcast dubs in the UK and Kirby's comment on It being for both Europe and Canada, we were all excited. Supposedly Toei didn't want that despite Kix somehow also being aware of it. I wish he could have elaborated a little more on that part but given how things have played out it wouldn't have made any difference.
Still think Kix in 2012 was the biggest missed opportunity for this dub. I sincerely doubt the majority of sales for the the UK orange bricks came from kids that watched the series on Kix and would have preferred the voice consistency. Most likely they were purchased by fans that couldn't afford to import the original US versions, or who were too young to catch the UK broadcasts and were familiar with Funimation's cast from the video games. Manga UK's deal to sell singles for the kids market through Sainsburys also fell through, which made having the same voices on TV even more redundant.

If Kix aired Ocean Kai, they would have still had a similar level of success as they had with the Funimation dub, which would have led to Ocean dubbing TFC, and possibly Super for the countries that got the Bang Zoom dub, as TOEI seemed to only give Super to companies that either finished dubbing Kai or never dubbed it to begin with.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:41 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:24 am
If Kix aired Ocean Kai, they would have still had a similar level of success as they had with the Funimation dub, which would have led to Ocean dubbing TFC, and possibly Super for the countries that got the Bang Zoom dub, as TOEI seemed to only give Super to companies that either finished dubbing Kai or never dubbed it to begin with.
It's weird how Kix never got round to airing TFC, as they were still showing reruns of Kai 1.0 until late 2015. Supposedly Funi's TFC dub had been done for a while before it eventually aired on Toonami US in 2017, and we know an edited version exists. Maybe there was a deal in place that it had to air on Toonami US before anywhere else?

With Super airing on Kix's sister channel Pop, kids who watched Kai a few years back will have missed out on the Buu saga completely.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by Arian » Thu Sep 09, 2021 12:08 pm

I read all of these rebuttals (as I eagerly awaited them, haha), and I agree with all of them to an extent, they are good points, but Nitro's response is the only one I feel I need to respond to.
NitroEX wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:31 am
Subzero Ice saying what he said didn't change anything. Kirby Morrow and Paul Dobson both independently revealed info about it that same year on the Voice Print podcast. Fans would have still discussed this dub back then even if he didn't post anything.
I'm not aware of what Paul Dobson did, but Kirby Morrow's announcement followed the speculation that started on Facebook thanks to SubZero Ice mentioning it and Sean Schemmel reaffirming his claims. So Kirby might have not said anything had that not happened. In fact, I believe I recall him in fact saying something akin to "people are talking about it." So I'm not sure voice actors would walk a slippery slope for absolutely no reason.

You're probably correct about Kix, but I don't know enough about the inner workings of it to offer an opinion.

As for what you're saying about FUNimation's involvement as well as Canadian broadcasters' lack of involvement, I'm totally with you on that. Both parties really sabotaged this, even with Toei and Ocean wanting this to happen.

Screw it, one more.

@TheBlackPaladin, regarding SubZero Ice keeping us informed kept our passion for this dub alive. Yes, I do agree with that, having hope and optimism is generally a good thing and an even greater feeling, but once the high wears off, you're jonesing for more, more isn't there, and you start to hate yourself. Very similar to actual hang-ups, actually.
Was the hate for Kai largely unjustified?
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:It's an edited, cynically produced, cheap recut with a poorly utilized ancient score and awful scene recreations that later got traded in for a weird green tint.

The story of Kai's production is far more interesting than the actual product.
Danfun64 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:40 pm
Screw Corus and it's monopoly. It should sell off the Nick, Disney, and CN assets at minimum.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 11; Still Unreleased

Post by NitroEX » Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:51 pm

I'm not aware of what Paul Dobson did, but Kirby Morrow's announcement followed the speculation that started on Facebook thanks to SubZero Ice mentioning it and Sean Schemmel reaffirming his claims. So Kirby might have not said anything had that not happened. In fact, I believe I recall him in fact saying something akin to "people are talking about it." So I'm not sure voice actors would walk a slippery slope for absolutely no reason.
Relistening to what Kirby said, he was talking about the Funimation version. He mentioned that the actors were talking about it at the conventions which made sense for the Texas cast as they made the announcement earlier that year. When he said it's known and on the internet, he was definitely referring to the Texas version and the discussion surrounding that, not the Canadian production.

He also said that he didn't have to sign an NDA for it which could explain why he and other actors were initially open to talking about it, although things seemed to get stricter later on. Either that or Kirby misunderstood. Kirby's other possible motivation for opening up about It also seemed to have been to address the Goku recasting, he even jokingly mentioned sending fan letters about it to Ocean.
The point is I don't think he was plugged into DB forums and paying close attention to comments from specific users.

Paul Dobson was more tight-lipped about it but basically repeated that Ocean was doing it and that some characters were recast while others were not. He didn't go into detail beyond that.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by KingVegetto » Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:27 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:21 am
Hellspawn28 wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:20 am
That voice sounds nothing like Freeza at all :sick: .
Or even a good performance. If that’s the indicator of what Tokar was going to sound like I’d rather have Pauline Newstone reprise the role. Horribly miscast and not suited for Freeza but a good “Saturday Morning Cartoon evil alien villain”’ voice.
Just listened to it now and no offense to Tockar, but holy crap that sounded nothing like Freeza :shock: . I'm someone who's fine with Linda Young and even I cringed when I heard that. Honestly that sounds more like a Youtuber doing a parody of Freeza then anything. If this is any indication of the quality of the voice-acting in the rest of the dub, i'm starting to see why it isn't been picked up for over a decade, cause multiple episodes of having to listen to that voice would've driven me nuts!

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:01 pm

KingVegetto wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:27 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:21 am
Hellspawn28 wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:20 am
That voice sounds nothing like Freeza at all :sick: .
Or even a good performance. If that’s the indicator of what Tokar was going to sound like I’d rather have Pauline Newstone reprise the role. Horribly miscast and not suited for Freeza but a good “Saturday Morning Cartoon evil alien villain”’ voice.
Just listened to it now and no offense to Tockar, but holy crap that sounded nothing like Freeza :shock: . I'm someone who's fine with Linda Young and even I cringed when I heard that. Honestly that sounds more like a Youtuber doing a parody of Freeza then anything. If this is any indication of the quality of the voice-acting in the rest of the dub, i'm starting to see why it isn't been picked up for over a decade, cause multiple episodes of having to listen to that voice would've driven me nuts!
I don't think we can really judge Lee Tockar's performance as a whole based on that clip. Let's not forget when the first episode of Funimation's dub of Kai with Freeza aired (not including the first episode prologue where Linda Young played him) Chris Ayres only had a single line of dialogue, and the reaction wasn't too great. Now Ayres is widely regarded as not only the best of all the actors who played Freeza in English, but one of the best performances in an English Dragon Ball dub period. I think when we see Tockar's lines in context the performance itself will make more sense.
Selling
- Arrival DVD single
- Betrayal DVD single

Looking For
- Showdown DVD single
- any of the Bridge Ent DVDs containing the Big Green dubs

If interested PM with offers

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

Post by KingVegetto » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:03 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:01 pm
KingVegetto wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:27 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:21 am


Or even a good performance. If that’s the indicator of what Tokar was going to sound like I’d rather have Pauline Newstone reprise the role. Horribly miscast and not suited for Freeza but a good “Saturday Morning Cartoon evil alien villain”’ voice.
Just listened to it now and no offense to Tockar, but holy crap that sounded nothing like Freeza :shock: . I'm someone who's fine with Linda Young and even I cringed when I heard that. Honestly that sounds more like a Youtuber doing a parody of Freeza then anything. If this is any indication of the quality of the voice-acting in the rest of the dub, i'm starting to see why it isn't been picked up for over a decade, cause multiple episodes of having to listen to that voice would've driven me nuts!
I don't think we can really judge Lee Tockar's performance as a whole based on that clip. Let's not forget when the first episode of Funimation's dub of Kai with Freeza aired (not including the first episode prologue where Linda Young played him) Chris Ayres only had a single line of dialogue, and the reaction wasn't too great. Now Ayres is widely regarded as not only the best of all the actors who played Freeza in English, but one of the best performances in an English Dragon Ball dub period. I think when we see Tockar's lines in context the performance itself will make more sense.
True he might sound better at some points.

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