Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Gonstead » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:42 pm

Attitudefan wrote:Not really a prince, he sounds more like a... I don't even know man.

Schemmel is the one I can't really stand as much. His voice is just so gravely and low. Every time I listen to the original then the English, it just does not sound RIGHT!
IMO I think he does good as Goku in Kai.

King Kai? Good god what the hell happened?

Nail? Vast improvement and no longer sounds like his Goku.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by dbboxkaifan » Tue May 01, 2012 8:29 am

FNF wrote:I swear you must be a little hard of hearing. Sabat's Vegeta in Kai sounds nothing like a thug. He sounds like an arrogant prince.

I don't need to provide videos. The proof is all there in DBZKai.
So he's an arrogant prince? Let me check.. Nope, he sounds like an arrogant old man. *British Freeza laughs at Sabat's Vegeta*
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by samuraix123 » Tue May 01, 2012 11:02 am

FNF wrote:
dbboxkaifan wrote:
FNF wrote:I don't think people got the memo that the Ocean dub's delivery was awful...

Oh and Vegeta's not meant to sound like a drugged up, street thug.
A street raspy thug is how Sabat's Vejeta sounds like. You haven't really brought up any useful information or videos, so let's stop here.
I swear you must be a little hard of hearing. Sabat's Vegeta in Kai sounds nothing like a thug. He sounds like an arrogant prince.

I don't need to provide videos. The proof is all there in DBZKai.
I like the fact that he sounds like an arrogant prince. I mean after all he is the prince of all saiyans, so he might be a little stuck up kinda.

But I do like the voice actor who played Vegeta in the ocean dub as well
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by dbboxkaifan » Tue May 01, 2012 11:35 am

I don't know how you guys keep giving Chris R. Sabat so much credit, he did improve from an amateur (Z dub) to a better voice actor, but in Kai his Vegeta sounded like a cartoony arrongant 60 yr old man.

Vegeta's age is 30-35 so Sabat's raspy voice doesn't fit him, not for a Prince or Saiyan.

FUNimation once again miscasts VAs, incosistent attack/names and still its fanboys claim the Kai dub to be excellent, sure it's better than the old dub, but not excellent or perfect. Just really good in comparison.

Listen to the Brazilian and Latin Spanish dubs of Dragon Ball Z/Kai, these two are the best DBZ/Kai dubs available.

Regardless of the audio issues on the BR Kai dub, it's still far better than the English Kai dub. Not only they dubbed the OPs and EDs, but also kept the original character names, attacks and whatnot.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Tue May 01, 2012 11:39 am

dbboxkaifan wrote:Vegeta's age is 30-35 so Sabat's raspy voice doesn't fit him, not for a Prince or Saiyan.
Would it be so absurd to claim that his voice sounds 30-35 to me, and not like an old man? How "old" a voice sounds is highly subjective...same thing with what sounds like a "prince" and what doesn't. And Saiyans? I don't believe there's anything to suggest that they necessarily have to sound a certain way.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by dbboxkaifan » Tue May 01, 2012 12:39 pm

The original Vegeta VA does a much better job than Sabat and so does Brian Drummond, really, Sabat's that great.

Enough of Sabat, I've found myself hearing Kai Gohan in One Piece, which is kind of cool (Colleen's Luffy).
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Attitudefan » Tue May 01, 2012 5:41 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote:
dbboxkaifan wrote:Vegeta's age is 30-35 so Sabat's raspy voice doesn't fit him, not for a Prince or Saiyan.
Would it be so absurd to claim that his voice sounds 30-35 to me, and not like an old man? How "old" a voice sounds is highly subjective...same thing with what sounds like a "prince" and what doesn't. And Saiyans? I don't believe there's anything to suggest that they necessarily have to sound a certain way.
Well he does have a point. However, Vegeta is 25 and not 35 when we first meet him; it's not what most would expect a 25-35 year old man would sound like. It's too raspy and deep. It's more fitting for an older male character. If he did a higher pitch, he would be more fitting.

TBP, you're into voice acting, I am taking some courses on it, so what are the proper rules then for a young male adult? It can be deep but has to sound more youthful. I think that rasp ruins the youthfulness of Vegeta. Sure, it fits Vegeta in the Buu saga.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by OzzyApu » Tue May 01, 2012 5:46 pm

Attitudefan wrote:However, Vegeta is 25 and not 35 when we first meet him;
He's 28 or 29, if you're going to count when he appeared immediately after Raditz's death.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Lord Eeyore Haw-Haw » Tue May 01, 2012 6:04 pm

Hades wrote:
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Hades wrote:You have no idea how much i hate that suffix being applied to any scandal.
Does it bother you even more when it's applied to non-scandals such as "climategate"? :P
It's just something about the mass media that i loathe intensely.
Okay, off-topic, but I wanna just give you a "Right on, man!" I can't stand "-gate" being added onto every scandal either. It was cute and appropriate with "Winegate", or "Whitewatergate", but then it just got stupid.

On topic... Well, I'm actually interested in seeing an Ocean cast dub of Kai, because I like the Ocean actors. And I'm one of the few people who actually likes seeing multiple takes on the same thing, as opposed to "Well, I've got the one version, and that's all there ever needs to be".

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Attitudefan » Tue May 01, 2012 6:28 pm

OzzyApu wrote:
Attitudefan wrote:However, Vegeta is 25 and not 35 when we first meet him;
He's 28 or 29, if you're going to count when he appeared immediately after Raditz's death.
Okay. So 30 then. I listened to Kai again and it's fine. I was only really thinking of what he sounds like in the Remastered. It's way too low and raspy in that but that's irrelevant to Kai.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by penguintruth » Tue May 01, 2012 8:26 pm

What I liked about Brian Drummond's Vegeta is how cocky he sounded, how full of himself. The way he delivered his lines, each one deliberate, pointed. But he does suffer from "villain voice" sometimes, where it just sounds like he has no personality beyond his character type. Sabat added a few layers over time with his Vegeta, especially with Kai. So right now, I'm not exactly sure who I prefer in terms of English. And who's to say that Drummond wouldn't also have improved over time?
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Tue May 01, 2012 8:38 pm

Attitudefan wrote:
TheBlackPaladin wrote:
dbboxkaifan wrote:Vegeta's age is 30-35 so Sabat's raspy voice doesn't fit him, not for a Prince or Saiyan.
Would it be so absurd to claim that his voice sounds 30-35 to me, and not like an old man? How "old" a voice sounds is highly subjective...same thing with what sounds like a "prince" and what doesn't. And Saiyans? I don't believe there's anything to suggest that they necessarily have to sound a certain way.
Well he does have a point. However, Vegeta is 25 and not 35 when we first meet him; it's not what most would expect a 25-35 year old man would sound like. It's too raspy and deep. It's more fitting for an older male character. If he did a higher pitch, he would be more fitting.

TBP, you're into voice acting, I am taking some courses on it, so what are the proper rules then for a young male adult? It can be deep but has to sound more youthful. I think that rasp ruins the youthfulness of Vegeta. Sure, it fits Vegeta in the Buu saga.
Really, Attitudefan? That's cool! First and foremost, have fun with it--in the case of animation voice acting, creativity is always born from having fun!

As far as rules...well, there are no rules, really. In both anime and pre-lay cartoons, you're given a picture of the character and a description...and then it's up to you to make a voice that you think could come out of that character. So again, pretty subjective. However, this is particularly tricky for anime because the performance has already been done by a voice actor in Japan, leading to preconceived notions of what fits the character and what doesn't. For that reason, many people tend to judge whether or not an English anime dub voice "fits" on the similarity of their voice to the original Japanese actor. From my end, I've never seen anybody saying that an English voice actor's voice for a cartoon of English origin "doesn't fit." That complaint has almost always been reserved for anime performances, it would seem.

It's for that reason that I'm very sympathetic towards English anime voice actors...unlike pre-lay cartoon characters where the audience doesn't come in with expectations, audiences for anime do come in with expectations based on a previously-existing performance, and because of the added constraint of needing to fit the lip flaps, the work is much harder. On top of that, purely by way of industry standards, anime dubbing work doesn't pay as well as pre-lay work. So English anime dub actors are essentially presenting tougher work to a more critical audience for half the pay.

Okay, so I'm biased because I'm a voice actor myself, but that's not to say there aren't performances in both pre-lay and anime that I'm not fond of. Thing is, given my profession, I think it would be kinda rude of me to publicly state on the internet which performances I didn't like.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by matt0044 » Tue May 01, 2012 9:09 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote:As far as rules...well, there are no rules, really. In both anime and pre-lay cartoons, you're given a picture of the character and a description...and then it's up to you to make a voice that you think could come out of that character. So again, pretty subjective. However, this is particularly tricky for anime because the performance has already been done by a voice actor in Japan, leading to preconceived notions of what fits the character and what doesn't. For that reason, many people tend to judge whether or not an English anime dub voice "fits" on the similarity of their voice to the original Japanese actor. From my end, I've never seen anybody saying that an English voice actor's voice for a cartoon of English origin "doesn't fit." That complaint has almost always been reserved for anime performances, it would seem.

It's for that reason that I'm very sympathetic towards English anime voice actors...unlike pre-lay cartoon characters where the audience doesn't come in with expectations, audiences for anime do come in with expectations based on a previously-existing performance, and because of the added constraint of needing to fit the lip flaps, the work is much harder. On top of that, purely by way of industry standards, anime dubbing work doesn't pay as well as pre-lay work. So English anime dub actors are essentially presenting tougher work to a more critical audience for half the pay.

Okay, so I'm biased because I'm a voice actor myself, but that's not to say there aren't performances in both pre-lay and anime that I'm not fond of. Thing is, given my profession, I think it would be kinda rude of me to publicly state on the internet which performances I didn't like.
If you ask me, some voices from the JPN version are best for ONLY the Japanese version. Like Masako Nozawa. I like her as Goku's JPN VA but her voice I CANNOT imagine her voice for him in English (perfect English, that is). For the English dub, Nadolny goes well with Kid Goku (though Clinkenbeard do very well in DB Movie 1) and Sean's the man for adult Goku (Kai especially).

Dubs can have voices that differ from the characters' original JPN voice so long as said dub voices are capable of suiting the characters speaking English on their own. I mean, there are Japanese accents and dialects that US (or Canadian) VAs can't exactly emulate so I don't mind if the English Voices sounds different for the character so long as I'm able to connect said voice to the character with or without seeing the JPN Voices prior. Maybe not right off the back but like with people, you have to get to know them. Give them time to actually sink in and not reject them close-mindedly after, what, one episode. It's not like you're risking your life.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Attitudefan » Tue May 01, 2012 10:59 pm

As far as rules...well, there are no rules, really. In both anime and pre-lay cartoons, you're given a picture of the character and a description...and then it's up to you to make a voice that you think could come out of that character. So again, pretty subjective. However, this is particularly tricky for anime because the performance has already been done by a voice actor in Japan, leading to preconceived notions of what fits the character and what doesn't. For that reason, many people tend to judge whether or not an English anime dub voice "fits" on the similarity of their voice to the original Japanese actor. From my end, I've never seen anybody saying that an English voice actor's voice for a cartoon of English origin "doesn't fit." That complaint has almost always been reserved for anime performances, it would seem.
Totally understand that. Yeah, I know about that picture process... damn pleasing others can be difficult sometimes!

What I was trying to say was how sometimes they say a voice needs 'youthfulness' to it or even voice actors will say their voice is young and youthful. Vegeta is not youthful but he isn't old. With Kai, I think he nails the pitch, I mean, he is dead on! Remastered, he was a little too deep, especially for the size of the character. We want to take him seriously, and having this short guy with this DEEP raspy voice just is odd. It would be like if Recoome went up a few octaves; we wouldn't take him seriously.

Anyways, originality is important too and having 'the voice' is subjective yes, but Sabat does have a voice to copy off of, which was meant for the character in the original. That is where I draw the line and if one doesn't do it properly, it's not good. Say if a dubber, voice actor or whatever had to dub a Jackie Chan movie, we are not going to give him a voice to deep for Jackie Chan. We are going to find someone who can emulate the vocal range of the actors.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Hades » Wed May 02, 2012 6:43 am

However, even in Kai, they didn't aim for 100% accuracy. Take Chris Ayres' Freeza. He was brilliant, and emulated Nakao. However, when he got to the third transformation, he went for an even deeper voice, unlike Nakao, who went for a higher pitch. Or even take Schemmel's Goku. There was no way he could emulate a woman's take on the character, lest it go as badly as Freeza from the old dub, yet he delivered a phenomenal performance as Goku.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by dbboxkaifan » Wed May 02, 2012 9:45 am

Hades wrote:However, even in Kai, they didn't aim for 100% accuracy. Take Chris Ayres' Freeza. He was brilliant, and emulated Nakao. However, when he got to the third transformation, he went for an even deeper voice, unlike Nakao, who went for a higher pitch. Or even take Schemmel's Goku. There was no way he could emulate a woman's take on the character, lest it go as badly as Freeza from the old dub, yet he delivered a phenomenal performance as Goku.
Chris Ayres sounded nothing like Mr. Nakao, Ayres still made Freeza sound like a woman.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Pokewhiz7 » Wed May 02, 2012 2:46 pm

dbboxkaifan wrote:
Hades wrote:However, even in Kai, they didn't aim for 100% accuracy. Take Chris Ayres' Freeza. He was brilliant, and emulated Nakao. However, when he got to the third transformation, he went for an even deeper voice, unlike Nakao, who went for a higher pitch. Or even take Schemmel's Goku. There was no way he could emulate a woman's take on the character, lest it go as badly as Freeza from the old dub, yet he delivered a phenomenal performance as Goku.
Chris Ayres sounded nothing like Mr. Nakao, Ayres still made Freeza sound like a woman.
That would be the strangest woman I've ever heard. He sounds like a man to me.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by VegettoEX » Wed May 02, 2012 2:50 pm

Much like Nozawa's Goku sounds neither male nor female to me, the same goes with Ayres' portrayal of Freeza. The character is the character.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by dbboxkaifan » Wed May 02, 2012 2:53 pm

Pokewhiz7 wrote:That would be the strangest woman I've ever heard. He sounds like a man to me.
There's all kind of vocals for woman/men, don't be surprised. Heck, even some females have a bit of moustache.

Edit: Goku is different from Freeza, they shouldn't be compared.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Lord Eeyore Haw-Haw » Wed May 02, 2012 2:58 pm

Umm... Could you explain what these differences are, and why it's alright for one and not the other?

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