Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Attitudefan » Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:02 pm

Maybe this is really a topic for another thread, but I've been thinking about this since this news broke.
8000 Saiyan wrote:I wonder who commissioned Ocean to produce this dub. I have this feeling that it was someone at Funimation.
I'm am leaning towards this as well. This is why I think the likes of Schemmel had a chance to even hear what this sounded like and we had that partnership between Ocean and FUNi for the TV edits of Kai.

If this is true, the biggest thing on my mind now is if FUNi's dominance in the anime market overseas—in the west—is actually a good thing or actually has hurt the anime industry in the long run.

Like:
TheBlackPaladin wrote:it's also pretty telling of the anime industry in general, and how far it has fallen from what it once was.
Yes. I don't know if it is because of the internet, FUNi's near monopoly on anime in the West, Japan's strict laws in licensing overseas material, or the current moe/harem themed narratives that dominate the industry, low working wages for careers in the industry, or a combination of all these things that has lead to this downfall.

But as we know, the UK seemed to have had a choice but was pressured by Toei (maybe FUNi as well—behind closed doors—supporting Toei's decision) to force the American dub over the Canadian one to be aired. It does make me wonder how much power FUNi has over other dubbing companies where very few companies other than FUNi now can even get their dubs released or licensed. Particularly with Dragon Ball, FUNi has a monopoly over distribution rights and merchandising. Since 2000, the trend has been a downward spiral of the popularity of Dragon Ball and its profitability. Now, I'm not saying these things are mutual but Pokemon, which is also a long running series, has stayed majorly profitable and Dragon Ball has not.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub IS DEAD...

Post by simtek34 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:15 pm

Goodbye Ocean Dragon Ball Z Kai. May a flight of arm-regenerating 3 eyed cowboys sing "Rock the Dragon" to thy other dimentsion.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by TVfan721 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:43 pm

It's been pretty obvious for several years that this dub was never coming out.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:38 pm

Attitudefan wrote:Maybe this is really a topic for another thread, but I've been thinking about this since this news broke.
8000 Saiyan wrote:I wonder who commissioned Ocean to produce this dub. I have this feeling that it was someone at Funimation.
I'm am leaning towards this as well. This is why I think the likes of Schemmel had a chance to even hear what this sounded like and we had that partnership between Ocean and FUNi for the TV edits of Kai.
I'm not sure why FUNimation would pay for a dub that that they're not really that involved with, though. The alternative pronunciations we've heard about ("Naw-mek" instead of "Nam-ik") suggest that FUNimation wasn't the head honcho with the Ocean dub.

Having said that, I think you're right that, if Schemmel got a chance to hear it, it was likely because of their partnership with Ocean for the Nicktoons edits ("Ocean Studios" was indeed credited for the edits in the credits of the Nicktoons-edited FUNimation dub). FUNimation may not have paid for the whole dub, but my theory has been that perhaps they did pay specifically for the edits. I've theorized that they did this in exchange for being allowed to use that same edited footage for the Nicktoons airing. It would have been a mutually beneficial thing: the Ocean dub was going to be a TV-only dub, so in allowing for FUNimation to pay for the edits, Ocean would actually be receiving money for edits that they needed to do anyway, and FUNimation could then have edited footage ready to go for Nicktoons. It's possible that that would include edited audio, as well...and anybody at FUNimation might have been able to hear it once Ocean sent the edited footage back to FUNimation, which would explain how Schemmel heard it.
simtek34 wrote:Goodbye Ocean Dragon Ball Z Kai. May a flight of arm-regenerating 3 eyed cowboys sing "Rock the Dragon" to thy other dimension.
If this thread is ever locked, this post needs to be the official send-out quote. :lol:
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Arian » Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:55 pm

As bleak as things look, I haven't lost hope. In 2011, 4Kids was supposed to lose the rights to Yu-Gi-Oh! entirely, but they ended up dubbing and releasing Yu-Gi-Oh! Zexal.

Who knows? Minds can change, a certain network in Canada (Teletoon) may be in need of a Dragon Ball fix, next thing you know, BAM! Ocean dub Kai.
Was the hate for Kai largely unjustified?
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:It's an edited, cynically produced, cheap recut with a poorly utilized ancient score and awful scene recreations that later got traded in for a weird green tint.

The story of Kai's production is far more interesting than the actual product.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:23 pm

The other thought that occurred to me--acknowledging ahead of time, of course, that now I'm just talking wishful thinking, not events that I actually think are likely to happen--is that perhaps we may get an Ocean dub of Super. Perhaps Ocean abandoned Kai because it took too long to get a TV deal, and Kai is no longer a "new" or "special" thing like it was a few years ago. Hopefully they can dub Super and secure a deal much more quickly this time around.

This time around, though, they better be completely certain to actually get a TV deal first before going ahead and dubbing the whole show only to find out that no TV network is interested.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Godgoku95 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:28 pm

meh i don't care

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by ShadowDude112 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:48 am

Kirbopher wrote:Hey folks, so I got some bad news.

I spoke with a couple folks who worked on the alternate Canadian dub for DBZ Kai. For their privacy, I won't be stating names. All I'll say is, it's some people who haven't been brought up in this thread at all; this was entirely new information.

The only new, and relevant, thing I found out...is that this dub isn't coming out. That may seem hard to believe, considering the money spent to produce it, but it was created for a very specific purpose and that purpose has more of less passed. It's a shame, as I know from 6 years of discussion and 180 pages of this thread ongoing, mostly because of little snippets of information that've leaked out, a lot of people wanted to see it. Unfortunately, while the whole thing is basically 'done', it looks like it's gonna stay in the vault forever. Sorry to disappoint.
Cool. So now we can lock this thread and be done with this forever since nothing will ever come of it.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:25 am

You know what would be truly hilarious? If the Kai dub was cancelled in favor of an Ocean Super Dub... that ends up never coming and stringing us along like a bunch of fools for the second time. Yes, I enjoy Gallows Humor LOL.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by NitroEX » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:34 am

If Kirbopher can clarify things a little more, I'm interested to know if the people he got this information from were actors or people working behind the scenes (producers, directors, editors, that sort of thing).

After hearing this bit of sad news I went to social media to try and ask some of the actors if it was true or not and the one response I did get seems to conflict with what Kirbopher is saying. The actor who responded to me in a private message (who I will leave unnamed) tells me that "I am told that it is coming out and I am not allowed to tell when or if there is confirmation". They then mention that they are under a nondisclosure agreement with ocean group and thus cannot say any more than that.

Now I've followed this dub long enough to know that the actors themselves aren't necessarily the best source for accurate information on this dub however this is why I'm interested in the role of the person who broke the bad news to Kirbopher. If it was another actor then obviously there's misinformation going around somewhere because it would mean there are conflicting statements being made by actors in the production, however, if the information came from someone higher up the chain then I'd be more inclined to believe this dub is indeed dead and buried.
TheBlackPaladin wrote:
Attitudefan wrote: I'm am leaning towards this as well. This is why I think the likes of Schemmel had a chance to even hear what this sounded like and we had that partnership between Ocean and FUNi for the TV edits of Kai.
I'm not sure why FUNimation would pay for a dub that that they're not really that involved with, though. The alternative pronunciations we've heard about ("Naw-mek" instead of "Nam-ik") suggest that FUNimation wasn't the head honcho with the Ocean dub.

Having said that, I think you're right that, if Schemmel got a chance to hear it, it was likely because of their partnership with Ocean for the Nicktoons edits ("Ocean Studios" was indeed credited for the edits in the credits of the Nicktoons-edited FUNimation dub). FUNimation may not have paid for the whole dub, but my theory has been that perhaps they did pay specifically for the edits. I've theorized that they did this in exchange for being allowed to use that same edited footage for the Nicktoons airing. It would have been a mutually beneficial thing: the Ocean dub was going to be a TV-only dub, so in allowing for FUNimation to pay for the edits, Ocean would actually be receiving money for edits that they needed to do anyway, and FUNimation could then have edited footage ready to go for Nicktoons. It's possible that that would include edited audio, as well...and anybody at FUNimation might have been able to hear it once Ocean sent the edited footage back to FUNimation, which would explain how Schemmel heard it.
Yeah, FUnimation likely weren't the ones behind the Canadian Kai dub. Aside from the clues you mention such as pronunciation differences there's also the fact that Funi seem to have an aversion to outsourcing dubbing work to Ocean in the first place, it's only when they're absolutely forced to use them (such as with anime like Black Lagoon) that we ever see this happen. The fact that they went in-house for the Escaflowne redub despite being crowdfunded speaks volumes about that in my opinion.

Anyway, that aside, I do think there was some collusion going on between Ocean and Funimation when it comes to the footage. Aside from Ocean being credited for editing in the Nicktoons dub it appears that this partnership may go back even further to the broadcasts of the Funi DBZ dub. My guess is that they've always had a deal in place to use Funimation's footage in exchange for editing services or something along those lines.
TheBlackPaladin wrote:I'm still really shocked over this. The first thing that keeps coming up in my mind is the financial aspect. Somebody paid for all those people involved with that 98-episode dub (actors, writers, engineers, editors, musicians), and their work won't even be seen or heard. From a financial perspective, this dub may hold the world record for the most colossal waste of money in the history of dubbing. With all do respect to the producers, whose idea was it to pay for all that before a TV deal had even been secured for this TV-only dub?

I would hope it'll still get a release someday even if it's just to justify the money that was spent.
I've wondered about this too and it reminded me of something I read in an interview about one of my favourite cancelled shows, 'Megas XLR'. When asked if that show could ever come back in the form of a crowdfunded, kickstarter type of thing the creator mentioned in an interview that "Megas was written off as a tax loss and as such can not be exploited, at least domestically, in any way, or the network will get into some sort of tax/legal trouble." Now I'm no legal expert but part of me feels like this Kai dub could have also suffered a similar fate. I hope it isn't the case though.
ShadowDude112 wrote:Cool. So now we can lock this thread and be done with this forever since nothing will ever come of it.
Nice try. There's plenty of discussion that can still come of this, especially if the dub is indeed dead and actors can (eventually) reveal more information such as casting choices. If you want this discussion to go away and have nothing to contribute then you have the option to ignore it.
Last edited by NitroEX on Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by eledoremassis02 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:36 am

If this is true thats sad because I think their reason for making the dub still exists. There is still a fanbase who can't wait to see it. But who really knows whats up. I still find it very strange the Boo Kai and Super are not even released over here with the FUNimation cast which makes me think something is up. FUNi has been pretty quick on these things and not even an announcement
to Super?

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Attitudefan » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:35 am

Nitro you brought up some excellent points. It could explain why Ocean was able to use Funimation scripts and footage back when they were dubbing DBZ the first time around. Perhaps contractually, there has always been some deal with Ocean regarding rights of DBZ which not only had included voice work, but use and editing of footage as well. Perhaps the reason Ocean Kai could even exist was due to these deals regarding the Dragon Ball franchise in North America that stem back from the 90s. It would be crazy if that was the case. It may even explain, to a large degree, why Canada hasn't seen any DB material, and there was that situation in the UK regarding the dubs. If not, perhaps it was a new deal for sure that was made back in 2010 under similar contractual circumstances.

But legal issues can be complicated and lead to weird situations as we are seeing right now. It's interesting no other anime seem to have these sort of deals in place...
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:57 am

If they intended Ocean Kai to be a TV-only dub, then they probably should have secured a deal with either YTV or Teletoon before they started production of the dub.
"It was deemed to be too awesome." - Scott McNeil on Dragon Ball Kai not being aired yet in Canada.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Godgoku95 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:15 pm

Wait so is the dub cancelled or not, i'm confused

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:28 pm

Godgoku95 wrote:Wait so is the dub cancelled or not, i'm confused
Well, before I go any further, let me just clarify that by "cancelled" we're talking about whether the dub will be seen or not. This dub is indeed a real thing and has been completed (at least before the Buu arc), but it may have been "cancelled" in the sense that Ocean couldn't secure a TV deal...and a TV deal is necessary when your dub is going to be a TV-only dub like this one was. As 8000 Saiyan said so perfectly...
8000 Saiyan wrote:If they intended Ocean Kai to be a TV-only dub, then they probably should have secured a deal with either YTV or Teletoon before they started production of the dub.
This. So much this. I'm quite shocked that they went ahead with paying for a 98-episode dub before actually being sure if they could even get it out there or not.

So, with that out of the way, the gist of how things stand right now is that we don't know for a fact if it's cancelled or not, but we're almost completely sure it is, because Kirbopher--who has inside connections and has been, by far, one of the most reliable sources we've had about dub-related news--said it is. He said he heard this from a reliable source, and given Kirbopher's track record, we believe him. While it's true that some of the actors made statements to the contrary, there are two reasons this is not particularly comforting:

1) My guess is that these statements were made before the decision to cancel the dub was made.
2) Actors are not a reliable source of information on release dates, because with extremely rare exceptions, they're never given that information. That's info that only producers would know. Actors don't have any official responsibilities beyond just acting in their roles...they don't know about the writing, translation, editing, music, release dates...that's all info that they're not officially responsible for. They're only responsible for what they're paid to do, which in this case would be acting. They come in, they act their parts, the director says, "OK, thanks, see you next week!"...and that's that for them.

So, while we can't put it at 100% that we'll never see this dub, it sounds like we can put it at 99.99%.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:11 pm

I still don't understand the need of having Blue Water VA's for minor characters when they have McNeil voicing Dr. Briefs.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Arian » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:33 pm

Believe it or not, all hope is not lost here. We all have to band together and get Teletoon to see that we want this show on the airwaves.

Go to this link, https://www.teletoon.com/en/info/contact

Go to "I want to make a suggestion" and request "Dragon Ball Kai produced by Ocean Studios."

Image

You can be elaborate or keep it short and sweet. Just get the message across. If enough of us email them, they may consider it.
Last edited by Arian on Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Was the hate for Kai largely unjustified?
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:It's an edited, cynically produced, cheap recut with a poorly utilized ancient score and awful scene recreations that later got traded in for a weird green tint.

The story of Kai's production is far more interesting than the actual product.
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Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:40 pm
Screw Corus and it's monopoly. It should sell off the Nick, Disney, and CN assets at minimum.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:40 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:I still don't understand the need of having Blue Water VA's for minor characters when they have McNeil voicing Dr. Briefs.
It's likely a cost thing. The union status of this dub is not particularly clear, but the general consensus is that Vancouver dubbing projects pay their actors more than Calgary dubbing projects do.
Arian wrote:Believe it or not, all hope is not lost here. We all have to band together and get Teletoon to see that we want this show on the airwaves.

Go to this link, https://www.teletoon.com/en/info/contact

Go to "I want to make a suggesstion" and request "Dragon Ball Kai."

You can be elaborate or keep it short and sweet. Just get the message across. If enough of us email them, they may consider it.
Eh, couldn't hurt. I don't suspect it'll work, but what do we have to lose at this point, right? The only thing I'd add is to specifically request the Ocean dub, otherwise they might use the FUNimation dub, and that would truly be the final nail the coffin for any chance of seeing the Ocean Kai dub.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:00 pm

I have sent them an e-mail.
"It was deemed to be too awesome." - Scott McNeil on Dragon Ball Kai not being aired yet in Canada.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by SX10 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:45 pm

I sent an e-mail too!
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