Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

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Cipher
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Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by Cipher » Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:47 pm

So, after not following Kai for the entirety of the Saiyan/Freeza material, I've started watching it again in the Cell arc. I'm still not entirely warmed up to Kai, but I am about to praise it for one thing.

I hadn't watched the Z-version Cell arc in Japanese until I got my Dragon Box 4 the other week, so the first time I listened to full episodes of Wakamoto's Cell was actually via Kai. I've seen a lot of criticism of his performance on this board, but I have to say, having watched both the Z and Kai versions now, I prefer him in Kai.

I was introduced to Wakamoto via Hellsing, where he is literally all about the drawn out syllables, guttural shouts, and strange pronunciations. That all carried through to Kai, and coupled with the really bizarre, monstrous noises he gave 1st form Cell, it made for an incredibly creepy and entertaining villain.

When I went to watch Z, he just seemed so much more ... subdued. I could still tell it was him, but a bit of that otherworldly creepiness was gone. He was just a mildly guttural, deep-voiced character, with a "bweh" thrown in every once in a while (I honestly expected/hoped for far more of these). Every so often he'd really shine through with a really psychotic line-reading like "Ii taimingu da!!" as he sensed Piccolo fighting #17, but these didn't happen nearly as often as I'd have liked.

So, has anyone else been finding Wakamoto more effective and creepy in Kai than Z? I just feel like the more over-the-top he is, the more enjoyable he is. And he's certainly more over-the-top in Kai.

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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by penguintruth » Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:42 pm

Wakamoto's first form Cell in Kai was inferior to his first form Cell in Z. It sounded like he was having trouble getting back into character. But his second form Cell is about as good as it was in Z. I wonder how his Perfect Cell will sound.
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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by Cipher » Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:14 pm

penguintruth wrote:Wakamoto's first form Cell in Kai was inferior to his first form Cell in Z. It sounded like he was having trouble getting back into character.
See, that's what I liked. It was all over the place, with lots of bizarre pronunciations, dragged out syllables, and really weird noises. A lot more interesting than Z, in my opinion, and it actually disappointed me to hear his original performance when I got to those episodes.

Even in his second form now, the voice is still a lot more crazed and guttural than it used to be. Do people just not dig this direction as much?

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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by Coola Yagami » Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:12 pm

I haven't heard much of his Z performance... but I do agree with the guy that posted that the scene in Kai where Cell is screaming at the general population below just sounded like him talking in monotone, just raised up loud and with echo effects added in.

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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:26 pm

I fear I do not prefer (or espicially like) Wakamoto's Cell in Dragon Ball Kai. It lacks the sharpness of his Dragon Ball Z performance, espicially when it comes to the yelling. The passion is simply lacking. For fun, I tossed together this comparison of Cell yelling his ultimatum to #18 as he begins blowing up islands.

Placing his yelling aside for a moment, I don't feel like he's performing the same character. There's something to be said for being tired of voicing a character the same way, but I feel like his performances have lost the elements that made them so suave and unique, and thus have sort of gotten away from what has helped me come to love the character. Luckily there is still the odd line every once in a while in which I feel is well done.
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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by penguintruth » Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:17 pm

I think the problem is, Wakamoto has sort of gotten caught up in being Wakamoto. He's expected to be a certain way now in all his roles, and so he does that "expected Wakamoto voice" instead of just doing it as he did it for years. But I guess age might also have something to do with it.

It's still hard to find a better voice actor than Wakamoto, and it's harder to imagine anyone else being Cell.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by Vhanos » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:33 pm

Wakamoto's age really is showing the difference between the two versions.

In Kai there are times when Cell sounds like he is about to get sick.

In Z he did a lot better at making Cell sound like a monster.

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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by Tsukento » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:23 am

Vhanos wrote:Wakamoto's age really is showing the difference between the two versions.

In Kai there are times when Cell sounds like he is about to get sick.

In Z he did a lot better at making Cell sound like a monster.
It ain't his age, I'm afraid. It's more among the lines of Kai's directors just not being up to par.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuseJNxtK88 This anime's rather recent and his acting is as sharp as it was back then, including his scream at the end of the video.
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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:29 am

In addition to the director not being up to par...I wonder if there isn't an issue with the actors now having to match to [more] complete animation. I think the bulk of Dragon Ball Z was done with little to no ADR.
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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by Adamant » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:34 am

JulieYBM wrote:I fear I do not prefer (or espicially like) Wakamoto's Cell in Dragon Ball Kai. It lacks the sharpness of his Dragon Ball Z performance, espicially when it comes to the yelling. The passion is simply lacking. For fun, I tossed together this comparison of Cell yelling his ultimatum to #18 as he begins blowing up islands.
While that scene is rather bland and unimpressive compared to the original, I must say I agree with Cipher that Wakamoto's direction for Kai Cell makes for a more interesting character. Penguintruth has a point in that Wakamoto seemingly had a bit of trouble getting into character at first, though - the first couple episodes he was in had Cell's voice differ wildly between episodes.
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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by Tsukento » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:04 am

Honestly, I felt Wakamoto thought Cell was a motorcycle rather than an insectoid when doing the first form in Kai. Particularly in the certain noise he makes, which is more emphasized in Kai.
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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by LuckyCat » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:31 am

I really miss his old performance actually. It's weird, because he seems to be able to replicate that performance in the games.

Here's a comparison video that shows Wakamoto's Z compared to Kai:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0hDuLj5V9o

And just for fun this is Wakamoto around the same era voicing Vicious from Cowboy Bebop:

https://youtu.be/VsEZPi72wi8?t=1m20s

Wakamoto used to do this really raspy, almost insect-like voice. Then he just quit doing it in Kai :(
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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by Doctor. » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:57 am

LuckyCat wrote:Here's a comparison video that shows Wakamoto's Z compared to Kai:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0hDuLj5V9o
It's like he was parodying himself, he was absolutely awful in Kai. Then again, I think most of the original cast were, in general, worse than in Z, but Wakamoto was the worst one, which is surprising considering he's one of the best voice actors out there.

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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:01 pm

Doctor. wrote:
LuckyCat wrote:Here's a comparison video that shows Wakamoto's Z compared to Kai:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0hDuLj5V9o
It's like he was parodying himself, he was absolutely awful in Kai. Then again, I think most of the original cast were, in general, worse than in Z, but Wakamoto was the worst one, which is surprising considering he's one of the best voice actors out there.
That was happens when the same VA has to re-read the same lines over and over and over again. Eventually, the quality of the performance and delivery of the lines starts to decline. Plus, age is a factor in how well you can perform too.

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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by Ajay » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:03 pm

Five year necropost. Impressive.

But no, Wakamoto isn't terrible in Kai, but he's certainly not better than he was in Z. The description that it "felt like he was parodying himself" is accurate. It's over the top and not a touch on his original performance.

He's clearly bored with the character. You only have to listen to his work in Xenoverse to know that much. That was terrible.
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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by Doctor. » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:05 pm

Ajay wrote:Five year necropost. Impressive.

But no, Wakamoto isn't terrible in Kai, but he's certainly not better than he was in Z. The description that it "felt like he was parodying himself" is accurate. It's over the top and not a touch on his original performance.

He's clearly bored with the character. You only have to listen to his work in Xenoverse to know that much. That was terrible.
I think he was definitely terrible as first form Cell. He managed to redeem himself when Cell transformed later on, but early on, it was almost unbearable to listen to.

In regards to his Xenoverse work, strangely enough I think that the bored voice and tone he used fits Cell quite a bit.

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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by LuckyCat » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:39 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
LuckyCat wrote:Here's a comparison video that shows Wakamoto's Z compared to Kai:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0hDuLj5V9o
It's like he was parodying himself, he was absolutely awful in Kai. Then again, I think most of the original cast were, in general, worse than in Z, but Wakamoto was the worst one, which is surprising considering he's one of the best voice actors out there.
That was happens when the same VA has to re-read the same lines over and over and over again. Eventually, the quality of the performance and delivery of the lines starts to decline. Plus, age is a factor in how well you can perform too.
Yes, age could be a factor, but he's not that old as far as Dragon Ball VAs go, and it really sounds like he's going for a different style for Cell these days.
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Re: Anyone actually liking Wakamoto better in Kai?

Post by Black_Liger » Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:15 pm

First form Cell in Z sounds badass and Creepy.

First form Cell in Kai sounds like a MAD BUGMAN MOTHERFUCKER. In a good way. I'd say Z Cell is better but Kai Cell is interesting too.
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