Why is the Replacement Score so Limited?

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

Why is it that these alternate broadcasts of Kai have tracks from things like DBZ Movie 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYf6EEBJEBQ
While the home releases and the Nicktoons broadcast is restricted to music from DBZ Movies 6-9:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9juJrkKR ... re=related
Would anyone be able to explain?

[ThunderPX]

I believe it's because they don't want to use any mono music, but those initial TV broadcasts were put together more hastily so they ended up with some mono pieces in there.

[kei17]

I believe it's because they don't want to use any mono music, but those initial TV broadcasts were put together more hastily so they ended up with some mono pieces in there.

Exactly. As a result, now they are using the pieces from early episodes (M700s), movie 6 to 9, and the Buu arc (M1700s). Other stereo pieces from movie 3 and 11 to 13 aren't used because of some copyright/budget problem. Columbia still has the multi-track tapes of all the tracks and they can get every piece in stereo by remixing them, but they've already run out of money.

[Tanooki Kuribo]

I believe it's because they don't want to use any mono music, but those initial TV broadcasts were put together more hastily so they ended up with some mono pieces in there.

Exactly. As a result, now they are using the pieces from early episodes (M700s), movie 6 to 9, and the Buu arc (M1700s). Other stereo pieces from movie 3 and 11 to 13 aren't used because of some copyright/budget problem. Columbia still has the multi-track tapes of all the tracks and they can get every piece in stereo by remixing them, but they've already run out of money.

Hmm, would you happen to know how many pieces of music that is, roughly?

[kei17]

I believe it's because they don't want to use any mono music, but those initial TV broadcasts were put together more hastily so they ended up with some mono pieces in there.

Exactly. As a result, now they are using the pieces from early episodes (M700s), movie 6 to 9, and the Buu arc (M1700s). Other stereo pieces from movie 3 and 11 to 13 aren't used because of some copyright/budget problem. Columbia still has the multi-track tapes of all the tracks and they can get every piece in stereo by remixing them, but they've already run out of money.

Hmm, would you happen to know how many pieces of music that is, roughly?

I counted them before, but don't remember the number anymore. It was roughly 80 or so. I do it again now.

[Tanooki Kuribo]

Wow, I thought you were gonna say somewhere around 20! I really didn't think they had roughly 80 pieces to work with. Cool, I guess...

[kei17]

Wow, I thought you were gonna say somewhere around 20! I really didn't think they had roughly 80 pieces to work with. Cool, I guess...

I counted them again and it turned out that there are 91 pieces of music that they can use. If my memory serves me right, however, they are now using only 64 pieces (63 out of 91 + one mono piece).

[Kendamu]

Wow, I thought you were gonna say somewhere around 20! I really didn't think they had roughly 80 pieces to work with. Cool, I guess...

I counted them again and it turned out that there are 91 pieces of music that they can use. If my memory serves me right, however, they are now using only 64 pieces (63 out of 91 + one mono piece).

64 pieces sounds like plenty. It's not like each episode of Z or Kai ever utilized a diverse amount of songs on a regular basis.

[kei17]

I counted them again and it turned out that there are 91 pieces of music that they can use. If my memory serves me right, however, they are now using only 64 pieces (63 out of 91 + one mono piece).

64 pieces sounds like plenty. It's not like each episode of Z or Kai ever utilized a diverse amount of songs on a regular basis.

That may sound kind of plenty, but 64 pieces of music definitely aren't enough for the entire series that has nearly 100 episodes. Even GT had more. In addition, about half of them are from early episodes of Z (M700s), so the lack of variety is serious.

[Kendamu]

It's plenty for me. I'm used to long running shows having a limited soundtrack.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I've always been of the belief that a show shouldn't have too much or too little variety, and I prefer it to air on the side of too little.

Yes, it's certainly true that if there's too little music, then the music loses its effect because you hear it too often. The opposite has a similar effect, though. If there are too many music tracks, the viewer can't form an emotional connection to any of the pieces. Sometimes a bit of repetition is good, because it can be very cinematically effective when viewers come to associate specific pieces of music with specific emotional responses (sadness, excitement, whatever). For example, take the theme music for specific characters. Not even just Dragon Ball, this is universal, think Superman or Indiana Jones. If you hear their theme music often enough, we can react with automatic excitement when we just hear the first few notes. A composer can even play with the piece by speeding it up, slowing it down, or playing it with different instruments to show the various emotional stages of the character (piano when they're sad, electric guitar when they're angry, etc). I'll always prefer too little variety for that reason.

[kei17]

I've always been of the belief that a show shouldn't have too much or too little variety, and I prefer it to air on the side of too little.

Yes, it's certainly true that if there's too little music, then the music loses its effect because you hear it too often. The opposite has a similar effect, though. If there are too many music tracks, the viewer can't form an emotional connection to any of the pieces. Sometimes a bit of repetition is good, because it can be very cinematically effective when viewers come to associate specific pieces of music with specific emotional responses (sadness, excitement, whatever). For example, take the theme music for specific characters. Not even just Dragon Ball, this is universal, think Superman or Indiana Jones. If you hear their theme music often enough, we can react with automatic excitement when we just hear the first few notes. A composer can even play with the piece by speeding it up, slowing it down, or playing it with different instruments to show the various emotional stages of the character (piano when they're sad, electric guitar when they're angry, etc). I'll always prefer too little variety for that reason.

I understand your opinion and partially agree with it. However, I think you cannot apply the same logic to this case because the one who has been doing the musical placement is totally incompetent. His placement has always been just repetitive and the things got even worse because of this situation.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I've always been of the belief that a show shouldn't have too much or too little variety, and I prefer it to air on the side of too little.

Yes, it's certainly true that if there's too little music, then the music loses its effect because you hear it too often. The opposite has a similar effect, though. If there are too many music tracks, the viewer can't form an emotional connection to any of the pieces. Sometimes a bit of repetition is good, because it can be very cinematically effective when viewers come to associate specific pieces of music with specific emotional responses (sadness, excitement, whatever). For example, take the theme music for specific characters. Not even just Dragon Ball, this is universal, think Superman or Indiana Jones. If you hear their theme music often enough, we can react with automatic excitement when we just hear the first few notes. A composer can even play with the piece by speeding it up, slowing it down, or playing it with different instruments to show the various emotional stages of the character (piano when they're sad, electric guitar when they're angry, etc). I'll always prefer too little variety for that reason.

I understand your opinion and partially agree with it. However, I think you cannot apply the same logic to this case because the one who has been doing the musical placement is totally incompetent. His placement has always been just repetitive and the things got even worse because of this situation.

Oh definitely. I was just making an observation about music in general. I would agree that the scores for Kai--both Yamamoto's and the Kikuchi-Kai mix--are a tad on the repetitive side, and probably a little too much so. Never the less, I would prefer that over having so many tracks that we never remember anything.

[SolarBlade52]

I believe it's because they don't want to use any mono music, but those initial TV broadcasts were put together more hastily so they ended up with some mono pieces in there.

Exactly. As a result, now they are using the pieces from early episodes (M700s), movie 6 to 9, and the Buu arc (M1700s). Other stereo pieces from movie 3 and 11 to 13 aren't used because of some copyright/budget problem. Columbia still has the multi-track tapes of all the tracks and they can get every piece in stereo by remixing them, but they've already run out of money.

That's weird. I thought the music for those said movies were very original. I don't here any of those pieces resembling other songs.

[kei17]

Exactly. As a result, now they are using the pieces from early episodes (M700s), movie 6 to 9, and the Buu arc (M1700s). Other stereo pieces from movie 3 and 11 to 13 aren't used because of some copyright/budget problem. Columbia still has the multi-track tapes of all the tracks and they can get every piece in stereo by remixing them, but they've already run out of money.

That's weird. I thought the music for those said movies were very original. I don't here any of those pieces resembling other songs.

Sorry for the confusion. I meant to say use rights. They are now kind of 'borrowing' some tracks from a CD release, so they have to pay a lot of money to JASRAC/FUJI PACIFIC MUSIC, Inc./Columbia.

[SolarBlade52]

This is a shame. I did my own math by counting how many pieces were in Z. Special Thanks to Kenisu. There are about 380 pieces originally composed for Z. And by subtracting, here are the results:
-There are 135 unreleased Z pieces and 245 released Z pieces. 64% of Z BGMs are released.

-They can't use pieces that are re-arrangements of Cha la Head cha la, We Gotta Power, and We Are Angels (27 pieces). This drops down to 57%. 218 released BGMs.

-All pieces from Movies 1, 2, 4 and 5 are mono pieces. Now it's 175 released BGMs (46%).

-Stereo pieces for movies 3, 11, 12, and 13 can't be used because of some bullcrap budget problem. It is now 125 released BGM's (33%).

-And finally, they are using the songs from the BGM collection only. So out of all of the BGM's in DBZ, they are only allowed to use 98 (26%).

I can understand that they can't use unreleased BGM and some of the re-arrangements for the opening and endings, but this is still pathetic. This doesn't really make up for the fact that the sound director is still incapable of choosing the right pieces despite plenty of time he has for them.

[penguintruth]

Well, the movie 9 stuff is, in my opinion, Kikuchi's best.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

Well, the movie 9 stuff is, in my opinion, Kikuchi's best.

I always loved the music from DBZ movies 1, 3, 6 and 8 the best.

[DanielGClapp]

That's one of the only things that I like about kai is it's music. It's pretty sad that there couldn't have been a larger score on the original Z. At least one score per saga or whatever. They did change the music themes and suff after the cell games, but not much. That's where kai comes in. Though kai is repetitive also, at least some of it if fresh. Also it is worth nothing that in the original Z, when trunks becomes super saiyan against Frieza, the song that is playing is only played that one time, as far as I have heard. THIS is why that particular scene is my favorite scene in the whole series. It was the music of that scene combined with Trunks's epic transformation that will hold a special place in my heart. Not sure how this goes down in kai though. But, IMO, whether movies, t.v. shows or just whatever, they can only be as epic as their music allows them to be.

[worldmonsters]

I reallllllyyyyy don't agree with having too much different music that you don't grow attached to the music. I mean... look at series beyond anime, just reallife stuff. Every episode has new music scored for it, with some exceptions of things like bottle shows where they need to spend as little money as possible. For example Star Trek. Each episode has different music, yet some episodes, like "Best of Both Worlds" or one of my personal favourites "The Defector" have, to me, memorable music that I really really like.

Same goes with movies. If you watch a movie does the soundtrack have a different impact because it's only used once? :p

Onnnnn the other hand. When a nice theme is used more often, it gives me a smile :p But if I have to chose between a lot of tunes and not a lot, it's definetely a lot I want :p

Also just 64 pieces of music is DEFINITELY too little music! I think Yamamoto's Kai tracks had more than that. Kai had... three soundtrack CD's right? 20 new tracks each? And it missed some stuff, not a lot. And everyone was complainting about that :p And that was music WRITTEN for the series. Now, the 64 pieces were also written for Dragon Ball, but like Kei17 said, that collection wasn't meant for a long series, but for earlier episodes.