Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Discussion specifically regarding the "refreshed" TV version of DBZ created in Japan for its 20th anniversary, including individual threads for each episode.

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dbboxkaifan
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Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by dbboxkaifan » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:37 pm

The Positive:

1. Its best picture quality was during Freeza's arc I loved the PQ of the entire arc it was such an fantastic way of enjoying the series, plus the music placements didn't really suck this time.

2. New animation gave the series a new look but didn't always fit despite the smoothness it has.

3. The series' being smoothed was a great idea, I liked it, but it didn't look all that better other than the times they used 35/36mm (don't know exactly 35 or 36 film reels).

4. Clean and high quality Japanese audio something which the Dragon Boxes Z should've had too.

5. Colours look great better than on the Dragon Boxes Z or FUNi's DBZ Blu-rays' Levels (imo).

The Negative:

1. Inconsistent animation - OP, ED, new scenes added to the old footage didn't really go all that well to make it seem unnoticeable which might be inconvenient to some viewers.

2. While I was watching DBZ Kai Part 7 on Blu-ray I noticed a crapload of white dots on the episodes with Cell and the others, this did annoy me but not to the point of turning it off.

3. Smoothing, new scenes, old scenes.. Kai is a refreshed version of DBZ and new for the younger generation but it still looked like an old anime series.

4. If Toei Animation cared about their fans/audience they wouldn't have hired Yukio Nagasaki because most of his placements are flawed/repetitive.

Extra: 5 - international dubs seem to like to add swearing, just look at the Catalán and English dub for example, the Catalán's got cuss words like "shit" and English (FUNi) such as "bastard" and whatnot. Sure there's profane words in the original Japanese but not always (iirc).

Extra: 6 - I'm aware Dartanian Nickelback is Dameon Clarke's Union name or something but it still saddens me seeing Dartanian Nickelback instead of Dameon Clarke on the credits' list in Kai's ED. :|

Extra: 7 - FUNimation for some reason added "MR. SATAN (HERCULE)" to the credits' list as if the fans don't know Satan's real/stage name.

Extra: 8 - Super Vegeta in Kai with the new animated scenes had grey hair which was cool but sort of unfitting also, his hair is yellow not grey.

Image

Note 1: I don't hate Kai, I actually like it a lot but there was space for improvement.
Note 2: I just did this for fun and didn't take much time since I've made notes while watching it.
Note 3: Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.
FUNimation 2015 Releases I want:
- Kai 2.0 on Blu-ray

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Metalwario64
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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by Metalwario64 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:59 pm

dbboxkaifan wrote:Extra: 8 - Super Vegeta in Kai with the new animated scenes had grey hair which was cool but sort of unfitting also, his hair is yellow not grey.
What? :?
"Kenshi is sitting down right now drawing his mutated spaghetti monsters thinking he's the shit..."--Neptune Kai
"90% of you here don't even know what you're talking about (there are a few that do). But the things you say about these releases are nonsense and just plain dumb. Like you Metalwario64"--final_flash

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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by GotenDaisuki » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:00 pm

Good:

Kai sort of has a new feel to the series, and the English dub is phenominal (minus the repetitive swearing)

Bad:

The Latin American dub is awful awful awful.

THE. REPLACEMENT. SCORE.
Ruined Kai for me.
So mondo lame.

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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by Pokewhiz7 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:37 pm

The good:
  • Cut out most of the filler to create a far more-watchable show. I almost certainly will not be able to rewatch Z in its entirety again.
  • High-quality Japanese audio.
  • A brand-new, excellent English dub.
  • New openings, eyecatches, and endings.
The Bad:
  • Left-in filler such as Gregory and Bulma-Ginyu.
  • Picture quality is awful. Everything looks so blurry, there's often a lot of leftover dust, and the clashing reanimated scenes.
  • Japanese voice-acting not as good as in Z.
  • Acceptable Yamamoto music placement, bad Kikuchi music placement.
  • The principle of it being a cheap cash-in made with old material.
Overall I prefer Kai for its pacing but there's a strong case to be made of Z being a superior show.

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dbboxkaifan
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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by dbboxkaifan » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:43 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:What? :?
This.

Image
GotenDaisuki wrote:The Latin American dub is awful awful awful.
Then the Brazilian Kai is much more inferior due to the audio errors it has, and the DVD release still didn't fix them.
FUNimation 2015 Releases I want:
- Kai 2.0 on Blu-ray

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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by PiscesCaballero » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:42 pm

Good-SPOT ON DUB and SCRIPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take away those nonesense filler and super long charge-ups.

Bad-Some fight scenes look mess up because of taking out filler. For examples Piccolo VS Android 20.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu9C4K3MB50

You can tell that by the sloppy editing that something was cut off and it did not fit well. I wish Toei at least took an extra mile to make some of those edited fights blend in near perfect.

Also I agree with GotenDaisuki the Kikuchi replacement score was badly placed in Kai. Music that were solely for charge-up and battles were being placed in scenes that are NOT FIGHTING such as the flight scenes!

Kageyama didn't come back to comprise a new song-I don't mind replacing the opening to fir the new era but come on NO KAGEYAMA> :x

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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by Metalwario64 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:54 pm

dbboxkaifan wrote:
This.

Image
That's only that one shot though, and to me it seems like it was an intended effect, though I need to check that scene out in Z to make sure.
PiscesCaballero wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu9C4K3MB50

You can tell that by the sloppy editing that something was cut off and it did not fit well.
It's clear that the person who posted that video made lots of little, random cuts to it, if that's what you mean. The actual scene isn't like that though.
"Kenshi is sitting down right now drawing his mutated spaghetti monsters thinking he's the shit..."--Neptune Kai
"90% of you here don't even know what you're talking about (there are a few that do). But the things you say about these releases are nonsense and just plain dumb. Like you Metalwario64"--final_flash

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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by GotenDaisuki » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:31 am

Here's some more:

The bad:

・Different character designs spliced in to one episode at times

・Too much swearing in the dub

・Still using dub terms (Spirit Bomb, Tien, etc.)

・That awful Toonzai edited version
So mondo lame.

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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by Pokewhiz7 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:40 am

GotenDaisuki wrote:・Too much swearing in the dub

・Still using dub terms (Spirit Bomb, Tien, etc.)

・That awful Toonzai edited version
These aren't really issues with Kai itself, though, just the dub.

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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by GotenDaisuki » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:02 am

Yeah, but to most of us our main interest in Kai is centered around the dub. So those are significant problems for most of us.
So mondo lame.

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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by SylentEcho » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:57 am

I almost certainly will not be able to rewatch Z in its entirety again.
What? Why? Most people still prefer Z although they like the pacing of Kai.

The good:
• A new show that brought about a new revival and got a lot of people talking about it.
• The colouring looks more vibrant and fresh.
• Still has it's charm.
• The pacing is excellent and all the old fans of Z I know who hadn't watched an episode in years that watched this absolutely loved it.
• Hearing the JP voice actors again doing some of the dialogues I enjoy.
• The Freeza arc. This arc was terribly in need of a remake and they did it very well.

The bad:
• The Yammamoto score is repetitive.
• Some of the really good filler like Ginyu thrashing Freeza's soldiers, Goku and Piccolo driving etc were cut off and lame filler was kept.
• The Kikuchi score seemed out of place quite often.
• The dub still annoyed me because Goku's character still wasn't done right and Sabat's Vegeta STILL sounds like a guy screaming in a booth. It's so off and out of place.
• No Majin Boo arc.

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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by Pokewhiz7 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:20 pm

SylentEcho wrote:
I almost certainly will not be able to rewatch Z in its entirety again.
What? Why? Most people still prefer Z although they like the pacing of Kai.
Mostly because of certain parts like Goku vs. Freeza, ha ha.

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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by Rory » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:47 pm

Pros: It cuts out a lot of the filler, had (had) good music, and the dub was really good.
Cons: Everything else. Kai sucked the big one. It kept a lot of the filler, it looked like ass (worse than the Dragon Box by far), the Japanese cast sounded tired for the most part, the pacing was absolutely awful, and to add insult to injury was plagued by copyright complications towards the end in regards to one of the only positives.

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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by BrodieK41 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:38 pm

Pros:
-A good English dub with an accurate script
-It's nice to go along the series at a fast pace.

Cons:
-The Yamamoto score is bland and tedious in most parts.
-The replacement score isn't better. I love Kikuchi's music for the series but the way it's used seems out of place most of the time and becomes repetitive.
-Some lackluster performances by the Japanese cast especially Norio Wakamoto and Ryo Horikawa. I love both of these performances in the original series but in Kai, it seems like they're phoning it in.
-Cutting out the final arc of the series.

Now I really don't hate Kai, it just fails to register for me. I'm glad it's introducing new fans to the series but if I want to watch Dragon Ball with the Kikuchi score, I'll just watch the Dragon Box. I'll get better performances by the cast and a more appropriate score placement.

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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by Codarik » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:19 pm

My goods: Blu Ray quality, filler that made plot holes are gone.

My bad: No Buu arc...yet(?)

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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by Hades » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:50 pm

Positives:
- New, high-end dub that showcased how much Funimation had improved since 1999.
- Far less filler.
- brilliant quality picture.

Negatives:
- How the legal issues wrt the soundtrack were handled.
- No Buu Saga.
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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by DragonBoxZTheMovies » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:56 pm

Pros.
- Editing flowed smoothly if you had no prior experience with the show.
- Goku vs. Freeza was paced and executed perfectly. Episode 52 was amazing. :D
- Yamamoto's score was very cinematic.
- Great introduction for new fans.

Cons.
- Poor marketing in the U.S
- Confusing history for casual fans (What is it? Why is it on Nicktoons? Why is the music different in these episodes? They edited out all of the blood!)
- Inconsistent home release.
- Kikuchi score lacks base and "oomph" with the new audio mix.

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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by dbboxkaifan » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:36 am

DragonBoxZTheMovies wrote:Why is it on Nicktoons?
Nicktoons' seem to have handled Kai very well and semi-uncut too.

People say Kai would be uncut on Toonami (if it existed nowadays) but years' changed and so censor restrictions would still be applied.

N's got Kai, GT, Films, Specials and now they need to also air Dragon Ball the original series for the fans/viewers to know where it all commenced.
FUNimation 2015 Releases I want:
- Kai 2.0 on Blu-ray

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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by Eight-Star Dragon » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:30 pm

Good:
- Awesome English dub
- Removal of most filler
- Pretty good quality for something so cost-effective
- Two fantastic scores

Bad:
- A quick cash-in
- Censorship (Which admittedly, couldn't be helped)
- Questionable music placement at times, especially for the Kikuchi score
- Limited Kikuchi score (Again, couldn't really be helped)
- Some of the episodes look like crap, and filler that can't be edited out (Although these two are consequences of how Toei made the series, which for the most part I don't have an issue with)

Neutral:
- The score replacement. I'm pissed beyond all belief that some of Yamamoto's music (including one of his coolest pieces) will forever go unreleased, and that some of the episodes are unscored, but it did turn me on to Kikuchi's music and at least the DVD's can fix the lack of Yamamoto music.

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Re: Your Goods and Bads of Kai

Post by saiyanprimalforce » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:59 pm

dbboxkaifan wrote:
Metalwario64 wrote:What? :?
This.

Image
Funny. I noticed this the other day.

EDIT** Whoops. Didn't realize the pic would be that big, so I cropped it down.


Image



Seems someone on the staff kept confusing manga colors with the anime. . .ever so slightly, anyways.

Apparently it was colored the same way in Z. I also noticed the white hair cropped up with Gohan at one point on Kami tower during the build-up to the Cell Games.
Last edited by saiyanprimalforce on Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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