DBZKai comes to the UK

Discussion specifically regarding the "refreshed" TV version of DBZ created in Japan for its 20th anniversary, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
KingofWisdom
Regular
Posts: 563
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:35 pm
Location: Miami, Florida

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by KingofWisdom » Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:23 pm

Well, I'd be pretty surprised to see it uncut on a kid's channel.
"Those transformations insane,
They wanna turn up hours late and steal the show from the pros who had to die for the name." - Yamcha (DBWTF: Z-Rap 3)

"Over saturation is easy. Just drag the slider to the right and there you are: instant interest. And certainly, the majority of the public likes saturated color images. In fact, if you want to quickly create a popular image, simply over saturate the colors and increase the contrast. While you may not achieve a sophisticated image, you will achieve an image that will please a less demanding audience." - Alain Briot

User avatar
Fizzer
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1396
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:01 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by Fizzer » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:14 pm

I have wondered myself if the 9pm airings will be uncut, 9pm is the cut-off point for these things after all, but they're probably just reruns of the earlier episodes.

Subzero Ice
Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:24 pm

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by Subzero Ice » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:37 pm

90sDBZ wrote: Ocean fans will always use that CNX situation as an argument but they have no proof. Can you give me official proof that that ratings dropped when FUNi aired or even didn't climb? FUNi didn't stop it from being the No.1 show in the old sagas so it wouldn't in the Fusion saga either.
Actually, the head of programming at Turner broadcasting confirmed that they lost viewers due to the switch to Funimation from Ocean for the Fusion saga. So yes, the ratings did drop due to the Funimation dub. The Airwaves studios/Westwood studios produced Ocean dub of DBZ (DBZ episodes 108-276) had higher ratings than the Funimation dubbed DBZ episodes. From what I know, it is fair and accurate to say that the Ocean dub is more popular than the Funimation dub.

User avatar
VegettoEX
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 16381
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by VegettoEX » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:58 pm

That's correlation without necessarily causation, though. What else was going on at the time that switch happened? Were ratings down across the board for other shows? Was there a similar ratings drop on Cartoon Network US when the "Fusion Saga" stuff hit? Was it just that earlier episodes had higher ratings because it was new and exciting, and it would have dropped regardless?
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::

TestDemo
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:02 am

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by TestDemo » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:02 pm

Subzero Ice wrote:
90sDBZ wrote: Ocean fans will always use that CNX situation as an argument but they have no proof. Can you give me official proof that that ratings dropped when FUNi aired or even didn't climb? FUNi didn't stop it from being the No.1 show in the old sagas so it wouldn't in the Fusion saga either.
Actually, the head of programming at Turner broadcasting confirmed that they lost viewers due to the switch to Funimation from Ocean for the Fusion saga. So yes, the ratings did drop due to the Funimation dub. The Airwaves studios/Westwood studios produced Ocean dub of DBZ (DBZ episodes 108-276) had higher ratings than the Funimation dubbed DBZ episodes. From what I know, it is fair and accurate to say that the Ocean dub is more popular than the Funimation dub.
Mind posting a source for such a claim?

User avatar
90sDBZ
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1913
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:34 am
Location: UK

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by 90sDBZ » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:38 pm

Subzero Ice wrote:
90sDBZ wrote: Ocean fans will always use that CNX situation as an argument but they have no proof. Can you give me official proof that that ratings dropped when FUNi aired or even didn't climb? FUNi didn't stop it from being the No.1 show in the old sagas so it wouldn't in the Fusion saga either.
Actually, the head of programming at Turner broadcasting confirmed that they lost viewers due to the switch to Funimation from Ocean for the Fusion saga. So yes, the ratings did drop due to the Funimation dub. The Airwaves studios/Westwood studios produced Ocean dub of DBZ (DBZ episodes 108-276) had higher ratings than the Funimation dubbed DBZ episodes. From what I know, it is fair and accurate to say that the Ocean dub is more popular than the Funimation dub.
Where's the proof then? It sounds to me like you're just another Ocean fanboy who's making stuff up to defend their dub. If there was any truth in what you said it would have been posted in a dub argument years ago. Even if ratings did drop, which I seriously doubt, it would more likely have been from people who watched it on Cartoon Network and then couldn't watch the Fusion saga because they didn't get CNX. Then of course by the time CNX changed to Toonami and moved to the kids section where everyone could watch it, it would have been the Ocean dub again so people would have missed out on FUNi's dub. Both dubs have their fans no doubt but you have no way of knowing that Ocean is or isn't more popular or that FUNi isn't way more popular.

User avatar
VegettoEX
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 16381
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by VegettoEX » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:39 pm

C'mon, now. Let's not toss out that "fanboy defending their dub" nonsense, especially with regard to a post that was perfectly fine in every single way. Totally inappropriate.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::

User avatar
90sDBZ
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1913
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:34 am
Location: UK

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by 90sDBZ » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:42 pm

Well okay I apologise for that comment but it just gets on my nerves when people go posting stuff like that with no proof whatsoever and expect to be taken seriously.

User avatar
Sin
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 788
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:24 pm
Location: England

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by Sin » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:33 pm

Well whatever the case I wonder just how far Kix! researched into the show, did they even know about the different dubs or was it just an offer that they looked at and though 'Okay, let's do that'? I seem to get the feeling that they'd just go with whatever is cheapest and most convenient, especially when their shows are aimed at a young audience who might not even notice if the voices changed a bit, heck I didn't back in the day.

For this reason I think that whenever it is that Ocean dub becomes available, if it's a better deal than Funi's dub, they'll take it. What I wonder is, can another channel receive the license to air the Ocean dub whilst Kix! is airing the Funi dub?

User avatar
90sDBZ
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1913
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:34 am
Location: UK

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by 90sDBZ » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:04 am

Well as far as which dub is actually more popular does anybody remember that podcast from a few months back when Season 1 of the orange bricks got released here? It included an interview with the head of Manga UK and they discussed the release of the orange bricks and also discussed the different dubs. The head of Manga mentioned that every episode of Z was aired on TV and also mentioned how they went back and forth between the different dubs. Anyway he also talked about the feedback and said that although there had been a few complaining that they wanted the Ocean dub the majority said they actually preferred the FUNimation dub. And that's coming from a guy at the top of the UK anime industry. So going by this FUNi's dub could very well be more popular and that might be why Toei gave Kix that dub for Kai. Also bear in mind that Season 1 was the best selling anime on play.com when released so that could have influenced the decision too.

I'm pretty sure that Podcast was posted here on Kanzenshuu earlier this year. I'm not sure which one it is but it was definitely posted on the site so if anyone wants to help me verify which one it was that would be great.

User avatar
Solidus
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:00 am

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by Solidus » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:40 pm

Sin wrote:Well whatever the case I wonder just how far Kix! researched into the show, did they even know about the different dubs or was it just an offer that they looked at and though 'Okay, let's do that'? I seem to get the feeling that they'd just go with whatever is cheapest and most convenient, especially when their shows are aimed at a young audience who might not even notice if the voices changed a bit, heck I didn't back in the day.

For this reason I think that whenever it is that Ocean dub becomes available, if it's a better deal than Funi's dub, they'll take it. What I wonder is, can another channel receive the license to air the Ocean dub whilst Kix! is airing the Funi dub?
It's possible but it won't happen. Kix! are the only channel interested in anime in the UK nowadays. Kix! will probably pick up Ocean Kai once it's finished. At least I hope so because it wouldn't make sense otherwise. I'm hoping they are just using the Funi dub on a trial type basis because the broadcast schedule is very rushed and the picture quality is fairly poor. I don't know what Toei gave Csc Media but the quality of the picture seems worse than what Nicktoons broadcasted.

User avatar
TheBlackPaladin
I Live Here
Posts: 3545
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:05 pm

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:50 pm

Solidus wrote:
Sin wrote:Well whatever the case I wonder just how far Kix! researched into the show, did they even know about the different dubs or was it just an offer that they looked at and though 'Okay, let's do that'? I seem to get the feeling that they'd just go with whatever is cheapest and most convenient, especially when their shows are aimed at a young audience who might not even notice if the voices changed a bit, heck I didn't back in the day.

For this reason I think that whenever it is that Ocean dub becomes available, if it's a better deal than Funi's dub, they'll take it. What I wonder is, can another channel receive the license to air the Ocean dub whilst Kix! is airing the Funi dub?
It's possible but it won't happen. Kix! are the only channel interested in anime in the UK nowadays. Kix! will probably pick up Ocean Kai once it's finished. At least I hope so because it wouldn't make sense otherwise. I'm hoping they are just using the Funi dub on a trial type basis because the broadcast schedule is very rushed and the picture quality is fairly poor. I don't know what Toei gave Csc Media but the quality of the picture seems worse than what Nicktoons broadcasted.
Quite frankly, I was surprised that Kai even got a TV deal in the States. The way things are with the anime industry nowadays, there's almost no anime on TV. I thought Kai was gonna go straight to home release, and was pleasantly shocked to find out I was wrong.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

User avatar
KingofWisdom
Regular
Posts: 563
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:35 pm
Location: Miami, Florida

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by KingofWisdom » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:27 pm

I was sorta hoping it would stay off the TV, since edited dubs have a habit of damaging the "uncut" product. Due to human error or cheapness (in the case of redubbing), edits will find their way onto the release.
"Those transformations insane,
They wanna turn up hours late and steal the show from the pros who had to die for the name." - Yamcha (DBWTF: Z-Rap 3)

"Over saturation is easy. Just drag the slider to the right and there you are: instant interest. And certainly, the majority of the public likes saturated color images. In fact, if you want to quickly create a popular image, simply over saturate the colors and increase the contrast. While you may not achieve a sophisticated image, you will achieve an image that will please a less demanding audience." - Alain Briot

User avatar
DBwad
Newbie
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:29 am

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by DBwad » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:02 pm

Did Canada get a Kai broadcast?

User avatar
Super Sayian Prime
I Live Here
Posts: 2270
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:26 pm
Location: Hail

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:39 pm

DBwad wrote:Did Canada get a Kai broadcast?
Not officially. Some cable companies, and cities near US cities did get the CW broadcast but that's a US channel feed, not Canadian.
"I like the money it brings in, but Dragon Ball Heroes is the worst. That's actually the real reason I decided to start working on new material. I was afraid Bandai would make something irredeemably stupid like Super Saiyan 4 Broly." - Akira Toriyama, made up interview, 2013.

User avatar
Cure Dragon 255
I Live Here
Posts: 3584
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 5:23 pm

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:37 pm

Solidus wrote:
Sin wrote:Well whatever the case I wonder just how far Kix! researched into the show, did they even know about the different dubs or was it just an offer that they looked at and though 'Okay, let's do that'? I seem to get the feeling that they'd just go with whatever is cheapest and most convenient, especially when their shows are aimed at a young audience who might not even notice if the voices changed a bit, heck I didn't back in the day.

For this reason I think that whenever it is that Ocean dub becomes available, if it's a better deal than Funi's dub, they'll take it. What I wonder is, can another channel receive the license to air the Ocean dub whilst Kix! is airing the Funi dub?
It's possible but it won't happen. Kix! are the only channel interested in anime in the UK nowadays. Kix! will probably pick up Ocean Kai once it's finished. At least I hope so because it wouldn't make sense otherwise. I'm hoping they are just using the Funi dub on a trial type basis because the broadcast schedule is very rushed and the picture quality is fairly poor. I don't know what Toei gave Csc Media but the quality of the picture seems worse than what Nicktoons broadcasted.
Pop Girl Aired Pretty Cure and Mew Mew Power. But its also a channel affiliated to Kix because its owned by SCS Media.
AnimeMaakuo wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:38 am
Enjoy unboxing crap :thumbup:. Your continued support for crap will give us more crap for many years to come! :clap:.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

RazorX
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 7:24 pm

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by RazorX » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:30 am

90sDBZ wrote:
How can you defend Blue Water GT though? Adult Goku's voice for one thing. I mean he was obviously doing a poor impression of Kirby Morrow's Goku and even Ocean themselves have admitted that Kirby wasn't suited to the part so having an impersonation of an already unsuitable performance really doesn't sound right. Vegeta sounded like he had throat cancer and was an even worse Brian Drummond impression than Season 3 FUNi Sabat. The Gohan they used had no emotion in his voice and has nothing on Kyle Herbert. Just compare the scene of Piccolo's death in GT and you'll see what I mean.
Schemmel was an impression of Ian Corlett and Peter Kelamis, so the flak you're giving Jeramiah Yurk applies to Sean Schemmel as well.

Your point about Ocean using a new Goku goes in my favour and against you. It shows that Ocean care enough for authenticity that they are willing to take a fairly big risk by not casting a Goku they used for most of their episodes before, especially when he's willing and able to return, if they found someone they feel captures Goku's character as it is in the Japanese version better than what they have currently. Funimation are way too scared and cheap to get someone better than Schemmel, and if they tried I think they could. It shows Ocean cares more about Kai than Funi does. Heck, the reason Funimation got themselves a better Frieza is because the actress they used 'couldn't keep up with the lines' while Ocean got themselves a new Frieza from the start. Those 2 examples alone speak volumes about much more more care and attention Ocean are giving Kai than Funimation are.

Going back to Dragon Ball, Funimation didn't even care enough to get rid of their Tri-beam name change, while Blue Water correctly translated the attack to the Spirit Cannon and used that. Funi refused to get rid of Tri-beam even for their Kai dub, because they think they might 'alientate and lose' viewers and therefore lose money. Funny thing is, Funi used Spirit cannon in the title but called it the tri beam in the episodes, potentially confusing people because they managed to get themselves confused in all the name changes they'd done. These are just some of many, many examples to show how Funi disregards the authenticity of Dragon Ball because they think they'll make more money by doing so, even if the hardcore fans complain and point out their errors. I'm amazed they actually corrected their mispronunciation of Kaioken. It was 9 years after Ocean corrected the pronunciation of Kaioken. But, better late than never.

Anyway I thought Jeramiah did a good job as adult Goku, not as good as Kirby Morrow but still decent. His Kamehamehas were very powerful and blows Schemmel out of the water.

Blue Water's Gohan was nowhere near as good as Brad Swaile but he was certainly better than Kyle Hebert, Hebert simply cannot act, he's the worst among the Funi cast.
90sDBZ wrote: You've also just contradicted you're own point. Blue Water did make a stupid name change by changing General Rildo to General Lock while FUNi kept the original name. Let's not forget stupid lines in Blue Water's dub like Goku saying he was born on Earth.
I haven't contradicted anything, it's simply as case of you being unable to read. I knew you'd pick up on this because it's one of the rare occasions that Blue Water changed the name, so I said most of the time, not all of the time. And it's for a very minor character. Funimation have changed names of many major characters, let alone minor characters. Let's take the example of Hermit Crane. Needless to say Blue Water kept his original name but Funimaton were on a rampage so the changed his name to Shen. However they really shot themselves in the foot with that one, because later in the series an actual character named Shen appears, so Funimation changed his name to Hero, while Blue Water kept his original name. There's just so many examples showing Funimation's complete disregard for the Dragon Ball series while Ocean and Blue Water respect the original Dragon Ball series. It's one of many reasons why I respect Ocean & Blue Water and dislike Funimation.
90sDBZ wrote: Well you can call Schemmel unprofessional but he clearly wouldn't have been lying about what he said. Like you said he was stating his own opinion and coming from somebody that's been involved in the business as long as him I'm inclined to take it into account.
Aside from you cherry picking what you want to believe, there's already evidence to refute Schemmel's opinion. Everything we know so far about the Ocean dub points to it being more faithful than Funimation's dub. Since Schemmel was going on about how 'faithful' the Funimation dub was this time and being confronted by what is looking to be a more faithful dub than his, he lashed out unprofessionally. I believe the Ocean dub will be better than Funimation's dub and the more info that seems to be revealed about the Ocean dub, the more solid this belief becomes.
90sDBZ wrote: I actually know everything that's been revealed about Ocean's new dub for your information and have been following the Ocean topic for a long time. I know they're using a new Goku, I know McNeil is returning and that Drummond is meant to be too and that they're keeping to Japanese pronunciations. And I know that once again they're using replacement music which is why I really hope their dub doesn't air. The only music I can tolerate for DBZ is the original Japanese, Bruce Faulconer, Nathan Jonson or Shuki Levy and seeing as it will be none of them then it will most likely be recycled from other shows and will ruin the feel again like Megaman music did. And I also have reason to believe, based on whta's been revealed, that it will be a cheaply made dub I don't want on TV.
Funny how you slate the potential replacement music in Ocean's dub whilst ignoring that the Funimation dub itself is using replacement music. And a poorly scored repetitive replacement music at that. It has not been confirmed that Ocean are using replacement music but I really hope they are. I've already stated my opinion on the Kikuchi Kai score; it's rushed, poorly scored, very, very repetitive and at times downright inappropriate. I'd rather Ocean not use that.
90sDBZ wrote:The Ocean cast did cost more back then but that was way back when FUNi 1st started but FUNi had improved by the time the Westwood dub aired. And the Westwood dub was clearly rushed and low budget. If Ocean's actors were really paid so much then why did so many of them leave mid-series? Ian Corlett even admitted he left because he wasn't paid enough. And it was obvious that Ocean's standard had dropped greatly by the Trunks saga. If they were really being paid so much then they'd have made more of an effort with the voice acting. They couldn't even afford a different voice actor for Roshi so they had Terry Klassen just use his Krillin voice. The fact that FUNi had to pay Faulconer and his studio to produce new music for the show while Ocean just outright took already made music from other shows makes it a no-brainer that Ocean was cheaper.
So many? Most of the Saban Ocean cast stayed until the end of DBZ and were ready to dub GT. Ocean's top actors and actresses stayed until the end of DBZ. You're overstating those who left and giving the wrong impression as to why they left. But as a raving Funimation fanboy, I expect that. If you did any research at all, you'd know that those who left, left due to personal reasons which had nothing to do with the production values of the dub. Peter Kelamis left to focus on his comedy career. Saffron Henderson left due to her wedding which she tried to postpone but couldn't. Ian Corlett left during the Saban dubbing so any pay issues were down to Saban/Funi and Ocean of the time. Laliana Lindjberg left before the Westwood Ocean dub started.

Klassan's Roshi sounding like Krillin? You sure you seen the Ocean dub at all? His Roshi sounds nothing like his Krillin, I didn't even know he was voicing Roshi until I researched it. His take is more accurate than those preceding him, maybe that's why Ocean chose him.
90sDBZ wrote: FUNi's dub was also popular and brought in ratings while it aired. DBZ was Cartoon Network's No.1 show before the Westwood dub aired. I remember them taking a really long time to air the Android episodes. In this time we had Ocean Saiyan and Namek sagas and FUNi Ginyu, Freeza, Garlic Jr and Trunks sagas so obviously we had much more FUNi at that time and it was still the No.1 show on Cartoon Network. Even after the series had finished CNX focused most of its promotional material on the Freeza saga which was in FUNi dub. This is because of the huge popularity of that saga so don't go acting like FUNi's dub didn't get huge ratings too.
CNX had that nifty Frieza saga ad with the choir type music, but notice it had no voice acting from Funimation. CNX were trying to focus on the epicness of the Frieza saga without having the Funi voices ruining the ad.

DBZ was the no.1 show, but it became no.1 during the Saban Ocean dub episodes. The Funi dub simply rode on the Ocean dub's popularity.

Cartoon Network/CNX/Toonami are in the business to make money. The higher the number of viewers for a show, the higher the ratings, the higher they can charge for adspace and the more revenue they make. So it makes sense for them to broadcast the episodes which bring in the most ratings. After DBZ ended, Toonami's reruns were focused on the Cell and Buu episodes far more than the Saiyan and Frieza episodes. I can even remember that the half term (for those who don't know what half ter is, it's when school is closed for a week to kids) was focused on DBZ with the Cell saga episodes, meaning that during half term DBZ was on the whole day and the episodes chosen to being in the viewers at this critical time were Ocean dubbed; tried tested and loved Ocean episodes. Most of the reruns were of the Buu episodes, especially during the last year or so. During the months prior to Turner losing the rights to DBZ, they were heavily broadcasting the Cell and Buu episodes concurrently. Cell episodes took the morning slot, Buu episodes took the evening slot, the afternoon slot AFAIK was shared by the Cell and Buu episodes. Even before that, Toonami would mostly broadcast the Ocean dubbed episodes from Android saga onwards. The Saiyan and Frieza episodes also had reruns but nowhere near the extend of reruns that Ocean's Cell and Buu episodes had.

Remember when Toonami would broadcast an episode of Dagon Ball Z at 2am followed by an episode of Dragon Ball GT? Guess which episodes Toonami broadcasted even then, Majin Buu. They had from 9pm-10.30pm an episode of Dragon Ball, then Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT broadcasted and I remember the Z episodes were mostly from the Ocean dubbed ones.

So to me, the fact that they chose to rerun the Ocean dubbed episodes far more than the Funi ones show that the Ocean dub is more popular. Fans say that the Frieza saga has a stronger storyline than the Cell and Buu sagas, but the latter 2 sagas were enjoyed more and I'm certain that a major reason is due to a far more enjoyable dub by Ocean instead of Funimation.

90sDBZ wrote: I think the intro and outro is very concrete proof. It was very rare for them to use the Saban intro for Westwood episodes but with the FUNi fusion eps they consistently showed the Westwood intro AND outro for every single episode. You can't pretend that's a coincidence.
Actually, they did show the Funi intro and outro with the Funi dub but changed it. The likely reason for that was due to the Funi intro being longer than the Ocean intro and it toom time they could use for ads. They didn't want to start an episode without an intro so used Ocean's intro.

And it was not rare for them to use Saba's outro after a Westwood Ocean dubbed episode, at one stage they did it every other episode and I remember being annoyed by it, because whenever they played the Saban outro, they'd cut out the NEP (next episode preview), but they kept the NEP whenever they played the Ocean outro.
90sDBZ wrote:Also you forget that FUNi didn't ditch Ocean out of cheapness but because they actually COULDN'T afford to keep because DBZ had not yet become a big hit when they let them go. It took another 2 years after dubbing it for it to gain huge success when it finally aired on Cartoon Network and by then they had already had to ditch Ocean and Saban.
They claimed they couldn't afford Ocean so they used far cheaper imitations which severely lacked quality on their own and when compared to Ocean they were abysmal.

It was the Saban Ocean episodes that were hugely successful to CN ordered more episodes. Now instead of continuing with the quality cast, they went with dismal imitations to slash their costs, THAT is pure greed and complete disregard for the fans.
90sDBZ wrote:AB on the other hand ditched FUNi despite the show already being a hit. I call that pure greed and cheapness and disregard for fans.
I've had discussions with Funimation fans before, but that is one of the most unbelievably ignorant and downright idiotic statements I've seen.

Funi and Saban use a quality cast, the Ocean cast, from the start. The episodes dubbed by Ocean become a major hit, Funimation ditches the quality cast in favour of dirt cheap imitations, fans are outraged, Funimation gives them the middle finger and puts their hands on their ears singing lalala. AB Groupe notices the popularity of the Ocean dubbed episodes, they notice the fan outrage at the Ocean cast being dropped, they step in, hire the quality Ocean cast, the AB Ocean episodes become a massive hit, AB continues with the Ocean cast until the end of DBZ.

Clearly Funimation are the cheap bastards while AB Groupe gave the fans what they wanted, even though it cost them. If you think that AB are cheaper than Funi when it's as clear as day that Funi ditched the expensive cast while AB continued to hire the expensive cast, your ignorance is outstanding.

AB could've done what Funi did. Bring in Ocean to help make the episodes popular, then switch to a cheaper cast afterwards. But they didn't. They contined with Ocean because they aren't disgustingly cheap like Funimation are.

OR, AB could've used a dubbing studio closer to home, a studio in Europe, or in the UK. I'm sure a UK dubbing studio would've done a good job with DBZ, certainly better than Funi, but AB went all the way to Canada to get the cast because Ocean had already set a precedent. Fans wanted Ocean, AB gave them Ocean and for that, AB deserve the utmost gratitude of fans.
90sDBZ wrote: Well if that's the case with Ocean choosing the cheaper cast then what's to say they're not doing the same with their Kai dub?
Because some of the top voice actors from Vancouver have confirmed (or hinted) at their involvement with the Kai dub, obviously. You claimed you are following the developments with the Ocean dub and still felt the need to ask that....
90sDBZ wrote: How do you actually know when the European dubs were made? I clearly remember us being well into Westwood's Cell games saga by the time the Advert for the Super Battle in the World DVD aired.
Because the European English dubs were not initially made for the UK. I can remember there was talk among the fandom about another English dub made in Europe but only for the movies. Some of the things said about it were its usage of 'Son Goku' and the Japanese style titles and original Japanese music. That was years before the movies were released in the UK and back then it was (and still is) known as the 'Bridge' dub. I remember being very intrigued by this 'mysterious' Bridge dub and wanted to watch it, but couldn't find any clips whatsoever. It was released in the Netherlands long before the UK.
90sDBZ wrote:The fact is AB got cheaper.
I find it funny how you tried to give me flak for trying to pass off my opinions as facts and here you are, still trying to pass off your opinions as facts even after I've pointed out thats what you 've been doing in your previous posts.

I've already shown you that Funi were the cheap ones.

90sDBZ wrote: The Westwood dub was cheaper than FUNi's dub. If AB weren't cheap they wouldn't have given us those god-awful movies.
You make a comment about the Westwood dub and try to justify it using the completely unrelated movies dub? You really are grasping at straws at this point.

AB made the movies at a stage where they probably didn't think they'd be released in the UK and before they contracted Ocean for the series. If AB are so cheap, why didn't they hire those movie dub actors for the series?

It's a shame that AB dubbed the movies before they got Ocean for the series, because if they dubbed the movies after the series, chances are the would've used Ocean. And we've already seen how great Ocean's dubs of the first 3 movies are.
90sDBZ wrote:As far as I'm concerned AB Groupe are the anti-christ of the Dragonball franchise. It's because of those greedy people that we had to have replacement music in the Tenkaichi video game series. They contributed nothing to those games but because they held certain rights they decided to once again disregard the fans and charge ridiculously high prices for the music rights so we got stuck with replacement music. Yeah sounds real generous on AB's part. And again you're baselessly assuming that the majority agrees with your opinion of FUNi.
I think I know where you got the base for trying to blame AB for the music replacement in the games but I feel that it is wrong. A rep from Bandai confirmed during the Sparking series that it was too expensive for them to license the Japanese music internationally and that is due to the Japanese rights holders and their umbrelle organisation JASRAC, not AB Groupe. Whoever made that comment was probably trying to deflect the blame from Namco Bandai, but if Namco Bandai put out the money, we could have KIkuchi's music in the games internationally.

And if you still believe that AB are responsible for the lack of Kikuchi's music in the games, why'd the US versions have replaced music?
90sDBZ wrote: Ocean fans will always use that CNX situation as an argument but they have no proof. Can you give me official proof that that ratings dropped when FUNi aired or even didn't climb? FUNi didn't stop it from being the No.1 show in the old sagas so it wouldn't in the Fusion saga either.
It's common sense. No one's gonna give Toonami the episodes for free, which means that Turner paid twice for 2 sets of the exact same episodes, why didn't they continue with Funi for Fusion and go as normal with Ocean for Kid Buu? Probably because Funi put so many people off, Turner felt the need to put out the money for Ocean's Fusion saga and rerun it so much to try and get the lost viewers back. And they rerun the Ocean dubbed Fusion saga a lot before they broadcast new episodes with Kid Buu.

I actually didn't know that Ocean's Fusion returned until the Vegito episodes because I stopped watching DBZ due to that awful Funi dub, and I was (and still am) a strong Dragon Ball fan. I can remember some of my friends coming to me to ask what 'that shit' was when Funi's Fusion dub came. I had to explain to them it was the crappy American version. One of them said that Hercule's voice was grating and that Majin Buu sounded like 'a helium infested balloon' They stopped watching DBZ, but when the Ocean dub returned, I went back and told them and they were pretty happy and watched it, then went on to watch the Kid Buu saga, in full Ocean dub glory.
90sDBZ wrote: And I hope you Ocean fans get a DVD release so you can have your dub and we don't have to get stuck with it on TV.
Well I hope we do get a DVD release then I'd care less on which dub is broadcast, but I'd still by far want the Ocean dub broadcasted because the Funi dub fells wrong on UK TV.
90sDBZ wrote: I don't agree with all Schemmel says but that's no reason to disregard his comment completely. The Westwood dub of Z was terrible so there's a good chance Ocean Kai will be too. And of course McNeil will say his own dub is good.
Coming from someone who thinks the Funi dub was good? And of course you'd cherry pick what you want to agree with.

McNeil didn't slate the Funi dub, he didn't even acknowledge it, and he shouldn't either because he's involved in a much better dub. What he said was that Ocean's Kai dub is better than the dubs they did before, which he was involved in. No reason to disregard his comment because he's not comparing his dub with a competing dub (unlike Schemmel) he's comparing his most current dub with his previous dubs. It's not hard to see the difference.
90sDBZ wrote:You've just defended the Euro dub. I can no longer take you seriously. I mean seriously? "Let that child alone!"? "Big Green!"? Goku and Vegeta powering up and shouting Kamehameha? Karin being a girl?
You defend the Funimation dub and make the most absurd statements, so how can you expect to be taken seriously.

I'm not defending the faults of the European dub. Clearly English is not the actors' first language, what I'm saying is that some of their voices are better than the Funimation dub and overall their dubs are more tolerable because Funimation stuck in some horrible, terrible, absymal and did I mention absolutely detestable bands which are by far the worst 'music' ever used for Dragon Ball (and trust me, to take that place from Menza means they really must be terrible beyond belief) rendering the Funi dubs completely unwatchable, at least for me.

Funi had good music for their movie 13 dub though. If only they used Johnson for all their movies I might not be criticising them so much.

RazorX
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 7:24 pm

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by RazorX » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:50 am

Subzero Ice wrote:
Actually, the head of programming at Turner broadcasting confirmed that they lost viewers due to the switch to Funimation from Ocean for the Fusion saga. So yes, the ratings did drop due to the Funimation dub. The Airwaves studios/Westwood studios produced Ocean dub of DBZ (DBZ episodes 108-276) had higher ratings than the Funimation dubbed DBZ episodes. From what I know, it is fair and accurate to say that the Ocean dub is more popular than the Funimation dub.
Thanks for confirming what I already believed to be true.
90sDBZ wrote:Where's the proof then? It sounds to me like you're just another Ocean fanboy who's making stuff up to defend their dub.
I thought you said you were following the developments with the Ocean dub? If you were you'd know that Subzero Ice was the first person to hint/reveal the existence of Ocean's Kai dub. He has subsequently provided us with a bit of info about it and even corrected Toei themselves as to when CSC Media would be broadcasting Kai. Toei's site claimed November. Subzero Ice said no it's actually December. An magazine claimed January. A fan dug out Kix! schedule and found Kai for January, he dug deeper and found Kai would be broadcast in December. Kix! ended up broadcasting Kai in December, like Subzero Ice said. Subzero Ice even knew Scott McNeil was returning for Kai months before Scott announced it himself. Obviously Subzero Ice has insider information.

User avatar
Mewzard
I Live Here
Posts: 2004
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:02 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by Mewzard » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:23 am

RazorX wrote:
Subzero Ice wrote:
Actually, the head of programming at Turner broadcasting confirmed that they lost viewers due to the switch to Funimation from Ocean for the Fusion saga. So yes, the ratings did drop due to the Funimation dub. The Airwaves studios/Westwood studios produced Ocean dub of DBZ (DBZ episodes 108-276) had higher ratings than the Funimation dubbed DBZ episodes. From what I know, it is fair and accurate to say that the Ocean dub is more popular than the Funimation dub.
Thanks for confirming what I already believed to be true.
90sDBZ wrote:Where's the proof then? It sounds to me like you're just another Ocean fanboy who's making stuff up to defend their dub.
I thought you said you were following the developments with the Ocean dub? If you were you'd know that Subzero Ice was the first person to hint/reveal the existence of Ocean's Kai dub. He has subsequently provided us with a bit of info about it and even corrected Toei themselves as to when CSC Media would be broadcasting Kai. Toei's site claimed November. Subzero Ice said no it's actually December. An magazine claimed January. A fan dug out Kix! schedule and found Kai for January, he dug deeper and found Kai would be broadcast in December. Kix! ended up broadcasting Kai in December, like Subzero Ice said. Subzero Ice even knew Scott McNeil was returning for Kai months before Scott announced it himself. Obviously Subzero Ice has insider information.
Except his "confirmation" comes at the lack of any actual evidence (like an interview or something). Possible insider info or not, I'd rather see something tangible.

I know you're an Ocean Fan...but your post was almost entirely dragging the Funi dub, voice actors, music, and company through the mud while praising the Ocean dub.

Opinion's opinion, but there's a point where the horse you're beating is dead and rotting.

As amazing as it is, both companies have had their good points and their bad points. Funi made a very large amount of mistakes early in their dub, and have fixed most of them for Kai (if most of your problems now are a few old hold over dub terms and the occasional old US pronunciation, then it's not that bad).

Now, I can't speak for Jeramiah as Goku (as my Ocean experience extends to the Z portion of the series), but Kirby Morrow was an awful Goku. He's not a bad actor (far from it), but it was the wrong role for him. His serious Goku delivery isn't half bad, but his silly Goku sounds rather...unnatural is the best way I can put it. Like he hadn't ever spoke in that manner in his life until about five minutes before getting into the booth. Not the best follow up to Peter Kelamis' performance.

Brad Swaile, I love as a voice actor. Light, Amuro (rougher back then, but I've still enjoyed my recent re-watch of Mobile Suit Gundam), good stuff. The complaint isn't with him, but your comment on Kyle Hebert. He's not a terrible voice actor; especially not now.

This comes back to how the Funi cast differs from the Ocean cast. The Ocean Cast already had quite an acting pool when it started a mostly solid dub with the misfortune of the problems of that era (badly done scripts, censorship, altered music, etc), but the Funi cast were a bunch of people who had to start learning how to voice act on the fly. Sure, that meant Season 3 was noticeably worse from where Ocean left off (as a kid, I wondered what the Hell happened to everyone's voices), but as time went on, they got better. Even under many of the same constraints that the prior dub had, the dub got better over time as the actors stopped imitating voices unnatural to their own and started learning how to properly voice act. And the actors didn't stop getting better during the course of DBZ, they kept growing over the last decade. Coming into Kai, they now had more seasoned voice actors who knew how to act, the music Japan sent them, much more accurately adapted scripts, better voice direction. An Ocean Kai would most likely be excellent, I don't doubt it. But, they aren't going to be able to make as drastic an improvement simply because they started off higher than the Funi dub ever did (far higher).

The man who voiced the narrator of Dragon Ball Z and Teen Gohan back then isn't the same actor who voices Sousuke Aizen and Kamina now. The man has improved, and there's little doubt of that.

As for whether or not the Ocean or Funi dub will be better? We don't know which will be better. From what little we do know, we know Ocean will be fixing a few pronunciations (which can be a good thing, though Scott McNeil seemed displeased), but if that's all the difference, then it won't be that much of an improvement. Like Funi, they replaced some actors, and they should be for the better, but until we see this dub in action, all we can do is hope for a good dub (Fan of one or the other, we should all want good dubs...). That said, given how faithful the Funi dub was for the most part, I can't see the comment stemming from "Jealousy due to a superior competing product". That's a rather terrible way to view the man. Maybe at the time (if you're recall, this was a rather long time ago), they were considering doing some of the edits he mentioned, so he commented on something an actor let slip. And then, things change, and it's no longer relevant. But, I tend to go with that explanation over slandering the guy over what he said (which may have had some merit either then or now).

As for the replacement track, you know he meant a non-Toei produced track. Funi couldn't help that the Yamamoto scandal occurred and that Toei's replacement may or may not have been ideal. But, if your so called "Faithful Ocean Dub" is as faithful as you say, then they wouldn't create their own music track. That would be unfaithful to the product itself. At that point, you might as well grab more Mega Man music.

Peter Kelamis was also fun as Rolf from Ed, Edd n Eddy (I miss that show). But as for Klassan as Roshi...you couldn't tell he also voiced Krillin? It's actually rather clear to me. He was in a similar place as his Krillin voice, but he certainly added a bit of rasp to his voice. Honestly, it sounds like how his Krillin might sound as an old man.

As for the ad, maybe they didn't want to remind of the inconsistent voices, or felt the visuals sold the arc well enough for any fan, regardless of what dub they liked. It seems rather childish to assume that an add with the Funi voices would "Ruin it", and I doubt any of the ad guys would have thought that either. And Dragon Ball would have been popular regardless of which dub started it. Dragon Ball has experienced changing dubs before, and has survived questionable quality dubs elsewhere in the world as well. Dragon Ball seems to succeed pretty much everywhere, so I honestly doubt one dub would have cost viewership that much.

Those arcs reaired probably because they were more popular arcs. Super Saiyans? the threats of Cell and Buu? Fusion? Absorption? Exciting times for a kid. And remember, Half of the Saiyan/Freeza episodes were ALSO Ocean episodes (and I would argue were superior to the later Ocean Dub). The Buu saga most commonly reaired at it's last year and next to GT? That's not a surprise, it was the new thing. As the Funi dub went on, later season reairings became more common on Toonami from what I recall. And nonstop Funi dub did not kill viewership. Dragon Ball was Toonami's #1 show from beginning to end, and a voice cast change didn't change that.

They were a big drop in quality when the dub first started airing...but like I said, they got better. I would argue now with Kai, Funi surpassed Ocean's prior efforts in terms of a quality dub. Will Ocean take back the title come their Kai? Could be, but a rough Season three eventually led to us getting a great dubbing company with a high quality in house cast that has brought many great series to the English speaking world when other companies have gone. I thank Funi for that. The Ocean guys were good, but if this brought us so many wonderful talents into the voice acting world, I won't complain.

Once again, the issue is, Funi's dub still succeeded, and still was beloved by many once they got over the change in voices (and many others came afterwards enjoying it despite missing out on the Ocean Dub). You act like the Funi dub was a punishment to kids when most didn't mind, or overcame their initial misgivings to enjoy the series they loved (and eventually growing fond of the voices). In any case, those that did give them a chance saw the voices grew better as they dropped the imitations and became better actors, like I said earlier. Funi did take the cheap way out, but the cheap way lead to them becoming one of the most prominent anime studios in North America (in an economy that has killed many giants), and gave us people that became great talents, so I can't fault them that badly.

Huh, didn't know that about the music. Too bad, I liked the music used in the original versions.

And Chris Rager is a FANTASTIC Mr. Satan. The voice fits the man to a T. You keep mentioning how people were so bothered, but while I recall being initially annoyed, it didn't take long for me to get over it, and most people I talked Dragon Ball Z with didn't even bring up the change, all they cared about was enjoying the show they loved, and the voice change ended up not affecting most of them. Not saying no one was bothered by it, of course. But there were a large number of people who either liked the change, didn't care one way or another, or didn't hate it enough to eventually be won over. If people were that bothered, CN would have found a way to get back the old voice cast for Toonami for their cash cow. But, DBZ didn't change from that position.

I'd love a DVD since it won't air over here on TV. I don't mind owning both. But, whhy would it feel wrong? You still had a decent number of Funi episodes air over in the UK, and you got the Orange Bricks, and you'll be getting Funi's Kai over there too apparently. It must not feel too wrong to the people who air the material.

Schemmel didn't comment on the quality of the performances, just things he might have overheard at a con. I saw a vid on youtube of Scott McNeil and Sean Schemmel sharing a panel together this year, and they didn't seem to be bashing one another's DB work, they just had fun together. If the actors can be peaceful, why can't the fans?

I would say the unnatural flow of trying to read scripts and perform in a language you're not particularly good at outweighs bad music choices in terms of problems.

Look, I don't hate the Ocean Dub, but you clearly hate the Funimation Dub, and really can't get passed that fact. You can defend the dub you like without shoving Funi into the mud and stomping it further in.
RIDER KIIIIIIICK!

User avatar
90sDBZ
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1913
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:34 am
Location: UK

Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by 90sDBZ » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:17 pm

@RazorX

Schemmel did start out as an impression of those 2 but has since developed his voice to sound like his own unique performance. Blue water Goku on the other hand never improved his voice and always sounded like a fake Kirby Morrow. And at least Schemmel was impersonating some actors that were suitable to the role and still pulled off a voice that suited Goku. Yurk on the other hand impersonated a performance that never suited the character to begin with. Ask any fan. Most Ocean fans will even admit that Kirby was a poor Goku so that makes Yurk even worse.

My point about Ocean using a new Goku is simple. Kirby didn't suit the role so they ditched him. Sean Schemmel did so they kept him. And for all you know the new Ocean Frieza could suck so using him as an example is pretty weak. Same goes for the new Goku. You can't complement what you haven't yet heard.

Anyway as far as all that name change stuff goes it's pointless getting into an argument about that. Both dubs did plenty of name changing/attack name changing. I mean FUNi had Instant Transmission and Ocean/Blue Water had Instant Translocation. In fact Ocean started with Instant Transmission but later changed to Translocation. We could argue about that forever because both dubs are very guilty of it. The fact is most fans that watched on Toonami don't care about Japanese names anyway and many even prefer those english names. Anyway we're not arguing about accuracy to the original because in many people's eyes that doesn't matter. We're arguing about the overall quality of the dubs.

It doesn't matter if Yurk's kamehamehas were powerful sounding. If the voice sounds wrong to begin with then sounding powerful doesn't make up for it. And Sean does sound very powerful when shouting. Just listen to the old Kai dub reveal trailer.

Everything about the Westwood dub felt recycled and half-assed. Most of the performances were directly recycled from other shows. For example Kirby Morrow used the same voice for Goku that he does for virtually all of his other characters from other shows. McNeil couldn't do his old Piccolo any more so used his Wolverine voice. Bulma's actress used her Kitty voice from Xmen Evo. Brad Swaile used his Nightcrawler voice. Android 16 sounded abyssal. Android 18's actress was clearly just reading words from a script with no emotion. Terry Klassen's characters all sounded the same and I remember hearing Dabura's exact same voice in some other show too, maybe Transformers or something. Super Buu in Ocean was a very poor impression of his brilliant FUNi voice. The voice sounded somewhat similar but the scream was a joke compared to FUNi Super Buu who sounded both crazy and intimidating.

And the music. The damn music. If they had just used the Japanese music or Shuki Levy music then I might have been able to tolerate the dub. But the music they did use was the most boring, repetitive and soulless load of trash I've ever had to listen to. It made DBZ feel like a generic kids show and made me want to fall asleep whenever I heard it. They would repeat the same few tracks every episode with no unique character/event music or anything. It did improve in the Fusion saga but by then it was too little too late. They had already ruined half the series. And it still didn't measure up to FUNi's Faulconer music or the Japanese music.

Well say what you want about Herbert but I feel he did a great job. Especially when he delivered the line "Fight you. I wanna kill you". The Blue Water Gohan was nothing compared to either Kyle Herbert or Brad Swaile.

You also seem to be cherry picking what you want to believe. There's nothing to suggest that Schemmel was lying or paranoid about Ocean dub being better. That's pure conjecture that you've brought into the argument. I'm going with what's obvious. I'm not saying Schemmel is definitely right but it is a possibility. And I'm not just basing that on what he says, but also my painful memories of the Westwood dub.

FUNi's Kai may be using replacement music but at least it was at some point intended for the franchise. For all we know Ocean are using that terrible Megaman music again which turns DBZ into a boring disaster.

Even the voice actors that stayed on for the Westwood dub couldn't do the same performance. When Vegeta went Majin, this was Drummond's time to shine. His time to recapture that epic evil performance from the Saban dub. But it just didn't happen.

Are you sure you've heard Klassen's Roshi? Just go back and watch the 1st episode of the Westwood dub, Goku's special technique for an example. When Roshi finds out his sunglasses are missing and starts shouting I originally thought it was Krillin shouting. No change in voice whatsoever. Just terrible acting. And he sounds nothing like the Japanese Roshi either. In all honesty Blue Water Roshi did a better job. I actually re-watched that episode on Youtube a few years back and the comments were mostly negative. Some even genuinely mistook it for a parody video.

Once again you're the one cherry picking what you want to believe. There's nothing to suggest that CNX were trying to hide the voice acting. The obvious reason for the silence would be for dramatic effect like in many trailers of movies/shows. It's a known cliche for promos/trailers to do that so it's no excuse.

And again you're just believing what you want to. You have no ratings or figures to give me to prove that Ocean was more popular. And you have no proof that FUNi's dub were riding on Ocean's success. It's just that you're an Ocean fan and as an Ocean fan you naturally want to believe that.

And I can clearly remember the Frieza saga getting shown more than any other saga. I remember it winning in the vote-a-saga marathons on many occasions. I even remember right after the original DB got cancelled that Toonami had a period of showing triple-bills of DBZ throughout every day and guess what saga they showed the most of. The Frieza saga. I do remember the last month or so before DBZ got taken off. Toonami senselessly repeated the first half of the Imperfect Cell saga and showed nothing else. This couldn't have had anything to do with popularity though because these episodes had minimal action. The only fight they would show would literally be Piccolo vs Imperfect Cell and they would keep restarting the saga for some odd reason right before reaching Piccolo vs 17. Do you mean to tell me that these mostly boring episodes are the most popular in the series? If Ocean was that popular they would have at least re-ran the Saiyan/Namek sagas some more.

I have reason to believe that Toonami had lost the rights to air the FUNi licensed episodes. This includes the Saban Ocean episodes and the FUNi episodes themselves. All they would show is those boring Imperfect Cell episodes. If it was down to popularity they would still have been showing the Saban dub episodes. I think the reason it got cancelled is because all they were allowed to show was those awful Westwood episodes and they weren't good enough to keep the ratings up. Popularity clearly had nothing to do with those late airings. Believe otherwise if you chose to.

Yet again you're cherry picking your beliefs. The FUNi intro isn't even long. In fact it's equal in length to Ocean's intro save for 1 second. Honestly that was a weak argument.

When FUNi's Fusion saga 1st aired from the 1st episode they used Ocean's intro. Only during the 1st re-run of FUNi's Fusion saga did they slip up once or twice and use FUNi's intro. They were showing Ocean's intro every single episode during the 1st run and this lasted for weeks. That's just too consistent to argue with.

Lets be honest here for a minute. The vast majority of fans watching on CN were kids. Most of them couldn't care less which dub we got. I bet most didn't even know anything about anime or that the show was from Japan. It was only a minority that cared about Ocean leaving. This is proven by the fact that the older fans who cared about dubs would have been watching the show on when it was on syndication and those fans simply weren't enough to turn a profit. On Cartoon Network kids were watching and continued watching despite Ocean leaving and they were more than enough to turn a profit. FUNi knew that their dub was pleasing the majority of their audience, which was kids, so they saw no need to switch back to Ocean. It wouldn't make a difference either way to the kids. It was DBZ and they loved it no matter which of the 2 dubs was used. You talk like all you hardcore Ocean fans are the majority but in fact the majority is neutral and the minority, like us, fight about dubs.

AB knew that the show would stay a hit even if they took the cheap route by returning to Ocean. They were still pleasing the majority because once again, the majority is neutral to the dubs and only cared about getting more DBZ.

Ocean might be using some of their top actors but we still don't know all of the castings or if they will take the cheap route and use Megaman music again.

Both AB and FUNi were cheap at times. It's the truth. The purpose of a business is to make money. The only difference is that FUNi's dub was fine with the majority while the Big Green dub was simply too bad for even the kids to overlook.

My comment wasn't purely about Westwood's dub but more of an example of AB's cheapness in general.

They brought back the Ocean dub for consistency's sake. That's all.

Using your friends as an example is a weak argument. They are a small number of people that contribute to less that 0.1% in the overall ratings. Several of my friends ahve said they stopped watching after the Trunks saga because of the change in voices and music

FUNi's dub feels great on UK TV and should have been what we had all along. Westwood Ocean dub just felt wrong in general.

Schemmel didn't even mention his own dub in his comment. He didn't say it was terrible compared to FUNimation's version. He just said terrible.

Anyway you can bash FUNi's music choices if you want. Everyone has different musical taste. I personally love Faulconer's score. FUNi's newer releases allow the Japanese score anyway.

Anyway you have yet to provide me with genuine proof that Ocean was more popular. And you also seem to have ignored my previous post about Manga UK's comment. Here it is again anyway
90sDBZ wrote:Well as far as which dub is actually more popular does anybody remember that podcast from a few months back when Season 1 of the orange bricks got released here? It included an interview with the head of Manga UK and they discussed the release of the orange bricks and also discussed the different dubs. The head of Manga mentioned that every episode of Z was aired on TV and also mentioned how they went back and forth between the different dubs. Anyway he also talked about the feedback and said that although there had been a few complaining that they wanted the Ocean dub the majority said they actually preferred the FUNimation dub. And that's coming from a guy at the top of the UK anime industry. So going by this FUNi's dub could very well be more popular and that might be why Toei gave Kix that dub for Kai. Also bear in mind that Season 1 was the best selling anime on play.com when released so that could have influenced the decision too.

I'm pretty sure that Podcast was posted here on Kanzenshuu earlier this year. I'm not sure which one it is but it was definitely posted on the site so if anyone wants to help me verify which one it was that would be great.
There's my evidence. Now where's yours? Also I suggest you go on Youtube and watch videos of both dubs and see which is generally more liked.

Also, Subzero Ice is clearly an Ocean fan so is a biased source to go by. Being an Ocean fan of course he's going to inform you of updates about the dub and of course he's going to say it sounds good. He's also been wrong about some stuff. He claimed that Ocean's dub was airing in December yet it didn't. And he's also making claims about viewing figures from 10 years ago with no evidence at all. I think its clear he's just out to promote the Ocean dub, through both truth and lies.

With the orange brick sales and the comments by the head of Manga UK you can't deny that FUNi's dub is popular.

Post Reply