Kai or Z?

Discussion specifically regarding the "refreshed" TV version of DBZ created in Japan for its 20th anniversary, including individual threads for each episode.

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MysticVegeta
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Kai or Z?

Post by MysticVegeta » Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:52 am

Which do you prefer?

I could be a bit bias, as I am a firm supporter of Operation Moonfall. Their goal being to bring Majora's Mask to the 3DS with a complete texture overhaul, so I like things that are more pleasing to the eye.

I like Kai more for a few reasons.

1) It looks better.
Not that Z looks bad, but it was animated in like, the late 90s? It's such an eyesore compared to Kai.

2) Freeza doesn't sound like a granny, and I wasn't confused with his gender.
I'm sure we all prefer this over Z's Freeza.

3) Kid Gohan actually has his own voice.
His voice in Z was literally the same as Kid Goku's.

4) The theme.
Dragon Soul, is the best opening to anything Dragon Ball related. Ever.

5) It fixes some of Z's dub mistakes/Is more canon.
OVER 9,000!!! Was replaced with OVER 8,000!!! though, I like the former more.

I don't understand the hate.

Discuss!
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Blade » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:40 am

MysticVegeta wrote:1) It looks better.
Not that Z looks bad, but it was animated in like, the late 90s? It's such an eyesore compared to Kai.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here - Kai uses the same animation for the most part, with the ocasional re-animated frame, which I and many others, believe to be poorly done and of inferior quality to the original animation. That's subjective of course, but I posted a topic about it here: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 16&t=25124
MysticVegeta wrote:2) Freeza doesn't sound like a granny, and I wasn't confused with his gender.
I'm sure we all prefer this over Z's Freeza.
I dunno - I think Greg Ayres is very over-rated as Freeza. A lot of people seem to dig him in the role simply because he's not a female or Linda Young. I actually think that the crazed intensity that Young brought to the role actually helped hammer home the impression of a psychopathic super villain, something that Funimation's adaptation of Z decided to go with. Whether or not they were allowed the license to take the role in a different direction is another matter, I know a lot of people on here are very touchy about it. The Japanese version actually has the same voice actor as Z did, Ryūsei Nakao, which I don't think Ayres does a great job of capturing through his performance, so in terms of the new voice being more faithful to the original, gender aside, I'm not really convinced by the argument.
MysticVegeta wrote:3) Kid Gohan actually has his own voice.
His voice in Z was literally the same as Kid Goku's.
I don't really have any problem with the role being re-cast, I just find Clickenbeard's voice annoying. I don't really rate her as a voice actor, and I think Funimation could have definately done better than to casti her as Luffy in One Piece. She's obviously highly rated by the guys calling the shots at Funimation these days.
MysticVegeta wrote:4) The theme.
Dragon Soul, is the best opening to anything Dragon Ball related. Ever.
It's main motif is a rip off of Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku. Like so many things about Kai, it's just a regurgitation of something else in the franchise.
MysticVegeta wrote:5) It fixes some of Z's dub mistakes/Is more canon.
OVER 9,000!!! Was replaced with OVER 8,000!!! though, I like the former more.
The English dub is definitely closer to the original and features less dialogue localisation, which is great from a purist's point of view.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by sintzu » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:51 am

Kai for :

1- Faster story without the filler

2- New english dub that sounds better and followes the manga a lot better then the Z dub

3- It's a true HD remaster and is in 4:3
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by JEFFMAN219 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:17 am

I like kai over Z for the reasons stated below

1) Kai has a better and more faithful English dub.

2) Kai cuts out the boring filler e.g Goku and Frieza just standing around for a whole episode.

3) The voice actors for the dub have gotten way better.

4) Kai is probably the only way you will be able to get dragon ball z in 4:3 format.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:27 am

MysticVegeta wrote:1) It looks better.
Not that Z looks bad, but it was animated in like, the late 90s? It's such an eyesore compared to Kai.
More like early '90s, actually. But like Blade says, Kai almost entirely re-uses the same footage, so... um, yeah, you're still getting the same early '90s animation either way. :P

I certainly don't dislike Kai. I'm just more indifferent to it, even though I like the idea behind it. Maybe it's because it came out around the same time as the Dragon Boxes, and I can't afford to buy/don't have room for absolutely everything, I'd rather just stick with the original. And don't get me wrong. I think Toei got extremely lazy in the Cell and Boo arcs in Z, stretching material out rather than coming up with new stuff, making the pacing almost unbearable. I'm watching early DB episodes right now for the first time, and I am just amazed at how much more creative they were with the source material early on, and how much better the pacing was. Some episodes didn't even have recaps, instead going for an original teaser before the title cards. But then Toei's most egregious method of padding out an episode became including a several-minute-long recap before every episode so they wouldn't have to make as much episode. Gaaaaah!
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Duo » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:21 pm

I dislike the English dub of Z and I dislike 90% of all filler in Z. Audio-wise, the Japanese version of Z is my favorite side of the production.

Overall Kai wins, but I'd struggle with saying that more if I hadn't gotten my hands on all the Kikuchi soundtrack(s) for the series/movies.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Flame Dragon » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:47 am

Kai all the way!
I DESPISE Filler! I hate filler episodes of EVERY anime with a passion!

I think filler is a plague and should die as an archaic practice.
Every anime i watch i avoid the filler as much as i can, i think it ruins the pacing, it's unfunny, it creates plot holes and most important IT WASTES YOUR TIME!

I do admit there are some good fillers once in a blue moon (the driving school filler was great!), but the bad episodes just outweight the good!

I just hate the idea. It's such a waste of time, the characters learn nothing from the events in filler episodes, there is no plot or character development, or if there is development like the Gohan training episodes in the Saiyan saga, the characters will forget about what they learned on the canon episodes.
I went through all the DBZ filler as a kid because i didn't know any better, and god sometimes the drop in the quality of the episodes was so noticeable that even i knew something was wrong.
The only fillers i approve of are extended fightning scenes (if they are good and not repetitive) all the rest are useless junk.

In fact, pretty much all of my favourite animes of all time are fillerless ones (Death Note, FMA Brotherhood, DBZ Kai)

To me, just the cutting of fillers in Kai makes it worth it. The HD Remastering, new improved english dubs, the new opening and eyecatches etc. are all AWESOME!
But the filler cut is the most important feature to me.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by TheAldella » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:50 am

Flame Dragon wrote:Kai all the way!
I DESPISE Filler! I hate filler episodes of EVERY anime with a passion!

I think filler is a plague and should die as an archaic practice.
Every anime i watch i avoid the filler as much as i can, i think it ruins the pacing, it's unfunny, it creates plot holes and most important IT WASTES YOUR TIME!

I do admit there are some good fillers once in a blue moon (the driving school filler was great!), but the bad episodes just outweight the good!

I just hate the idea. It's such a waste of time, the characters learn nothing from the events in filler episodes, there is no plot or character development, or if there is development like the Gohan training episodes in the Saiyan saga, the characters will forget about what they learned on the canon episodes.
I went through all the DBZ filler as a kid because i didn't know any better, and god sometimes the drop in the quality of the episodes was so noticeable that even i was knew something was wrong.
The only fillers i approve of are extended fightning scenes (if they are good and not repetitive) all the rest are useless junk.

In fact, pretty much all of my favourite animes of all time are fillerless ones (Death Note, FMA Brotherhood, DBZ Kai)

To me, just the cutting of fillers in Kai makes it worth it. The HD Remastering, new improved english dubs, the new opening and eyecatches etc. are all AWESOME!
But the filler cut is the most important feature to me,
I have to agree, really. YYH was great in terms of not having any filler episodes, but the pace could drag a bit from it. But I do appreciate a good filler arc when I can find one. (G-B arc in One Piece)
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Flame Dragon » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:56 am

I have to agree, really. YYH was great in terms of not having any filler episodes, but the pace could drag a bit from it. But I do appreciate a good filler arc when I can find one. (G-B arc in One Piece)
I'd say i wouldn't mind a One Piece Kai, only instead of cutting filler, improve the pacing.
That's the problem, if you have filler the anime has good pacing (Naruto), if you have little to no filler the pacing sucks ass (One Piece).

Just goes to show how archaic and flawed this system is, the japanese tv system should be reworked and animes should come in seasons like american shows.
In the end, all that filler does is hurt the end product.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Blade » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:03 am

Flame Dragon wrote:I'd say i wouldn't mind a One Piece Kai, only instead of cutting filler, improve the pacing.
There's a fan project called 'One Pace' which seeks to do exactly this. It'd be against forum rules for me to link to it, due to the illegal nature of what they're doing, but I'm sure you can look it up yourself.

But I agree, since they've decided to do One Piece at (more or less) a one-episode-per-chapter-of-manga pacing, the series has became un-watchable at times. For me, it soured Marineford and made Thriller Bark, Enies Lobby, Fishman Island and Punk Hazard incredibly tedious to watch.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Ajay » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:36 am

Blade wrote:
Flame Dragon wrote:I'd say i wouldn't mind a One Piece Kai, only instead of cutting filler, improve the pacing.
There's a fan project called 'One Pace' which seeks to do exactly this. It'd be against forum rules for me to link to it, due to the illegal nature of what they're doing, but I'm sure you can look it up yourself.

But I agree, since they've decided to do One Piece at (more or less) a one-episode-per-chapter-of-manga pacing, the series has became un-watchable at times. For me, it soured Marineford and made Thriller Bark, Enies Lobby, Fishman Island and Punk Hazard incredibly tedious to watch.
There's been a lot of fan projects popping up that cut all the filler out. Someone is doing Naruto currently as well as producing a 'remaster' of sorts. It's pretty impressive from what I've seen. Absolutely zero dotcrawl and rainbowing - it's really nice. Such a shame when a fan project is better looking than an official release.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:09 am

Z save for the Namek/Freeza Saga and certain parts of the Cell Saga for aesthetic reasons.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Looneygamemaster » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:44 am

You know, before I got the Dragon Boxes, I would have said Z. But now that I've watched Z in full, I'm not so sure.

I'd have to watch Kai in full, I guess. If it seems kind of a half-hearted and apathetic attempt...well, Z was a half-hearted and apathetic adaptation on the whole. I wonder if this isn't a case where being bad somehow cancels out the bad already there and makes it good.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:13 pm

The only superior thing in DBZ is the music, but Yamamoto's music in Kai is still great. So, it's Kai for me, but Z when I want to see a favorite moment (usually).
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by RocktheDragon » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:30 pm

The award would have to go to Kai. The major benefits I have with this iteration of the series is 1) No filler!, 2) Better English voice cast, 3) New intro and ending song sequences which I really enjoy, 4) Decent Japanese voice cast.

The major benefits of the original Z anime are 1) Best audio recording of the Japanese voice cast, 2) some memorable filler, 3) nostalgic fondness of source material. So basically if I'm in a mood to take my time with my series I'll shoot for Z and if I just want to see the major (i.e. manga components) I'll go with Kai.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:31 pm

Kai, a thousand times Kai. I only watch Z for the Japanese dub.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by ABED » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:45 pm

I actually think that the crazed intensity that Young brought to the role actually helped hammer home the impression of a psychopathic super villain, something that Funimation's adaptation of Z decided to go with.
I don't hear psychopath, I hear some old lady trying to act tough., and not fitting the image.

Kai for American voice acting and pacing, but Z for Japanese voice acting and music.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by TheGmGoken » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:59 pm

Kai for Korean and English.

Z for JPN audio.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Mystic Buu » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:05 pm

Z.Classic Japanese dub.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Mewzard » Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:25 am

Kai for the Dub, Z for the Sub, it's fairly simple.
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