Kai or Z?

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Rockman X
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Rockman X » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:06 pm

ABED wrote:I never said anything about Freeza needing to sound intimidating. Freeza's gentlemanly and often polite exterior is supposed to contrast with his brutal and violent nature.
lol he's a horned devil,i'd expect him to be evil&intimidating.

I guess you see Freeza as more of a katz from courage the cowardly dog type of villain but i just don't see Freeza like that.. blame the dub i guess? i'm too used to this Freeza and kai's Freeza just doesn't sound intimidating or evil enough.
So "mondo cool", Freeza's constant sexual innuendo and bad jokes, the monster truck announcer narration, "Krillin's in da' house!" aren't bastardizations?
Nah.. its just cultural differences? i don't see how jokes ruined the complete show and you cannot have 100% word to word translation from one language to another or else you will have to deal with awkward dialogs which evidently kai seems to have.
TheGmGoken wrote:They didn't dub Dragonbox. They redubbed Saiyan arc for orange bricks. Then some actors redid some lines. Hardly a complete redub.
They didn't? i'm pretty sure there are at least 2 versions of early dbz dubbing.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Freeza Soldier #156 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:12 pm

Rockman X wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:They didn't dub Dragonbox. They redubbed Saiyan arc for orange bricks. Then some actors redid some lines. Hardly a complete redub.
They didn't? i'm pretty sure there are at least 2 versions of early dbz dubbing.
Yes, there are. As I said previously, the Ocean Group (a completely different set of actors than what is heard today) originally dubbed the Saiyan and Namek arcs and FUNimation went back about 10 years later and redubbed them.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by dbboxkaifan » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:19 pm

They didn't? i'm pretty sure there are at least 2 versions of early dbz dubbing.
FUNimation took the "Newly Remastered Dub" (that're on the OBs) with the original soundtrack and added to the US Dragon Box Z release because they mustn't want to have any sub-only releases at all.

I think those who've seen the US Dragon Box Z with the English dub track activated skipped the NEPs or so that's what I read here (or somewhere else). The English dub on the US Dragon Box Z actually had CHA-LA-HEAD-CHA-LA opening music unlike the other releases.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Rockman X » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:30 pm

dbboxkaifan wrote:When I hear the original Japanese Goku, I'm not hearing a female voice but Goku himself.

FUNimation's Goku sounds too superman & heroic and that isn't what Goku is about, but apparently the English fanbase likes it so FUNimation stuck to it.

Still, my favourite English Goku is as always, Peter Kelamis.
lol i guess we're in the opposite sides of the spectrum here,sean's voice is like the definitive goku for me i guess i just like "Superman goku" its just something about his voice that fits goku just right.
Freeza Soldier #156 wrote:Yes, there are. As I said previously, the Ocean Group (a completely different set of actors than what is heard today) originally dubbed the Saiyan and Namek arcs and FUNimation went back about 10 years later and redubbed them.
So the namek arc onwards its older dubbing?

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by ABED » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:40 pm

lol he's a horned devil,i'd expect him to be evil&intimidating.

I guess you see Freeza as more of a katz from courage the cowardly dog type of villain but i just don't see Freeza like that.. blame the dub i guess? i'm too used to this Freeza and kai's Freeza just doesn't sound intimidating or evil enough.
I see Freeza as Freeza. I see him as he was written by Toriyama, and how the images portray him. The overly sexualized granny Freeza clashes with the posture and gentlemanly nature of the character.
Nah.. its just cultural differences? i don't see how jokes ruined the complete show and you cannot have 100% word to word translation from one language to another or else you will have to deal with awkward dialogs which evidently kai seems to have.
Not cultural differences. The jokes didn't completely ruin it, but it did to a large extent. If you gave the same actors with the same experience better lines, they wouldn't have been nearly as bad. I'm well aware that you can't translate it word for word, but they barely tried. The dialog isn't awkward in Kai, it just doesn't treat its audience like five year olds.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Gonstead » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:43 pm

Rockman X wrote:So the Namek arc onwards its older dubbing?
The Saiyan and Half of the Namek Arc are the properly redubbed material. Once Goku starts to fight Ginyu, a lot of the older material is in it with only a few characters being redubbed for better acting. The redubbing completely stops after the Frieza fight.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:43 pm

SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:I might be bias from liking the "Heroic" Goku as I'd known him but it only irks me a bit when he has lazy grammar, when he gets too casual about even serious situations... yes thats who he was intended to be, a nihilist but... meh, my preference.
Did you just say that Goku was intended to be a nihilist? :shock:

I don't think you know what that word means.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Rockman X » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:58 pm

ABED wrote:I see Freeza as Freeza. I see him as he was written by Toriyama, and how the images portray him. The overly sexualized granny Freeza clashes with the posture and gentlemanly nature of the character.
And i see Goku as he's portrayed in the images that portray him as a muscular,lighthearted guy and yet the japanse goku sounds a high pitched woman.. and no one seems to take an issue with that.
Not cultural differences. The jokes didn't completely ruin it, but it did to a large extent. If you gave the same actors with the same experience better lines, they wouldn't have been nearly as bad. I'm well aware that you can't translate it word for word, but they barely tried. The dialog isn't awkward in Kai, it just doesn't treat its audience like five year olds.
I agree the older dub is cheesy and has dumbed down dialogs but kai still isn't any better either it has its own set of problems... like characters overarticulating everything and the sometimes the dialog delivery just seems too rushed when compared to the original counterpart and their choice of words belong in a Shakespeare book.

I mean its a freaking cartoon about alien monsters for pete's sake they dubbed the whole show like its some crime drama or something.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by ABED » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Rockman X wrote:
ABED wrote:I see Freeza as Freeza. I see him as he was written by Toriyama, and how the images portray him. The overly sexualized granny Freeza clashes with the posture and gentlemanly nature of the character.
And i see Goku as he's portrayed in the images that portray him as a muscular,lighthearted guy and yet the japanse goku sounds a high pitched woman.. and no one seems to take an issue with that.
Not cultural differences. The jokes didn't completely ruin it, but it did to a large extent. If you gave the same actors with the same experience better lines, they wouldn't have been nearly as bad. I'm well aware that you can't translate it word for word, but they barely tried. The dialog isn't awkward in Kai, it just doesn't treat its audience like five year olds.
I agree the older dub is cheesy and has dumbed down dialogs but kai still isn't any better either it has its own set of problems... like characters overarticulating everything and the sometimes the dialog delivery just seems too rushed when compared to the original counterpart and their choice of words belong in a Shakespeare book.

I mean its a freaking cartoon about alien monsters for pete's sake they dubbed the whole show like its some crime drama or something.
Nozawa is high pitched but part of that captures Goku's childlike qualities. I enjoy Schemmel in the role, it's just the direction and dialog hurts him. When it's all working together well, Schemmel is great.

I'll take Kai's sometimes overly wordy dialog (the Japanese seem to talk pretty fast as well) over dumbed down dialog. I like wordiness sometimes, such as in Kevin Smith or Quentin Tarantino movies. The Shakespearian dialog works for Freeza.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Rockman X » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:22 pm

ABED wrote:Nozawa is high pitched but part of that captures Goku's childlike qualities.I enjoy Schemmel in the role, it's just the direction and dialog hurts him. When it's all working together well, Schemmel is great.
I don't get it.. you say that Freeza's granny voice is bothering you whereas you should that her badly written dialogs bother you,i don't see anything inherently wrong with her voice she still portrays the villain role pretty well though not like a posh gentleman but that's really up to interpretation in the original Japanese version Freeza's voice actor is not really like a posh gentelaman.
I like wordiness sometimes, such as in Kevin Smith or Quentin Tarantino movies.
I like them when watching other movies too but not when i'm watching DBZ lol

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by ABED » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:39 pm

Rockman X wrote:
ABED wrote:Nozawa is high pitched but part of that captures Goku's childlike qualities.I enjoy Schemmel in the role, it's just the direction and dialog hurts him. When it's all working together well, Schemmel is great.
I don't get it.. you say that Freeza's granny voice is bothering you whereas you should that her badly written dialogs bother you,i don't see anything inherently wrong with her voice she still portrays the villain role pretty well though not like a posh gentleman but that's really up to interpretation in the original Japanese version Freeza's voice actor is not really like a posh gentelaman.
What's not to get, I don't like the voice, the dialog or the performance. Young is some in other roles, Freeza isn't one of them. I think Toriyama has gone on record as saying who Freeza is and what his characterization is. He's a businessman. And yes, Nakao portrays Freeza as a gentleman.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:15 pm

The funny thing about Kai is, even though it cut the episode count in half, a huge chunk of the show is still filler. So the VAST MAJORITY of the original anime was just filler/padding.

But, even if it's not complete, the cutting of most of the filler plus the vastly improved script and performances in the Funimation dub put Kai firmly in the lead for me. Unless they manage to just completely butcher my favorite saga, but I don't know what could possibly be done to it that's bad enough to make me prefer the Z version of it again.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Freeza Soldier #156 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:45 pm

Rockman X wrote:So the namek arc onwards its older dubbing?
Yes. With the exception of some rerecorded dialog for Vegeta and a few others, it is still the old dub. As Gonstead said, the redubbing essentially stopped after the Freeza arc. I believe that Vegeta's lines in the Garlic Junior arc were rerecorded but I may be mistaken. It's been awhile since I've watched the remaster. When I want my dub nostalgia fix, I have my singles which is line for (cringeworthy :wink: ) line the original dub.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by ABED » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:48 pm

Freeza Soldier #156 wrote:
Rockman X wrote:So the namek arc onwards its older dubbing?
Yes. With the exception of some rerecorded dialog for Vegeta and a few others, it is still the old dub. As Gonstead said, the redubbing essentially stopped after the Freeza arc. I believe that Vegeta's lines in the Garlic Junior arc were rerecorded but I may be mistaken. It's been awhile since I've watched the remaster. When I want my dub nostalgia fix, I have my singles which is line for (cringeworthy :wink: ) line the original dub.
exactly. Not all of the actors were redubbed to the same extent. Sean wasn't redubbed except for episode 67, Linda Young stopped being redubbed after one of the transformations, Nadolny wasn't redubbed a little bit before that, etc.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Smochi » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:57 am

Dumb question, but everyone always says they either love or hate Frieza's British accent...but IS there an accent? When I listen to it I just hear American pronunciation with an affect. Is it actually a European accent?

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by El Diabeetus » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:02 am

Smochi wrote:Dumb question, but everyone always says they either love or hate Freeza's British accent...but IS there an accent? When I listen to it I just hear American pronunciation with an affect. Is it actually a European accent?
Maybe the tonality comes off as a more Posh British sound. But, it still sounds like a standard American accent just with the proper arrogance behind it to fit Freeza. That's how I interpreted it.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Smochi » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:05 am

SSJ4 Furanki wrote:
Smochi wrote:Dumb question, but everyone always says they either love or hate Freeza's British accent...but IS there an accent? When I listen to it I just hear American pronunciation with an affect. Is it actually a European accent?
Maybe the tonality comes off as a more Posh British sound. But, it still sounds like a standard American accent just with the proper arrogance behind it to fit Freeza. That's how I interpreted it.

Okay. I just get confused when people complain about the British accent and I'm like "....what accent?" I could get that it's poshness sounds out of place among the rest of the characters, but that could also contribute to the alien feeling.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:40 am

Smochi wrote:
SSJ4 Furanki wrote:
Smochi wrote:Dumb question, but everyone always says they either love or hate Freeza's British accent...but IS there an accent? When I listen to it I just hear American pronunciation with an affect. Is it actually a European accent?
Maybe the tonality comes off as a more Posh British sound. But, it still sounds like a standard American accent just with the proper arrogance behind it to fit Freeza. That's how I interpreted it.
Okay. I just get confused when people complain about the British accent and I'm like "....what accent?" I could get that it's poshness sounds out of place among the rest of the characters, but that could also contribute to the alien feeling.
C'mon. Aliens should not have Earth accents of they're from space. Universal english comprehension is fair for the audience sake but, accents just don't work because they're unexplainable. Not to mention adding it to Freeza just makes him sound more cartoony and stereotypical than smug and arrogant. Cooler was smug and arrogant, as was Cell in both dubs and they didn't need a stereotypical cliche to force it. Thats like giving Dr. Gero a german/russian accent just to show hes a "scientist." Freeza's accent was shameless and unecessary.

Does Vegeta need an accent to prove he's arrogant too? He's a prince and all. No. His diction enough shown it reasonbly.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Smochi » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:58 am

But... I thought we just established Frieza didn't actually have an 'accent?' Speaking with a posh affect is different, and does make sense if you born of, and we're trying to uphold, aristocracy.


While Vegeta was born of royalty, I would think he spent a lot of his development with other saiyans or low-class warriors since he was a child under Frieza, which could explain his less proper dialect.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by SaiyamanMS » Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:29 am

Rockman X wrote:Well calling Z's dub a complete garbage and a bastardization of the original certainly makes you sound like a snobbish elitist,seriously have you ever heard of 4kids dubbing or Saban digimon adventure dub? now these are the dubs that deserve hate.
Honestly, I'd take the English dub of Digimon Adventure over Dragon Ball Z season 3 any day. And comparing the 4Kids of 1999 to the Funimation of 1999, I'd say that 4Kids' Pokémon dub was miles better than what Funi were doing with DBZ at the time. (Sadly, as Funi got better, 4Kids only got worse and worse... All hail Funimation's One Piece!)

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