Kai or Z?

Discussion specifically regarding the "refreshed" TV version of DBZ created in Japan for its 20th anniversary, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by dbboxkaifan » Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:58 am

Smochi wrote:Dumb question, but everyone always says they either love or hate Freeza's British accent...but IS there an accent? When I listen to it I just hear American pronunciation with an affect. Is it actually a European accent?
SSJ4 Furanki wrote:
Smochi wrote:Dumb question, but everyone always says they either love or hate Freeza's British accent...but IS there an accent? When I listen to it I just hear American pronunciation with an affect. Is it actually a European accent?
Maybe the tonality comes off as a more Posh British sound. But, it still sounds like a standard American accent just with the proper arrogance behind it to fit Freeza. That's how I interpreted it.
I don't mean to be rude but have you guys actually heard of what a real British accent sounds like? Freeza doesn't have that type of accent and I'm glad he doesn't because it's not as cool as Americans like to think of it.

Neither does Stewie from Family Guy. Dunno what's with Americans thinking a character that doesn't have an American accent automatically is doing a British accent.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by TheGmGoken » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:06 am

I've heard sone British people with accents. Freeza can pass somewhat. It's there a little. But not 100%. Most likely wasn't intended though. This is coming from someone who's not originally American. It's called stereotype. Americans aren't the only one who do it.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by ABED » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:10 am

There isn't just one british accent, there are many, just like there are many American accents. And yes, british accents are awesome.
C'mon. Aliens should not have Earth accents of they're from space. Universal english comprehension is fair for the audience sake but, accents just don't work because they're unexplainable.
That's a fairly arbitrary line, don't you think? It's fine that most aliens look humanoid and speak English, but no accents, that's unrealistic.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Blade » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:54 am

TheGmGoken wrote:I've heard sone British people with accents. Freeza can pass somewhat. It's there a little. But not 100%. Most likely wasn't intended though. This is coming from someone who's not originally American. It's called stereotype. Americans aren't the only one who do it.
It wouldn't pass - no one actually talks like that in regular conversation over here. Chris Ayres' Freeza is a caricature of British received pronunciation, which itself isn't so much of a natural accent nowadays, but the product of formal refinement through elocution lessons - normally in theater.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by ABED » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:36 pm

Blade wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:I've heard sone British people with accents. Freeza can pass somewhat. It's there a little. But not 100%. Most likely wasn't intended though. This is coming from someone who's not originally American. It's called stereotype. Americans aren't the only one who do it.
It wouldn't pass - no one actually talks like that in regular conversation over here. Chris Ayres' Freeza is a caricature of British received pronunciation, which itself isn't so much of a natural accent nowadays, but the product of formal refinement through elocution lessons - normally in theater.
Freeza is refined.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Blade » Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:10 pm

ABED wrote:
Blade wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:I've heard sone British people with accents. Freeza can pass somewhat. It's there a little. But not 100%. Most likely wasn't intended though. This is coming from someone who's not originally American. It's called stereotype. Americans aren't the only one who do it.
It wouldn't pass - no one actually talks like that in regular conversation over here. Chris Ayres' Freeza is a caricature of British received pronunciation, which itself isn't so much of a natural accent nowadays, but the product of formal refinement through elocution lessons - normally in theater.
Freeza is refined.
Yeah, but unless he was addressing the footlights at Cambridge or reading the national news on the BBC, he wouldn't be speaking like that. The point I'm making is that it's not a natural accent that people would use in regular conversation, it's a theatrical, public-speaking sort of manner. Even as far as received pronunciation goes in royalty and the aristocracy, Ayres' depiction is quite exaggerated. His performance is a bombastic caricature of snootiness, which may leave the intended impression on the masses, mainly due to the predominately American association between English people and pomposity, it's quite departed from anything resembling a natural speaking accent.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by TheGmGoken » Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:37 pm

Blade wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:I've heard sone British people with accents. Freeza can pass somewhat. It's there a little. But not 100%. Most likely wasn't intended though. This is coming from someone who's not originally American. It's called stereotype. Americans aren't the only one who do it.
It wouldn't pass - no one actually talks like that in regular conversation over here. Chris Ayres' Freeza is a caricature of British received pronunciation, which itself isn't so much of a natural accent nowadays, but the product of formal refinement through elocution lessons - normally in theater.
Which is why I said stereotype and not intended. You're right bout the theater part though.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by El Diabeetus » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:44 pm

dbboxkaifan wrote:I don't mean to be rude but have you guys actually heard of what a real British accent sounds like? Freeza doesn't have that type of accent and I'm glad he doesn't because it's not as cool as Americans like to think of it.

Neither does Stewie from Family Guy. Dunno what's with Americans thinking a character that doesn't have an American accent automatically is doing a British accent.
I know someone in real life who is full blooded British (don't remember exactly what part of Britain he is from), accent and all. I wasn't suggesting Freeza/Ayres sounding like he had an actual Posh accent. I just said he had a similar tone/adapted the tone to it even though he still clearly has the American accent you hear in a majority of media or are from the Northwest US in most cases. It does make for an interesting case as no one actually talks like that in a real conversation. But, Freeza doesn't speak like a normal person. Maybe a tad exaggerated in Kai (but I like it, I think it's one of the best ways to adapt Freeza's dialouge into English). However, I'd prefer they over-adapt it than not at all.

In the case of Stewie, I would never argue it. Only in the first 3 seasons or so did he sound like a Rex Harrison impression, as Family Guy got revived, the slight accent dropped and it became what it has in the more recent seasons.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Smochi » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:57 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:
Blade wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:I've heard sone British people with accents. Freeza can pass somewhat. It's there a little. But not 100%. Most likely wasn't intended though. This is coming from someone who's not originally American. It's called stereotype. Americans aren't the only one who do it.
It wouldn't pass - no one actually talks like that in regular conversation over here. Chris Ayres' Freeza is a caricature of British received pronunciation, which itself isn't so much of a natural accent nowadays, but the product of formal refinement through elocution lessons - normally in theater.
Which is why I said stereotype and not intended. You're right bout the theater part though.

Maybe they tried to portray him as a spoiled kind of prince who would have elocution lessons? I feel like because of the business-like nature of the PTO, it's possible he had an education that included speech in order to sound refined.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:10 pm

Smochi wrote:But... I thought we just established Freeza didn't actually have an 'accent?' Speaking with a posh affect is different, and does make sense if you born of, and we're trying to uphold, aristocracy.

While Vegeta was born of royalty, I would think he spent a lot of his development with other saiyans or low-class warriors since he was a child under Freeza, which could explain his less proper dialect.
But Vegeta prounounces all his vowels normally, even in Kai. Freeza's "accent" or whatever it is, is still noticable from his long "eh" sounds added onto most of what says. Then again it was inconsistant and undeeded overall. His better preforamce is probably when Freeza kills Krillin. Thats where he sounds the most normal. I prefer him keep the "Er" sounds as they are.
TheGmGoken wrote:I've heard sone British people with accents. Freeza can pass somewhat. It's there a little. But not 100%. Most likely wasn't intended though. This is coming from someone who's not originally American. It's called stereotype. Americans aren't the only one who do it.
I consider Freeza/Stewie's voice more of an old English/Posh stereotype accent than a genuine British one. Most Americans just cant tell the difference.
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Honestly, I'd take the English dub of Digimon Adventure over Dragon Ball Z season 3 any day. And comparing the 4Kids of 1999 to the Funimation of 1999, I'd say that 4Kids' Pokémon dub was miles better than what Funi were doing with DBZ at the time. (Sadly, as Funi got better, 4Kids only got worse and worse... All hail Funimation's One Piece!)
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by ABED » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:51 pm

DBZ is exaggerated, so I don't see the problem with Freeza's exaggerated accent.

And what's with bringing up Stewie? That's even more exaggerated for comic effect. Are you expecting subtlety or realism in FAMILY GUY?
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:16 pm

ABED wrote:That's a fairly arbitrary line, don't you think? It's fine that most aliens look humanoid and speak English, but no accents, that's unrealistic.
Being humanoid is just a body shape. Its not impossible, its for their combat mobility just like Buu really being an abstract embodiment but human shaped to fight humans. Speaking English/Japanese is just for the audience. Them having Earth-specific accents despite never being on Earth isnt likely or rational. I can't see it.
ABED wrote:DBZ is exaggerated, so I don't see the problem with Freeza's exaggerated accent.

And what's with bringing up Stewie? That's even more exaggerated for comic effect. Are you expecting subtlety or realism in FAMILY GUY?
The stewie comment was argued for a different context, it was regarding someone else judging the accent itself to Freeza's.

Freeza's accent isnt at all a reflection of the series or its meaning of concepts though. Dialects arent even what the series is exaggerating. Its a dub-fault.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:11 pm

SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:
ABED wrote:That's a fairly arbitrary line, don't you think? It's fine that most aliens look humanoid and speak English, but no accents, that's unrealistic.
Being humanoid is just a body shape. Its not impossible, its for their combat mobility just like Buu really being an abstract embodiment but human shaped to fight humans. Speaking English/Japanese is just for the audience. Them having Earth-specific accents despite never being on Earth isnt likely or rational. I can't see it.
I see nothing wrong with giving a character a little bit of extra flavor and just pretending it originated wherever they are from, because none of the characters can go to, or live on, Earth and pick up an Australian accent from Australia. It doesn't exist. Dragon Ball's Earth isn't our Earth. They don't have the same countries, they don't have the same dialects, they don't have the same accents, etc.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by ABED » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:16 pm

SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:
ABED wrote:That's a fairly arbitrary line, don't you think? It's fine that most aliens look humanoid and speak English, but no accents, that's unrealistic.
Being humanoid is just a body shape. Its not impossible, its for their combat mobility just like Buu really being an abstract embodiment but human shaped to fight humans. Speaking English/Japanese is just for the audience. Them having Earth-specific accents despite never being on Earth isnt likely or rational. I can't see it.
ABED wrote:DBZ is exaggerated, so I don't see the problem with Freeza's exaggerated accent.

And what's with bringing up Stewie? That's even more exaggerated for comic effect. Are you expecting subtlety or realism in FAMILY GUY?
The stewie comment was argued for a different context, it was regarding someone else judging the accent itself to Freeza's.

Freeza's accent isnt at all a reflection of the series or its meaning of concepts though. Dialects arent even what the series is exaggerating. Its a dub-fault.
Not impossible, but it's HIGHLY improbable that aliens will be humanoid given how different planets form and evolve (for lack of a better term). If you can suspend disbelief with language, why not this?

Dialects can be an area where they exaggerate things. People don't call out attacks, but THIS bugs you?
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Sun Mar 16, 2014 12:46 am

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:
ABED wrote:That's a fairly arbitrary line, don't you think? It's fine that most aliens look humanoid and speak English, but no accents, that's unrealistic.
Being humanoid is just a body shape. Its not impossible, its for their combat mobility just like Buu really being an abstract embodiment but human shaped to fight humans. Speaking English/Japanese is just for the audience. Them having Earth-specific accents despite never being on Earth isnt likely or rational. I can't see it.
I see nothing wrong with giving a character a little bit of extra flavor and just pretending it originated wherever they are from, because none of the characters can go to, or live on, Earth and pick up an Australian accent from Australia. It doesn't exist. Dragon Ball's Earth isn't our Earth. They don't have the same countries, they don't have the same dialects, they don't have the same accents, etc.
I hate that excuse, it can be used for anything even if it doesn't logically work. Its the same argument I hear when people try to tell me that Mr. Popo isnt an offensive design choice. C'mon, just because its a fantasy world doesnt mean it cant or doesnt reflect our world in anyway; its just not predominantly relevant to the story as it is in our world. Its not a logical argument. I could say that about any religious scripture. The fantasy world allows it to be bizzare yes, but it doesn't rationalize the absurdity in it.

The issue with the accents is the dub director's fault more so than anything in the anime. I'm very sure Freeza or Jheece don't have accents in the japanese version.
ABED wrote:
SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:
ABED wrote:That's a fairly arbitrary line, don't you think? It's fine that most aliens look humanoid and speak English, but no accents, that's unrealistic.
Being humanoid is just a body shape. Its not impossible, its for their combat mobility just like Buu really being an abstract embodiment but human shaped to fight humans. Speaking English/Japanese is just for the audience. Them having Earth-specific accents despite never being on Earth isnt likely or rational. I can't see it.
ABED wrote:DBZ is exaggerated, so I don't see the problem with Freeza's exaggerated accent.
And what's with bringing up Stewie? That's even more exaggerated for comic effect. Are you expecting subtlety or realism in FAMILY GUY?
The stewie comment was argued for a different context, it was regarding someone else judging the accent itself to Freeza's.
Freeza's accent isnt at all a reflection of the series or its meaning of concepts though. Dialects arent even what the series is exaggerating. Its a dub-fault.
Not impossible, but it's HIGHLY improbable that aliens will be humanoid given how different planets form and evolve (for lack of a better term). If you can suspend disbelief with language, why not this?
Dialects can be an area where they exaggerate things. People don't call out attacks, but THIS bugs you?
Whats to really say any alien cant be humanoid? Human-shape isnt scientifically exclusive to humans. Its just as far as we know, but I know for the anime they have human shapes to make it easier to draw and easier for the characters themselves to fight. Theres no other reason besides that.

Unless they were to breakdown how Dub-Jheece learned English or the origin of his language there won't be any logical reason to fill in the gap.

The characters shouting out attacks isnt the universe, its an adaption thing. They do that because they're labelled in the mangas. Its also the signifyer of their best and signature techniques, for marketing. The villains don't actually call their attacks anything, the games do.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by ABED » Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:34 am

I've read from a few sources and was told by my physics professor that if there are aliens, the possibility of them being humanoid is small.
The fantasy world allows it to be bizzare yes, but it doesn't rationalize the absurdity in it.
Except that in storytelling, the rules of that world are whatever the author says.
I'm very sure Freeza or Jheece don't have accents in the japanese version.
Technically, everyone has an accent.
Theres no other reason besides that.
There are other designs that are easier to draw than humans. Most people draw human looking aliens because it's hard to think of anything except using references in our world.
The characters shouting out attacks isnt the universe, its an adaption thing. They do that because they're labelled in the mangas. Its also the signifyer of their best and signature techniques, for marketing. The villains don't actually call their attacks anything, the games do.
That's not an adaptation thing, it's in the manga, and villains like Tao Pai Pai and Cell did call out attacks.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by SSJ6Goku » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:51 pm

Kai graphics. orange brick Z in English for music, voices, and suspense

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by Gonstead » Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:22 pm

SSJ6Goku wrote:Kai graphics. orange brick Z in English for music, voices, and suspense
So basically what Chris Sabat and Justin Cook fought against Funimation from doing with Kai.
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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by OWmyDragonBallz » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:51 pm

JEFFMAN219 wrote:I like kai over Z for the reasons stated below

1) Kai has a better and more faithful English dub.

2) Kai cuts out the boring filler e.g Goku and Freeza just standing around for a whole episode.

3) The voice actors for the dub have gotten way better.

4) Kai is probably the only way you will be able to get dragon ball z in 4:3 format.
Um, Dragonbox is 4:3. Level Sets are 4:3. The singles are 4:3.

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Re: Kai or Z?

Post by ABED » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:06 pm

OWmyDragonBallz wrote:
JEFFMAN219 wrote:I like kai over Z for the reasons stated below

1) Kai has a better and more faithful English dub.

2) Kai cuts out the boring filler e.g Goku and Freeza just standing around for a whole episode.

3) The voice actors for the dub have gotten way better.

4) Kai is probably the only way you will be able to get dragon ball z in 4:3 format.
Um, Dragonbox is 4:3. Level Sets are 4:3. The singles are 4:3.
Dragon Boxes were a limited release, good luck getting them all, much less at a good price.
The singles weren't complete, and there were nearly 100 of them.
The Level were cancelled fairly quickly.
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