Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

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Castleking001
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Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by Castleking001 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:11 pm

I'm not sure this subject needs its own topic, or if it belongs here (I can move it if need be). But I've had a question about infamous green tint for a long time now, and that is Piccolo's skin. I've been trying (with little success) to color correct the Buu arc episodes, and I've noticed that when you try to remove the tint, Piccolo's skin turns "sickly" looking. Even with the green tint, Piccolo's skin color doesn't look normal, especially in the most recent episodes. I'm just curious if his skin color always looked different in the Buu arc, or if Toei's recent in house remastering changed it. Is it even possible to correct the footage so that it matches Kai 1.0's color scheme (or just looks decent for that matter). Sorry again if this question is unnecessary or misplaced. :?

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by Ajay » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:13 pm

You can do it through the 'selective colour' option in After Effects. You usually have to do this on a scene by scene basis as it'll mess with the bushes and other greenery that wasn't altered individually.

But yeah, I'm fairly sure in the advertising for Kai 2.0, Piccolo's skin colour being 'fixed' was part of their remaster spiel.

You can make other scenes match relatively easily:
Piccolo:
Image

It's just a yellow and green channel adjustment.
Last edited by Ajay on Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by Naruto6583 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:18 pm

Castleking001 wrote:I'm not sure this subject needs its own topic, or if it belongs here (I can move it if need be). But I've had a question about infamous green tint for a long time now, and that is Piccolo's skin. I've been trying (with little success) to color correct the Buu arc episodes, and I've noticed that when you try to remove the tint, Piccolo's skin turns "sickly" looking. Even with the green tint, Piccolo's skin color doesn't look normal, especially in the most recent episodes. I'm just curious if his skin color always looked different in the Buu arc, or if Toei's recent in house remastering changed it. Is it even possible to correct the footage so that it matches Kai 1.0's color scheme (or just looks decent for that matter). Sorry again if this question is unnecessary or misplaced. :?
Who knows for the most part that is from toei's remastering when you compare 1.0 to 2.0 budget wise there is a major difference

Kai 1.0
Yamamoto had a fair budget
The animation was Remastered by Q-Tec
The show was sponsored
The music was outsourced to Columbia
Toei knew where they were going with around 100 episodes originally

Kai 2.0
Sumitomo was probably paid half of what Yamamoto was paid
The animation was Remastered in house by Toei
The show was not sponsored
The music was not outsourced
Originally meant for the international market
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by Castleking001 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:47 am

AjayLikesGaming wrote:You can do it through the 'selective colour' option in After Effects. You usually have to do this on a scene by scene basis as it'll mess with the bushes and other greenery that wasn't altered individually.

But yeah, I'm fairly sure in the advertising for Kai 2.0, Piccolo's skin colour being 'fixed' was part of their remaster spiel.

You can make other scenes match relatively easily:
Piccolo:
Image

It's just a yellow and green channel adjustment.
Oh my goodness! That's it!!! :o You sir, have won the internet in my book! It's what Kai 2.0 would've looked like if Q-Tec had remastered it! Thank yo so much! Now I just have to procure After Effects, somehow. :D

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by SpiritBombTriumphant » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:21 am

I'm starting to think that the entire reason I hate Kai 2.0's image quality is because the tint they have on the picture makes it look cheaper/worse. I hope FUNimation removes it for whenever they get around to releasing it...

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by sintzu » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:38 am

Naruto6583 wrote:Toei knew where they were going with around 100 episodes originally
This is surprising to me cause I thought they ended it when they did because of the low sales.

Do you know why the decided to end it with Cell instead of Buu ?
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by Darkblade1995 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:34 am

sintzu wrote:
Naruto6583 wrote:Toei knew where they were going with around 100 episodes originally
This is surprising to me cause I thought they ended it when they did because of the low sales.

Do you know why the decided to end it with Cell instead of Buu ?
That ''100 episodes thing'' was a rumor since the very first announcement of Kai. Toei never said anything about the complete episode count. And you said it yourself. They ended it because of the low sales. Also the very reason why the budget for the Buu arc is a lot lower.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:53 am

SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:I'm starting to think that the entire reason I hate Kai 2.0's image quality is because the tint they have on the picture makes it look cheaper/worse. I hope FUNimation removes it for whenever they get around to releasing it...
I don't think they'll mess with the colors, because they got a lot of flack for doing that in the orange bricks.

The sad thing is, in this case, I do want them to color-correct...and not only that, it looks like doing so is easy. I can't say for sure because audio is my specialty, not video (which I know next to nothing about), so I don't know how much time or care it takes to color-correct these episodes, but if color-correcting these episodes is really as easy as fans here on Kanzenshuu are making it out to be, it's all the more disappointing that Toei made such an easily-correctable error.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by TripleRach » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:50 pm

Darkblade1995 wrote:That ''100 episodes thing'' was a rumor since the very first announcement of Kai. Toei never said anything about the complete episode count. And you said it yourself. They ended it because of the low sales. Also the very reason why the budget for the Buu arc is a lot lower.
Not only that, but initially there was no confirmation that they'd even go past Freeza. And when the Android/Cell arc did start, it came with the big AKB48 tie-in, presumably in an effort to drum up more interest (which was obviously unsuccessful). Most people assumed Kai 1.0 would cover all of Z just because of the premise of the product, so it was a huge shock when it was canceled. The 100 episode rumor just happened to come true by coincidence.
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by ShinGaijin » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:17 pm

Thanks to ScholarGohan http://goo.gl/qFD4uV , here's a comparison between the international version and the Japanese version :
http://imgur.com/a/ER8Lq#0

Colors look the same, unfortunately.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by Darkblade1995 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:29 pm

ShinGaijin wrote:Thanks to ScholarGohan http://goo.gl/qFD4uV , here's a comparison between the international version and the Japanese version :
http://imgur.com/a/ER8Lq#0

Colors look the same, unfortunately.
The colors are the same, yes, but the Japanese broadcast also had a sharpness filter applied which makes it a bit more..... dead, if that makes sense. I think they never should've applied the sharpness filter.

Edit: Maybe dead is a powerful word, but due to the sharpness filter, those edges around the outlines of the characters definitely make it a lot more unnatural looking.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by Kendamu » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:11 pm

Darkblade1995 wrote:
ShinGaijin wrote:Thanks to ScholarGohan http://goo.gl/qFD4uV , here's a comparison between the international version and the Japanese version :
http://imgur.com/a/ER8Lq#0

Colors look the same, unfortunately.
The colors are the same, yes, but the Japanese broadcast also had a sharpness filter applied which makes it a bit more..... dead, if that makes sense. I think they never should've applied the sharpness filter.

Edit: Maybe dead is a powerful word, but due to the sharpness filter, those edges around the outlines of the characters definitely make it a lot more unnatural looking.
It's also cropped slightly differently between the two versions. I wonder why that is.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:19 pm

I dunno, I actually kind of like the sharpness filter, it's easier to appreciate the finer details of the animation with that filter on. I like the international version's aspect ratio better, though.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by TheKingOfKamehamehas » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:07 pm

So is the one on the left Japanese and the one on the right International?

The one on the right looks better...
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by Ajay » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:29 pm

The sharpness filter is from the RAW provider rather than something that was done for the Japanese broadcast, from what I understand, at least.
Last edited by Ajay on Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by Kendamu » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:58 pm

TheKingOfKamehamehas wrote:So is the one on the left Japanese and the one on the right International?

The one on the right looks better...
The one with the timestamp is the Japanese one.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by SpiritBombTriumphant » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:30 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote:
SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:I'm starting to think that the entire reason I hate Kai 2.0's image quality is because the tint they have on the picture makes it look cheaper/worse. I hope FUNimation removes it for whenever they get around to releasing it...
I don't think they'll mess with the colors, because they got a lot of flack for doing that in the orange bricks.

The sad thing is, in this case, I do want them to color-correct...and not only that, it looks like doing so is easy. I can't say for sure because audio is my specialty, not video (which I know next to nothing about), so I don't know how much time or care it takes to color-correct these episodes, but if color-correcting these episodes is really as easy as fans here on Kanzenshuu are making it out to be, it's all the more disappointing that Toei made such an easily-correctable error.
Did they really color correct that much with the orange bricks? I looked up some information on the Dragon Ball Wiki and it says that the color correction "is little to none." What bothers me more is this screenshot of Goku as a Super Saiyan and how overexposed this picture looks due to the DVNR process to remove grain from the film.
I feel like anyone who paid for that level of quality should've demanded a refund. I have the BD remaster and love it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:14 am

SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:Did they really color correct that much with the orange bricks? I looked up some information on the Dragon Ball Wiki and it says that the color correction "is little to none."
The wiki has often proven unreliable, unfortunately. To quote Kanzenshuu...

[quote="Kanzenshuu, in their article, "FUNimation Dragon Box History & Significance""]These statements are a combination of standard misleading statements and pure fabrication...claims that the colors were “left completely unaltered” were flat-out false; compare the following “Dragon Box” and FUNimation “remastered” shots for yourself:

(TheBlackPaladin Note: So, umm......I....kinda.....don't know how to post images on Kanzenshuu....so click this link to find the identical text, where pictures are provided: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/features/funi ... nificance/)

Note the loss of detail in Goku’s Kamehameha shot. While not incredibly significant, shadows approach disappearance and some speed lines are entirely removed. Both shots showcase the extent to which the contrast and saturation were played with, entirely contrary to FUNimation’s claims about leaving it alone. While many fans will point to scenes like the Super Saiyan Goku loss-of-detail due to shaking from earlier in the article as primary examples of what was wrong with the remastering, these two comparison shots are the “everyday” examples of detail loss and color adjustments that went into the sets. The “subdued” colors FUNimation speaks of are nowhere to be seen; anything with a flash or larger-than-normal amount of white is completely washed out and near-blinding.[/quote]
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by ShinGaijin » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:10 am

AjayLikesGaming wrote:The sharpness filter is from the RAW provider rather than something that was done for the Japanese broadcast, from what I understand, at least.
No, they don't use sharpness filter.That said, as you surely know, one of them is color-correcting the episodes since the beginning of the show.
Untouched 1080i clip, from an MPEG2/AAC .TS file ;) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pshBCroLZQ
Kendamu wrote:It's also cropped slightly differently between the two versions. I wonder why that is.
Probably to avoid this kind of (very amateurish) errors dues to sloppy framing :

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai Green Tint

Post by DBZ_Lee » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:10 am

ShinGaijin wrote:
Kendamu wrote:It's also cropped slightly differently between the two versions. I wonder why that is.
Probably to avoid this kind of (very amateurish) errors dues to sloppy framing :
Up to now, I haven't at all been bothered by the green tint, and as bad as the music placement has been at times, hasn't been enough to make me switch off.
But that shoddy, amateur work above with the cropping is very poor, and for a product which is going to cost a fair bit over 6 parts, is just unacceptable.

I hope Toei allow FUNi to re-crop certain scenes where it's obvious glaring errors have been made. In an ideal world, they'd just send over the Japanese version, but there's no way they'll do that.

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