Was Kai Necessary

Discussion specifically regarding the "refreshed" TV version of DBZ created in Japan for its 20th anniversary, including individual threads for each episode.

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Hero
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Was Kai Necessary

Post by Hero » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:34 pm

Now with Kai all done from the Saiyan to the Buu arcs, do you feel Kai was a necessary inclusion to the franchise? A lot of the complaints I hear from people are that it wasn't reanimated (though with Super's track record I'm glad Kai wasn't), the music scandal, there still being filler and other stuff. But I feel Kai was necessary because of the dub.

For the record, I love the original dub and the Faulconer OST and always will, but there's no denying that the Funimation dubbing in Kai is miles better. For me and other people like me we now have three solid products: the original Japanese version to see the anime in its original version, the original Funi dub for nostalgia and the Kai Funi dub to see the better, dare I say "definitive" English version.

I haven't seen much of the Japanese Kai dub so I can't judge it, but for English dub fans for myself, I consider Kai a necessity.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by Darkblade1995 » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:47 pm

For the Japanese fans, it's totally unnecessary. They already have Z with superior voice acting, music and even music placement. But I do think that Kai is the ideal way to watch DBZ in english. Plus it's 124 episodes less than dbz so if you want to watch as a faster pace, well Kai is your best option.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by Chuquita » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:17 pm

I also think it was only really necessary for overseas dubs. Kai is responsible for Chris Ayers as Freeza after all; even though I'm a subs fan, I really appreciate his performance as Freeza in the Funi dub.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:02 pm

Fuck yes. I mean, Kai may not been needed at within the Japanese fanbase, but Kai sure as hell was need for the English Dub side of things. The dub for Z desperately needed a serious rewriting as well as serious recasting.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:17 pm

Personally, I'm of the belief that the opportunity to do a better dub (for both FUNimation and other countries) was the only good--no, fantastic--thing to come out of Kai.

The Japanese version of Kai is, in my opinion, weaker than the Japanese version of DBZ in every respect. How much weaker? Depends on which aspect we're talking about. The music was noticeably weaker, whereas the acting was more or less on par with DBZ, but still just a little bit weaker. I've said before several times, many of the Japanese cast members in Kai have a "been there, done that" feel in their delivery...which is probably because they have been there and done that. Combine that with the cut material, the rather poorly re-animated scenes, the poor remastering process for the Buu arc, and the colossal mess with the music...and really, all things considered, as a show, Kai is significantly inferior to DBZ.

Unless we're talking about the dub. The dub was so damn good that I've come to mentally think of Kai as an English-language show, because if I'm ever watching Kai, it's to hear the dub. For that matter, other countries, such as France, also got a chance to redeem their mistakes with their DBZ dubs.

So, was it necessary? In my opinion, not unless we're talking about the dubs.
Last edited by TheBlackPaladin on Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by Pokewhiz7 » Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:21 pm

...Do most people just not think the cut filler makes Kai an improvement over Z? I only ever watch the Japanese version of either show and still think Kai is superior because the pace of Z is absurdly slow.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by sintzu » Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:56 pm

Kai was necessary but for me it wasn't for the dub it was the faster pace cause if there's one thing I can't stand it's filler.

The improved dub is also a big welcome but that's not the #1 reason to why I like Kai.
Pokewhiz7 wrote:...Do most people just not think the cut filler makes Kai an improvement over Z?
Most people think the filler makes Z's story better.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by Doctor. » Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:35 am

I wouldn't say it's necessary, even though I like it and prefer it to the original. Neither Z nor Kai stand on their own as legitimately good and well-produced products, unlike the manga. It's an improvement over Z in terms of faithfulness and pacing though, a shame that the soundtrack and the voice acting are drastically worse.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by irreality » Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:10 am

Doctor. wrote:I wouldn't say it's necessary, even though I like it and prefer it to the original. Neither Z nor Kai stand on their own as legitimately good and well-produced products, unlike the manga. It's an improvement over Z in terms of faithfulness and pacing though, a shame that the soundtrack and the voice acting are drastically worse.
This is how I feel, at least for Kai 1.0. Never watched Kai 2.0. I like it for the "more faithful to the manga" anime, but don't like the music as much. (ETA: only ever saw it in Japanese -- I normally only watch the latin dub and didn't need improvement, which I hear was much worse for Kai, so skipped that).
Last edited by irreality on Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:39 am

I haven't seen the Japanese version of Kai, so I can't judge that.

The English version however, as stated before redeemed Funimation's dubbing mistakes.

Nonetheless, yes I do think Kai was necessary. It helped to reinvigorate hype for the franchise.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by B » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:42 pm

They completely and utterly fell on their faces in regards to how the Buu arc was handled. Everything that could've gone wrong did. They made it unnecessary. I cannot fathom how anyone is excited for a dub of that.

I guess if the end result is fans are less misinformed about basic facts because of the more accurate dub, that is nice, but man, did Toei drop the ball on everything else.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by Vegard Aune » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:49 pm

I find Kai considerably easier to recommend to newcomers than Z, due to it essentially cutting the episode length in half without really sacrificing any of the plot-points because Z was just that padded. I mean sure, I still have some issues with Kai not cutting out some things that it really should, and from what I can see The Final Chapters were just an utter trainwreck from start to finish, but overall... yeah if someone wants to watch the Saiyan, Freeza and Cell-arcs animated these days... I'd probably recommend they go with Kai.

Oh yeah, and echoing everyone else's sentiment that the English dub got a much needed improvement with Kai. I can actually watch and enjoy Kai in English, which I certainly can no longer say for anything DB-related done by FUNi before that. (Battle of Gods and Resurrection F were well done however.)

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:20 pm

B wrote:They completely and utterly fell on their faces in regards to how the Buu arc was handled. Everything that could've gone wrong did. They made it unnecessary. I cannot fathom how anyone is excited for a dub of that.
Well, if you think about it, the Buu arc didn't have any new problems, it was just the same problems from the previous arcs, except that the problems were much worse this time around. So, I can still get excited for the dub. I admit though, it's probably the least I've ever been excited for the dub. I'm sure it'll be good, but the dub for the Buu arc of DBZ was already...relatively...OK. My excitement for the Kai dub was in direct proportion to how bad the corresponding sections were for the DBZ dub...so, I am the least excited for the Buu arc, and was the most excited for the Freeza arc (which, in a perfect example of poetic justice, was probably the best arc of the Kai dub). I'm still looking forward to the Buu arc, though!
Vegard Aune wrote:Oh yeah, and echoing everyone else's sentiment that the English dub got a much needed improvement with Kai. I can actually watch and enjoy Kai in English, which I certainly can no longer say for anything DB-related done by FUNi before that. (Battle of Gods and Resurrection F were well done however.)
Since everything after Kai has been dubbed well (at least in English), I half-joke that, when referring to the era of the English dub that begins with Kai, the nickname for that era ought to be "KAO" (Kai And Onward), as if to say, "FUNimation's KAO Dragon Ball dubs are good."

The term will probably never catch on, but then again, I'm amazed that the fan-term "Kai 2.0" did.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by precita » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:52 pm

Kai cutting fillers makes me realize how much I like filler. Especially all the Saiyan Saga filler which is solely lacking in Kai and makes the buildup to the Saiyans far less interesting. I want to see the characters training, I liked Gohan's adventures.

I do think Kai helped the pacing of the Namek arc considerably, but not for all the other sagas.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by Hellspawn28 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:00 am

Yes because:

1 - It help introduced kids to DBZ in both in Japan and the US

2 - Fans been asking for a new version of DBZ that is not as slow as normal DBZ was. Not to mention there has been demand for a less filler version too.

3 - It help give us a good dub when it got dubbed in the US
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by precita » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:47 pm

I used to wish Kai was all reanimated. Then I saw the animation for Super and I think its probably for the best all they did was splice together all episodes.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:22 am

precita wrote:I used to wish Kai was all reanimated. Then I saw the animation for Super and I think its probably for the best all they did was splice together all episodes.
We will probably see the original anime series and Z remade with modern animation in a few years. Super's animation in general hasn't been too bad, there are really bad episodes here and there but that's mainly because the series was rushed into reproduction straight after Resurrection F.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by DoomieDoomie911 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:16 pm

It definitely wasn't necessary for Japan, but I think it was really, really beneficial to the American market.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by TheXenoverse » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:40 pm

Those morons should have reanimated the damn series, they had no excuse. Otherwise, yes, Kai was necessary in introducing a new generation to the DB franchise, and as a result likely generated more interest when BoG and RoF got released, and because of that (for better or for worse) we have Super.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:00 pm

You do realize that we would have gotten the exact same shitty animation we got with Super if Toei reanimated Z, do you?

And as much as I hate jumping on the bandwagon, the only way a worthwhile reanimation could happen is if Toei loses the rights and another studio took over.
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