As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Discussion specifically regarding the "refreshed" TV version of DBZ created in Japan for its 20th anniversary, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by Scsigs » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:05 am

Jean0987654321 wrote:Nope. AND it NEVER will!! :D

DBZ is my childhood. Coming home from elementary and watching DBZ brings me the best memories
And that's fine. Nostalgia is fine, just don't let it get in the way of rationality. Kai's dub is better in pretty much every way. The Z dub doesn't hold up whatsoever & it's not where you go to get serious about the franchise anyways.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
TFS getting shafted from the Kai TFC dub is a great travesty.
GT sucks, get over it if you disagree.
We'll see what happens to Vic.
Um...Listen to Waterparks.
That is all.
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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by Jean0987654321 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:29 am

Scsigs wrote:
Jean0987654321 wrote:Nope. AND it NEVER will!! :D

DBZ is my childhood. Coming home from elementary and watching DBZ brings me the best memories
And that's fine. Nostalgia is fine, just don't let it get in the way of rationality. Kai's dub is better in pretty much every way. The Z dub doesn't hold up whatsoever & it's not where you go to get serious about the franchise anyways.
Rationality is also fine but to say that Z Kai "replaced" Z? Not too fine, IMO. I did like most of the fillers in Z especially the one post-Cell/pre-Buu

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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by Freeza Soldier #156 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:56 am

Scsigs wrote:
Jean0987654321 wrote:Nope. AND it NEVER will!! :D

DBZ is my childhood. Coming home from elementary and watching DBZ brings me the best memories
And that's fine. Nostalgia is fine, just don't let it get in the way of rationality. Kai's dub is better in pretty much every way. The Z dub doesn't hold up whatsoever & it's not where you go to get serious about the franchise anyways.
What was the point of this condescending response? No where did Jean say that one dub was better than the other. All they said was that Kai does not replace Z for them because they had fond memories of watching Z when they were a kid. What does any of that have to do with people who watch Z not being “serious” about the franchise?

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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by Scsigs » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:34 pm

Jean0987654321 wrote:
Scsigs wrote:
Jean0987654321 wrote:Nope. AND it NEVER will!! :D

DBZ is my childhood. Coming home from elementary and watching DBZ brings me the best memories
And that's fine. Nostalgia is fine, just don't let it get in the way of rationality. Kai's dub is better in pretty much every way. The Z dub doesn't hold up whatsoever & it's not where you go to get serious about the franchise anyways.
Rationality is also fine but to say that Z Kai "replaced" Z? Not too fine, IMO. I did like most of the fillers in Z especially the one post-Cell/pre-Buu
Episodic filler is fine because you can easily skip over them if you don't like them, but I disagree with the filler that adds scenes to fights that bog down the pace of them exponentially. While sometimes expansive fights can be fun, DBZ's fights can drag to a halt as a result of them. The fact that the Frieza fight wears out its welcome at a point & is THE longest fight in anime history only accentuates that criticism. Kai's version of the fight is paced a lot better without a lot of the fluff. I think that even the people that worked on Z would agree because they just had to make stuff up to make the anime have slow pacing so it didn't matter to cut it out in Kai.

Personally, I enjoy good pacing that keeps focus on the story & a good dub to go with it over a bloated mess that detracts from the overall product & stops you from enjoying it. I have the same problem with Super's adaptation of Battle of Gods' story. They made a plot that was only meant for a 2-hour movie, & is much more enjoyable in that medium because of some of the storytelling elements they put into it, into a 14-episode, 6-7-hour anime arc by dragging some things out really unnecessarily.
Resurrection F has the opposite problem, though. They gave an 1.5-hour movie a 13-episode arc adaptation & embellished on what they should've, which was a full welcome because that movie should've been where Super started, coming off the heels of the Battle of Gods movie & using a TV series to keep the momentum going in my opinion. That was a story worthy of a TV show arc to begin with, but was condensed into a movie. Toriyama's a manga author who's mostly used to writing something that takes as long as it needs to to play out, all writers like him are, so his way of storytelling benefits a serialized manga/TV show approach more than a movie most of the time (you could probably condense the first arc of Dragon Ball, or even Z's first arc, into a movie & be fine, but there'd be a bit missing). However, there should be some things included in the arc to tell a better story, but that was up to the anime staff to (not) do.

I mean, if you enjoy the long stretches of unnecessary filler that you could easily cut out & not lose a thing if you checked out completely for a few minutes, ok. If you enjoy the episodic filler, great. There's a reason Super's been doing episodic episodes in between arcs, since some of the other characters need the spotlight as well, or they feel they can entertain for a few weeks until the next major arc, as well as give the previous arcs some cooldown time, which we don't normally see in a lot of Shonen anime & manga, so I appreciate the effort, but if it's an anime directly adapted from a manga that doesn't have those elements, I don't always see the point, sorry.
Freeza Soldier #156 wrote:What was the point of this condescending response? No where did Jean say that one dub was better than the other. All they said was that Kai does not replace Z for them because they had fond memories of watching Z when they were a kid. What does any of that have to do with people who watch Z not being “serious” about the franchise?
I mean, I get what you're saying, but a not of people who both type like Jean did & says that DBZ was their childhood end up saying Kai's a great product in of itself. More so, they'd say that Kai isn't nearly as good, despite it being almost the same show, just with a better dub & the majority of the filler shaved off, which actually improves the pacing of the show overall because it's not bogged down by bad pacing or too much fluff.
I think I answered the last guy better, so see that response for a more in-depth answer. As for the "serious" thing, I was parotting a thing Chris Sabat said about Z VS Kai, especially in the case of the dubs. Z's great for nostalgia & I'm not gonna knock it for being the initial big gateway for licensing, dubbing, & distributing anime shows & movies over here, but I find Kai's more worthy of a lot of the praise Z gets. Plus it's the only version of Z FUNimation treats with any kind of respect home video-wise for some reason. There you go.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
TFS getting shafted from the Kai TFC dub is a great travesty.
GT sucks, get over it if you disagree.
We'll see what happens to Vic.
Um...Listen to Waterparks.
That is all.
https://www.youtube.com/user/Scsigs

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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by Jean0987654321 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:29 pm

Scsigs wrote:
Jean0987654321 wrote:
Scsigs wrote: And that's fine. Nostalgia is fine, just don't let it get in the way of rationality. Kai's dub is better in pretty much every way. The Z dub doesn't hold up whatsoever & it's not where you go to get serious about the franchise anyways.
Rationality is also fine but to say that Z Kai "replaced" Z? Not too fine, IMO. I did like most of the fillers in Z especially the one post-Cell/pre-Buu
Episodic filler is fine because you can easily skip over them if you don't like them, but I disagree with the filler that adds scenes to fights that bog down the pace of them exponentially. While sometimes expansive fights can be fun, DBZ's fights can drag to a halt as a result of them. The fact that the Frieza fight wears out its welcome at a point & is THE longest fight in anime history only accentuates that criticism. Kai's version of the fight is paced a lot better without a lot of the fluff. I think that even the people that worked on Z would agree because they just had to make stuff up to make the anime have slow pacing so it didn't matter to cut it out in Kai.

Personally, I enjoy good pacing that keeps focus on the story & a good dub to go with it over a bloated mess that detracts from the overall product & stops you from enjoying it. I have the same problem with Super's adaptation of Battle of Gods' story. They made a plot that was only meant for a 2-hour movie, & is much more enjoyable in that medium because of some of the storytelling elements they put into it, into a 14-episode, 6-7-hour anime arc by dragging some things out really unnecessarily.
Resurrection F has the opposite problem, though. They gave an 1.5-hour movie a 13-episode arc adaptation & embellished on what they should've, which was a full welcome because that movie should've been where Super started, coming off the heels of the Battle of Gods movie & using a TV series to keep the momentum going in my opinion. That was a story worthy of a TV show arc to begin with, but was condensed into a movie. Toriyama's a manga author who's mostly used to writing something that takes as long as it needs to to play out, all writers like him are, so his way of storytelling benefits a serialized manga/TV show approach more than a movie most of the time (you could probably condense the first arc of Dragon Ball, or even Z's first arc, into a movie & be fine, but there'd be a bit missing). However, there should be some things included in the arc to tell a better story, but that was up to the anime staff to (not) do.

I mean, if you enjoy the long stretches of unnecessary filler that you could easily cut out & not lose a thing if you checked out completely for a few minutes, ok. If you enjoy the episodic filler, great. There's a reason Super's been doing episodic episodes in between arcs, since some of the other characters need the spotlight as well, or they feel they can entertain for a few weeks until the next major arc, as well as give the previous arcs some cooldown time, which we don't normally see in a lot of Shonen anime & manga, so I appreciate the effort, but if it's an anime directly adapted from a manga that doesn't have those elements, I don't always see the point, sorry.
Freeza Soldier #156 wrote:What was the point of this condescending response? No where did Jean say that one dub was better than the other. All they said was that Kai does not replace Z for them because they had fond memories of watching Z when they were a kid. What does any of that have to do with people who watch Z not being “serious” about the franchise?
I mean, I get what you're saying, but a not of people who both type like Jean did & says that DBZ was their childhood end up saying Kai's a great product in of itself. More so, they'd say that Kai isn't nearly as good, despite it being almost the same show, just with a better dub & the majority of the filler shaved off, which actually improves the pacing of the show overall because it's not bogged down by bad pacing or too much fluff.
I think I answered the last guy better, so see that response for a more in-depth answer. As for the "serious" thing, I was parotting a thing Chris Sabat said about Z VS Kai, especially in the case of the dubs. Z's great for nostalgia & I'm not gonna knock it for being the initial big gateway for licensing, dubbing, & distributing anime shows & movies over here, but I find Kai's more worthy of a lot of the praise Z gets. Plus it's the only version of Z FUNimation treats with any kind of respect home video-wise for some reason. There you go.
I've watched Kai twice. It's fine but I wouldn't say it "replaced" Z. I'm not even saying that Z is better than Z Kai

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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by TheOtherDude » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:15 am

Scsigs wrote:
Jean0987654321 wrote:Nope. AND it NEVER will!! :D

DBZ is my childhood. Coming home from elementary and watching DBZ brings me the best memories
And that's fine. Nostalgia is fine, just don't let it get in the way of rationality. Kai's dub is better in pretty much every way. The Z dub doesn't hold up whatsoever & it's not where you go to get serious about the franchise anyways.
What do you mean by rationality? This is all opinion based. I prefer Z over Kai any day and it has nothing to do with nostalgia. You obviously prefer Kai dub. That’s fine. It doesn’t make you better than anyone else because it’s your preference. You people seem to have a very condescending attitude towards people who don’t agree with you.

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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by Bridgeman » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:27 am

No, it hasn't. Certain scenes, such as Goku's 20x Kaioken Kamehameha against Frieza, Goku going Super Saiyan for the first time, Vegeta going Super Saiyan on-screen for the first time, Gohan going Super Saiyan 2 for the first time, etc etc etc I will always prefer the original Funimation dub. Plus, I actually like the small filler tidbits in the original dub and even the Garlic Jr. saga. And Bruce Faulconer's music plays a big part in this.

Ofcourse, I recognize that objectively Kai is a much better dub of the anime than the original. It stays closer to the manga, the sound quality is much better, and it has better voice actors. Chris Ayres is a much closer match to Frieza's japanese voice, even though I will always have a soft spot for Linda Young's portrayal. (Also, I still love Australian Zarbon).

Having said that, if I want to be as close to the source material as possible, I'd rather read the manga than watch Kai anyway. Even Kai omits tiny little details that the manga does specify. If I'm going to watch the anime, I'd rather watch it as it was in my childhood, fully realizing that a lot of the stuff being said is just plain wrong.

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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by Scsigs » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:55 am

TheOtherDude wrote:
Scsigs wrote:
Jean0987654321 wrote:Nope. AND it NEVER will!! :D

DBZ is my childhood. Coming home from elementary and watching DBZ brings me the best memories
And that's fine. Nostalgia is fine, just don't let it get in the way of rationality. Kai's dub is better in pretty much every way. The Z dub doesn't hold up whatsoever & it's not where you go to get serious about the franchise anyways.
What do you mean by rationality? This is all opinion based. I prefer Z over Kai any day and it has nothing to do with nostalgia. You obviously prefer Kai dub. That’s fine. It doesn’t make you better than anyone else because it’s your preference. You people seem to have a very condescending attitude towards people who don’t agree with you.
And you base that off of 1 comment I made here. I don't think I'm better than anyone for liking a better dub of a recut of an anime though I do judge the reasonings, of which the only ones I've heard are opinion-based as well.
Here's my rationality for not liking the Z dub, but loving Kai's. Better translations & dub scripts, better acting, the recasts mostly fit the characters (some better than their original VAs, some on the same level, some not as great but passable, & some that grew on me), the home releases & remasters don't give me an aneurism for bad remastering (TFC notwithstanding because they didn't make the recut 4:3 before cropping it, but even then, I can mostly get over that because the dub's better & the cloring doesn't make my eyes bleed), no stupid or extra/useless dialogue that's only there to have no silence to keep the kids' attention because adults think they need ritalin to pay attention to shit, no replacement score to fight over (Yamamoto's plagiarized tracks notwithstanding), & an overall relaxed & confident feel. Like, the Kai dub feels like they were relaxed & confident going into it. The Z dub never gave me that impression because of how rushed & overthought the dialogue felt, which makes sense because all of the actors were amateurs, Sabat voiced all of the tertiary & secondary characters because they didn't have a big enough talent pool or budget, & a lot of the lines were just dumb that weren't called for.
The Z dub was made at a time of anime dubbing that studios felt the need to alter the scripts, FUNi was a VERY different company, & the standards were lower across the board for anime dubs. It can be entertaining, but I'll take an accurate dub over one that can only be entertaining sometimes anyday, sorry. Most every opposite argument I hear are opinion based & ones based in nostalgia. If you can make coherent arguments not steeped in nostalgia or just based on opinions, I'll hear you out, but it's all majorly opinions at the end of the day.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
TFS getting shafted from the Kai TFC dub is a great travesty.
GT sucks, get over it if you disagree.
We'll see what happens to Vic.
Um...Listen to Waterparks.
That is all.
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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by snaku » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:53 pm

No question. While the dub had gotten a little better by the Buu saga, the rest of the show was offensively bad. Terrible scripts, amateur acting, and that music that would not shut up. I've always wanted to get my kid into DB early, so an English dub was always going to be a necessity, and I'm so glad a good English dub exists with Kai now.

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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by Logania » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:23 am

Absolutely. The old dub is how I got into the series, but years later and I can't stand watching it. Slow paced, cheesy dialogue that breaks the mood at times (mainly involving Freeza Saga) and Faulconers soundtrack while having a few nice themes (Gohan vs Freeza mainly) it never stopped playing even during scenes where it was really not fitting. It got better each saga after the next, but it still feels 90's and aged quite badly.

Kai has over 10+ years of experience from Funimation and it shows. Dialogue flows nice, acting is greatly improved and the music is a lot better (Although I'll miss Yamamotos soundtrack for Kai but what can you do.) May sound a bit much but after collecting all Blu-Rays of Kai, I threw out the other box sets of the older dub, since there's nothing I can't have and more in the Kai set.
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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by Tylerman29 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:20 pm

Yeah I actually had the DBZ Blu-ray box set ordered on amazon...then watched a few Z dub clips on youtube....promptly canceled. I'm good with Kai. There are really only 3 good faulconer tracks that add to certain scenes, and I can just watch those scenes on youtube. I just wish the Final Chapters release didn't have so many problems.

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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by Spider-Man » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:32 pm

The funi dub is unbearable to watch upon rewatching it,Z kai is much better.

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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by Scsigs » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:55 am

Spider-Man wrote:The funi dub is unbearable to watch upon rewatching it,Z kai is much better.
It's even worse if you don't have nostalgia for it. I can get through Yugioh's dub easier than I can get through Z's.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
TFS getting shafted from the Kai TFC dub is a great travesty.
GT sucks, get over it if you disagree.
We'll see what happens to Vic.
Um...Listen to Waterparks.
That is all.
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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by thaman91 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:06 am

Nope it has not replaced Z. Both versions have enough unique positive attributes that allow me to enjoy both (Z: the style of dialogue & its delivery, the Faulconer music....... Kai: better & more consistent acting, Yamamoto music).

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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by Tylerman29 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:32 pm

I guess by style you mean like..a parody of what DBZ ACTUALLY is.

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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by thaman91 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:16 pm

Tylerman29 wrote:I guess by style you mean like..a parody of what DBZ ACTUALLY is.
Nope, that's not what I mean.

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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by Muffin Man » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:09 pm

I think I'm finally getting over the last remnants of my nostalgia for the original dub, after rewatching The Final Chapters again lately. I'm really starting to fully appreciate just how much the Funimation actors have improved over the years. And even though people always criticized TFC for not cutting as much as the original Kai, it still has better pacing than the DBZ version (and it doesn't have the lame afterlife scenes with Dabura, which I always hated).

Plus, it's just really awesome that I can watch DB to DBZ Kai to DBZ Kai TFC and have the voice actors progressing and improving in chronological sequence, unlike the old dub that had everything all flopped around and backwards.

So yeah, it's safe to say that Kai has fully replaced DBZ for me now.

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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by Danfun64 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:41 pm

Muffin Man wrote:I think I'm finally getting over the last remnants of my nostalgia for the original dub
So you don't care for the stuff Kai didn't cover, like the filler arcs (Garlic Jr and Afterlife Tournament) and the movies/specials? Or at the very least, you don't care for their dubs? (fandubs for Bardock possibly notwithstanding)
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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by Muffin Man » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:39 pm

Danfun64 wrote:
Muffin Man wrote:I think I'm finally getting over the last remnants of my nostalgia for the original dub
So you don't care for the stuff Kai didn't cover, like the filler arcs (Garlic Jr and Afterlife Tournament) and the movies/specials? Or at the very least, you don't care for their dubs? (fandubs for Bardock possibly notwithstanding)
Garlic Jr. was okay, but nothing I'm losing sleep over missing. The Other World tournament was cool, I do miss that, but I also don't miss the inconsistency caused by Pikkon OHKOing Super Perfect Cell and then evenly matching SSj Goku. I also miss the driving episode, but I can always watch that separately like it's a mini special. And likewise with the movies and Bardock/Trunks specials, I can just watch those separately since they aren't directly connected to the series.

The filler I miss the most is the stuff before the battle against the saiyans. I thought that filler was a perfect build-up between Radditz and Nappa/Vegeta. But at the same time, once we actually get to the battle against the saiyans, it's way more fun to watch the Kai version since it's not constantly interrupted by pointless filler.

The original version still has its strengths, but I'm not going to jump back and forth between two versions during a single viewing, and if I'm going to marathon the series it will be the Kai version. The only time I'll watch the OG version nowadays is when I want to just watch a couple episodes here and there.

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Re: As A FUNi Dub Fan, Has Z Kai Replaced Z for you?

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:34 am

Scsigs wrote:It's even worse if you don't have nostalgia for it. I can get through Yugioh's dub easier than I can get through Z's.
Well, Yu-Gi-Oh's dub's problems were almost entirely down to censorship; the acting was solid, the replacement score was fine... If it wasn't for the censorship, it'd be a pretty good dub overall.
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