Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

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Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed May 29, 2019 5:53 am

It's been said several times on these forums that Sabat wanted Scott McNeil to take over the role of Piccolo in Funimation's dub of Kai.

This claim, although never clarified appears to be accepted by some posters here, so I'm wondering has there been anything to validate it?

I've personally never heard Sabat confirm this on Twitter or at any of his numerous con convention appearances. I have heard him praise McNeil's performance before. Could it have been a comment on McNeil's Piccolo that was misconstrued and interpreted to mean he would have liked to see him continue in Kai when that was not what Sabat meant?

While I love Sabat's Piccolo I still prefer McNeil, and had this came to pass I would have had mixed feelings. On one hand it would have been great as we most likely would have gotten McNeil to play Piccolo for the new movies, Final Chapters and Super too assuming they got around the Union rules (which they seemed to have done with Brian Drummond and Veronica Taylor being cast and credited in Super). On the other hand it may have hurt Ocean Kai as it would have one less selling point.
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Re: Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by Robo4900 » Wed May 29, 2019 11:49 am

I've seen this rumour make the rounds, but I've never seen a source on it, never been able to track down an origin point for it...

Personally, if this had happened, I think it could've been rather fantastic. McNeil has always been the best English Piccolo, and him doing more will always be a good thing. I don't imagine union stuff would have got in the way much, the main issue would likely be that of pay. I imagine getting McNeil to do Piccolo is quite a bit more expensive than getting Sabat to do it. If the idea of McNeil playing Piccolo really was thrown around among the Kai casting guys, I imagine this was the main issue that would have caused them to decide against it.
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Re: Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by WittyUsername » Wed May 29, 2019 6:10 pm

I have trouble believing that Sabat would give up his second biggest role just like that.

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Re: Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Wed May 29, 2019 8:00 pm

Getting Scott McNeil for 98 episodes would have been way too expensive. For FMA, he didn't have many episodes IIRC.

Still, Sabat did a great job improving as Piccolo and I'm sure McNeil did too for the Ocean Kai.
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Re: Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu May 30, 2019 1:59 am

The mythical Canadian Kai got him back...
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Re: Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by Robo4900 » Thu May 30, 2019 12:32 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Thu May 30, 2019 1:59 am The mythical Canadian Kai got him back...
Hopefully Wow launches soon so we can actually hear it. :D
WittyUsername wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 6:10 pm I have trouble believing that Sabat would give up his second biggest role just like that.
I'm not so sure. Judging from stuff Sabat's said at panels, he loves playing Vegeta, and he really does enjoy being in Dragon Ball, but Piccolo is sort of just another role for him. He puts in his all, naturally, because he's a good actor, and playing Piccolo is part of his job, but from what I've heard him say about it, I'd totally believe that he'd have been happy to bring McNeil in to replace him.

But, I don't think bringing McNeil in as a member of the main cast of Funi's Kai dub would have worked out, sadly, whether or not it was seriously considered. So, Sabat stepped up, did his job, and as with basically everyone else in Kai -- whether they're replacing an old casting, or reprising an old role -- he improved on the work in Funi's Z dub by leaps and bounds, and has tried to maintain that standard ever since.

That's my take on the situation, anyway.
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Re: Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by TheGreatness25 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:52 am

I don't think that it would be too expensive to get McNeil. If the underground, unknown Ocean version of Kai could get him, surely Funimation could too. It's not like they'd have to fly him out to do it; he could walk into a local recording studio and deliver his lines there while on a video call with Sabat. It's the 21st century and that's how these things are done.

I think it's very simple -- if Sabat wanted him to do it, most likely he'd have the power to. Isn't Sabat the voice director?

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Re: Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:34 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:52 am I don't think that it would be too expensive to get McNeil. If the underground, unknown Ocean version of Kai could get him, surely Funimation could too.
It's unaired so far, but unaired =/= low budget.

Realistically, Ocean actors have always been higher-paid than Funi actors, because Ocean are union, Funi are not. Ocean Kai probably cost quite a lot more to produce than Funi Kai; the actors would all be higher-paid, the cast was likely larger, they did a lot of editing. Only thing that was probably cheaper was producing a new score, since Toei charge a lot for their score royalties.
Remember, a lot of the reason things moved to Texas was because it did away with unions (rules like "no pay for screams" were able to hold; Ian Corlett implied this was part of the reason for the move away from Vancouver), and the line rates were even lower (if they were in fact paid by the line; it's entirely possible they were paid for their time in the early days). And the union rules tightened up in Vancouver because of Dragon Ball, so in 2010, while the Texas guys were treated better than they were in '99, the Vancouver guys were also treated much better than they were in '96.

By all rights, Ocean Kai was likely not a cheap production by any means. But unfortunately, whatever network deal was in place fell apart, and no other network showed interest in picking it up until Wow started picking up steam October before last. But because it's a channel that's still gestating, we likely won't even start hearing news of its debut for another couple of months or more.

It's not like Ocean Kai is unique in being an expensive production that ended up not seeing the light of day. It's only unique because we knew about it early enough for it to have some fairly well-publicised (among the fandom, anyway) opportunities to air, which either didn't pan out, or are still gestating.

And because of this mystery vibe, it has the feel of some underground, obscure, almost off-brand production.

See also: The Westwood dub. It feels cheaper because it was super-rushed and largely thrown together from whatever could be assembled quickly (the score, for instance, was just whatever library music Ocean's editors could use royalty-free), but the actors were most certainly paid more than Funi's cast, and the cast pool was quite a bit larger.

TL;DR:
Yes, pay very well could have been an issue.
TheGreatness25 wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:52 am It's not like they'd have to fly him out to do it; he could walk into a local recording studio and deliver his lines there while on a video call with Sabat. It's the 21st century and that's how these things are done.

I think it's very simple -- if Sabat wanted him to do it, most likely he'd have the power to. Isn't Sabat the voice director?
The pay issues aside, there's also potential union roadblocks; a non-union Texas show casting a union Vancouver actor as a regular cast member for years on end? The paperwork would likely get in the way, and it may exacerbate the pay issues.

However, admittedly, if they could figure out a way to do it, realistically Sabat wouldn't even have to voice call him; Sean Schemmel has a separate voice director who works with him these days, so Funi could have hired a Vancouver-based director to handle McNeil's recordings. And with this setup in place, they could have dropped in a few fun cameos similar to Brian Drummond's Jelly Vegeta, since they'd have an established way of getting Vancouver actors known for their Ocean work to get recordings to Funimation.

But realistically, the paperwork involved in this stuff would be messy, and bringing in the Vancouver actors as regulars would just be quite a lot more expensive than Funi's used to paying for their actors.
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Re: Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:32 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:52 am I don't think that it would be too expensive to get McNeil. If the underground, unknown Ocean version of Kai could get him, surely Funimation could too.
Ocean is hardly some green low budget studio.
It was established long before Funi, which was built by DBZ
Robo4900 wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:34 pm Realistically, Ocean actors have always been higher-paid than Funi actors, because Ocean are union
Ian quit because the pay was shit and he said Ocean paid the actors low rates.

Only thing that was probably cheaper was pro since Toei charge a lot for their score royalties.
We keep hearing this despite little if anything to back it up.

Remember, a lot of the reason things moved to Texas was because it did away with unions (rules like "no pay for screams" were able to hold; Ian Corlett implied this was part of the reason for the move away from Vancouver),
It was more likely a case of saving on subcontracting fees as well as air fees since Barry Watson was going back and forth from Texas to Vancouver.


See also: The Westwood dub. It feels cheaper because it was super-rushed and largely thrown together from whatever could be assembled quickly (the score, for instance, was just whatever library music Ocean's editors could use royalty-free), but the actors were most certainly paid more than Funi's cast, and the cast pool was quite a bit larger.
It honestly didn’t feel any cheaper than the Funi Z dub tbh. I know people (not you obviously) like to make the Westwood dub their punching bag but it was just the Funi Z dub with better actors giving sub par performances and derpy Saturday morning cartoon music instead of fauxcore music,

The Funi dub does have the benefit of being paired with the Kikuchi track for more than just three movies but that didn’t apply pre-2007 :P

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Re: Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:06 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:32 pm Ian quit because the pay was shit and he said Ocean paid the actors low rates.
Sure. And Funi paid even less.

(Though I will note: Apparently Ian Corlett quit not just because of the pay, but because he wasn't paid enough to deal with the producers/directors from Funi, who he used to butt heads with)
MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:32 pm
Toei charge a lot for their score royalties.
We keep hearing this despite little if anything to back it up.
Fair. I'm pretty sure someone reputable here had a source on it, but I can't remember who.
Still, I'll concede that point.
MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:32 pm It was more likely a case of saving on subcontracting fees as well as air fees since Barry Watson was going back and forth from Texas to Vancouver.
Not really.
Honestly, I think there were tons of factors; people involved in the production on both sides have given reasons, including Sabat mentioning Barry Watson flying back and forth.
Realistically, there were probably lots of different factors that made it more expensive, which Funi wanted to ditch. Funi were pretty infamous at the time for penny pinching in pretty much every conceivable way.
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Re: Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:21 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:06 pm Sure. And Funi paid even less.
Any proof they paid less? Obviously it was cheaper for Funimation to took over the dubbing themselves but that doesn’t necessarily equate to lower pay. They used less actors than Ocean for one. Sabat very well could have been paid roughly the same as Mcneil and Drummond and Ted cole but he was also 40 percent of the cast in 1999. Less actors, no need to pay third party fees, save money on air fare.

Though I will note: Apparently Ian Corlett quit not just because of the pay, but because he wasn't paid enough to deal with the producers/directors from Funi, who he used to butt heads with)
He got along with Barry Watson, who apparently was the main Funi guy Corlett had to deal with. From what I read he pretty much had all his beef with Ocean.


Fair. I'm pretty sure someone reputable here had a source on it, but I can't remember who.
Still, I'll concede that point.
The practice of replacement scores has pretty much stopped for the most part, it was never a thing on anime dubs that were release direct to home video (aside from special cases like Tank Police) and it almost exclusively happened to anime that was licensed in North America (nobody but Funimation and Ocean used replacement scores for Z)

It’s an obvious myth that people continue to latch onto.

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Re: Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by SX10 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:08 pm

Hey guys, I dunno if it helps, but when speaking with Peter Kelamis himself at Digi-Con here in Alfreton last year during the meet & greet, dubbing was horrendously underpaid. Grunts and screams didn't count as lines, which busted throats, and actors were paid depending on how many lines they had. He said he wasn't exaggerating and although the exact figure escapes me, it was definitely somewhere lower than $15 per line or something (I have the correct figure in a much earlier page on the Ocean Kai thread). Possibly even lower than $10.

I asked Brian Drummond if he missed the show and he did, but he also said that when they found out what the guys in Texas were making in comparison to their pay on the show, that they could keep it as far as they were concerned. So the in-house cast were paid less (in the beginning, anyway). They were just people who answered ads in local advertising.

Apparently Dragon Ball forced huge legal changes in the industry because it was just incredibly demanding with very little return.
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Re: Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by TheGreatness25 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:12 pm

You're discussing a pay scale from 20 years ago, though.

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Re: Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by Scsigs » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:26 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 5:53 am It's been said several times on these forums that Sabat wanted Scott McNeil to take over the role of Piccolo in Funimation's dub of Kai.

This claim, although never clarified appears to be accepted by some posters here, so I'm wondering has there been anything to validate it?

I've personally never heard Sabat confirm this on Twitter or at any of his numerous con convention appearances. I have heard him praise McNeil's performance before. Could it have been a comment on McNeil's Piccolo that was misconstrued and interpreted to mean he would have liked to see him continue in Kai when that was not what Sabat meant?

While I love Sabat's Piccolo I still prefer McNeil, and had this came to pass I would have had mixed feelings. On one hand it would have been great as we most likely would have gotten McNeil to play Piccolo for the new movies, Final Chapters and Super too assuming they got around the Union rules (which they seemed to have done with Brian Drummond and Veronica Taylor being cast and credited in Super). On the other hand it may have hurt Ocean Kai as it would have one less selling point.
HAS Veronica Taylor actually joined the SAG or something? As far as I know, she hasn't. She worked at 4Kids for the better part of a decade & change & only within the last few years moved to California for more work. 4Kids didn't use SAG actors, just ask TMNT fans, & I doubt just because she's working for Viz now that she joined the SAG. She was announced under her own name, something James Marsters wasn't when the cast of the Future Trunks arc wasn't. Brian Drummond is also under the Canadian Union, which must have different regulations & calls than the SAG & he was working for an American company, so I doubt there was a lot of legalese to work through. FUNi has hired McNeil in the past for One Piece & FMA, so I don't know if it would've been too expensive to retain him full-time, especially when other actors record their parts over the phone in studios in California &, in Brian's case, Canada, which streamlines the process of voice recording. However, I highly doubt Sabat wanted to give up one of his biggest roles in the franchise.
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Re: Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by TVfan721 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:24 am

There's a reason VA's do so many conventions around North America. That's where they get a bulk of their income from since it doesn't pay much to be a voice actor.

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Re: Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by funrush » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:06 pm

Not only would pay have been a concern, but maybe also fan backlash.

Many of Kai's recasts made a good deal of sense. Nadolny is too raspy to play a 4 year old, Vollmer was grating, Young sounded too much like a grandma and supposedly couldn't keep up with the new dialogue. Sabat as Piccolo on the other hand is a decent casting and you don't hear him sound similar to Vegeta much if ever.

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Re: Chris Sabat wanting Scott McNeil to play Piccolo - A Kai Urban Legend

Post by Scsigs » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:17 pm

funrush wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:06 pm Not only would pay have been a concern, but maybe also fan backlash.

Many of Kai's recasts made a good deal of sense. Nadolny is too raspy to play a 4 year old, Vollmer was grating, Young sounded too much like a grandma and supposedly couldn't keep up with the new dialogue. Sabat as Piccolo on the other hand is a decent casting and you don't hear him sound similar to Vegeta much if ever.
Well, most of the recasts had to do with actor availability or creative differences. Nadolny apparently disagreed with Sabat when they talked about how she would play Gohan in Kai, Vollmer had moved to New Orleans & hadn't acted in much for them beforehand outside of the odd video game (in my opinion, Rial's not perfect casting either since SHE can get rather grating as well when Bulma's being a bitch, which she was a LOT before she had Trunks), & Young, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they come out & say that they just wanted a more accurately-voiced Frieza in the dub, since Chris Ayres plays the character way better than Linda Young, since he doesn't sound like a chain smoking grandma & is a legitimately better actor.

Yeah, even back during the Z days, Sabat's Piccolo & Vegeta were very different from each other. Granted, they're similar voices. Lanipator has said that he can't effectively voice them back to back in the same recording sessions for DBZA, which I bet Sabat couldn't either, Since Lani's a good mimic for both of those voices.
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