Buu Saga Filler?

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Buu Saga Filler?

Post by ZodiacBeast » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:38 am

I have read that the Kai version of the Buu saga didn't have as much filler removed from it as past story arcs. Can anyone tell me exactly what was left in, or at least point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance.

(Inb4 someone says "just watch it". That's 60-something episodes, so if I don't have to I won't.)

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Re: Buu Saga Filler?

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:36 am

It's a bit difficult to concisely describe what's left in over those 60 episodes. As opposed to the first three story arcs, it's more that they just kept leaving in incidental things here and there which collectively add up over time, rather than something like "these five specific episodes were left in" (though I guess even that is kind of a thing here, too). Think of things like all the villains down in Hell watching Goku's fight with Boo: completely extraneous, 100% filler material, yet left in for Kai.

Our episode guide here on the website is complete for the Japanese broadcast of the Boo arc (which, you'll note, is slightly different from the international broadcast, in that the Japanese broadcast is actually cut down from the international broadcast, which clocks in at 69 episodes). That might at least get you going, in that you can get an overview and also check the key info for which episodes/chapters they correspond to in the original version.
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Re: Buu Saga Filler?

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:26 pm

IIRC the main difference between the Japanese and international Boo Kai is that several filler-only episodes were cut from the beginning for Japan? Some other trims and changes were made too, I think. And they used different OPs/EDs.

That does provide one part of the answer; at least a few of the early episodes of Kai TFC were just all filler. I think episode... 3? Is literally just one of the filler-only Z episodes from Gohan's high school, but with a re-recorded voice track, different music, and it's green and cropped to widescreen.
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Re: Buu Saga Filler?

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:29 pm

It seems like Toei just didn’t care when it came to the Boo arc for Kai. If I recall correctly, Kai’s version of the Boo arc wasn’t even originally supposed to air on Japanese television. It was pretty much made specifically for an international audience. If that’s the case, it would explain their utter laziness when it came to trimming down that arc. Toei probably figured that it wasn’t worth the trouble.

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Re: Buu Saga Filler?

Post by ZodiacBeast » Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:41 pm

Thanks for the replies!

I'm going to look through the episode guide.

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Re: Buu Saga Filler?

Post by Metalwario64 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:26 am

The editing in general is reaaaaallly sloppy too. When SS3 Goku is fighting Fat Buu, he teleports in front of him, and suddenly Buu is flying back as if he was kicked by Goku, which he did in Z but in Kai they just cut straight to Goku grabbing his head tentacle thing while he's flying back from the kick Goku gave him in Z, which Kai removed, so it's very awkward.

Another similar thing is when SS3 Goku is fighting Kid Buu. After Vegeta declares Goku to be number one, they use some footage from the beginning of the next Z episode where Goku gets his orange outer shirt part of his dougi ripped in half, and then suddenly they start using footage from the end of the Z number "You are number one" episode again and his 'gi is suddenly intact again.

The same inconsistency happens in the beginning of the next Kai episode as well.
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Re: Buu Saga Filler?

Post by Witty User Name » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:49 am

WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:29 pm
It seems like Toei just didn’t care when it came to the Boo arc for Kai. If I recall correctly, Kai’s version of the Boo arc wasn’t even originally supposed to air on Japanese television. It was pretty much made specifically for an international audience. If that’s the case, it would explain their utter laziness when it came to trimming down that arc. Toei probably figured that it wasn’t worth the trouble.
Why would they care less for what's made for international market?

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Re: Buu Saga Filler?

Post by Valerius Dover » Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:39 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:26 pm
IIRC the main difference between the Japanese and international Boo Kai is that several filler-only episodes were cut from the beginning for Japan? Some other trims and changes were made too, I think. And they used different OPs/EDs.

That does provide one part of the answer; at least a few of the early episodes of Kai TFC were just all filler. I think episode... 3? Is literally just one of the filler-only Z episodes from Gohan's high school, but with a re-recorded voice track, different music, and it's green and cropped to widescreen.
Not quite. Episode 101 is the one in question, mostly lining up with Episode 203 from the original. However, they incorporated some scenes from 202 and 205 at the beginning.
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Re: Buu Saga Filler?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:35 am

The thing where the past defeated villains are shown watching Goku fighting Majin Boo/Buu and the ogres mention Goku's falling down to Hell should've been cut as well, considering that specific episode was among the many bits of filler material from the Saiyan arc in Kai 1.0 both small scenes and whole episodes that were completely cut out thus making the reference effectively unnecessary and pointless since said event effectively never happened since it didn't in the manga.

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Re: Buu Saga Filler?

Post by Witty User Name » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:19 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:35 am
The thing where the past defeated villains are shown watching Goku fighting Majin Boo/Buu and the ogres mention Goku's falling down to Hell should've been cut as well, considering that specific episode was among the many bits of filler material from the Saiyan arc in Kai 1.0 both small scenes and whole episodes that were completely cut out thus making the reference effectively unnecessary and pointless since said event effectively never happened since it didn't in the manga.
Not only it didn't happen in the manga, it also creates an inconsistency in the anime itself i. e., contradictory information.

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Re: Buu Saga Filler?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:03 pm

Witty User Name wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:19 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:35 am
The thing where the past defeated villains are shown watching Goku fighting Majin Boo/Buu and the ogres mention Goku's falling down to Hell should've been cut as well, considering that specific episode was among the many bits of filler material from the Saiyan arc in Kai 1.0 both small scenes and whole episodes that were completely cut out thus making the reference effectively unnecessary and pointless since said event effectively never happened since it didn't in the manga.
Not only it didn't happen in the manga, it also creates an inconsistency in the anime itself i. e., contradictory information.
I know right, which makes that bit being left in all the more bizarre since it's referring to an event that happened in a filler episode from Z which was entirely removed leading to said inconsistency. Again that is why things invented by Toei to pad the series out in relation to the manga's then concurrent run in Shonen Jump like Gohan's encounter with the saber tiger in episode 1, Princess Snake, the orphan/space orphan episode, Vegeta and Nappa on Arlia and Garlic Jr. were entirely removed given the more manga leaning angle i.e. "Toriyama cut" of Kai 1.0 though the Anoyo-ichi Budokai/Afterlife Tournament material sorta kinda made it in via the end of episode 098.

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Re: Buu Saga Filler?

Post by Witty User Name » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:04 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:03 pm
Witty User Name wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:19 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:35 am
The thing where the past defeated villains are shown watching Goku fighting Majin Boo/Buu and the ogres mention Goku's falling down to Hell should've been cut as well, considering that specific episode was among the many bits of filler material from the Saiyan arc in Kai 1.0 both small scenes and whole episodes that were completely cut out thus making the reference effectively unnecessary and pointless since said event effectively never happened since it didn't in the manga.
Not only it didn't happen in the manga, it also creates an inconsistency in the anime itself i. e., contradictory information.
I know right, which makes that bit being left in all the more bizarre since it's referring to an event that happened in a filler episode from Z which was entirely removed leading to said inconsistency. Again that is why things invented by Toei to pad the series out in relation to the manga's then concurrent run in Shonen Jump like Gohan's encounter with the saber tiger in episode 1, Princess Snake, the orphan/space orphan episode, Vegeta and Nappa on Arlia and Garlic Jr. were entirely removed given the more manga leaning angle i.e. "Toriyama cut" of Kai 1.0 though the Anoyo-ichi Budokai/Afterlife Tournament material sorta kinda made it in via the end of episode 098.
This is all very sad, because what could have been an quite enjoyable experience if they followed the manga all the way through, it is as if Kai 1.0 and Buu Kai were made by different people and crew with VERY different purposes and intentions.

It's sad Toei didn't give Kai the appropriate artistic effort it deserved, they should have cared more, like they did with DBS: Broly or even Super itself (well, opinions will vary on the merits of the latter, but I digress).

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Re: Buu Saga Filler?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:11 am

Witty User Name wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:04 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:03 pm
Witty User Name wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:19 pm


Not only it didn't happen in the manga, it also creates an inconsistency in the anime itself i. e., contradictory information.
I know right, which makes that bit being left in all the more bizarre since it's referring to an event that happened in a filler episode from Z which was entirely removed leading to said inconsistency. Again that is why things invented by Toei to pad the series out in relation to the manga's then concurrent run in Shonen Jump like Gohan's encounter with the saber tiger in episode 1, Princess Snake, the orphan/space orphan episode, Vegeta and Nappa on Arlia and Garlic Jr. were entirely removed given the more manga leaning angle i.e. "Toriyama cut" of Kai 1.0 though the Anoyo-ichi Budokai/Afterlife Tournament material sorta kinda made it in via the end of episode 098.
This is all very sad, because what could have been an quite enjoyable experience if they followed the manga all the way through, it is as if Kai 1.0 and Buu Kai were made by different people and crew with VERY different purposes and intentions.

It's sad Toei didn't give Kai the appropriate artistic effort it deserved, they should have cared more, like they did with DBS: Broly or even Super itself (well, opinions will vary on the merits of the latter, but I digress).
I know right, though Kai 1.0 was at least the better done of the two in terms of trying to be closer to the source and especially with getting rid of a large amount of the filler scenes and episodes such as the aforementioned ones that i've never personally cared for which also makes it a bit of a chore to watch OG Z itself. Now granted, there are some exceptions to Z's filler which i do in fact like such as the Afterlife Tournament and extended bits with Gohan's training in the wilderness but the vast majority don't interest me much and never has.

That's one of the allures of Kai to me aside from the much better dub by the FUNi cast, in providing a more streamlined version of the show that does away with all the extra anime only bits which was only created initially back in the day by Toei's writers to pad out time as Toriyama was still in the process of drawing the manga on a weekly basis as both DB and Z were airing, though when the former began on Japanese TV in 1986 there was a backlog of about a year's worth of chapters to adapt so they had more room and didn't need to worry quite as much about catching up. Even then, the extra material added to the original DB series wasn't done solely for padding purposes like most of Z's but expanded on the story and occasionally brought bits of character development and world building from time to time.

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Re: Buu Saga Filler?

Post by Witty User Name » Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:20 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:11 am
Witty User Name wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:04 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:03 pm


I know right, which makes that bit being left in all the more bizarre since it's referring to an event that happened in a filler episode from Z which was entirely removed leading to said inconsistency. Again that is why things invented by Toei to pad the series out in relation to the manga's then concurrent run in Shonen Jump like Gohan's encounter with the saber tiger in episode 1, Princess Snake, the orphan/space orphan episode, Vegeta and Nappa on Arlia and Garlic Jr. were entirely removed given the more manga leaning angle i.e. "Toriyama cut" of Kai 1.0 though the Anoyo-ichi Budokai/Afterlife Tournament material sorta kinda made it in via the end of episode 098.
This is all very sad, because what could have been an quite enjoyable experience if they followed the manga all the way through, it is as if Kai 1.0 and Buu Kai were made by different people and crew with VERY different purposes and intentions.

It's sad Toei didn't give Kai the appropriate artistic effort it deserved, they should have cared more, like they did with DBS: Broly or even Super itself (well, opinions will vary on the merits of the latter, but I digress).
I know right, though Kai 1.0 was at least the better done of the two in terms of trying to be closer to the source and especially with getting rid of a large amount of the filler scenes and episodes such as the aforementioned ones that i've never personally cared for which also makes it a bit of a chore to watch OG Z itself. Now granted, there are some exceptions to Z's filler which i do in fact like such as the Afterlife Tournament and extended bits with Gohan's training in the wilderness but the vast majority don't interest me much and never has.

That's one of the allures of Kai to me aside from the much better dub by the FUNi cast, in providing a more streamlined version of the show that does away with all the extra anime only bits which was only created initially back in the day by Toei's writers to pad out time as Toriyama was still in the process of drawing the manga on a weekly basis as both DB and Z were airing, though when the former began on Japanese TV in 1986 there was a backlog of about a year's worth of chapters to adapt so they had more room and didn't need to worry quite as much about catching up. Even then, the extra material added to the original DB series wasn't done solely for padding purposes like most of Z's but expanded on the story and occasionally brought bits of character development and world building from time to time.
Back in the day, I bought the Dragon Boxes because they were touted as ''the best version of the show around'' and were becoming ''rare'' (hence a collector's item), but I really never knew what made Z more attractive than Kai to most around here. IMO Kai is a much superior show because it follows the manga more closely, and the manga is very superior to the anime (again, IMO only, I know that there are people who disagree).

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Re: Buu Saga Filler?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:44 am

Witty User Name wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:20 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:11 am
Witty User Name wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:04 am


This is all very sad, because what could have been an quite enjoyable experience if they followed the manga all the way through, it is as if Kai 1.0 and Buu Kai were made by different people and crew with VERY different purposes and intentions.

It's sad Toei didn't give Kai the appropriate artistic effort it deserved, they should have cared more, like they did with DBS: Broly or even Super itself (well, opinions will vary on the merits of the latter, but I digress).
I know right, though Kai 1.0 was at least the better done of the two in terms of trying to be closer to the source and especially with getting rid of a large amount of the filler scenes and episodes such as the aforementioned ones that i've never personally cared for which also makes it a bit of a chore to watch OG Z itself. Now granted, there are some exceptions to Z's filler which i do in fact like such as the Afterlife Tournament and extended bits with Gohan's training in the wilderness but the vast majority don't interest me much and never has.

That's one of the allures of Kai to me aside from the much better dub by the FUNi cast, in providing a more streamlined version of the show that does away with all the extra anime only bits which was only created initially back in the day by Toei's writers to pad out time as Toriyama was still in the process of drawing the manga on a weekly basis as both DB and Z were airing, though when the former began on Japanese TV in 1986 there was a backlog of about a year's worth of chapters to adapt so they had more room and didn't need to worry quite as much about catching up. Even then, the extra material added to the original DB series wasn't done solely for padding purposes like most of Z's but expanded on the story and occasionally brought bits of character development and world building from time to time.
Back in the day, I bought the Dragon Boxes because they were touted as ''the best version of the show around'' and were becoming ''rare'' (hence a collector's item), but I really never knew what made Z more attractive than Kai to most around here. IMO Kai is a much superior show because it follows the manga more closely, and the manga is very superior to the anime (again, IMO only, I know that there are people who disagree).
Yeah, and aside from significantly reducing the episode count to 98 in Kai 1.0 from the equivalent 194 of DBZ from the Saiyan to Cell arcs it also shaved off most of the extra filler stuff that was anime-only. There was some small things here and there that didn't go but the majority of the biggest ones as previously mentioned were cut out and sped up the pacing to a much larger degree from Z as a result. Simply put, it's my preferred way to watch the series over OG Z namely to have a much more faithful to the manga experience and an actual good dub by FUNi's cast that i can actually watch and not constantly cringe or face palm.

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Re: Buu Saga Filler?

Post by Witty User Name » Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:11 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:44 am
Witty User Name wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:20 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:11 am


I know right, though Kai 1.0 was at least the better done of the two in terms of trying to be closer to the source and especially with getting rid of a large amount of the filler scenes and episodes such as the aforementioned ones that i've never personally cared for which also makes it a bit of a chore to watch OG Z itself. Now granted, there are some exceptions to Z's filler which i do in fact like such as the Afterlife Tournament and extended bits with Gohan's training in the wilderness but the vast majority don't interest me much and never has.

That's one of the allures of Kai to me aside from the much better dub by the FUNi cast, in providing a more streamlined version of the show that does away with all the extra anime only bits which was only created initially back in the day by Toei's writers to pad out time as Toriyama was still in the process of drawing the manga on a weekly basis as both DB and Z were airing, though when the former began on Japanese TV in 1986 there was a backlog of about a year's worth of chapters to adapt so they had more room and didn't need to worry quite as much about catching up. Even then, the extra material added to the original DB series wasn't done solely for padding purposes like most of Z's but expanded on the story and occasionally brought bits of character development and world building from time to time.
Back in the day, I bought the Dragon Boxes because they were touted as ''the best version of the show around'' and were becoming ''rare'' (hence a collector's item), but I really never knew what made Z more attractive than Kai to most around here. IMO Kai is a much superior show because it follows the manga more closely, and the manga is very superior to the anime (again, IMO only, I know that there are people who disagree).
Yeah, and aside from significantly reducing the episode count to 98 in Kai 1.0 from the equivalent 194 of DBZ from the Saiyan to Cell arcs it also shaved off most of the extra filler stuff that was anime-only. There was some small things here and there that didn't go but the majority of the biggest ones as previously mentioned were cut out and sped up the pacing to a much larger degree from Z as a result. Simply put, it's my preferred way to watch the series over OG Z namely to have a much more faithful to the manga experience and an actual good dub by FUNi's cast that i can actually watch and not constantly cringe or face palm.
I don't care for the new and improved FUNi's dub because I'm not American, but I definitely undertand where you're coming from.

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