Can't get into Kai

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Kokonoe
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Can't get into Kai

Post by Kokonoe » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:50 pm

Am I weird? For some reason the voices sound more professional but less expressive in many spots? Like Vegeta final flash is really uh constipated sounding?

Am I crazy?

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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by Matches Malone » Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:18 pm

I think it's perfectly normal to not like every part of a franchise as big as DB. If you can't get into Kai, then it's just not for you, it doesn't mean there's something wrong with it or your taste.

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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by Metalwario64 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:23 pm

I don't know... I mean, the Japanese side is what I'm most into, and while I used to prefer watching Kai's superior dub, I just don't really care much about it anymore, since I've begun watching Z almost exclusively again, and at this point I kind of feel more like watching the old Z dub since I get nostalgia out of that, and when I want to watch an actually good product, Z in Japanese is the best way to go.

I think the cheapness of Kai TFC and the poor Kikuchi placement in the first Kai is what has worn me out of Kai and made me just feel like watching the original again.
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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by Witty User Name » Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:59 pm

Kokonoe wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:50 pm
Am I weird? For some reason the voices sound more professional but less expressive in many spots? Like Vegeta final flash is really uh constipated sounding?

Am I crazy?
No. I have a friend IRL who can't stand Kai either, and he likes pretty much everything DB.

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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by funrush » Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:22 pm

Dub or sub?

I feel like the dub is much better than Z's. Because of the recasts/added VA experience, but especially because of the fixed translation, whereas the Z dub would just make shit up sometimes. There's moments where the Z dub is more raw and intense but I think the pros of Kai's dub outweigh the cons really strongly.

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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by Witty User Name » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:29 am

funrush wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:22 pm
Dub or sub?

I feel like the dub is much better than Z's. Because of the recasts/added VA experience, but especially because of the fixed translation, whereas the Z dub would just make shit up sometimes. There's moments where the Z dub is more raw and intense but I think the pros of Kai's dub outweigh the cons really strongly.
I wish I had not seen that video...

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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:17 am

Funi's Kai is still a deeply flawed dub, largely because they simply refused to let go of some of the really stupid shit from as early as '99 -- from iffy castings to certain jokes in the script that, for some reason, they added in for their Kai dub -- but because of just how bad Funi's Z dub is... Yeah, it's obviously an improvement. It's not actively bad, it's actually just... Pretty okay.
There is also some of the dialogue being pretty dense and deliveries being an odd combination of a little flat and a little forced (I get the feeling the actors were directed to be more "subtle", but they end up just emoting less, being less expressive...). But overall, it's an okay piece of work, and the actors are all clearly far more seasoned than they were originally, and there is actually an effort to somewhat faithfully render the original show in English.

On the Japanese side, it's a downgrade from Z in most ways -- some actors such as Roshi's are inferior replacements of the originals, the surviving cast are all old and tired, but it is easier for some to get into it due to the faster pace compared to Z. And the Japanese voice acting isn't bad by any means, they still put in great work, they're just not as good as they were when they were all alive and in their prime.

But also Kai has issues of its pace still being iffy (yes, it's faster than Z, but it's still not a super-well-paced show; it's uneven and arguably still way too slow in a lot of places), the remastering of the old footage is honestly pretty shitty (it's so blurry!! The only thing going for it is the colouring), the Yamamoto score is just okay, the Kikuchi score is not even as good as that, the Sumitomo score is outright crap... Actually Kai TFC in general is a real stinker; the remastering is almost as bad as Funi's Season BDs, the dub scripting got way worse (while Kai 1.0 had some stupid shit taken from the old dub, TFC amped that way up and added tons of its own brand of stupid shit), I hear the Japanese performances were pretty phoned in... The recutting is REALLY lazy, with some early filler-heavy episodes -- aside from the OP, ED, recap, and NEP -- being 1:1 copies of an original Z episode...

Kai is a mess of a show.
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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:47 pm

Robo's right that Kai is a mess of a show.

Even if the pacing is better than Z, I still prefer Z a lot more due to the Kikuchi music and the Japanese voice acting. Kai's dub is good, but honestly, if I ever wanted to go back to Kai, I think I'd watch it in Japanese even if the voice acting isn't as good as it was in Z, probably because I don't give a crap about dubs anymore. Rewatching some shows in Japanese has kind of made me change my minds a lot on certain dubs like Fullmetal Alchemist and Berserk.
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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:40 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:17 am
Funi's Kai is still a deeply flawed dub, largely because they simply refused to let go of some of the really stupid shit from as early as '99 -- from iffy castings to certain jokes in the script that, for some reason, they added in for their Kai dub -- but because of just how bad Funi's Z dub is... Yeah, it's obviously an improvement. It's not actively bad, it's actually just... Pretty okay.
There is also some of the dialogue being pretty dense and deliveries being an odd combination of a little flat and a little forced (I get the feeling the actors were directed to be more "subtle", but they end up just emoting less, being less expressive...). But overall, it's an okay piece of work, and the actors are all clearly far more seasoned than they were originally, and there is actually an effort to somewhat faithfully render the original show in English.

On the Japanese side, it's a downgrade from Z in most ways -- some actors such as Roshi's are inferior replacements of the originals, the surviving cast are all old and tired, but it is easier for some to get into it due to the faster pace compared to Z. And the Japanese voice acting isn't bad by any means, they still put in great work, they're just not as good as they were when they were all alive and in their prime.

But also Kai has issues of its pace still being iffy (yes, it's faster than Z, but it's still not a super-well-paced show; it's uneven and arguably still way too slow in a lot of places), the remastering of the old footage is honestly pretty shitty (it's so blurry!! The only thing going for it is the colouring), the Yamamoto score is just okay, the Kikuchi score is not even as good as that, the Sumitomo score is outright crap... Actually Kai TFC in general is a real stinker; the remastering is almost as bad as Funi's Season BDs, the dub scripting got way worse (while Kai 1.0 had some stupid shit taken from the old dub, TFC amped that way up and added tons of its own brand of stupid shit), I hear the Japanese performances were pretty phoned in... The recutting is REALLY lazy, with some early filler-heavy episodes -- aside from the OP, ED, recap, and NEP -- being 1:1 copies of an original Z episode...

Kai is a mess of a show.
I mean yeah, Kai 1.0's dub no doubt has it's flaws as you mention such as not going far enough with the casting/re casts (Schemmel's Kaio/King Kai.etc) but on the whole it's by far my preferred way to watch DBZ dubbed with FUNi's cast because i just simply cannot bring myself to watch the OG Z dub especially of the Freeza and Cell episodes given that in particular is the part of their history of dubbing where they were undeniably at their worst and most green point back in 1999/2000. It's not a perfect dub i do agree, but compared to nearly almost everything which came in the decade before it's decent for what it is as in their second stab at a genuine better attempt at doing the series as compared to when they first started voicing the characters. All in all, while there are quite a few things holding it back from being perfect i like that it gives me a relatively good way to watch the show in English without wanting to cringe unlike the old Z dub which always makes me laugh nowadays just from how poorly altered and amaturely voiced it truly was.

TFC/Kai 2.0 on the other hand...I'll pick it up eventually but it was definitely done with less care almost as an afterthought, basically because Toriko was doing pretty lousy in ratings on the Dream (later Strong) 9 timeslot it took over from 1.0 in 2011 and Toei needed something to replace it quickly even when they didn't initially intend to before relenting.

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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by Witty User Name » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:43 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:17 am
Funi's Kai is still a deeply flawed dub, largely because they simply refused to let go of some of the really stupid shit from as early as '99 -- from iffy castings to certain jokes in the script that, for some reason, they added in for their Kai dub -- but because of just how bad Funi's Z dub is... Yeah, it's obviously an improvement. It's not actively bad, it's actually just... Pretty okay.
There is also some of the dialogue being pretty dense and deliveries being an odd combination of a little flat and a little forced (I get the feeling the actors were directed to be more "subtle", but they end up just emoting less, being less expressive...). But overall, it's an okay piece of work, and the actors are all clearly far more seasoned than they were originally, and there is actually an effort to somewhat faithfully render the original show in English.

On the Japanese side, it's a downgrade from Z in most ways -- some actors such as Roshi's are inferior replacements of the originals, the surviving cast are all old and tired, but it is easier for some to get into it due to the faster pace compared to Z. And the Japanese voice acting isn't bad by any means, they still put in great work, they're just not as good as they were when they were all alive and in their prime.

But also Kai has issues of its pace still being iffy (yes, it's faster than Z, but it's still not a super-well-paced show; it's uneven and arguably still way too slow in a lot of places), the remastering of the old footage is honestly pretty shitty (it's so blurry!! The only thing going for it is the colouring), the Yamamoto score is just okay, the Kikuchi score is not even as good as that, the Sumitomo score is outright crap... Actually Kai TFC in general is a real stinker; the remastering is almost as bad as Funi's Season BDs, the dub scripting got way worse (while Kai 1.0 had some stupid shit taken from the old dub, TFC amped that way up and added tons of its own brand of stupid shit), I hear the Japanese performances were pretty phoned in... The recutting is REALLY lazy, with some early filler-heavy episodes -- aside from the OP, ED, recap, and NEP -- being 1:1 copies of an original Z episode...

Kai is a mess of a show.
Even as a fan of the concept of Kai, I can respect the level of argumentation put forth by Robo here. Nicely done.

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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by VDenter » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:52 pm

Kai is the only worthwhile dub that came out of Funimation regarding Dragon Ball, but that isn't saying much. It is still just a 7/10 effort at the end of the day, at its absolute best. However it gets worse the longer the series goes on. There are still way to many issues to go over, so many in fact that subbed Kai is still a vastly superior experience than dubbed Kai.

Most of the OG cast run circles around the Funi cast. Even if the Funi cast have improved since the 90s, but Kai needed to recast everyone if it ever wanted to have a dub that lived up to the fullest potential.

I for very brief moment had a new found respect for the dub crew when they used the correct names for ones like Makankosappo or Kienzan during the Saiyan arc. But sadly things it all gets flushed down the toilet once the Freeza arc begins and we go back to crap like Special Beam cannon and it is just..ugh.

So much of the voice voice acting is still waaaaay too over the top from most of the cast instead of sounding natural, that it just ruins so many scenes. I think Chris Ayres is easily the best English voice for Freeza and the best part about the dub by far, but even he can sound ridiculously over dramatic at points.

Kai is just a wasted opportunity on every level and that goes for the JP side of coin as well. I'm glad that many new fans got introduced to this franchise because of Kai, but it could have been so much better. I don't hate it but it is far from the ideal way to experience DB.

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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by Hulk10 » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:00 pm

I find that Kai up to the end of Cell arc is pretty good. But I prefer the older one after that. I know not a lot of people like Kai but I do.
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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by Witty User Name » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:23 am

Hulk10 wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:00 pm
I find that Kai up to the end of Cell arc is pretty good. But I prefer the older one after that. I know not a lot of people like Kai but I do.
I too like Kai, simply because IMO the manga is vastly superior to the anime in every shape, form, guise and way. Too bad the execution of Kai wasn't all that great.

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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by blacksymbiote » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:00 am

Still a funi-dub fan. "Cat loves food yeah yeah yeah yeah." DBZKai kind of put me off when I tried it. Redoing the series with mostly the same voices but less hammy dialogue makes it seem like they want me to take this fantasy show more seriously and I resent that for some reason.

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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:10 am

blacksymbiote wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:00 am
Still a funi-dub fan.
You know Funimation dubbed Kai and Z right?

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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by blacksymbiote » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:20 am

Yeah but I try to distinguish the two.

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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:29 am

blacksymbiote wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:20 am
Yeah but I try to distinguish the two.
One’s the Z dub and one’s the Kai dub.

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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by blacksymbiote » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:33 am

In calling it the Z dub, I feel like I'm saying the other dubs of DBZ don't count.

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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by Kokonoe » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:18 am

Yeah it's more or less even if the script could be as accurate as possible I feel the voice actors were trying more hard back then in the english kai. Probably cause they were younger and had more energy and things were more experimental.

The newer ENG kai is more of like, older more refined but less energy less passion with some important scenes. To each their own!

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Re: Can't get into Kai

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:37 am

blacksymbiote wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:33 am
In calling it the Z dub, I feel like I'm saying the other dubs of DBZ don't count.
Try "Funi Z" and "Funi Kai".

And remember, even though it hasn't released, there is a second English dub of Kai too, so just calling Kai "The Kai dub" is equally dismissive as calling Funi's Z dub "The Z dub".
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