Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

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MasenkoHA
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Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:57 am

I know Funimation's dub of Kai is praised for being fairly accurate but I was watching episode 57 and this bit bothered me.

Trunks: And the man who created them (the Androids) was none other than the Red Ribbon Army's residence lunatic Dr.Gero.
Goku: *gasp* Dr.Gero but how can that be? I wiped out the Red Ribbon army, I'm sure of it.
Trunks: I know, you crushed the red ribbon army years ago. However, Dr.Gero survived and carried on with his research.
Goku: So what's he after? Is it that whole, I'm going take over the world thing again?

To compare, the subtitles

Trunks: The one who created them, was a former mad scientist of the Red Ribbon Army, Dr.Gero.
Goku: Red Ribbon Army? You mean the Red Ribbon army that I wiped out?
Trunk: Correct. The Army was crushed by you long ago. However, Dr. Gero survived and continued his research.
Goku: For what reason? Was the usual "world domination" thing his goal?

The dub dialog isn't as inaccurate as it was for Z but it still suggest Goku knows who Dr.Gero is, which is of course wrong. Funimation had long since dubbed the original Dragon Ball so I don't know why it would be off base like that.

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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by Valerius Dover » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:49 am

Mostly accurate yeah, but the Cell arc specifically makes some pretty glaring errors, besides that one.

-Yamcha refers to Future Trunks by that exact name when he and Krillin arrive at Goku's house despite not knowing who he is yet. Unless Goku was talking in his sleep, there's no way he could know. The Z dub actually got this one right.

-They also repeated the same error from Z where Trunks says Bulma was the one who wrote "Hope" on the time machine. It wasn't until that reanimated flashback in Super that they got this right.

-Goku says that King Kai is back to normal after the wish to revive everyone killed by Cell. He clearly isn't, as he still has a halo over his head and is dead and not happy about it during the Buu arc and Super. He can still accompany Goku while alive. The Z dub had Yamcha specify that Cell's Earth victims were to be revived. Goku then says that King Kai could ask to get revived, but he's decided to stay with Goku. To be honest, the reasoning for King Kai wanting to stay dead never made sense to me. Why would he need to be dead to hang out with Goku?

-Kind of minor by comparison, but the truck driver that Vegeta blasted was apparently replaced by Chuck Norris in the Kai dub. :lol:
He survives in this version, joining other civilian characters like the farmer with a shotgun and the deadbeat-hating cake shop worker as the most badass normal characters in the series.

Full disclaimer; I am not shitting on the Kai dub in favor of the Z dub or anything like that. Kai is still far more accurate overall than the Z dub, no question there. Most notably the origin of Androids 17 and 18. They also fixed that error where Goku and Tien were said to have tied in the 22nd Tournament, by stating that Goku just barely lost.
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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:33 am

Funi's Kai dub isn't anywhere near what it's cracked up to be.

Ultimately, it was about a hundred thousand steps in the right direction, but "Massive improvement" doesn't mean "Good".
Kai still suffers from all Funi's usual problems:

First and most obviously, iffy translation... Less so than their previous work, but mistakes like the narration in episode 98 saying Kaio was revived with the Dragon Balls, which is a pretty notable dub-only plothole, still crept in. And as you note, the way they've written Goku's first line here implies he knows who Gero is. Possibly a holdover from their Z dub (which influenced their Kai scripts in many ways; for instance, when Kuririn tells Chichi and Gyuumao that Goku died and Gohan was taken by Picolo, Chichi feints. The subtitles have Gyuumao say something like "Chichi! Buck up!", whereas Funi's scripts both in Z and Kai have him say "Krillin, get the smelling salts!")

Then there's Funi's typical stupid additions... I touched on this just now with the "Krillin, get the smelling salts!" holdover from Z, but that's far from the extent of the changes Funi decided to make. There are certainly holdovers from the Z dub like that, which are frustrating in and of themselves, but there's also various weird additions unique to Kai; one example I like to highlight is when Popo takes Bulma to see God's ship in the Yunzabit Highlands, just before he does his weird hopping up the cliff face...
In Simmons' Kai subtitles, Bulma says "You haven't brought me to this godforsaken place in order to do something pervy with me, right?", then he begins hopping up the cliff face, and she calls to him "H-Hey!" (for the record, the only change compared to the Z subtitles is "something pervy" is instead "something indecent")
Meanwhile, Funi's Kai script has Bulma say, in her best attempt at a threatening tone, "Hey! If you've brought me all the way out here just to try something funny, you should know I've been taking Judo since I was 9 years old. Get me?", then he begins hopping up the cliff face, and she calls to him "Don't go! It was a joke!"
FWIW, the Z dialogue instead has Bulma say something to the effect of "I think you've got us lost! Look, there's no where to go, it's a dead end!" So, certainly, the original intent is preserved to a greater degree here (in that it's not 100% completely lost, as it is in the Z dub), but as is the case with a lot of Funi's changes -- particularly in Kai onwards -- they tend to keep the original meaning in there, but completely change the actual tone and meaning of a scene, adding drastic alterations. In both the Kai dub and sub, Bulma is voicing a concern that Popo only brought Bulma here to "do something pervy", but while the subtitles have Bulma come to this realisation with a great level of worry, Funi's Kai dialogue instead has her realise this and try to get ahead of it, sort of intimidate Popo into not trying anything; it's sort of a "Hey, just so you know, if you took me here to go all Roshi on me, I'm gonna kick your ass!!"... Or maybe she was just throwing around a joke to lighten the mood? So either way, the original intent of the scene is totally lost, for no reason, even if both versions technically do begin with her becoming concerned that he may have sinister motivations for taking her to the Yunzabit Highlands. One could try to justify this and claim that this is one of the cases of Funi recording a "TV-safe" line, and using it in the uncut dub ("Dude, mah truck!!" is a clear case of a "TV-safe" line, but it's still present in the uncut dub), and indeed, this scene is present in the TV-safe version as-is, but I'd argue that whether or not it was an honest mistake, and they did record an "uncut" version, this is negated by their sheer incompetence in using the "TV-safe" line in uncut. Whether or not a better, uncut-intended line was recorded, we'll never hear it, as is the case with any other toned-down lines that one could suspect as being a "TV-safe" line that aren't straight-up additions like "Dude, mah truck!!"
And this is just one example. You'll find this all over the place in Kai 1.0. Usually not more than once or twice per episode (sometimes not even that often), but they got worse as they went on. At this point, in Super, most scenes have at least one example much like this. From "Let's go visit Yamcha!", to stuff like the TFS Cell Games re-enactment. Admittedly, particularly in cases like TFS's appearance, one could easily justify much of this stuff as a fun one-off thing... But it's not a fun one-off, it's constant. It's just not Funi deciding to have some fun and insert a gag for the fans in an episode or two in the run, it's a constant deluge of shit they've loaded their scripts up with from day 1, all the while claiming that they now give "The purest DBZ experience possible", to quote Sean Schemmel in one interview where he was bashing Ocean's work to send up his own...

Last but not least, poorly-written dialogue... Even when the translation is fine -- which is mostly the case in the text you quoted -- the dialogue itself isn't particularly natural. For one, it feels like they wanted to squeeze everything given on the literal scripts into their dub script, as well as throwing in their own spin on things, so you get dialogue that's clunkily trying to fit so many ideas, and then on top of that, they tend to phrase it in clunky ways (Goku mentioning Gero is arguably, more than anything else, an example of this; just poor wording of a line that they're overstuffing). For another, the dialogue itself is lacking in distinction. Read Goku's lines you posted there in Vegeta's voice in your head. Then read it in Freeza's voice. Then in Beers's voice. This dialogue isn't Goku dialogue, it's just... Dialogue. Same goes for Trunks's lines here. For a group who'd had this property for 15 years, and was allegedly putting in their best work, and was -- by virtue of their stubborn refusal to recast anyone unless absolutely necessary -- theoretically able to cater the dialogue to each actor's performance to get the best possible results... These scripts aren't very well written. Compare this to something like the Pioneer dub, or one of the Blue Water dubs; they weren't afraid to sacrifice certain aspects of the literal things said in the original dialogue, they pay far more attention to keeping it faithful to the spirit and intent, while writing more natural, distinct dialogue. This is one major reason I want to hear Ocean's Kai dub someday; the dialogue itself will no doubt be infinitely better-written than Funi's. It always has been historically, so I have no reason not to believe it will be better this time too.
Take, for instance, this classic Piccolo moment from Z movie 1 in Pioneer's dub... And, just because I can, I'll provide both the Steve Simmons subs from the Funi DVDs, and the Rika Takahashi subs from the Pioneer DVD, and Funi's slightly-rewritten version from their in-house redub...
Simmons subs: "You may not die, all right... But even if your life goes on, if you cannot do anything, it will indeed be hell for you. I will give you a taste of the pain of hell."
Takahashi subs: "Perhaps you will not die... But even if you live, not being able to do anything will be hell. I'll give you a taste of the torment of hell!"
Pioneer dub: "When I'm finished with you, Garlic, you'll wish you were dead -- you'll be helpless! Try to imagine how it'll feel to live unable to do anything with all that power you possess... Then you'll know what hell is really like."
Funimation dub: "When I'm finished with you, Garlic, you'll wish you were dead -- you'll be completely helpless! Try to imagine how it would feel to live on forever, unable to do anything with all of your power... An eternity where there's nothing but you."
Strictly speaking, the Pioneer dub does a lot of rephrasing here, but the full intent is left intact, the line is quite well-written, and it's VERY Piccolo-feeling; I would imagine it was written with Scott McNeil's performance in mind.
As is typical of Funi's two Pioneer-based dubs (Z movies 1 and 2. Pioneer did also do an excellent dub of 3, but Funi ignored its script in favour of the one they worked on for the Saban TV version, as their base for their in-house redub of 3), the dialogue is mostly kept to what Pioneer wrote in '97/'98, but with some random, weird changes, such as the removal of any mention of hell here ("Ultimate Uncut" indeed :roll:), replacing that last line with Funi's own invention that kinda robs this little monologue of its intimidating capper line, and takes away some of the intent of the original Japanese line that was intact in Pioneer's version.

TL;DR: Funi's Kai-onwards dubs are still inaccurate, still loaded with weird, random additions, and as always, the dialogue is poorly-written. It's certainly better than their early work, but a punch in the face is better than a kick in the junk... Still better to have neither.

Just my two cents.
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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by Stridster » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:17 am

There's a scene in TFC where Chi Chi and Bulma are discussing who's husband is stronger and Chi Chi very strongly implies that Goku has never lost a single fight, even though he's lost like half a dozen fights throughout the series and she even witnessed his loss against Cell.

That's the only major one that comes to mind that hasn't been brought up yet in this thread (I still really like the dub though)

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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:44 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:33 am Funi's Kai dub isn't anywhere near what it's cracked up to be.
Yep. The way a lot of fan talk about it it's treated as a dead-on translation with the occasional punch up but it's really just a "mostly acceptable" dub that still goes off base at times. There's a few instances of the dialog still being way off. Like Gohan trying to play Shiritori with Piccolo being completely changed to him just saying he'll do Piccolo's training and he knows what he's trying to do. Obviously a direct translation wouldn't work but they could have adapted the scene better and still have Gohan trying to play a word game with Piccolo.

There's also the matter of Funi Kai using the same dialog verbatim from the 2005 Z redub when having Kami and Mr.Popo discuss the change in Piccolo. And while the general gist is correct anyways it leaves out the key point that Raditz didn't go to limbo like past victims of Piccolo would have. Which kind of creates a plot hole from the original Dragon Ball. (to say nothing of the fact they still refuse to acknowledge that Kami is God and still use the safe "Guardian of the Earth"
First and most obviously, iffy translation... Less so than their previous work, but mistakes like the narration in episode 98 saying Kaio was revived with the Dragon Balls, which is a pretty notable dub-only plothole, still crept in. And as you note, the way they've written Goku's first line here implies he knows who Gero is.
Meanwhile, Funi's Kai script has Bulma say, in her best attempt at a threatening tone, "Hey! If you've brought me all the way out here just to try something funny, you should know I've been taking Judo since I was 9 years old. Get me?", then he begins hopping up the cliff face, and she calls to him "Don't go! It was a joke!"
FWIW, the Z dialogue instead has Bulma say something to the effect of "I think you've got us lost! Look, there's no where to go, it's a dead end!" So, certainly, the original intent is preserved to a greater degree here (in that it's not 100% completely lost, as it is in the Z dub), but as is the case with a lot of Funi's changes -- particularly in Kai onwards -- they tend to keep the original meaning in there, but completely change the actual tone and meaning of a scene, adding drastic alterations. In both the Kai dub and sub, Bulma is voicing a concern that Popo only brought Bulma here to "do something pervy", but while the subtitles have Bulma come to this realisation with a great level of worry, Funi's Kai dialogue instead has her realise this and try to get ahead of it, sort of intimidate Popo into not trying anything; it's sort of a "Hey, just so you know, if you took me here to go all Roshi on me, I'm gonna kick your ass!!"... Or maybe she was just throwing around a joke to lighten the mood? So either way, the original intent of the scene is totally lost, for no reason, even if both versions technically do begin with her becoming concerned that he may have sinister motivations for taking her to the Yunzabit Highlands. One could try to justify this and claim that this is one of the cases of Funi recording a "TV-safe" line, and using it in the uncut dub ("Dude, mah truck!!" is a clear case of a "TV-safe" line, but it's still present in the uncut dub), and indeed, this scene is present in the TV-safe version as-is, but I'd argue that whether or not it was an honest mistake, and they did record an "uncut" version, this is negated by their sheer incompetence in using the "TV-safe" line in uncut. Whether or not a better, uncut-intended line was recorded, we'll never hear it, as is the case with any other toned-down lines that one could suspect as being a "TV-safe" line that aren't straight-up additions like "Dude, mah truck!!"
The judo comment seemed more like Funi trying to be funny with some punch up dialog. Maybe it was an ad-lib from Monica Rial that Chris Sabat decided to keep in? The Japanese dialog is more direct (even in the Z subtitles) where the Funi dub dialog (excluding the unnecessary judo comment) the intent is there but it's more vague to be safer for broadcast I guess?


Read Goku's lines you posted there in Vegeta's voice in your head. Then read it in Freeza's voice. Then in Beers's voice. This dialogue isn't Goku dialogue, it's just... Dialogue.
I did notice even with Schemmel's Goku improving and the character not being as butchered as he was in the Z dub they still don't really adapt his casual informal country bumpkin speak. I'm not saying Schemmel needs to do a country accent but just having Goku speak with poor grammar would be sufficient I think. They've kept the whole "Goku is kind of dumb and really likes fighting aspect" but still ignore the raised in the mountains for the first 12 years of his life aspect.

by virtue of their stubborn refusal to recast anyone unless absolutely necessary -- theoretically able to cater the dialogue to each actor's performance to get the best possible results... These scripts aren't very well written.
Agreed, with the sole exception* of Chris Ayres Freeza. They did for some reason try to keep Linda Young as Freeza then realized it wouldn't work with the new dialog and replaced her. And that's what should have happened across the board. But no we still have a Kaio that sounds like he's choking on his own spit when he talks in the Funi dub...

*You can argue that replacing Kyle Hebert with the more appropriate Doc Morgan as a narrator was another example but it's a minor one.

such as the removal of any mention of hell here ("Ultimate Uncut" indeed :roll:)
The irony of calling it the Ultimate Uncut dub while removing all instances of the word hell from the Pioneer version was not lost on me :P

Actually, it seemed weird that Funimation somewhat has a reputation of putting in to much swearing in their more recent Dragon Ball dubs when they seemed to avoid it like the plague in their pre-2010 stuff with Dragon Ball even for their edgy "uncut" stuff. I heard somewhere Gen Fukanaga didn't want any swearing and I guess he either stopped caring by Kai or stopped being involved with the production of the dub.
TL;DR: Funi's Kai-onwards dubs are still inaccurate, still loaded with weird, random additions, and as always, the dialogue is poorly-written. It's certainly better than their early work, but a punch in the face is better than a kick in the junk... Still better to have neither.

Just my two cents.
I'm a bit nicer than you. I'd say their Kai dub is a soda that's gone a bit flat. The taste isn't horrible, but it's lost a lot of flavor and you could be drinking better stuff for you anyways. Their Z dub is like having someone spit in your soda.

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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:33 pm

Generally speaking, while there are indeed numerous flaws as noted above i'll take Kai's dub over the Z dub any day because the latter had a great deal more effort put into it as far as accuracy goes. It's not to the point of how the former did with being almost entirely off the mark through face palm inducing garbage like "KRILLIN'S IN DA HOUSE!!!!!", "I eat wholesome foods" and "POP GOES THE WEASEL!!!!". Could it have been better in some respects including recasting of particular characters and scripts, yes it definitely could but overall i can at least watch with a straight face and take it seriously most of the time unlike Z where the terrible jokes and amatuerish acting made for an almost entirely different (and cringe worthy) experience.
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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:09 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:33 pm Generally speaking, while there are indeed numerous flaws as noted above i'll take Kai's dub over the Z dub any day because the latter had a great deal more effort put into it as far as accuracy goes.
Sure. Funi most definitely did a better job of Kai than Z... But as I say, better =/= good. Their Kai dub is, unfortunately, merely okay...
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:33 pm It's not to the point of how the former did with being almost entirely off the mark through face palm inducing garbage like "KRILLIN'S IN DA HOUSE!!!!!", "I eat wholesome foods" and "POP GOES THE WEASEL!!!!".
Except they did do that. I noted "Dude, mah truck!!" in my previous post, as well as the "I've been taking judo!" line, and "Krillin, get the smelling salts!!", but there's plenty of other nonsensical deviations here and there. They're not very frequent in Kai 1.0, admittedly, but Kai 2.0 is loaded with garbage like "I've totally pwn'd you in this fight", Super has "I forgot my tractor!", "Let's visit Yamcha", "I just came back from HFIL", etc.
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:33 pm Could it have been better in some respects including recasting of particular characters and scripts, yes it definitely could but overall i can at least watch with a straight face and take it seriously most of the time unlike Z where the terrible jokes and amatuerish acting made for an almost entirely different (and cringe worthy) experience.
Sure. Absolutely. Unlike their Z dub, this is actually just about serviceable.
But it burns me that people defend this dub so aggressively, and put it on a pedestal, when it's just barely okay (one other thing I forgot to mention is the attack names. If you watch the uncut dub, they use the Japanese attack names for everything... Until about episode 30 or 40 or something, at which point they suddenly switch to the dub names. What's up with that? Isn't that just needlessly confusing for new viewers?), and Funi immediately slid off the wagon for Kai 2.0, and by this point in Super, they've gone back to their old ways of throwing whatever they feel like into the script, even though their additions are admittedly not quite as cringy as they used to be, and their base translations are a lot better... It's still the exact same disrespectful attitude they've always had towards the show.
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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:00 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:09 pm ]"Dude, mah truck!!"
I had to see it too believe it. That’s like Saban levels of censorship right there. I got the impression Nicktoons was okay with death as long as the characters didn’t actually say kill and die.

Super has "I forgot my tractor!", "Let's visit Yamcha", "I just came back from HFIL", etc.
Super comes off like Funimation is aggressively pandering to the Dragon Ball Z Abridge crowd.
But it burns me that people defend this dub so aggressively, and put it on a pedestal, when it's just barely okay
It burns me when people act like its better than Japanese Kai. The Japanese cast bored, disinterested, snd aged still act circles around the Funimation cast.
(one other thing I forgot to mention is the attack names. If you watch the uncut dub, they use the Japanese attack names for everything
They still use Spirit Bomb instead of Genki Dama and Tri-Beam instead of Kikoho .

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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:23 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:00 pm
Robo4900 wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:09 pm"Dude, mah truck!!"
I had to see it too believe it. That’s like Saban levels of censorship right there. I got the impression Nicktoons was okay with death as long as the characters didn’t actually say kill and die.
Indeed.
Though, the most shocking thing isn't the fact they did that in the TV dub, the shocking thing is the incompetence that led this line to be present in the uncut dub.
MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:00 pm
Super has "I forgot my tractor!", "Let's visit Yamcha", "I just came back from HFIL", etc.
Super comes off like Funimation is aggressively pandering to the Dragon Ball Z Abridge crowd.
That's how it comes off to many, but to me, it's always just been a case of Funi returning to their old ways of "throw in whatever jokes you feel like."
MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:00 pm
But it burns me that people defend this dub so aggressively, and put it on a pedestal, when it's just barely okay
It burns me when people act like its better than Japanese Kai. The Japanese cast bored, disinterested, snd aged still act circles around the Funimation cast.
That's fair. Though I think the attitude is usually more of "If you're watching in Japanese, watch the original. If you're watching dubbed, swap Z out for Kai." The exception being the ever-present dub-only elitists who will always insist Funi's dub is superior to all other versions, especially the Japanese version and the Ocean dubs.
MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:00 pm
(one other thing I forgot to mention is the attack names. If you watch the uncut dub, they use the Japanese attack names for everything
They still use Spirit Bomb instead of Genki Dama and Tri-Beam instead of Kikoho .
True. I don't know what the logic was behind some being Japanese and some not. Either way, it's the ultimate half-measure; they only used the Japanese names for some of the attacks, and gave up entirely after 20-30 episodes. It's crazy.
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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by Planetnamek » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:46 pm

Kai didn't do really it for me because it felt like an awkward half-measure that tried to be more faithful to the original version and at the same time still tried to throw a bone or two to fans of the original Funi dub which resulted in a stilted and awkward mess that was ultimately not very satisfying to watch. It essentially got caught between trying to please both purists and dub fans and ultimately didn't do a great job of satisfying either camp. I'd personally rather a dub either go whole hog on being different from the original or go all out in trying to be faithful, trying to do both at the same time usually does not work out for the best. That's why I'll stick with the original in-house dub, it may be less accurate but it certainly feels less awkward to watch IMO, plus Kai skips over both too much and not enough, it skips over some great moments and yet still includes plenty of not-so-great filler and I feel like i'm missing out on something by watching Kai over the original dub. Also I can take or leave the new voice-acting honestly, its mostly serviceable but not having grown up with Kai I don't really feel the same attachment to the new VAs that I do towards the old ones.

Also the attempts at redoing the animation in some scenes really stuck out like a sore thumb and ended up just making them look worse then before(like the new CGI effects in the Star Wars special editions, only even more awkward looking).
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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by Metalwario64 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:04 am

Am I the only one who feels Schemmel's King Kai has gotten way, way worse on both a vocal front, as well as a scripting one?

He's become super raspy and hard to understand, and his dialog has become ridiculously punched up and is way too wordy and even more jokey than the Japanese scripts. I recall one scene I detested was in Kai when he contacted Goku on the way to Namek, and his entire delivery and dialog were just super punched up compared to both Z and the Japanese dialog. I can't recall it off the top of my head, but I really didn't like the tone it had.

The voice was always bad, but even in the season 3 Z dub days, he at least made an attempt to sound "sagely" when it was needed, but in Kai, his serious scenes just all felt really weird to me.
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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:29 am

Metalwario64 wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:04 am Am I the only one who feels Schemmel's King Kai has gotten way, way worse on both a vocal front, as well as a scripting one?

He's become super raspy and hard to understand, and his dialog has become ridiculously punched up and is way too wordy and even more jokey than the Japanese scripts. I recall one scene I detested was in Kai when he contacted Goku on the way to Namek, and his entire delivery and dialog were just super punched up compared to both Z and the Japanese dialog. I can't recall it off the top of my head, but I really didn't like the tone it had.

The voice was always bad, but even in the season 3 Z dub days, he at least made an attempt to sound "sagely" when it was needed, but in Kai, his serious scenes just all felt really weird to me.
I think it's 'cause back in "season 3", he was still trying to do an impression of Don Brown's rather good take. Whereas, as time's gone on, he's settled into doing his own version, which basically means he's dropped all the seriousness, darkness, and sageliness from the performance in favour of more goofiness.
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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:12 pm

Planetnamek wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:46 pm . That's why I'll stick with the original in-house dub, it may be less accurate but it certainly feels less awkward to watch IMO
I dunno about less awkward

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnriaELk_pw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdGa-2BSFiI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDldPVgtPeU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zjyTM7rbJs

Honestly it's amazing Cartoon Network even agreed to air season 3 . This and the Sailor Moon S dub holy hell.

plus Kai skips over both too much and not enough, it skips over some great moments and yet still includes plenty of not-so-great filler and I feel like i'm missing out on something by watching Kai over the original dub
This, I agree with (well not necessarily the very last part) Funimation Kai dub is a much much product than their Z dub but Z is overall a better product than Kai not because of Funimation but what Toei gave them to work with. This is why I would be down for a complete redub of Dragon Ball and Z preferably by a different company since Funimation proves they're not capable of going full on away from decisions they've made back in 1996.
. Also I can take or leave the new voice-acting honestly, its mostly serviceable but not having grown up with Kai I don't really feel the same attachment to the new VAs that I do towards the old ones.
Most of the major players are the same though? I swear people act like the Kai dub did a complete recast (which they probably should have)
Also the attempts at redoing the animation in some scenes really stuck out like a sore thumb and ended up just making them look worse then before(like the new CGI effects in the Star Wars special editions, only even more awkward looking).
So many of the redrawn scenes looks like a second grader's Dragon Ball Z fanart randomly got inserted into the actual show. It's really distracting and appalling.
Robo4900 wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:29 am
Metalwario64 wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:04 am Am I the only one who feels Schemmel's King Kai has gotten way, way worse on both a vocal front, as well as a scripting one?

He's become super raspy and hard to understand, and his dialog has become ridiculously punched up and is way too wordy and even more jokey than the Japanese scripts. I recall one scene I detested was in Kai when he contacted Goku on the way to Namek, and his entire delivery and dialog were just super punched up compared to both Z and the Japanese dialog. I can't recall it off the top of my head, but I really didn't like the tone it had.

The voice was always bad, but even in the season 3 Z dub days, he at least made an attempt to sound "sagely" when it was needed, but in Kai, his serious scenes just all felt really weird to me.
I think it's 'cause back in "season 3", he was still trying to do an impression of Don Brown's rather good take. Whereas, as time's gone on, he's settled into doing his own version, which basically means he's dropped all the seriousness, darkness, and sageliness from the performance in favour of more goofiness.
Schemmel's King King is and even still remains a bad take on Don Brown's King Kai (which I don't love but at least its not obnoxious) at least in Z it came off more like a bad actor doing a bad imitation of a character voice. Now its a caricature of a caricature and it's amazing that Funimation is so tied to nostalgia they won't recast Kaio of all characters or at least tell Schemmel to do it differently

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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:18 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:12 pm
Planetnamek wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:46 pm . That's why I'll stick with the original in-house dub, it may be less accurate but it certainly feels less awkward to watch IMO
I dunno about less awkward

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnriaELk_pw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdGa-2BSFiI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDldPVgtPeU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zjyTM7rbJs

Honestly it's amazing Cartoon Network even agreed to air season 3 . This and the Sailor Moon S dub holy hell.

plus Kai skips over both too much and not enough, it skips over some great moments and yet still includes plenty of not-so-great filler and I feel like i'm missing out on something by watching Kai over the original dub
This, I agree with (well not necessarily the very last part) Funimation Kai dub is a much much product than their Z dub but Z is overall a better product than Kai not because of Funimation but what Toei gave them to work with. This is why I would be down for a complete redub of Dragon Ball and Z preferably by a different company since Funimation proves they're not capable of going full on away from decisions they've made back in 1996.
. Also I can take or leave the new voice-acting honestly, its mostly serviceable but not having grown up with Kai I don't really feel the same attachment to the new VAs that I do towards the old ones.
Most of the major players are the same though? I swear people act like the Kai dub did a complete recast (which they probably should have)
Also the attempts at redoing the animation in some scenes really stuck out like a sore thumb and ended up just making them look worse then before(like the new CGI effects in the Star Wars special editions, only even more awkward looking).
So many of the redrawn scenes looks like a second grader's Dragon Ball Z fanart randomly got inserted into the actual show. It's really distracting and appalling.
Robo4900 wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:29 am
Metalwario64 wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:04 am Am I the only one who feels Schemmel's King Kai has gotten way, way worse on both a vocal front, as well as a scripting one?

He's become super raspy and hard to understand, and his dialog has become ridiculously punched up and is way too wordy and even more jokey than the Japanese scripts. I recall one scene I detested was in Kai when he contacted Goku on the way to Namek, and his entire delivery and dialog were just super punched up compared to both Z and the Japanese dialog. I can't recall it off the top of my head, but I really didn't like the tone it had.

The voice was always bad, but even in the season 3 Z dub days, he at least made an attempt to sound "sagely" when it was needed, but in Kai, his serious scenes just all felt really weird to me.
I think it's 'cause back in "season 3", he was still trying to do an impression of Don Brown's rather good take. Whereas, as time's gone on, he's settled into doing his own version, which basically means he's dropped all the seriousness, darkness, and sageliness from the performance in favour of more goofiness.
Schemmel's King King is and even still remains a bad take on Don Brown's King Kai (which I don't love but at least its not obnoxious) at least in Z it came off more like a bad actor doing a bad imitation of a character voice. Now its a caricature of a caricature and it's amazing that Funimation is so tied to nostalgia they won't recast Kaio of all characters or at least tell Schemmel to do it differently
His performance as Kaio/King Kai is an awkward sounding voice and always has been from the start. They really should have recast him starting with Kai among the other more notable recastings because as much as Schemmel has greatly improved as Goku since first taking over the role back in 1999 his Kaio has just regressed even further to the point where it's more or less a one note, over the top performance that doesn't even come close to Yanami's take. Given how great some of them were like replacing Linda Young with Chris Ayres for Freeza, which i think was hands down one of the best recastings given how he's pretty much brought the character far more closer in tone to Ryuusei Nakao's take.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by Planetnamek » Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:28 pm

I'm aware that Kai mostly has the same cast, but for me that made things even more awkward as hearing some of the same voices and a few new ones only added to the feeling of Kai being a half-measure. I think if you're going to replace some of the voice-actors for the sake of "accuracy" you might as well go all out and replace all of them so that it at least feels more like a completely different product rather then just feeling like an abridged version of a book on tape. Again this feels like a case of Funimation trying to appeal to two different camps- Getting new voices for characters like Freeza to try and appeal more to purists, while keeping around others like Schemmel in hopes of still attracting fans of the original dub.

Those clips you posted may certainly be bizarre, but for me that kinds of adds to the charm, I liken that sort of thing to an old-school kung-fu movie with not-so-great dubbing(And given DB's Wuxia influences that might've been what they were going for with some of the weird choices the dub made) and i'm not surprised CN still aired season 3 as all of their shows were pretty weird back then.
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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:23 pm

Planetnamek wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:28 pm And given DB's Wuxia influences that might've been what they were going for with some of the weird choices the dub made)
Lmao no it wasn’t. They did their hardest to strip the show of its wuxia influence with the Faulconer techno score and Dale Kelly monster truck announcer. The not-so-great dubbing because it was godawful scripts trying to sound cool/funny being dubbed by horrendous “actors” with cheap audio equipment not because they were intentionally trying to sound like a bad dub of a martial artist movie.

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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by Planetnamek » Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:38 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:23 pm
Planetnamek wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:28 pm And given DB's Wuxia influences that might've been what they were going for with some of the weird choices the dub made)
Lmao no it wasn’t. They did their hardest to strip the show of its wuxia influence with the Faulconer techno score and Dale Kelly monster truck announcer. The not-so-great dubbing because it was godawful scripts trying to sound cool/funny being dubbed by horrendous “actors” with cheap audio equipment not because they were intentionally trying to sound like a bad dub of a martial artist movie.
Eh Maybe maybe not, guess we'll never know for sure.
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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:46 pm

Planetnamek wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:38 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:23 pm
Planetnamek wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:28 pm And given DB's Wuxia influences that might've been what they were going for with some of the weird choices the dub made)
Lmao no it wasn’t. They did their hardest to strip the show of its wuxia influence with the Faulconer techno score and Dale Kelly monster truck announcer. The not-so-great dubbing because it was godawful scripts trying to sound cool/funny being dubbed by horrendous “actors” with cheap audio equipment not because they were intentionally trying to sound like a bad dub of a martial artist movie.
Eh Maybe maybe not, guess we'll never know for sure.
We do know for sure that season 3 was a product of incompetence.

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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:10 am

I'll be honest about it -- I felt like a lot of the lines in Kai were closely related to the Z dub. Yes, things were changed, but all in all, the lines oftentimes felt familiar. Made me wonder how accurate the dub really was and if the Z dub was really as inaccurate as believed. One day -- hopefully very soon -- I'll go line for line. I have the means to, just not the time.

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Re: Funi's Kai dub and accuracy

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:02 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:10 am I'll be honest about it -- I felt like a lot of the lines in Kai were closely related to the Z dub. Yes, things were changed, but all in all, the lines oftentimes felt familiar. Made me wonder how accurate the dub really was and if the Z dub was really as inaccurate as believed. One day -- hopefully very soon -- I'll go line for line. I have the means to, just not the time.

There are parts of the Z dub that were technically accurate but maybe missing some nuance or had the dialog punched up to be “funny” but actually just made stupid. A good chunk would be way off base though.

Example episode 68 first scene

Japanese sub
Butta- Where did he go?
Jeice- Behind you, Butta!
Butta-What?!
Son Goku: Yo!
Butta-H-How did you get behind me!? Behind me, who prides himself on being the fastest in the universe!
Son Goku- Then maybe, you’re second fastest in the universe, aint you?
Jeice- H-how can this be? Not only did he repel my crusher ball, he managed to slip behind Butta! It’s as if I’m having a bad dream
Butta-Who are you?
Son Goku- I am a Saiyan who was raised on earth...I guess
Butta- Don’t be ridiculous! How can a Saiyan have that kind of speed?
Son Goku- How should I know? It must be from my having trained so hard

Equivalent dub scene
Burter- Darn it. Where did he go?
Jeice: Burter! Behind!
Goku- Hey...
Burter- H-how the heck did you do that? How did you get behind me? Nobody’s that fast.
Goku- Well apparently I am
Jeice- Man, I’ve never seen anyone get to Burter like this before, and he deflected my fire crusher ball like it was a beach ball. This isn’t good. I don’t like it one bit
Burter- Who are you?
Goku- My name is Goku! And I am a Saiyan from earth!
Burter-Liar! I’ve defeated hundreds of Saiyans and none of them were faster than me.
Goku- It must be my diet, I eat a lot of really wholesome foods


As you can see the Funimation dialog is more or less correct but its worded differently and there’s some dumb jokes added in. Funimation also makes the claim that Burter defeated hundreds of Saiyan when he makes no such claim in the Japanese version. Also Goku’s country bumpkin speak is lost in translation and the I guess when he says he’s a Saiyan from earth being removed loses the nuance that he’s not fully ready to embrace his heritage.

It’s why I never bought the “Funimation was given bad incoherent translations from Toei” claim. They clearly had legible English translations to work from.

That’s just one example of course there’s plenty of times where the English dub is waaaay off base. I just wanted to use the first bit of Funi’s in-house dub.


The transcribing of the dialog doesn’t cover how god awful the English dub acting is or the generic Faulconer score droning on .

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