Transformation Guide - Nearly Complete, Kinda?

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Transformation Guide - Nearly Complete, Kinda?

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:52 pm

http://www.daizex.com/guides/transformations/

Really want people to go through and scrutinize the HELL out of it (Julian included ^^;;). It's honestly getting ready for a premier. I'll keep "Miscellaneous" and "Movie" transformations / character out of it for now, giving some fun stuff to update it with later down the line.

The following sections are live, however (even if they don't have pictures on the main page):

-- Saiyan Transformations
-- Freeza Transformations
-- Cell Transformations
-- Buu Transformations
-- Fusions
-- Special Budokai Fusions / Absorptions

Here's a list of things I know need fixing / correcting, and would appreciate any help on:

-- Need to add Majin Cell / Freeza to Budokai section. Images taken, already. *** DONE

-- Golden Oozaru descriptions needed for Goku, Bebi Vegeta, and Vegeta in the yellow summary box (if anyone wants to write them for me, be my guest)

-- Is "Kibitoshin" / "Kaiobit" / whatever ever given an actual name anywhere, be it in the manga / anime / daizenshuu? I want some actual names, here :P. Also, if anyone can give me a screen-cap, that'd be great (I don't have that specific disc).

-- Speaking of those folks, I need to add Old Kaioshin, since he's technically fused with an old witch! I can easily get a picture of him, but does anyone else want to refresh me with the details on this? *** DONE

-- Basic run-downs of the different types of fusions (Namekian, Dance, Potara) and how they occur at the top of the respective page. *** DONE

-- Double-check numbers. If Rachel or Julian didn't give them to me, specifically, they probably need to be checked.

-- Any weird formattings? I looked at it all in Mozilla and IE on my Win98 PC, but there's guaranteed to be weird things elsewhere...

-- Scrutinize the text for grammatical and factual problems.

-- Anything else you come across!

Thank you, everyone!!
Last edited by VegettoEX on Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Zackarotto » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:23 pm

I used to hear "Kaiobito" all the time, and I thought that was official. Well, "Kibitoshin" was heard pretty often.

Sorry I can't help you very much right now. Just don't take too long with Movie transformations after you finish, because I'd really like to see some more on Coola.

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Post by B-kun » Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:56 pm

Yay! I get to be useful! *booty dance*

Lesse.. Kibitoshin is the name given in Budoukai 2, though he's called just Kibito in GT, but..

The fusion between Old Kaioushin happened when he was reading a manga and a witch, admiring his earrings, took one and put it on. You can guess what happened next.

As for nitpicking... You put some wrong information in the wrong areas. Like you listed SSJ3 Gotenks info in the Golden Oozaru shtuff. There're other instances like that.

^_^

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Post by Jerseymilk » Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:23 pm

I really like the Budokai Fusions and Absorptions section, a great read! And I think you should get a special prize EX for explaining the whole confusing business of USSJ1 and USSJ2! 8) You actually made it make sense!

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Re: Transformation Guide - Nearly Complete, Kinda?

Post by SaiyaJedi » Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:28 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Here's a list of things I know need fixing / correcting, and would appreciate any help on:

<snip>

-- Is "Kibitoshin" / "Kaiobit" / whatever ever given an actual name anywhere, be it in the manga / anime / daizenshuu? I want some actual names, here :P. Also, if anyone can give me a screen-cap, that'd be great (I don't have that specific disc).
Curtis Hoffmann called him "Kaiou-bit;" I'm not sure if he actually had a name in the Daizenshuu, but the dub called him "Kibitoshin" and Budokai 2 (both the English and Japanese version) followed suit.
-- Speaking of those folks, I need to add Old Kaioshin, since he's technically fused with an old witch! I can easily get a picture of him, but does anyone else want to refresh me with the details on this?
Actually, I think this night be an anime-only thing... but I'm not really sure. Anybody wanna check?
-- Scrutinize the text for grammatical and factual problems.
Will do. :D
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Post by VegettoEX » Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:37 pm

Jerseymilk wrote:And I think you should get a special prize EX for explaining the whole confusing business of USSJ1 and USSJ2! 8) You actually made it make sense!
Thank Julian for most of it. We had a session of translating pages and making sense of the crap that Goku and Trunks spew, combined with what (little) we can actually observe taking place. It's pretty complex, but yeah... I think we're probably the first site to really tackle this idea of "USSJ" and try to logically make sense of it, providing evidence from the actual show.

Yeah, we're cool. We know.
SaiyaJedi wrote:Curtis Hoffmann called him "Kaiou-bit;" I'm not sure if he actually had a name in the Daizenshuu, but the dub called him "Kibitoshin" and Budokai 2 (both the English and Japanese version) followed suit.
Do we know if Curtis took this from the daizenshuu, though? He tends to make up his own names for characters, and such ^^;; (IE - Kushami) Personally, I guess I'd tend to go with "Kibitoshin"...
SaiyaJedi wrote:Actually, I think this night be an anime-only thing... but I'm not really sure. Anybody wanna check?
I don't have a problem including this if it's anime-only; isn't skinny Gotenks anime-only, as well, as-is Gogeta? (who, in fact, takes it up a notch, being DBZ movie- and GT- only :P).

Also, what about including "Gotan" and "Denderotto" ? I'm fairly sure Goku pictures "Gotan" in his head even in the manga. What about "Denderotto," and wasn't someone supposed to scan that from a daizenshuu for me... ? Also, what about the Piccolo / Kuririn "fusion"... Wasn't someone supposed to scan that, as well... ? ^^;;
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Post by Jerseymilk » Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:14 am

I definitely agree EX that Denderotto should be included, since Gotan and Gokule are in there. It only makes sense. I'm trying to remember who said thet had that image of Denderotto. I think it might have been Dayspring. Oh, and great job too Julian! 8)

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Post by PsyLiam » Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:52 am

Cell - second form:

"In this stage, Cell's power has increased exponentially, but he is still no match for a regular Super Saiyan. His rear end is handed to him by Super Saiyan Vegeta"

I don't remember, but wasn't second form Cell at least as strong as Piccolo? Our friendly neighbourhood Namek stood up to first form Cell, but I seem to remember him not faring as well against his second form. And Piccolo was at least as strong as a Super Saiyan at that point.

Vegeta wasn't really a "normal Super Saiyan" at this point either. He had spent a year training in the Room of Time and Spirit. I can't actually remember if he did the ascended transformation before or after Cell's final transformation, but he certainly seemed stronger than before he went in. After all, regular Super Saiyans weren't even a match for #17 and #18, and Semi-perfect Cell had to be stronger than them.

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Post by Jerseymilk » Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:04 am

You're right about that Psy, he had done his training already and was exceptionally stronger for it. Remember the comment #18 makes about the change because she had fought him just shortly before and he was pitiful against her in comparison. And Piccolo never faced Cell in his second form by the way. He wasn't able to compete against a powered-up Cell after he had absorbed many, many more people. But even so, Piccolo was considered as strong as a Super Saiyajin after his fusion with Kami, so I agree with your disagreement about the quoted passage from the guide. :)

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Post by TripleRach » Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:01 am

I'll have to agree with PsyLiam and Jerseymilk about Second-form Cell. First-form Cell totally trashed Piccolo the second time around, and he was a lot stronger than a regular SSJ (Piccolo = #17 > #18 > SSJ Vegeta). Vegeta bulked up to USSJ just before fighting Second-form Cell.

The witch fusion does appear in the manga. So does skinny Gotenks. :)

"Gotan" did appear in the manga in a Gokuu thought bubble, and he looked just like this, but "Denderotto" and Piccolo/Kuririn didn't.

Do you need any of those missing chapter numbers on the Fusions page?

Other stuff:

In the Freeza guide, the yellow box for Fourth-form Freeza has a description for one of Buu's stages.

About Vegetto's split within Buu: I recently noticed that Gokuu does make a comment about it probably being the air/atmosphere within Buu. If that's all noteworthy, anyway.

I also noticed more than a few typoes (which really isn't much, considering all the text there is), but I forgot to note them here as I read...oops. I hope someone else can catch them. ^^;;

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Post by VegettoEX » Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:19 pm

I'd really like to ask everyone to continue looking through the pages and looking for mistakes / exclusions. I've made a few changes here and there thanks to everyone here (plus Clay), so thanks for that! Here's a list of things I know I still need...
  • Golden Oozaru descriptions needed for Goku and Bebi Vegeta in the yellow summary box (if anyone wants to write them for me, be my guest)
  • "Denderotto," "Piririn," and "Gotan" images from the manga / anime / daizenshuu. I don't have those specific DVDs / book, so I'm relying upon you folks.
  • Double-check numbers. If Rachel or Julian didn't give them to me, specifically, they probably need to be checked.
  • Any weird formattings? I looked at it all in Mozilla and IE on my Win98 PC, but there's guaranteed to be weird things elsewhere...
  • Scrutinize the text for grammatical and factual problems.
  • Anything else you come across!
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Post by Jerseymilk » Mon Mar 15, 2004 12:06 am

In the chart showing the cause of the SSJ1 transformations for each character, it's written that the cause of Trunks' transformation is Gohan being killed by #17. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it different in the manga flashback? Doesn't he have to train for a few more years until he finally ascends?

I did notice one little nitpicky thing EX. In the section titled Super Saiyan (SSJ1), in the third paragraph. You have the word "however" written twice in the sentence. I don't know, I guess I'm just being "anal" but I find it reads as awkward, and a shame because the rest of the section is written really well and flows nicely. 8)

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Post by VegettoEX » Mon Mar 15, 2004 12:19 am

Jerseymilk wrote:In the chart showing the cause of the SSJ1 transformations for each character, it's written that the cause of Trunks' transformation is Gohan being killed by #17. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it different in the manga flashback? Doesn't he have to train for a few more years until he finally ascends?
I haven't read the "TRUNKS: THE STORY" manga chapter, so I have no idea. You're the one that has to tell me ^^.
Jerseymilk wrote:I did notice one little nitpicky thing EX. In the section titled Super Saiyan (SSJ1), in the third paragraph. You have the word "however" written twice in the sentence. I don't know, I guess I'm just being "anal" but I find it reads as awkward, and a shame because the rest of the section is written really well and flows nicely. 8)
No, no, that's exactly what I want you to tell me :P. When you write things yourself, you always miss miss things that you write badly (yes, that was written on purpose ^^ ). Thanks~
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Post by Jerseymilk » Mon Mar 15, 2004 12:53 am

Okay then, will do! 8) As long as you don't think it's anal, it's cool then. Anyway, I'm not certain about the Trunks thing. I haven't read that manga chapter either, I just remember reading or hearing it more then once on occasion. I think Rachel, would probably know about it though for certain, since she has a lot of the Japanese manga.

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Post by Zackarotto » Mon Mar 15, 2004 7:55 pm

Jerseymilk wrote:Okay then, will do! 8) As long as you don't think it's anal, it's cool then. Anyway, I'm not certain about the Trunks thing. I haven't read that manga chapter either, I just remember reading or hearing it more then once on occasion. I think Rachel, would probably know about it though for certain, since she has a lot of the Japanese manga.
Keithito and I agree, better watch out for PsyLiam on that one...

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Post by Jerseymilk » Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:38 pm

Zackarotto wrote:
Jerseymilk wrote:Okay then, will do! 8) As long as you don't think it's anal, it's cool then. Anyway, I'm not certain about the Trunks thing. I haven't read that manga chapter either, I just remember reading or hearing it more then once on occasion. I think Rachel, would probably know about it though for certain, since she has a lot of the Japanese manga.
Keithito and I agree, better watch out for PsyLiam on that one...
Well Liam doesn't scare me anyway! Much. :roll: :P

EX: I've read through the Freeza, and Cell sections and I have some more of my "nitpicky" typos for you.

In the section of Freeza:Second Form, first paragraph, you have written, "Freeza's second form is an almost complete opposite of his (form) form.-instead of "first".

In the description of Cell:First Form, second paragraph, you have written, "Rather than fully absorbing people though, he seems suck the life....." "to" is left out

In the description of Second Form Cell, first paragraph, "an" is left out right before "actual mouth".

Then for the little boxes at the bottom of the tranformation descriptions for "First Appears", In the Perfect Cell one, you have written, "After having absorbed Jinzoningen #17 and #18, Cell (has reaches) his "perfect" form."

Other than those little mistakes, I really like the descriptions, especially the inclusion of "Super Kanzentai Cell". Good thinking to include that, a lot of people would have forgotten, that part. 8)

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Post by PsyLiam » Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:55 pm

These are extremely nitpicky, but...

Perfect Cell:

"Cell is a humanoid in every way, now, complete with fully-formed nose and mouth."

I might be wrong here, but the use of "humanoid" here seems to imply that he is also humanoid in substance...ie, he's not completely organic. I have a vague idea that his initial form is mechanical, and his final form is fully organic, but I'm not sure. If his perfect form does still have "artificial" parts, then maybe "Cell's outward appearence is now humanoid", or something like that would work better.

"Cell's power, in this form, is greater than every Super Saiyan's."

Again, this is picky, but it's less powerful than Gohan's. Granted, that's a Super Saiyan 2, but the phrase "Super Saiyan" is used to refer to both "Super Saiyan 1", and all forms of Super Saiyan. Gohan's transformations after that point were still just Super Saiyan transformations. At least, up until the point that Goku gave the stages their numbered names.

"Gohan is forced to turn Super Saiyan 2 to battle Cell, ultimately defeating him."

This makes it sound like it was a concious decision on Gohan's part. Which it sorta was, but the description makes it sound more conscious than it actually was. Like Gohan was thinking "I'm going to have to become a Super Saiyan 2 to defeat him", rather than "The bastard has killed lots of things and trodden on that guys head and I'm really really angry and raaaaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!".

Would it be worth mentioning that the Budokai games call Cells "SUPER KANZENTAI" form by the term "power-weighted"?

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Post by Jerseymilk » Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:33 am

I just read over your Majin Buu section EX. A few more typos.

Under the section on Super Buu, first paragraph,(I'm gonna nitpick again here :oops: ), you wrote, "He's extremely impatient(even more so than Fat Buu was), and will not hesitate to not only let you know verbally,...." I think you should write it as "won't hesitate", because it sounds "off" because of the word "not" coming up so soon again with "not only".

The only other typo I found was for the description of the anime-only flashback of Buu attacking the five Kaioshins. When you listed them, you forgot to put the "n" at the end of "Western". 8)

Now for some "nitpicks" you're going to really hate me for. :wink: In the section on Super Buu, in the third paragraph, it's written "While SSJ3 Gotenks is clearly stronger than this "Super" Buu, Buu's intelligence rears it's ugly head, and Gotenks becomes absorbed by Buu!" This is just my opinion but, I disagree with saying "Buu's intelligence". I found that Super Buu before absorbing the Z senshi was as dumb as a post. If possible, I think he was even dumber than Fat Buu! Before he even came up with that plan to absorb Gotenks, he hid for a period of time. That probably shows he had to think a for a while to come up with a way to save his backside. He clearly didn't have the skill to think on his feet at least. Perhaps it would be better to word it as "unfortunately, Buu manages to come up with a plan"?

The other thing I wanted to point out was in the section talking about Buu's absorption of Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo, it's stated that after the fusion wears off and Buu takes on more of Piccolo's characteristics, he doesn't gain any power but his intellect goes way up. I found that as soon as he absorbed all three of them and even though Gotenks dominated his appearance, at that time, Piccolo's intelligence already showed in his use of speech and the way he toyed with Gohan mentally.

I just had a question too, really, I'll shut-up soon! :P Mr. Satan's dog is referred to as "Beh" in your guide, but in the subtitled version of the anime it's written as "Ban". I have also seen it written as "Bee" and "Biiru", I guess as a play on "beer". But I know that "Ban" is Japanese for "bowl". So anyway my question is why are there so many different names for him?

Okay, I'm actually done. You can shoot me now EX. 8)

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Post by VegettoEX » Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:35 am

Not at my own computer, so replying with list of updated things to do for later. I'll strike them out as I complete them.
  • Freeza - Second Form: first paragraph, "Freeza's second form is an almost complete opposite of his (form) form. -instead of "first".
  • Cell - First Form: second paragraph, "Rather than fully absorbing people though, he seems suck the life..." "to" is left out
  • Cell - Second Form: second paragraph, first paragraph, "an" is left out right before "actual mouth"
  • Cell - Perfect: yellow summary, "After having absorbed Jinzoningen #17 and #18, Cell (has reaches) his "perfect" form."
  • Cell - Perfect: refine "humanoid" description
  • Cell - Perfect: refine "Cell's power, in this form, is greater than every Super Saiyan's" statement.
  • Cell - Perfect: refine "Gohan is forced to turn Super Saiyan 2 to battle Cell, ultimately defeating him" statement.
  • Cell - Super Kanzentai: mention Budokai: "power-weighted"
  • Buu - Super: first paragraph, "He's extremely impatient(even more so than Fat Buu was), and will not hesitate to not only let you know verbally,...."; should write it as "won't hesitate", because it sounds "off" because of the word "not" coming up so soon again with "not only"
  • Buu - Anime Flashback: forgot to put the "n" at the end of "Western"
  • Buu - Super Buu: In the section on Super Buu, in the third paragraph, it's written "While SSJ3 Gotenks is clearly stronger than this "Super" Buu, Buu's intelligence rears it's ugly head, and Gotenks becomes absorbed by Buu!" This is just my opinion but, I disagree with saying "Buu's intelligence." I found that Super Buu before absorbing the Z senshi was as dumb as a post. If possible, I think he was even dumber than Fat Buu! Before he even came up with that plan to absorb Gotenks, he hid for a period of time. That probably shows he had to think a for a while to come up with a way to save his backside. He clearly didn't have the skill to think on his feet at least. Perhaps it would be better to word it as "unfortunately, Buu manages to come up with a plan" ?
  • Buu - Absorptions: Buu's absorption of Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo; it's stated that after the fusion wears off and Buu takes on more of Piccolo's characteristics, he doesn't gain any power but his intellect goes way up; as soon as he absorbed all three of them and even though Gotenks dominated his appearance, at that time, Piccolo's intelligence already showed in his use of speech and the way he toyed with Gohan mentally
I've also made a few corrections / additions that Clay pointed out, so there's still work being done ^^;;. Keep it up~~.

And look how dedicated I am. Everyone oughta love me.
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Post by Dayspring » Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:18 pm

GGGGAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!
MAJIN BUU (+SOUTHERN KAIÔSHIN; anime-only flashback)
Why does everybody say it's anime flashback only? In both the anime AND manga we see him in this form while transforming to Kid Boo. He even stops for a second to pant, then suddenly experiences pain and THEN continues transforming, so it's not like you say it was one fluent transformation. Kaioshin even says that it was the form he took after assimilating the South Kaioshin.

As for the whole name of post-potara Kaioshin, the daizenshuu has a pic of him right after they fuse as part of the East Kaioshin's bio (with a subtitle of "master Kaioshin" under it). My guess is because they were both part of the Kaioshin race, and one of the two just called himself "Kaioshin".

In the fusion section under Gogeta, note that the daizenshuu calls fat Gogeta "Veku" for some reason. Just thought you'd like to know in case you want to change it.

Quick note involving Fat Boo: after he creates skinny, he lost most of his strength to him. From then on he was called "Mr Boo." Maybe you'd like to make this an extension of Fat Boo like 100% Final Form was an extension of Final Form Freeza.

Contrary to what Julian said Rou Kaioshin pre-fusion WAS in the manga, albeit(sp?) only for one panel when he's in total freak out mode (so he only looks like badly drawn East Kaioshin).

In the manga (Trunks: The Story) Trunks is training in SSJ before the destruction of Peppertown. I think the anime was different just to add drama.

Note: I can't open the Saiyan section for some reason. I get a "file not found" msg.
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