DBZ Movies: Where They Fit In

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Post by mister yummy » Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:27 pm

why is Trunks's hair such an issue of contention? Look at his mom's hair! It drastically changes in a few hours sometimes.

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Post by Mr.Piccolo » Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:31 pm

mister yummy wrote:why is Trunks's hair such an issue of contention? Look at his mom's hair! It drastically changes in a few hours sometimes.
It has to do with him using RoSaT. Type slower.. :?. Trunks having long hair could mean Cell has absorbed at least one cyborg or it could also mean the Cell Games were nearby or already happened.
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Post by Deus ex Machina » Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:40 pm

It could also mean Trunks decided to just wait around for a single year while in the past, entered the Tournament, fought Bojack...

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Post by Duo » Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:28 am

There are only two instances in which Trunks' hair is long, both times completely due to lack of opportunity for him to cut it. We can assume that since he chooses to cut it whenever he's not spending a year training in the Room of Spirit and Time, that he would have no reason to grow it out again after his last series' appearance.

Since Trunks' hair doesn't sporatically change constantly, we have to rule the Bulma effect out.

I also find it terribly unlikely he would spend an entire year in the past, especially since Goten isn't born in the movie and present Trunks hasn't grown at all.
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Post by Deus ex Machina » Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:16 am

Ah, you got me there. If Trunks had spent an entire year in the past Goten should already be born...But for that matter, even if it's only been a number of months since Cell was destroyed, shouldn't Chi Chi be noticibly pregnant?

Putting that aside, I still say the length of Trunks' hair isn't significant enough to rule movie 9 out of continuity. You can just chalk it up to inconsistency, and fan service.

The length of Gohan's hair doesn't necessarily rule out the plot continuity of movie 5 either; though it's true that Gohan has shaggy hair prior and after his training, there is a long three year gap between those two time periods. Long enough for Chi-Chi to give Gohan another bowl cut and for it to grow long again before the start of the Android saga.

Though I'll say right now I don't believe that movie 5 does actually fit into the story, I'm just saying it could...if you choose to believe that Goku would allow himself to be beaten near death before deciding to transform into a Super Saiyan.

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Post by Duo » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:21 am

Deus ex Machina wrote:Ah, you got me there. If Trunks had spent an entire year in the past Goten should already be born...But for that matter, even if it's only been a number of months since Cell was destroyed, shouldn't Chi Chi be noticibly pregnant?

Putting that aside, I still say the length of Trunks' hair isn't significant enough to rule movie 9 out of continuity. You can just chalk it up to inconsistency, and fan service.

The length of Gohan's hair doesn't necessarily rule out the plot continuity of movie 5 either; though it's true that Gohan has shaggy hair prior and after his training, there is a long three year gap between those two time periods. Long enough for Chi-Chi to give Gohan another bowl cut and for it to grow long again before the start of the Android saga.

Though I'll say right now I don't believe that movie 5 does actually fit into the story, I'm just saying it could...if you choose to believe that Goku would allow himself to be beaten near death before deciding to transform into a Super Saiyan.
Well, now I'm going to dive even deeper into my pickiness and point out the fact that Gohan was visibly taller when Freeza came to Earth than he was in Movie 5. Also, he randomly has a tail again for no real reason. His design in Movie 5 is a carbon copy of the Gohan design pre- Ginyu fight but plus a tail.

I think I take character designs a bit more seriously than most in regards to the movies, heh heh. It's one of those things I paid tedious amounts of attention to in the Manga - like how Trunks' facial structure is visibly more square (like Vegeta's) in his final appearance when he fights Future Cell because another three years has passed and thus he is well into adult-hood.
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Post by Deus ex Machina » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:42 am

Duo wrote:Well, now I'm going to dive even deeper into my pickiness and point out the fact that Gohan was visibly taller when Freeza came to Earth than he was in Movie 5. Also, he randomly has a tail again for no real reason. His design in Movie 5 is a carbon copy of the Gohan design pre- Ginyu fight but plus a tail.
I didn't notice any significant change in Gohan's height at all between his arrival on Namek to when he entered the room of Spirit and Time, but I'll conceed that I've never purposefully compared and checked, so I may be wrong about that.

As for his tail...well, er...Maybe it grew back on Namek, and he's been keeping it tucked inside his pants the whole time like he did in movie 3? I know, I'm grasping at straws now. But prove me wrong! :P
I think I take character designs a bit more seriously than most in regards to the movies, heh heh. It's one of those things I paid tedious amounts of attention to in the Manga - like how Trunks' facial structure is visibly more square (like Vegeta's) in his final appearance when he fights Future Cell because another three years has passed and thus he is well into adult-hood.
You may be right about that, I don't have most of the manga, and the art work was terrible in that particular episode of the series. But the manga timeline isn't necessarily the same as the anime's either.

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Post by Duo » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:08 am

Yeah, I think the Anime says "a few months later" in reference to when Trunks fights Cell, as opposed to the Manga saying "3 years later". That's either a major continuity error that's been overlooked, or Viz/Daimao (one or the other) got it wrong (Viz is far more likely, in this case).
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Post by Onikage725 » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:19 pm

I know this is old, but since it's a sticky I have a few things of my own to add. I agree with most of what has been established, aside from the handful of "could they?" films.

Movie 1- The thing about Gohan I don't think is that huge (unless you watch the dub where Goku explicitly states Gohan is his son). In the original, unless I'm mistaken (and it has been a little while), Goku only uses Gohan's name. For all Kuririn knows, this is just some random kid. The only real issue would be the lack of a line like "Hey, isn't that the same kid as before" at the Kame house. I'd think that'd be more of a minor inconsistency than a full-blown "can't have happened" plot hole.
As for Piccolo and Goku teaming up, it isn't the same dynamic event as against Raditz. It's more like they just sort of attack the same guy. The minute they think Garlic Jr.'s dead, they're at each others throats. Again, I blame the dub here. Many of us have seen "Dead Zone" so many times, and in the dub there is more comraderie in the dialogue between them (at least it always seemed to me). As for Duo's point about the Nyoi-bo... that's a good one. But then, would it be theoretically impossible for him to claim it if needed and then put it back after? I mean, Kami's palace is self-propelled, so I think that's more of a convenience for the mortals.

Skip ahead to movie 5. The only glaring thing to me is that noone sensed Coola. I think we could chalk that up to dramatic license however. I think it is fairly obvious Coola can supress his ki. Either that or Toei really dropped the ball on ki sensing (always a possibility). But before we wonder why Yamucha and Ten didn't sense Coola from space, why don't we ask why Goku, Gohan, and Piccolo couldn't sense him from 50 yards away? If we're going to bypass that, then we have to assume some form of supression was at work.

Goku not going SSJ has been covered already, but I agree with the point about him not having the time. When Coola first shows up, Goku takes a bad hit that puts him out, not unlike the injury Gohan receives while protecting Vegeta from Cell. After recovering, he goes straight into the fight. Goku isn't about excessive force, unlike Vegeta. He has that fight at first. He's all over Coola. Why bother transforming if he didn't need to? Then Coola whips out another form and lays Goku out. The moment Goku gets a few minutes alone with his thoughts, he lets that switch flip and makes the change.

Actually, the only real thing about movie 5 is Gohan's design, but that's fairly minor. A possible height issue and a hair cut. I'll get into hair next though-

Movie 9- How long does it take you all to grow your hair? Mine grows out in like a month, and is long by 2. I don't know why people keep suggesting a year hold over for Trunks. A month or two should be sufficient. As for why he would choose to grow it out? Well that's up for speculation but it shouldn't really be cause to call "plot hole." As I recall, he wanted his hair cut before the Cell Games to keep it out of the way. Maybe his letting it grow out was to signify that this was a (supposedly) peaceful time in his life. As for the lack of Goten- Who's to say this wasn't anywhere from 2-4 months after the Cell Games? Does the movie state a timeframe? Women don't really show until somewhere in the 2nd trimester. Even then, it is possible to not show that much and be able to somewhat hide it with clothing. Chi Chi is a slender woman and Goten's a slender guy, so the bulge may not have been that evident to begin with. I'm talking from experience here- I worked with a girl once whom barely seemed pregnant until 7 months in, and even then never got that pronounced.

I'm gonna double back to 8 for a sec. Now, the funny thing about movie 8 (to me) is that it would work better with the manga than the anime. That's mainly because the anime went to great lengths to highlight events during the waiting period. Movie 8 had to take place over a number of days. First they had to fly to New Vegeta. They spend two days on New Vegeta if I'm not mistaken. Then they fly back in a busted up space ship. So movie 8 was a 3-4 day problem for them. That's a bit much to cram in as an aside to the Cell Games.

Movie 13. I really don't see a problem with it at all. It happens during a dead spot in the series. As Duo pointed out, Goku didn't win by displaying more force than Gotenks or Gohan- he won by succesfully exploiting the weakness. As for Trunks' sword, I don't see the big deal. People have said many times "No Goku, they couldn't have beaten Hirudegaan in the future timeline." Who's to say Mirai Trunks or Gohan didn't just pull a mercy kill on Tapion after he contained the monster. It almost happens in the film, and the Trunks (and Gohan) in that timeline were used to a far harsher reality than in the main storyline. I'd think they'd be better equipped to make a harsh choice for the greater good than a kid who's life is mostly great and who's parents and friends are still alive and as strong as they were.
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Post by Kaboom » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:50 pm

Very good points, most of which I agree with. One thing though.

The major problem with movie 8 isn't really the time alloted. The problem is the state of the world around them. During the couple of days between Cell making his announcement and the start of the Cell Games, the world's population was in panic and anxious and pretty much completely shut down. Nobody during that period gave a frak about scholarships or picnics amongst the sakura blossoms or whatever. They're all possibly gonna die in a few days (unless, of course, the illustrious Mr. Satan can defeat Cell, mirite?); who cares about anything else?
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Post by Onikage725 » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:39 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:Very good points, most of which I agree with. One thing though.

The major problem with movie 8 isn't really the time alloted. The problem is the state of the world around them. During the couple of days between Cell making his announcement and the start of the Cell Games, the world's population was in panic and anxious and pretty much completely shut down. Nobody during that period gave a frak about scholarships or picnics amongst the sakura blossoms or whatever. They're all possibly gonna die in a few days (unless, of course, the illustrious Mr. Satan can defeat Cell, mirite?); who cares about anything else?
Hm- the perfect counter to my "would make more sense in the manga" comment, yet at the same time makes a decent case for the anime. According to filler (lol) life still went on more or less. I suppose it isn't entirely impossible to think that some people would have faith in their heroes and not totally flip out. Daimao, the Saiya-jin... this isn't the first time someone with a god complex has threatened to wipe them all out only to have a certain spiky-haired martial artist put him in his place.

Unless of course you're watching the dub, where noone seemed to know who Goku was.
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Post by desirecampbell » Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:31 am

In DBZ Movie 1, Kuririn refers to Gohan as "Goku's child".

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Post by Onikage725 » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:55 pm

desirecampbell wrote:In DBZ Movie 1, Kuririn refers to Gohan as "Goku's child".
When's that?

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Post by desirecampbell » Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:24 am

Onikage725 wrote:When's that?
I posted this a while ago in another thread.
-Kuririn, Bulma, and Roshi are all present when Goku says "it's not Gohan they're after, it's the Dragon Balls"

-After Kuririn gets peed on, both he and Goku step back and look at Gohan, Goku then tells Kuririn to "take care of Gohan", and Kuririn immediately goes after the child.

-Near the end of the film, after the portal to the 'dead zone' has been opened, Kuririn says "Where's Goku's child!? Don't tell me he went through that opening!"

So, Kuririn (at least) is clear that Gohan is Goku's kid.
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Post by Onikage725 » Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:09 am

Ah... such is life. Awsome about the movie set though.
And thanks for the insight about movie 1. I guess the only way to plug in movie 1 is to assume Kuririn's a little scatterbrained.
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Post by mysteriousdbzgt » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:12 pm

I would have said that movie 8 was set during the time, of the ten day period which was coming up to the Cell games. It sounds reasonable, due to the fact that Gohan is able to transform into a super saiyan and Trunks has long hair during that day.
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Post by Kaboom » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:42 pm

mysteriousdbzgt wrote:I would have said that movie 8 was set during the time, of the ten day period which was coming up to the Cell games. It sounds reasonable, due to the fact that Gohan is able to transform into a super saiyan and Trunks has long hair during that day.
SSj Kaboom wrote:The major problem with movie 8 isn't really the time alloted. The problem is the state of the world around them. During the couple of days between Cell making his announcement and the start of the Cell Games, the world's population was in panic and anxious and pretty much completely shut down. Nobody during that period gave a frak about scholarships or picnics amongst the sakura blossoms or whatever. They're all possibly gonna die in a few days (unless, of course, the illustrious Mr. Satan can defeat Cell, mirite?); who cares about anything else?
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Post by Onikage725 » Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:17 pm

Hmhm, well I'd still think "life goes on." Everyone was on edge during the Saiya-jin Saga (even sort of had live coverage until Nappa got uppity). Seemed like all was doomed. But I bet the kiddies still went to school in most cities, businesses sold their wares, theaters ran films, scheduled sporting events probably went on schedule, planes may have flown (except maybe in cities near-ish the battle). So possibly one city out there still held the festival, and a couple of schools continued with enrollment. It isn't entirely farfetched.
But if you compare the movie to the anime during the only time the movie could possibly fit... they filled up a lot of that wait. I'm not sure what if any were in the manga, but I know most of this section was filler. The situation with Lime, Goku's visit with Karin, Piccolo going into the RoSaT (and don't they have Vegeta and Trunks take a 2nd day?), Gohan's birthday, the army blitz on Cell, Dende becomes Kami and makes new Dragon Balls, that puzzle episode with Tao Pai Pai... That's gotta be a good 6 or 7 days right there. Throw another 3-4 days for movie 8 smack in as a solid chunk in the middle and the schedule is just a little too tight.
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Post by Teclo » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:50 am

Since this is a sticky I guess the normal rules against necro-posting don't apply..?

Well anyway, I just watched movie 5 and I'm just starting movie 6. Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but in the first post of this thread it says that movie 6 takes place before Trunks first arrives. Well one thing that I noticed right at the start of the movie is that it says "Dende is now the new Kami over Earth" which means it must be after whenever that happens. I'm currently rewatching DBZ and as of episode 134, Trunks has recently appeared for the second time but Kami-sama and Piccolo still haven't fused and we haven't heard anything of Dende since the end of the Namek Saga.

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Post by Onikage725 » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:42 am

Teclo wrote:Since this is a sticky I guess the normal rules against necro-posting don't apply..?

Well anyway, I just watched movie 5 and I'm just starting movie 6. Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but in the first post of this thread it says that movie 6 takes place before Trunks first arrives. Well one thing that I noticed right at the start of the movie is that it says "Dende is now the new Kami over Earth" which means it must be after whenever that happens. I'm currently rewatching DBZ and as of episode 134, Trunks has recently appeared for the second time but Kami-sama and Piccolo still haven't fused and we haven't heard anything of Dende since the end of the Namek Saga.
Neither 5 or 6 could take place before Trunks arrives, really. Movie 5's backstory directly involves Goku's defeat of Freeza on Namek. That's Coola's entire motivation. And Goku doesn't get back home until after Trunks appears. One could assume that it is a "what-if" scenario in which Goku returned straight home, but the flaw there is that movie 6 is in-continuity with 5, even if it can't possibly happen in the series. And in 6, Goku knows Shunkan Idou. Which means he would have chilled on Yardrat. Maybe that's how he got so close to Coola instantly after going SSJ (though that was more likely just super speed).

The little inconsistencies, like Gohan's design or Coola's lack of knowledge that his father was missing are due to the fact that the film was made before Toriyama actually did that stuff. Some assumptions were made by the filmmakers.

And logic would follow that if movie 5 can't be before Trunks' arrival (or at best, a what-if running around the same time), then 6 can't either. As you stated, Dende is Kami. This means Piccolo is fused (probably why he did so well against those robots). Vegeta is SSJ, and as comfortable with the change as Goku was when he came to Namek. 6 and 7 seem to follow a "what if 17 and 18 were destroyed and Cell never appeared" storyline. Honestly, lift Cell from the timeline, and 5-8 could all fit in fairly well together (unless I'm missing something).
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