Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Grand Marshal 1
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:41 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:26 am
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:14 am
Well guys, what about Ultimate Gohan after the ToP? Would he force Black to use SSJ or even Rosé? Because against Base Black, even if the latter evolves uncontrollably, Gohan should unleash his potential faster.
He would force him to use Rosé but Black would still win. He had grown so strong that his power had surpassed even his own divine understanding as a fighting genius. When he created the scythe and that endless army of clones, he was basically unstoppable. A shame that he overreacted and fused too early with Future Zamasu.
To be honest, although I like Merged Zamasu and Zamasu himself, Goku Black should have at least defused with him or something. His character made him unique and satisfying to watch.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:04 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:14 am
Well guys, what about Ultimate Gohan after the ToP?
I think Gohan is about as strong as Future Trunks currently. He could fight SSRosé for a while.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:22 pm

Interesting how before fusing Black considered Rage Trunks to be nothing more than fodder, so much so that he thought Future Zamasu alone would be able to deal with him. I wonder if Black was simply too prideful, or if Trunks had truly grown so weak compared to Black, despite his new transformation.
Hail Fused Zamasu, the One True Supreme God of the cosmos.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:24 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:22 pm
Interesting how before fusing Black considered Rage Trunks to be nothing more than fodder, so much so that he thought Future Zamasu alone would be able to deal with him. I wonder if Black was simply too prideful, or if Trunks had truly grown so weak compared to Black, despite his new transformation.
Technically, FZ should be able to deal with anyone due to his immortality. Without the cheatcodes, Trunks should've killed Zamasu the first time he showed his face, after Black Rose pierced Vegeta.
I'd go for prideful on this one.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:39 pm

Zamasu alone wasn't too impressive without his hax. No stronger than a Super Saiyan 2.

He was completely useless actually, you could count how many times he hit either Goku, Vegeta or Trunks on one hand.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:46 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:22 pm
Interesting how before fusing Black considered Rage Trunks to be nothing more than fodder, so much so that he thought Future Zamasu alone would be able to deal with him. I wonder if Black was simply too prideful, or if Trunks had truly grown so weak compared to Black, despite his new transformation.
Well, you can't really beat an immortal being.

Sooner or later Zamasu was going to tire Trunks out and then kill him.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:53 pm

The more interesting concept is, what would have happen should the Mafuba actually worked on Zamasu. That is a good question. Black would be all alone. The even more interesting thing about this is, would they bring Zamasu in front of Zeno and the Grand Priest? Would we ever get 2 Zenos in the first place? Hakai again?

One thing is for sure, Zamasu and Black, despite their power would fail.
Back for more Trunks yet AGAAAAIIIIN?!?!?!?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:21 pm

Black could just use his Time Ring to flee to another timeline and from there plot his revenge. Or maybe he could go through that rift that he opened with his scythe, it was never clarified if it was some kind of time rift or just a physical manifestation of the divine anger within him. Although I´m not so certain that Black would lose if Zamasu were sealed successfully. He seemed to be handling the situation very well despite being alone. His endless army of clones was effectively overwhelming both Goku and Vegeta.

As for Zamasu, I don´t think they would bring him to Zeno. Too risky. The Gods usually try to avoid any interaction with Zeno because he is a wild card. And seeing how poorly they dealt with Zamasu, it would be best if they did not bring that mess to Zeno´s attention.
Hail Fused Zamasu, the One True Supreme God of the cosmos.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:16 pm

I would expect Bulma running away to the past with Zamasu's rice cooker so to keep Black from freeing him
With Zamasu unable to run interference and fuse, Goku, Vegeta and Trunks would just end up killing Black: it's unlikely they would leave him time or breathing space to run away. Black himself isn't going to believe he can be defeated even like that: too much of a God Complex united with his Saiyan body's Battle Boner.

In the end, Sealed Zamasu would end up managed by the Gods somehow. You know, hiding him away to keep Grand Priest from learning about the whole mess. Probably given to Gowasu as sort of punishment\atonement for having chosen\trained Zamasu in first place.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:44 pm

Bullza wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:39 pm
Zamasu alone wasn't too impressive without his hax. No stronger than a Super Saiyan 2.

He was completely useless actually, you could count how many times he hit either Goku, Vegeta or Trunks on one hand.
Future Zamasu in the anime was undeniably SSB level. He was trading & blocking attacks from SSB Goku/Vegeta and SSJ Rage.
numerous times.

Image
Image


Its only in the manga where he's just SSJ2 level.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:47 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:22 pm
Interesting how before fusing Black considered Rage Trunks to be nothing more than fodder, so much so that he thought Future Zamasu alone would be able to deal with him. I wonder if Black was simply too prideful, or if Trunks had truly grown so weak compared to Black, despite his new transformation.
Its just a pride thing, remember this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQuFaxX9Anc
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:49 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:24 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:22 pm
Interesting how before fusing Black considered Rage Trunks to be nothing more than fodder, so much so that he thought Future Zamasu alone would be able to deal with him. I wonder if Black was simply too prideful, or if Trunks had truly grown so weak compared to Black, despite his new transformation.
Technically, FZ should be able to deal with anyone due to his immortality. Without the cheatcodes, Trunks should've killed Zamasu the first time he showed his face, after Black Rose pierced Vegeta.
I'd go for prideful on this one.
Any stronger character could just erase his soul with a Hakai-like ability. Immortals aren't all that in Dragonball.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:49 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:46 pm

Well, you can't really beat an immortal being.
Tell that to Zeno.....
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:54 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:53 pm
The more interesting concept is, what would have happen should the Mafuba actually worked on Zamasu. That is a good question. Black would be all alone. The even more interesting thing about this is, would they bring Zamasu in front of Zeno and the Grand Priest? Would we ever get 2 Zenos in the first place? Hakai again?

One thing is for sure, Zamasu and Black, despite their power would fail.
Black was the strongest there so Zamasu isn't staying sealed for long.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:27 am

ruler9871 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:44 pm
Future Zamasu in the anime was undeniably SSB level. He was trading & blocking attacks from SSB Goku/Vegeta and SSJ Rage.
numerous times.
A lot of characters have traded blows with people weaker than themselves. Krillin traded Kamehameha's with him. Both Android 17 and Golden Frieza have traded blows with him and the former called the latter a monster.

Zamasu was kicked around by Super Saiyan Trunks and he would have died had he not been immortal.

Rage Trunks kicked Zamasu once and he was pretty much out of it while he went back to actually trading blows with Goku Black.

The same thing happened in the second fight. Trunks blasts Zamasu once and sends him away while he was Goku Black. Zamasu only then fights him when Trunks has exhausted himself and he reverts back to Super Saiyan and even then he can't finish him off.

He's a weakling in both the anime and the manga.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:38 am

There are people who still think future Zamas is blue level? Don't let TOEI's bad/inconsistent writing fool you.
Last edited by Miracles on Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:08 am

Immortality =/= Super Strength

Just because someone is immortal doesn't mean they can't get overwhelmed or flat out rag-dolled in combat against an opponent of equal or superior power. Hell, that happened to Zamasu against Goku in EP 61.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:23 am

Bullza wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:27 am
ruler9871 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:44 pm
Future Zamasu in the anime was undeniably SSB level. He was trading & blocking attacks from SSB Goku/Vegeta and SSJ Rage.
numerous times.
A lot of characters have traded blows with people weaker than themselves. Krillin traded Kamehameha's with him. Both Android 17 and Golden Frieza have traded blows with him and the former called the latter a monster.

Zamasu was kicked around by Super Saiyan Trunks and he would have died had he not been immortal.

Rage Trunks kicked Zamasu once and he was pretty much out of it while he went back to actually trading blows with Goku Black.

The same thing happened in the second fight. Trunks blasts Zamasu once and sends him away while he was Goku Black. Zamasu only then fights him when Trunks has exhausted himself and he reverts back to Super Saiyan and even then he can't finish him off.

He's a weakling in both the anime and the manga.
Super Saiyan Trunks kick Rose in that same episode. And that's was before Trunks blocked and parried Black's blade.

People keep using Krillin while completely ignoring the context of the scene. Everyone outright said Krillin stood no chance once Goku went Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Goku on the other hand had no reason to hold back against Zamasu. His strongest ally was stabbed through the chest and was near death and Black was stronger than him. Nothing suggested that Goku sandbagged to Zamasu, especially given the odds.

Black was sure that Zamasu by himself could kill Trunks in 64, and it wasn't an empty threat since Goku and Vegeta both wanted to go help Trunks. If Trunks was drastically stronger, they shouldn't care.

In the anime, nothing shows Future Zamasu was a weakling, just weaker than the Saiyans and wasn't even by much.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:26 am

Miracles wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:38 am
There are people who still think future Zamas is blue level? Don't let TOEI's bad/inconsistent writing fool you.

Yes, Future Zamasu in the anime is Blue level. People who keep using how he got beat up by Super Saiyan Trunks always ignores that Trunks did this Black: https://youtu.be/vYzvTXMo02k?t=82
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:23 am

People who say that Future Zamasu is not SSB level because Trunks beat him ignore the fact that Future Zamasu is a crazy masochist who wants to get hit so that he can revel in his immortality. Future Zamasu even overpowered Blue Goku at one point in episode 57.
Hail Fused Zamasu, the One True Supreme God of the cosmos.

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