And yet at the end of Super they flat out state they have no limits and as early as the 3rd episode Goku was benching vastly more than he was while flying in the Buu Saga. Levitating wouldn't make that much difference. Especially when you consider that levitation/flight isn't that different from telekinesis. And we've seen the kind of mass that can be moved with that.Dragon Wukong wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:39 pmSo basically, as others have said in this thread, Goku's muscles reached their maximum some time ago, and while transformations can seemingly push that further, as shown with Super Saiyan, most of the "planet destroying" power comes exclusively from ki. Goku isn't lifting using ki or anything (besides himself with flight.) Hence the difficulty.theherodjl wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:33 pmHere's what Herms said on the SEG and Goku struggling with it.
It’s worth pointing out that it basically says the reason Goku’s weight training in Heaven was so effective was that he used Bukujutsu to float in midair as he used the weights, which made it much harder. Goku’s never shown using Bukujutsu during any of his gravity training on Kaio’s or in the spaceship (at least not in the manga, that I can remember). It also says his image training/meditation was a means to raise his maximum ki, as muscle training has a limit. Toriyama mentioned there being limits to how much training your muscles could do and needing ki to overcome that limit in the book's interview.
"Filthy monkey, meet General Mountain."
We've also seen, in the anime at least, Vegeta training at 500g's. With his official weight a 123lbs, that means Vegeta's body would weigh over 30tons. Or if we stick to the Manga 400g's, around 25tons. In which case Vegeta, leading up into the Android Arc, was already close to flying and moving around with the same degree of weight that Goku was in the Buu Saga while in Other World. So the explanation doesn't really work. Again though, it's more like Toriyama just forgot things. As he often does.
There is also the fact that in the Buu Saga, Goku was holding up a large block of kachin. Which is the densest metal in the 7th Universe. Which would mean it has a higher density than osmium.
That block is about as tall as Goku Let's say 6ft squared. Making the blocks volume about 216 cubic feet. If it was made of osmium, it would weigh over 136tons. As katchin is the densest metal in the universe, I would argue that block would weight at least several times that number. Meaning that, again, we're seeing how low the 40ton thing really is.
I am aware he said hardest, however density can affect this. Not that it always does, but the denser an object, the more tightly packed its molecules, the harder the surface. Despite diamond being one of the hardest substances in the world, diamond's tensile strength is rather weak. Whereas the katchin is not just hard, but it's dense and it broke the Z-sword with how hard Goku threw it. Which also shows how strong Goku is as he even held it aloft one-handed.