"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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nato25
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by nato25 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:21 am

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:49 am
DiscountDabi wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:15 pm
My only problem with this chapter is Beerus still being above Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku. He seemed so confident in his own ability, and its getting hard to believe that if Full Power Beerus is still above MUI that he could have gotten any amount of enjoyment out of his fight in Battle of Gods.
I've seen some suggest that it could be totally unrelated to Beerus' power.

"I'm in big trouble if the other Gods of Destruction see me do this, so let's make it quick."

Now I'm not sure if the "see me do this" is referring to Beerus doing something out of the ordinary or simply getting rid of a threat. I don't think a GoD destroying a threat would be considered a big deal.
If I'm not mistaken, hasn't Whis pointed to Beerus kind of knowing Ultra Instinct but having trouble with it?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:05 am

nato25 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:21 am
Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:49 am
DiscountDabi wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:15 pm
My only problem with this chapter is Beerus still being above Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku. He seemed so confident in his own ability, and its getting hard to believe that if Full Power Beerus is still above MUI that he could have gotten any amount of enjoyment out of his fight in Battle of Gods.
I've seen some suggest that it could be totally unrelated to Beerus' power.

"I'm in big trouble if the other Gods of Destruction see me do this, so let's make it quick."

Now I'm not sure if the "see me do this" is referring to Beerus doing something out of the ordinary or simply getting rid of a threat. I don't think a GoD destroying a threat would be considered a big deal.
If I'm not mistaken, hasn't Whis pointed to Beerus kind of knowing Ultra Instinct but having trouble with it?
Yeah. Beerus also said Goku was able to use Ultra Instinct before he could at the ToP.

Makes you wonder if he's been working on it after seeing Goku's display against Jiren.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:42 am

Nobody bothers that buu is apart "again" ... just to give participation to a child who should be almost a baby and who has not done anything at all arc... just to help and be decisive giving some energy What is he still supposed to have ... and for some absurd reason is it enough to give goku enough energy?

yes of course .. brilliant writing without a doubt ....

on the positive side everything was pretty good goku giant aura I loved it ... although it lasted so little

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:50 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:42 am
Nobody bothers that buu is apart "again" ... just to give participation to a child who should be almost a baby and who has not done anything at all arc... just to help and be decisive giving some energy What is he still supposed to have ... and for some absurd reason is it enough to give goku enough energy?

yes of course .. brilliant writing without a doubt ....

on the positive side everything was pretty good goku giant aura I loved it ... although it lasted so little
You realize this is the same child Goku is incredibly excited about at the end of Dragon Ball right? A character whose strength he would still be excited about after having ascended to various godly tiers and mastering Ultra Instinct. Well now there's a very good reason why that would still be the case.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:21 am

So how comes only U7 had a Kaioshin this powerful (Dai Kaioshin at 100% power)
It's weird how other universes just have Shin-tier Kaioshins.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ChronoTwigger » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:33 am

Xeogran wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:21 am
So how comes only U7 had a Kaioshin this powerful (Dai Kaioshin at 100% power)
It's weird how other universes just have Shin-tier Kaioshins.
The ending reason I gave to myself is Kaioshin is not a "race of gods" but a "race with godly responsibilities", that's mean they evolve and develop differently based on circumstances like any other race of living beings do.
The "divine entities" are not kaioshin, but angels.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:36 am

Xeogran wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:21 am
So how comes only U7 had a Kaioshin this powerful (Dai Kaioshin at 100% power)
It's weird how other universes just have Shin-tier Kaioshins.
It could be that Dai Kaioshin is a natural prodigy like Zamasu. Goku predicted that Zamasu could also reach GoD level if he kept training rigorously.

Just as Frieza eclipses every other member of his species in potential, so do Zamasu and Dai Kaioshin with the Kais.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Psajdak » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:05 am

Xeogran wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:21 am
So how comes only U7 had a Kaioshin this powerful (Dai Kaioshin at 100% power)
It's weird how other universes just have Shin-tier Kaioshins.
Who would have expected years ago that some random guy who sealed Ro Kaioshin in Z Sword will eventually end up one of the most important characters in the current era?

We are never told everything, and things that we don't know could very well be very relevant one day.

Similar to how eventually it will most likely be revealed that there is someone ranked even above Zeno, it wouldn't be weird if we found out that other universes also have their Dai Kaioshin.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:36 am

Xeogran wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:21 am
So how comes only U7 had a Kaioshin this powerful (Dai Kaioshin at 100% power)
It's weird how other universes just have Shin-tier Kaioshins.
To be fair, we only know how strong Zamasu/Gowasu were as far as other universe-kaioshins go, though Zamasu was suggested to be among the more powerful ones.

It is quite suggestive of how powerful the Grand Supreme Kai was, his strength eclipsing every other Kaioshin seemingly. It's effectively the equivalent how a few fighters on Earth eclipse the general population in strength.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:16 am

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:36 am
Xeogran wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:21 am
So how comes only U7 had a Kaioshin this powerful (Dai Kaioshin at 100% power)
It's weird how other universes just have Shin-tier Kaioshins.
To be fair, we only know how strong Zamasu/Gowasu were as far as other universe-kaioshins go, though Zamasu was suggested to be among the more powerful ones.

It is quite suggestive of how powerful the Grand Supreme Kai was, his strength eclipsing every other Kaioshin seemingly. It's effectively the equivalent how a few fighters on Earth eclipse the general population in strength.
It's also worth noting that a great deal of narrative effort has been expended on pointing out that becoming strong and fighting isn't what a Kaioshin is supposed to do. Universe 7's Dai Kaioshin may be a naturally-occurring outlier until he uses most of his power in containing Moro, but his power is sort of meaningless to his office and function, which I'd guess is why there aren't more Shin-jin like that.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BWri » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:03 am

So are more people on the Beerus is the benchmark train? I haven't read the chapter responses as of yet. This chapter basically confirms it for me. I've seen more and more people believing it these last few months and this is finally some vindication. I can see some wiggle room in there to still not believe it, but this is a huge feather in the cap for us believers (geez, I'm making it sound like a religion now :lol:)

Review:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mister_Popo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:22 pm

BWri wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:03 am
So are more people on the Beerus is the benchmark train? I haven't read the chapter responses as of yet. This chapter basically confirms it for me. I've seen more and more people believing it these last few months and this is finally some vindication. I can see some wiggle room in there to still not believe it, but this is a huge feather in the cap for us believers (geez, I'm making it sound like a religion now :lol:)

Review:


There is still a difference between mastering a certain ability, such as God-ki or MUI, and being stronger than someone else.
Jiren, Broly and by extension Moro didn't have any of these features but still manage to challenge MUI or push Gogeta into Blue.
I don't dare doing any statements anymore about how "strong" Beerus really is, untill it's confirmed.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:41 pm

So I suppose South Kaioshin only became the strongest Kaioshin after Dai gave up most of his Divine Power to seal away Moro's magic.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kepiaschkz » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:58 pm

Do we know what the chapter #68 title is yet ? It could give us an hint at what to expect next.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BWri » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:43 pm

Mister_Popo wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:22 pm
BWri wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:03 am
So are more people on the Beerus is the benchmark train? I haven't read the chapter responses as of yet. This chapter basically confirms it for me. I've seen more and more people believing it these last few months and this is finally some vindication. I can see some wiggle room in there to still not believe it, but this is a huge feather in the cap for us believers (geez, I'm making it sound like a religion now :lol:)

Review:

There is still a difference between mastering a certain ability, such as God-ki or MUI, and being stronger than someone else.
Jiren, Broly and by extension Moro didn't have any of these features but still manage to challenge MUI or push Gogeta into Blue.
That is the question though, one of strength rather than ability. And in DB, strength is even often tied to ability (which I find irritating). God-ki doesn't augment strength or abilities any more than normal ki so I'm not sure how that factors into a character's overall level of power. Neither Broly, Jiren, or Moro are handicapped by not having God Ki. Other than allowing access to UI, god ki seems to have very limited purpose. Very poorly thought out concept narratively (unless there's more to it).
Mister_Popo wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:22 pm
I don't dare doing any statements anymore about how "strong" Beerus really is, untill it's confirmed.
Fair enough. This about does it for me. I'm convinced. The way his statement is worded in Chapter 66, there's enough wiggle room to cop out of it later if they wanted to and I wouldn't be disappointed. But from my perspective, the evidence is overwhelming that he is still top-dog amongst the non-angels.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:50 pm

It's odd how Beerus is still portrayed as a game changing asset despite the inroads Goku has made in ascending not to the hierarchy of the Hakaishin but angels. Has he been surreptitiously training all this time and we weren't aware of it? Has he always been in the lower segment of angel tier? It's evident that Toyotaro still wants us to perceive Beerus as a gleaming benchmark for whom Goku should aspire for.

Anyone else here happy that the non-Vegeta Z-Warriors at least got to appear and make some kind of contributory effort? This has to be the greatest amount of participation we've seen from Chaozu since... ever, really. Piccolo served a vital role in voicing the strategy for Vegeta allocating power to Goku. I only wish this level of involvement was more consistent and long term with a planning sheet for the humans.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:10 pm

Lionel wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:50 pm
Anyone else here happy that the non-Vegeta Z-Warriors at least got to appear and make some kind of contributory effort?
Yes, as it somewhat made up for their lackluster performance against Moro's men.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:49 pm

Wow, they really dropped the ball by not making the shape of Goku's giant avatar form a giant ape instead.

I have a feeling that if the anime ever returns, this arc will be skipped entirely and we'll finally reach EoZ. Vegeta's new abilities will probably be non-canon in the anime too.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Gt91 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:54 pm

Kepiaschkz wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:58 pm
Do we know what the chapter #68 title is yet ? It could give us an hint at what to expect next.
Not yet, we have to wait until the 13th of december (for sketches).

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:59 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:10 pm
Lionel wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:50 pm
Anyone else here happy that the non-Vegeta Z-Warriors at least got to appear and make some kind of contributory effort?
Yes, as it somewhat made up for their lackluster performance against Moro's men.
The characters that lent their energy to Vegeta were also the same ones who fought him and Nappa in the Saiyan arc. Kind of a nice symbolic touch

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