Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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GodVegetto91
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Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:48 am

As they both requier different states of mind to achieve afterall!

If one character has access to both forms, than said character has to make a choice..

1 option... OR.. The other option!

If Beerus wants to use Omen for instance.. It means he would need to focus his mind on nothing at all (to the best of HIS ability), which, in HIS case, leads to Omen.. This means that his destruction powers need to take a BACKSEAT for the time being... Until he gets his mind back on full destruction mode again!

It’s one at a time. They can’t exist simultaneously.. They are opposite states of mind afterall. Two extreme ends!
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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:46 am

What if a character has multiple personalities?
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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:03 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:46 am
What if a character has multiple personalities?
These can exist only at separate times😆
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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:22 am

I wonder how a future fusion between Goku and Vegeta would operate under those condition. Could they use Ultra Instinct or God of Destruction technique? Or neither? Maybe going as far as SSBE, since it doesn’t require a specific state of mind to be used, as far as we know.

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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:02 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:22 am
I wonder how a future fusion between Goku and Vegeta would operate under those condition. Could they use Ultra Instinct or God of Destruction technique? Or neither? Maybe going as far as SSBE, since it doesn’t require a specific state of mind to be used, as far as we know.
I’ve thought about this aswell.. About wether he should combine the two states together or use them separately.. This was BEFORE I decided to actually think about it and came to realize that the two states CANNOT be combined. So Vegito or Gogeta would HAVE to make a choice!
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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:38 pm

While their principles do sound contradictory, I don't know about these states not being able to be combined, after all, Whis is training Beerus trying him to attain UI. I wouldn't discard it even if they look like water and oil.
Perhaps it's the new future goal for the characters that have mastered one of them, and the mastery of both could result in a non-angel character being able to give an angel a run for their money.

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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:51 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:38 pm
While their principles do sound contradictory, I don't know about these states not being able to be combined, after all, Whis is training Beerus trying him to attain UI. I wouldn't discard it even if they look like water and oil.
Perhaps it's the new future goal for the characters that have mastered one of them, and the mastery of both could result in a non-angel character being able to give an angel a run for their money.
Premise/Fact 1:
UI is achieved through thinking about nothing at all.
Premise/Fact 2:
Hakai is achieved through thinking only about destruction.
Deduction: The two states CANNOT possibly be combined! It’s logically impossible. (Provided that the premises are TRUE ofcourse.) Which they are! As these are the official explanations given to us for HOW the forms are achieved! (And these are two totally different and opposite methods by definition!)
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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:31 am

Toriyama the Lion Sin of Laziness: Who decided that?

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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:59 am

Jiren The Alpha wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:31 am
Toriyama the Lion Sin of Laziness: Who decided that?
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. How does this post of yours add anything to this discussion? Please explain, since I’m genuinely curious in hearing what your explanation for it is.
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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:16 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:59 am
Jiren The Alpha wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:31 am
Toriyama the Lion Sin of Laziness: Who decided that?
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. How does this post of yours add anything to this discussion? Please explain, since I’m genuinely curious in hearing what your explanation for it is.
That was a Nanatsu no Taizai reference, sorry :lol:. All I'm saying is that Toriyama is going to chance that like he always does.

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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by Thani » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:05 pm

I like this. If it remains consistent, I'll be pleased.

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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:49 am

Thani wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:05 pm
I like this. If it remains consistent, I'll be pleased.
Thanks.
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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:50 am

Jiren The Alpha wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:16 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:59 am
Jiren The Alpha wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:31 am
Toriyama the Lion Sin of Laziness: Who decided that?
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. How does this post of yours add anything to this discussion? Please explain, since I’m genuinely curious in hearing what your explanation for it is.
That was a Nanatsu no Taizai reference, sorry :lol:. All I'm saying is that Toriyama is going to chance that like he always does.
Chance “what”???!
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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:10 am

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:50 am
Jiren The Alpha wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:16 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:59 am

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. How does this post of yours add anything to this discussion? Please explain, since I’m genuinely curious in hearing what your explanation for it is.
That was a Nanatsu no Taizai reference, sorry :lol:. All I'm saying is that Toriyama is going to chance that like he always does.
Chance “what”???!
"Change" my bad.

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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:08 am

Jiren The Alpha wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:10 am
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:50 am
Jiren The Alpha wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:16 pm


That was a Nanatsu no Taizai reference, sorry :lol:. All I'm saying is that Toriyama is going to chance that like he always does.
Chance “what”???!
"Change" my bad.
Ahh okay. 👍
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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by emperior » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:59 pm

I like this because the implications could be that in the future Goku and Vegeta may fight better by old school 2 on 1 teamwork than by fusing, as fusion could end up dilutive if Gogeta/Vegetto are limited by the fact that both Goku and Vegeta are used to fight in opposite state of minds, which may mean that the fusion cannot use Ultra Instinct or Hakai as well as the fusees.
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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by Thani » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:54 pm

emperior wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:59 pm
I like this because the implications could be that in the future Goku and Vegeta may fight better by old school 2 on 1 teamwork than by fusing, as fusion could end up dilutive if Gogeta/Vegetto are limited by the fact that both Goku and Vegeta are used to fight in opposite state of minds, which may mean that the fusion cannot use Ultra Instinct or Hakai as well as the fusees.
Or even use any at all since the fusion will be in a constantly unstable state of mind. If anything (and I prefer this), I'd rather the fusions stick only to Super Saiyan Blue, since it's already a huge boost in power for them.

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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by ChronoTwigger » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:11 pm

Well, a puzzle for you.
If I think about destroying EVERYTHING, what I visualize just after?
Nothing.
The void.

I dunno why you're so concerned about the thing, no one seems to rise here any discussion about such mix so far.
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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:49 pm

emperior wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:59 pm
I like this because the implications could be that in the future Goku and Vegeta may fight better by old school 2 on 1 teamwork than by fusing, as fusion could end up dilutive if Gogeta/Vegetto are limited by the fact that both Goku and Vegeta are used to fight in opposite state of minds, which may mean that the fusion cannot use Ultra Instinct or Hakai as well as the fusees.
Hmmmm not sure how to feel about this.. I do like the idea of them not using fusion and instead fighting on their own, (or together, in team work), and making themselves stronger through the process and evolve even further for quite a while.

Definitely for the next 10 arcs or so even! But eventually, after a long enough time, I’d like to see an Ultra Instinct Fusion by the very end of Super when they are up against the final big bad.

You could use the theory that only after many long years of getting used to their individual forms, turning one form or the other form on to its fullest ability, will no longer be a problem for Gogeta or Vegito, since Goku will have mastered UI to such an insane degree, while Vegeta will have mastered Hakai to the same level that Goku has mastered UI that it’s easy to do, because so much time has passed for either individual fusees to get used to their opposite forms.
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Re: Important reminder that UI and Hakai CANNOT be combined!

Post by ZodiacBeast » Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:39 am

I hope Vegeta returns to his Spirit Control training to maximize the potential of the technique Beerus is going to show him...and not stop using Instant Transmission just because Goku uses it.

I feel Goku should focus on martial arts, thus Ultra Instinct, and Vegeta should focus on being powerful, with both Spirit Control and Beerus' tech. This fits both characters well.

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