Differences between concentrated attack and normal attack

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1698
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Differences between concentrated attack and normal attack

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:08 pm

It seems a bit strange to talk about this .. since this is something that in the series is very often and although it is not explained directly if it is mentioned frequently but since some think they are inconsistent without realizing that it has been explained us it so seems appropriate to do this topic

Normal attack

Image

Semi-concentrated attack
Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ntj8D2TT0P0

Concentrated attack

Image

The characters can destroy planets, galaxies or universes, however they can concentrate their attacks so that they generate less impact ... the reason why if the attack does not directly impact the character can survive in addition to not destroying the whole place

Vegeta explains

Image

But we can see other examples

Image

later ...

Image

It seems pretty clear to me ...
-Gohan can defeat cell without destroying the galaxy
-Trunks can survive a black´s attack
-Goku can destroy baby without destroying the sun etc etc

Of course I don't think I have the absolute truth .. so you can say your opinions ... but with respect
Last edited by Tai Lung on Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6354
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Differences between concentrated attack and normal attack

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:42 pm

Well it's been shown with the introduction of hakai that violating the conservation of energy (making energy simply appear/disappear to nowhere) isn't a normal ability like many people used to claim. It's a unique ability that no one could use before Beerus was introduced.

So really the lack of expected collateral damage in many cases has to just be chalked up to plot.

In some cases like Gohan killing Cell, the beam went into space so that's fine, but in cases like Majin Vegeta's suicide against Buu, there's really no way to explain* how Vegeta could have released all of his ki at once and not destroyed the Earth. So it's really just plot convenience that he didn't, even though he 'realistically' should have.




*logically and scientifically
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
GodVegetto91
I Live Here
Posts: 2813
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:49 pm

Re: Differences between concentrated attack and normal attack

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:01 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:42 pm
Well it's been shown with the introduction of hakai that violating the conservation of energy (making energy simply appear/disappear to nowhere) isn't a normal ability like many people used to claim. It's a unique ability that no one could use before Beerus was introduced.

So really the lack of expected collateral damage in many cases has to just be chalked up to plot.

In some cases like Gohan killing Cell, the beam went into space so that's fine, but in cases like Majin Vegeta's suicide against Buu, there's really no way to explain* how Vegeta could have released all of his ki at once and not destroyed the Earth. So it's really just plot convenience that he didn't, even though he 'realistically' should have.




*logically and scientifically
And this is exactly why Dragon Ball is fiction.

Energy can NEVER be created or destroyed. Only transformed. — The first law of thermodynamics.

But ofcourse, in Dragon Ball, it CAN happen because it doesn’t have to follow real life rules.

That said, from an in-universe perspective, I think it’s the ultimate idea..! If you want to introduce a truly OP power and ability, having something that genuinely VIOLATES the eternal laws of mathematics is precisely what we’re looking for when it comes to “GOD Power”.

And this is why Gods of Destruction are feared all throughout the multiverse and are known as the pinnacle of power.
Every new thought that you have, NEGATES your previous thought!

This is the answer to existence.

Are you able to see it?

User avatar
Lionel
I Live Here
Posts: 2061
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:54 am

Re: Differences between concentrated attack and normal attack

Post by Lionel » Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:39 pm

Energy emissions like the referenced explosive demon wave seem to be omnidirectionally controlled whereas the Special Beam Cannon is compacted and honed with the added quality of rotary based kinetic energy to help it in being able to penetrate a small area of mass. Although it seems like with the level of ki being used a large impact area can still happen. Characters such as Vegeta and Gohan were likely maintaining a more condensed qualitative based power burst that destroyed less earth next to what Freeza uses for the intended purpose of destroying worlds.

theherodjl
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1778
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Re: Differences between concentrated attack and normal attack

Post by theherodjl » Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:32 am

Remember in the ToP when Freeza produced a large ball of Ki against Hakaishin Toppo, one that he then bragged about having the "power to destroy a planet"? Why exactly would Freeza think that would still be something impressive when he should by all rights, be hundreds of times more poweful than Super Perfect Cell and the solar kamehameha? Its like touting about how you got a nuke that can blow up a house when a nuke can actually level an entire town.
Freeza should have said that his ball of Ki could take out a star system as that is closer to the level of destruction that DB characters are at nowadays.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

User avatar
Koitsukai
I Live Here
Posts: 2102
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: Differences between concentrated attack and normal attack

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:02 am

theherodjl wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:32 am
Remember in the ToP when Freeza produced a large ball of Ki against Hakaishin Toppo, one that he then bragged about having the "power to destroy a planet"? Why exactly would Freeza think that would still be something impressive when he should by all rights, be hundreds of times more poweful than Super Perfect Cell and the solar kamehameha? Its like touting about how you got a nuke that can blow up a house when a nuke can actually level an entire town.
Freeza should have said that his ball of Ki could take out a star system as that is closer to the level of destruction that DB characters are at nowadays.
I know the answer probably is writers giving dumb lines to characters, but maybe it's a case of that attack actually being able to wipe a planet immediately.
On Namek it took a while for reasons, on Earth his ki blast took a moment, when he blew up Vegeta also wasn't instantly destroyed. Vegeta on Earth tried to destroy the Earth but I guess it would've taken some time because he still had to retrieve his spaceship and leave, so the explosion would've been progressive otherwise he would've been killed too.
Perhaps that attack against a planet would've been an insta-kill unlike the previous attacks directed to other planets? I mean even faster in blowing it up than previously seen.

User avatar
Tai Lung
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1698
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:38 pm

Re: Differences between concentrated attack and normal attack

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:24 am

theherodjl wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:32 am
Remember in the ToP when Freeza produced a large ball of Ki against Hakaishin Toppo, one that he then bragged about having the "power to destroy a planet"? Why exactly would Freeza think that would still be something impressive when he should by all rights, be hundreds of times more poweful than Super Perfect Cell and the solar kamehameha? Its like touting about how you got a nuke that can blow up a house when a nuke can actually level an entire town.
Freeza should have said that his ball of Ki could take out a star system as that is closer to the level of destruction that DB characters are at nowadays.
Koitsukai wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:02 am
I know the answer probably is writers giving dumb lines to characters, but maybe it's a case of that attack actually being able to wipe a planet immediately.
On Namek it took a while for reasons, on Earth his ki blast took a moment, when he blew up Vegeta also wasn't instantly destroyed. Vegeta on Earth tried to destroy the Earth but I guess it would've taken some time because he still had to retrieve his spaceship and leave, so the explosion would've been progressive otherwise he would've been killed too.
Perhaps that attack against a planet would've been an insta-kill unlike the previous attacks directed to other planets? I mean even faster in blowing it up than previously seen.
well the thing about frieza was just a reference to namek if you take into account the similar scene ... anyway semi-perfect cell , buu and moro have threatened to destroy the earth ... but it doesn't mean it's just their maximum

theherodjl
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1778
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Re: Differences between concentrated attack and normal attack

Post by theherodjl » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:43 am

Koitsukai wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:02 am
I know the answer probably is writers giving dumb lines to characters, but maybe it's a case of that attack actually being able to wipe a planet immediately.
On Namek it took a while for reasons, on Earth his ki blast took a moment, when he blew up Vegeta also wasn't instantly destroyed. Vegeta on Earth tried to destroy the Earth but I guess it would've taken some time because he still had to retrieve his spaceship and leave, so the explosion would've been progressive otherwise he would've been killed too.
Perhaps that attack against a planet would've been an insta-kill unlike the previous attacks directed to other planets? I mean even faster in blowing it up than previously seen.
Probably. Toriyama was the guy who originally wrote about Cell-tier characters having the power to destroy a solar system and then, possibly for simplicity's sake in future dialogue, everyone just reverted back to "Amazing! He's actually going to destroy the whole planet?!?" as though the destruction of Earth/whichever planet meant that a character was ultra-powerful. Beerus was even somewhat guilty of that when he claimed that Monaka could destroy a planet just by concentrating too hard, ignoring the fact that he & Goku's first fight threatened the universe and that Monaka was supposed to have been significantly stronger that their level of power in that battle.
It reminds me of how people still sometimes impressed about Superman being "more powerful than a locomotive" when he was already way stronger than a locomotive in his early comics.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6354
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Differences between concentrated attack and normal attack

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:59 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:43 am
Koitsukai wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:02 am
I know the answer probably is writers giving dumb lines to characters, but maybe it's a case of that attack actually being able to wipe a planet immediately.
On Namek it took a while for reasons, on Earth his ki blast took a moment, when he blew up Vegeta also wasn't instantly destroyed. Vegeta on Earth tried to destroy the Earth but I guess it would've taken some time because he still had to retrieve his spaceship and leave, so the explosion would've been progressive otherwise he would've been killed too.
Perhaps that attack against a planet would've been an insta-kill unlike the previous attacks directed to other planets? I mean even faster in blowing it up than previously seen.
Probably. Toriyama was the guy who originally wrote about Cell-tier characters having the power to destroy a solar system and then, possibly for simplicity's sake in future dialogue, everyone just reverted back to "Amazing! He's actually going to destroy the whole planet?!?" as though the destruction of Earth/whichever planet meant that a character was ultra-powerful. Beerus was even somewhat guilty of that when he claimed that Monaka could destroy a planet just by concentrating too hard, ignoring the fact that he & Goku's first fight threatened the universe and that Monaka was supposed to have been significantly stronger that their level of power in that battle.
It reminds me of how people still sometimes impressed about Superman being "more powerful than a locomotive" when he was already way stronger than a locomotive in his early comics.
Actually in the first Golden Age comics, the whole speeding bullet/locomotive speech basically described the extent of his powers. He couldn't even fly yet.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

Post Reply