"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Grimlock]

I’m thinking its 40 years for one reason. If it was 50 years, based on what we know Granola would have been an Infant and couldn’t have remembered his people.

Maki mentioned how Cerealians live for like 200 years, and Granolah Confirms and says he sacrificed his remaining 150 years of his life with three years to spare. Meaning he’s 47 years old. If it was 50 years ago he would have been 3 years old. He could not have remembered it that as well as he does at that age.


It being 40 years ago makes sense as he would have been 7 years old and could have remembered the Saiyans.

Edit: This would mean his planet was attacked in age 740, which is what the Dragon Ball Wiki Says so at least someone else thinks so

You mean specifically forty years? If so, we have bigger problems: AGE 781 - 40 = AGE 741.

AGE 741 may work from the character's age point of view, but that year is two years after the destruction of planet Vegeta, which wiped out most Saiyans.

I spent too much time thinking about this but the only year that makes sense for Planet Cereal to be attacked, Granolah to be old enough to remember it, and have Saiyans still be around to do it is in Age 737 a few months before Frieza destroyed Vegeta.

Granolah would have been 4 years old at the time but he could remember. The Saiyans would be there but wiped out soon after.

Which may explain a few things, they are still trying to go with the old and known information. But the event that the Saiyans/planet Vegeta were destroyed in AGE 737 is no longer the actual information.

The Jaco, the Galactic Patrolman manga changed that to AGE 739. It's the year Goku arrives on Earth and presumably the year Dragon Ball Minus takes place too.

It's because they are trying to go with the previous information that Dragon Ball Super Broly brings a huge problem with its "41 years ago" right in the beginning of the movie. It should've appeared "46 years ago" on-screen, to go along with the new information.

However, though Dragon Ball Super: Broly messed up on how long ago the events of its First Act took place, it did nevertheless establish that Freeza took control of the Cold Force 5 years before he destroyed the Saiyans, which would be c. AGE 732; if the Saiyans attacked Planet Cereal almost immediately after Freeza took over, this would just about line up with Granolah saying it happened 50 years ago (if you count back 50 from 781, including that year, rather than just subtracting 50, then you get to 732) and justify him having a special grudge against Freeza personally. It would also mean the Heeters were in league with Freeza personally from pretty much the moment of his accession to power, which would be an interesting extra little detail to infer.

I see that you are also going with the old information (Freeza makes an alliance with the Saiyans in AGE 732 and five years later, AGE 737, Saiyans are wiped out). You may find a way to solve stuff in the past, but what about the present? AGE 732 + 50 = AGE 782. That's one year ahead of the year we're in. However, if we assume that Granolah rounded it up, we can actually say/use forty nine instead of fifty (AGE 732 + 49 = AGE 781. Bingo!).

Still, that kinda makes sense but a little workaround is required here. I think it kinda makes sense because it seems that's exactly how they want things to be. But like I said above, these old dates were changed thanks to the Jaco manga. That's the problem. Freeza's alliance with the Saiyans occurred in AGE 734 and the timeskip of five years gets us to the Dragon Ball Minus part (Dragon Ball Super Broly), and no workaround is required in this scenario.

He’s been interacting with the broader space underworld as a bounty hunter for decades now. Freeza was a big player and it’s not like his employment of the Saiyans was a secret.

If he wasn’t aware before the Saiyans came to Cereal, he likely would have been shortly after.

Yeah, I probably shouldn't underestimate Freeza's popularity.

[Magnificent Ponta]

You may find a way to solve stuff in the past, but what about the present? AGE 732 + 50 = AGE 782. That's one year ahead of the year we're in. However, if we assume that Granolah rounded it up, we can actually say/use forty nine instead of fifty (AGE 732 + 49 = AGE 781. Bingo!).

That's one possibility. Or, you could perhaps reckon it as follows:

732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741
742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751
752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761
762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771
772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781

50 years listed there, if reckoned to include the one we're in currently.

But like I said above, these old dates were changed thanks to the Jaco manga. That's the problem.

Interesting. Are you referring just to Omori's statement that Jaco took place "around 10 years ago" from the perspective of the beginning of Dragon Ball, or is there some other hard-and-fast datum you're referring to that doesn't allow us to wander slightly further afield (after all, one could suggest that 11 years and X months fits okay under 'around 10 years')? And would continuing to reckon the events at 737 throw anything else off (apart from the Broly '41 years ago', which is problematic anyway as presented), to the best of your knowledge?

[Grimlock]

Yes, I'm referring to Omori's statement. Since Goku arrives on Earth on a different date, we have to presume that the destruction of Vegeta also changed, while at the same time trying to keep things as consistent as possible (like characters' ages, for instance. Even in this scenario, we can still say that Goku was born in AGE 737 and that Gine rounded up the time he spent in the incubator. At best, taking Gine's words literally and say that Goku was born in AGE 736 and assume that Goku is twelve-turning-thirteen in AGE 749).

If we start believing that everything is still the same, Goku's departure to Earth and the destruction of Vegeta took place in AGE 737 while still taking into consideration the latest information, that would put Goku's birth date in AGE 734... That alone would screw everything (other characters' ages like Bulma's would also change and complicate things even more).

There's no way to reconciliate the old and the new. Either the Jaco manga (and its AGE 739 date) is correct or the old information (and its AGE 737) is.

[Magnificent Ponta]

If we start believing that everything is still the same, Goku's departure to Earth and the destruction of Vegeta took place in AGE 737 while still taking into consideration the latest information, that would put Goku's birth date in AGE 734... That alone would screw everything (other characters' ages like Bulma's would also change and complicate things even more).

Would this particular difficulty be alleviated if Saiyans were regarded as being 'born' once their incubation period is complete? Speculative, admittedly, but thought I'd put it out there.

[batistabus]

Would this particular difficulty be alleviated if Saiyans were regarded as being 'born' once their incubation period is complete? Speculative, admittedly, but thought I'd put it out there.

While I couldn't care less about timelines in DB, this would be a really cool tidbit of Saiyan culture, and it would jive well with other things we know about them.

[Grimlock]

Would this particular difficulty be alleviated if Saiyans were regarded as being 'born' once their incubation period is complete? Speculative, admittedly, but thought I'd put it out there.

No. Just because a Saiyan is in the incubator doesn't mean they haven't been born yet. It's a living being there (in Goku's case, an almost three-year-old living being), ready to come out.

[batistabus]

Would this particular difficulty be alleviated if Saiyans were regarded as being 'born' once their incubation period is complete? Speculative, admittedly, but thought I'd put it out there.

What? No. Just because a Saiyan is in the incubator doesn't mean they haven't been born yet. It's a living being there (in Goku's case, an almost three-year-old living being), ready to come out.

Like Ponta said, it's just brainstorming, but look at it this way. In some Asian countries, you are born at 1 year old. In Europe, for example, you are 0 when you are born. For Saiyans, a culture that only cares about fighting, perhaps you are not considered "born" until you are released from the pod...aka able to fight.

[Grimlock]

That is weird... But alright, even if I concede to that, I have to point out that when Bardock decides to launch Goku, Gine doesn't say anything about "he hasn't even been born yet", she just says "he can't even speak", or something like that. Regardless, I'd like to clarify that despite finding it weird, it works just fine, I guess. It's an alien race we're talking about, after all.

Anyway, besides characters' ages, I do have to bring up another problem that going with the old information brings: Beerus' nap time.

In Movie 14 we learn that Beerus was asleep for thirty nine years. Movie 14 takes place in AGE 778 and cannot have its date changed (Videl's pregnancy ensures that).

AGE 778 - 39 = AGE 739. It lines up perfectly with the new information. In this case, Beerus went to sleep days, weeks or months prior to Vegeta's destruction. So when he wakes up, he has to ask Whis what happened to the Saiyans.

AGE 739 is two years after the original date of Vegeta's destruction, which, in that case, would make Beerus goes to sleep two years after the planet's destruction. So he should know that the Saiyans were wiped out. How would you guys explain/reconciliate that?

[Magnificent Ponta]

AGE 739 is two years after the original date of Vegeta's destruction, which, in that case, would make Beerus goes to sleep two years after the planet's destruction. So he should know that the Saiyans were wiped out. How would you guys explain/reconciliate that?

Oooh, an interesting one. The manga offers a couple of possibilities that spring to mind:

• Beerus mentions in Chapter 2 that he forgot he asked Freeza to destroy the Saiyans, so it's clear he didn't check, so he doesn't know and hasn't thought about it. In that case, it wouldn't matter if he went to sleep slightly after the Saiyans were destroyed, as he didn't bother to find out. So, he could still go to sleep in AGE 739 and wake up in 778 without necessarily knowing that the Saiyans were, in fact, destroyed in AGE 737.
• Alternatively, the manga shows Beerus up and destroying in Chapter 1, at what we might possibly think of as an earlier date than the events of Battle of Gods on Earth (it being interspersed with Mr. Satan bribing Goku not to tell about Majin Buu, they might be roughly contemporaneous - official external sources say Dragon Ball Super starts 6 months after the fight with Buu, and Goku mentions the bribe as a past event in Yo! Son Goku and Friends Return!, which takes place 2 years after Majin Buu); so, Beerus could go to sleep in, say, AGE 735/6, and wake up in AGE 774/5, by the manga's accounting, and so still have gone to sleep before the Saiyans were destroyed. It would require Beerus to dawdle in his thinking about the Super Saiyan God for quite a while before actually going to see Goku in Chapter 2, but it's not necessarily insuperably awkward: Beerus is, after all, very lazy.

Or one could combine aspects of these suggestions in some fashion.

I'm obviously not wedded to anything I've suggested so far, as I first suggested that Granolah is simply rounding his 50 years and still think that's probable enough - this is just a set of fun (to me) speculations that attempt to reconcile as much of the data as I can think to do.

[GalaxyBusterBuu]

You think they'll explain the dates properly? Cuz I'm really confused when all this happened.

[Kinokima]

Surprised how few spoilers there have been for this chapter. Just more of Goku & Vegeta training and the last page with Granolah

The only thing we really learned was Goku being able to use UI in his base form as the goal which isn’t exactly Earth shattering

I mean I suppose it’s nice not to know the entire chapter ahead of time. But now that I posted this the spoilers will probably come a day before the chapter is out.

[GodVegetto91]

Surprised how few spoilers there have been for this chapter. Just more of Goku & Vegeta training and the last page with Granolah

The only thing we really learned was Goku being able to use UI in his base form as the goal which isn’t exactly Earth shattering

I mean I suppose it’s nice not to know the entire chapter ahead of time. But now that I posted this the spoilers will probably come a day before the chapter is out.

DBS Hype is doing this on purpose just to fuck with us. He is selling the full manga chapter to YouTubers like UnrealEntGaming (As I know for a fact he had certain manga panels in his video’s last months that DBS Hype hadn’t posted yet at that point in time when UnrealEntGaming released his video’s.)

Each new month, DBS Hype has been giving us less and less, even “removing the Japanese dialogue” of the manga panels.. Who the hell does he think he is???!

[Grimlock]

The manga offers a couple of possibilities that spring to mind

Well, I don't consider/follow the manga continuity, so I'm not aware of any of this. I'm just gonna have to trust you that these possibilities work for that continuity. But they still won't explain Movie 14.

You think they'll explain the dates properly? Cuz I'm really confused when all this happened.

No. At least not as long as they keep refusing to do a guidebook/Daizenshuu 8 for Dragon Ball Super.

Just know that in order for these new events to be happen without major inconsistencies, some stuff that happens in-universe must be ignored (like summoning Shenlong, for instance). If you consider every detail, everything, then you'll have to deal with headaches.

[Kinokima]

Surprised how few spoilers there have been for this chapter. Just more of Goku & Vegeta training and the last page with Granolah

The only thing we really learned was Goku being able to use UI in his base form as the goal which isn’t exactly Earth shattering

I mean I suppose it’s nice not to know the entire chapter ahead of time. But now that I posted this the spoilers will probably come a day before the chapter is out.

DBS Hype is doing this on purpose just to fuck with us. He is selling the full manga chapter to YouTubers like UnrealEntGaming (As I know for a fact he had certain manga panels in his video’s last months that DBS Hype hadn’t posted yet at that point in time when UnrealEntGaming released his video’s.)

Each new month, DBS Hype has been giving us less and less, even “removing the Japanese dialogue” of the manga panels.. Who the hell does he think he is???!

I don’t really think he has to share any Spoilers. We aren’t entitled to them

[GalaxyBusterBuu]

Well great. I just hope there aren't any major inconsistencies up ahead. We don't need that type of inconsistency in a time and story like this, especially if it ends up contradicting anything.

[GodVegetto91]

Well great. I just hope there aren't any major inconsistencies up ahead. We don't need that type of inconsistency in a time and story like this, especially if it ends up contradicting anything.

I just hope they get rid of transformations altogether at this point for Goku and Vegeta, with the sole exception of SSJ1 (which I want to transform to SSJ White for Goku and SSJ Purple for Vegeta respectively, as the SOLE transformation of the future!)

[GalaxyBusterBuu]

Well great. I just hope there aren't any major inconsistencies up ahead. We don't need that type of inconsistency in a time and story like this, especially if it ends up contradicting anything.

I just hope they get rid of transformations altogether at this point for Goku and Vegeta, with the sole exception of SSJ1 (which I want to transform to SSJ White for Goku and SSJ Purple for Vegeta respectively, as the SOLE transformation of the future!)

Honestly as long as we avoid SSJ Rainbow I won't care(My fucking eyes would bleed if that was a thing). There are like fifty forms and honestly they should probably give other fighters these forms since it's obvious Goku and Vegeta don't really need 1000 transformations to choose from with how powerful they are. Seriously, I think the other fighters need transformations more than Goku and Vegeta do at this point.

[batistabus]

Honestly as long as we avoid SSJ Rainbow I won't care(My fucking eyes would bleed if that was a thing). There are like fifty forms and honestly they should probably give other fighters these forms since it's obvious Goku and Vegeta don't really need 1000 transformations to choose from with how powerful they are. Seriously, I think the other fighters need transformations more than Goku and Vegeta do at this point.

This seems to be a decision to move away from transformations, not toward more absurdity. Toriyama went that route with Gohan in the Boo arc and tried to go that route immediately after Battle of Gods (where Goku was said/implied to have absorbed God into his base form but apparently didn't for the U6 tournament). Ultimately, the way Super unfolded diverted that path, but here we are.

[GalaxyBusterBuu]

Hope your right, bats. Because I'm not in the mood to see SSJ Rainbow or SSJ Platinum. Especially since Goku and Vegeta have gotten so strong they literally don't need a good portion of these forms.

[GodVegetto91]

Hope your right, bats. Because I'm not in the mood to see SSJ Rainbow or SSJ Platinum. Especially since Goku and Vegeta have gotten so strong they literally don't need a good portion of these forms.

It’s like I said, I’m tired of the already existing ones aswell.. Especially SSJ Blue Evolution! It’s best to just get rid of any other form than SSJ1, and give it a recolor for Goku and Vegeta.. Thereby, ending the transformations for good! They already had the God powers in Base now with UI and Hakai respectively!