Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:40 pm

If Beerus' raw power is what keeps him ahead of Goku and not being a hakai master, then:
ZombieVito wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:32 pm
So if Beerus is a 100. Where do these fighters fall into now?

Goku (UI): 97
Moro (Merus): 97
Gogeta (SSB):95
Moro (73): 95
Jiren (LB):93
Broly (FPSS):93
Moro: 92
Vegeta (SSBE):91
Jiren: 91
Goku (UI Omen):90
Toppo (GoD): 87
Kefla (SS2):85
Fused Zamasu (Corrupted):84
If it's hakai what puts Beerus on top:

Goku (UI): 105
Moro (Merus): 105
Gogeta (SSB):101
Moro (73): 101
Jiren (LB):99
Broly (FPSS):99
Moro: 97
Vegeta (SSBE):95
Jiren: 95
Goku (UI Omen):94
Toppo (GoD): 90
Kefla (SS2):88
Fused Zamasu (Corrupted):86

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:42 pm

Yeah, I'm kind of expecting a new form too. I know it's not a popular idea among the fandom (especially if it's recolor), but the way I see it, this new form would serve to represent his newly obtained Hakai powers just like Goku's transformations represented Ultra Instinct.

The transformation itself doesn't necessarily need previous evidence / indication because the foreshadowing is the technique itself (Hakai / UI). It's fine if there is no new form tho, I think it would just mean that Vegeta has strengthened himself to the point that he doesn't need a new form to match Goku (just like when he overcame Omen using SSBE). Or then there will be just some explanation that Hakai massively boosted Vegeta’s raw power or something along these lines.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:17 am

Krillin1994 wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:26 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:15 pm
I really hope Vegeta is not going to use that stupid, ugly, and outdated SSBE form of his... I’ve had enough of it for quite some time already.. (And I know many other fans share that opinion with me!)

I’m really hoping that Vegeta gets a new Purple haired Form...

(But seeing the lack of evidence/indication that it will happen has left me feeling hopeless and down...)

It would truly suck and a big “fuck you” in the face of fans who wanted Vegeta to get a new purple haired form and get rid of that damned SSBE if Toyotaro had Vegeta just continue to use his SSBE form as if nothing ever happened..

You’re feeling hopeless and down that Vegeta might not get a purple haired form that is something that hadn’t been indicated/any evidence for?

What makes fans thinks he should get a purple form?m
because Beerus is purple?

I actually think Goku mastering UI in his base means he will therefore be able to use it on whatever new transformation eventually comes. Not just the silver haired UI in a pinch.

I think although Goku and Vegeta are further diverging on techniques/fighting style, that they will still both get the same transformations as it’s too convenient a backtrack on UI.
Because every God of Destruction in the Anime possesses the purple aura of destruction.

It’s been showcased once when they all got mad at Goku during the Zen Exhibition matches and powered up in disgust of his actions, including the Goddess of Destruction Helles from Universe 2, and another time when 3 of the top 4 universes Gods fought against eachother in a contest of strength before the Grand Priest and the sleeping Omni-King’s. Then there’s Toppo with the exact same color of Aura ofcourse! I think you get the point. People are tired of seeing Blue.. That color has existed since 2014! It’s time for a recolor.. Purple is a new one, and it’s darker and closer to the beautiful color Red! It’s perfect!!!!
Last edited by GodVegetto91 on Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:19 am

Thani wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:49 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:15 pm
I really hope Vegeta is not going to use that stupid, ugly, and outdated SSBE form of his... I’ve had enough of it for quite some time already.. (And I know many other fans share that opinion with me!)

I’m really hoping that Vegeta gets a new Purple haired Form...

(But seeing the lack of evidence/indication that it will happen has left me feeling hopeless and down...)

It would truly suck and a big “fuck you” in the face of fans who wanted Vegeta to get a new purple haired form and get rid of that damned SSBE if Toyotaro had Vegeta just continue to use his SSBE form as if nothing ever happened..
You know who else shares that opinion?
Image
:lol:
So if Beerus is a 100. Where do these fighters fall into now?
I... Honestly don't know. The Moro arc was a mess of power retcons. As far as I can tell, if we go by the anime but with the information all medium provided us, which is probably inaccurate nowadays...

Beerus: 100
Whis: 150

Goku (UI): 100~120
Goku (UI Omen): 60
Vegeta (SSBE): 65
Gogeta (SSB): 120
Moro (Earth): Irrelevant, it could even at 200 and it wouldn't be efficient. But for the sake of it, 120 and growing.
Moro (Merus): 100~120
Moro (73): 90
Moro: 80
Jiren (LB): 100~120
Jiren: 90
Broly (FPSS): 99~110
Toppo (GoD): 50
Kefla (SS2): 50
Fused Zamasu (Corrupted): 90
FT Vegito: 100
Haha thanks. I had a laugh seeing Merged Zamasu say that. And he NAILED it perfectly! I fully agree with him on this one. It made me smile.

“There is no future for SSJ Blue, it’s an outdated transformation.”

Perfectly said!
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:24 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:42 pm
Yeah, I'm kind of expecting a new form too. I know it's not a popular idea among the fandom (especially if it's recolor), but the way I see it, this new form would serve to represent his newly obtained Hakai powers just like Goku's transformations represented Ultra Instinct.

The transformation itself doesn't necessarily need previous evidence / indication because the foreshadowing is the technique itself (Hakai / UI). It's fine if there is no new form tho, I think it would just mean that Vegeta has strengthened himself to the point that he doesn't need a new form to match Goku (just like when he overcame Omen using SSBE). Or then there will be just some explanation that Hakai massively boosted Vegeta’s raw power or something along these lines.
Exactly!!!

We need a form that “REPRESENTS” Vegeta’s newly acquired “Hakai” powers...

And since DBS is all about recolors (and I am too!) Purple is the only logical choice!
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:11 am

What pains me of Fused Zamasu in the manga is that he sees Goku going completed Blue and he never even tries to do it. He would have stomped Goku with it.

Unlike the anime version that immediately after getting damaged goes Corrupted and powers up greatly.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:13 am

ZombieVito wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:11 am
What pains me of Fused Zamasu in the manga is that he sees Goku going completed Blue and he never even tries to do it. He would have stomped Goku with it.

Unlike the anime version that immediately after getting damaged goes Corrupted and powers up greatly.
What's worse is that he deems Blue an outdated form... While Rosé is literally the same transformation, which he's using.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:12 am

Thani wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:13 am
ZombieVito wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:11 am
What pains me of Fused Zamasu in the manga is that he sees Goku going completed Blue and he never even tries to do it. He would have stomped Goku with it.

Unlike the anime version that immediately after getting damaged goes Corrupted and powers up greatly.
What's worse is that he deems Blue an outdated form... While Rosé is literally the same transformation, which he's using.
Rosé is when a God surpasses SSG, Blue is when a ningen surpasses SSG, so technically Rosé is indeed nobler and more dignified than Blue. Even the colour is more regal and elegant.
And yet you still have the desire to fight me, don't you? Go ahead and challenge me all you like until you realize your own sheer impotence.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Krillin1994 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:27 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:12 am
Thani wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:13 am
ZombieVito wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:11 am
What pains me of Fused Zamasu in the manga is that he sees Goku going completed Blue and he never even tries to do it. He would have stomped Goku with it.

Unlike the anime version that immediately after getting damaged goes Corrupted and powers up greatly.
What's worse is that he deems Blue an outdated form... While Rosé is literally the same transformation, which he's using.
Rosé is when a God surpasses SSG, Blue is when a ningen surpasses SSG, so technically Rosé is indeed nobler and more dignified than Blue. Even the colour is more regal and elegant.
‘Royal blue’ as a colour begs to differ, and historically actually not seen anything about nobility and pink. Purple has been more typically associated with royalty in the past.

Zamasu is working from a higher base and getting powerboosts as the plot demands it - Saiyan near death boost in manga, rage in the anime. Hence his godly Super Saiyan transformation being higher than Goku/Vegeta. I did always take it as thematically a black rose as a harbinger of death and despair to mankind.

Vegeta surpasses Rosé in his blue in the Manga definitively. In the anime he gives him a beat down before Black gets a rage boost and somehow slashes a hole to give himself cloning powers......


Also this constantly using ningen comes across quite cringe at times. I get people using Japanese naming for characters or collective titles (i.e Yonkou in one piece as those are created terms) but just randomly saying ‘humans’ in Japanese in otherwise entirely English sentences just seems odd.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:32 am

Krillin1994 wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:27 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:12 am
Thani wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:13 am


What's worse is that he deems Blue an outdated form... While Rosé is literally the same transformation, which he's using.
Rosé is when a God surpasses SSG, Blue is when a ningen surpasses SSG, so technically Rosé is indeed nobler and more dignified than Blue. Even the colour is more regal and elegant.
‘Royal blue’ as a colour begs to differ, and historically actually not seen anything about nobility and pink. Purple has been more typically associated with royalty in the past.
SSB doesn't look like royal blue at all, your point would have made more sense if we were talking about Vegeta's Evolved form. And even then Rose is indeed a colour much more closely associated to beauty, grace, elegance than blue.
Also this constantly using ningen comes across quite cringe at times. I get people using Japanese naming for characters or collective titles (i.e Yonkou in one piece as those are created terms) but just randomly saying ‘humans’ in Japanese in otherwise entirely English sentences just seems odd.
That's too bad I guess :eh:
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Krillin1994 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:51 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:32 am
Krillin1994 wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:27 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:12 am


Rosé is when a God surpasses SSG, Blue is when a ningen surpasses SSG, so technically Rosé is indeed nobler and more dignified than Blue. Even the colour is more regal and elegant.
‘Royal blue’ as a colour begs to differ, and historically actually not seen anything about nobility and pink. Purple has been more typically associated with royalty in the past.
SSB doesn't look like royal blue at all, your point would have made more sense if we were talking about Vegeta's Evolved form. And even then Rose is indeed a colour much more closely associated to beauty, grace, elegance than blue.
Also this constantly using ningen comes across quite cringe at times. I get people using Japanese naming for characters or collective titles (i.e Yonkou in one piece as those are created terms) but just randomly saying ‘humans’ in Japanese in otherwise entirely English sentences just seems odd.
That's too bad I guess :eh:
Royal blue historically was a darker shade, but has come to be seen as a brighter blue in the modern day.

If you want to broadly break down blue into three areas.

Navy blue - seen to be darkest blue
Royal blue - the standard normal blue that people think of when picturing blue
Sky blue - pretty explanatory

But I wasn’t specifically saying that their transformations were royal blue, just that blue has more regal connotations than Rosé. - which I can only really say for U.K. has the war of the roses for the throne from Tudor times (on white and red roses). The Labour Party the party generally for the working class has the rose as its symbol.... quite the opposite of regal.

Love, passion, beauty are more akin to a standard rose. Which you can say for Zamasu’s indulgent self love and vanity. The fact that he thinks a world without mortals will be more beautiful and that form allows him to achieve it.

But Zamasu is more likely going for Rosé in the sense it’s pink like the alcoholic drink which is just tying more into the alcoholic naming style of modern DB. Though interestingly more so for the destroyers and their attendants who we see to be superior to the Kais. So maybe there’s also a bit of humour that he’s shifted from a creational Kai to someone destroying everything. Hence an alcohol name for the form.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:52 am

Vegeta needed months of training to be able to successfully use Mastered Super Saiyan Blue. And he knew exactly how this form worked and the method to use it (knowledge gained after merging with Goku).

It seems very unlikely that Zamasu, just looking at it, would be able to reproduce the same thing. Especially considering that Goku himself also didn't have much experience with the form at that time (since it caused considerable damage to him because of the difficulty in sealing the aura within the body)

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:21 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:52 am
Vegeta needed months of training to be able to successfully use Mastered Super Saiyan Blue. And he knew exactly how this form worked and the method to use it (knowledge gained after merging with Goku).

It seems very unlikely that Zamasu, just looking at it, would be able to reproduce the same thing. Especially considering that Goku himself also didn't have much experience with the form at that time (since it caused considerable damage to him because of the difficulty in sealing the aura within the body)
My beef is that he never tries it. Even if he fails, he can simply regenerate and be good as new.

He doesn't even comment how Goku by himself is fighting him on par. It's bizarre.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:28 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:21 pm
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:52 am
Vegeta needed months of training to be able to successfully use Mastered Super Saiyan Blue. And he knew exactly how this form worked and the method to use it (knowledge gained after merging with Goku).

It seems very unlikely that Zamasu, just looking at it, would be able to reproduce the same thing. Especially considering that Goku himself also didn't have much experience with the form at that time (since it caused considerable damage to him because of the difficulty in sealing the aura within the body)
My beef is that he never tries it. Even if he fails, he can simply regenerate and be good as new.

He doesn't even comment how Goku by himself is fighting him on par. It's bizarre.
Indeed. Also, the Complete Super Saiyan Blue is literally just an answer to the elephant on the room that is: the ki leaks out something fierce, so the power drops fast. Zamasu, as Black, does have limited experience with it - he has had Rosé for what, two days now? But he definitely should have felt that.

Hence why I think it weird for him not to try... Unless, since he's now immortal, his power doesn't drop while fused. Hence, he's using 100% of his full power 100% of the time... Hence, Completed Super Saiyan Rosé, putting him on the same level as Goku, while Future Zamasu himself provides a negligible increase in power.

Anyway, I just think it's ironic he's saying that when they're both using the same form.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:30 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:21 pm
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:52 am
Vegeta needed months of training to be able to successfully use Mastered Super Saiyan Blue. And he knew exactly how this form worked and the method to use it (knowledge gained after merging with Goku).

It seems very unlikely that Zamasu, just looking at it, would be able to reproduce the same thing. Especially considering that Goku himself also didn't have much experience with the form at that time (since it caused considerable damage to him because of the difficulty in sealing the aura within the body)
My beef is that he never tries it. Even if he fails, he can simply regenerate and be good as new.

He doesn't even comment how Goku by himself is fighting him on par. It's bizarre.
The anime avoids this issue since Merged Zamasu actually does improve in power (at the cost of any sanity he had left and his body falling apart despite still being able to heal) dramatically when he decides to actually go about doing so, putting him on a level that could almost rival SSB Vegito.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:58 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:21 pm
My beef is that he never tries it. Even if he fails, he can simply regenerate and be good as new.

He doesn't even comment how Goku by himself is fighting him on par. It's bizarre.
Maybe he should have tried, yes, but his superiority complex was clearly high enough for him to even demean Super Saiyan Blue as an ''outdated form'', just because he was in a superior position in the battle (in terms of strength), despite the fact that Vegetto literally kicked his ass just moments before with that same transformation, let alone try the same method that a human tried (one that he was just seeing from the outside)

Vegeta also didn't try and just straight up asked Trunks to heal Goku instead of him, even though he has actual knowledge on how to do it. It was impossible to use right off the bat just by knowing the theory, apparently.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:31 pm

Thani wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:28 pm
Hence why I think it weird for him not to try... Unless, since he's now immortal, his power doesn't drop while fused. Hence, he's using 100% of his full power 100% of the time... Hence, Completed Super Saiyan Rosé, putting him on the same level as Goku, while Future Zamasu himself provides a negligible increase in power.
It's confirmed the fusion boost was big on the image I posted a page or so ago. Fused Zamasu is not using Completed Rose nor Vegeta uses Completed Blue in the arc.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:02 pm

I think people miss the point of Vegeta telling Black that Goku's body couldn't be used to the best of it's ability, under Zamas. That means, Zamas could not replicate it's full potential. Therefore, full power Blue could not be used by Zamas. The best he could get out of Goku's body was a weaker level of power.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:52 am

Miracles wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:02 pm
I think people miss the point of Vegeta telling Black that Goku's body couldn't be used to the best of it's ability, under Zamas. That means, Zamas could not replicate it's full potential. Therefore, full power Blue could not be used by Zamas. The best he could get out of Goku's body was a weaker level of power.
Its*

Are we talking Anime here??? Vegeta’s line was pure nonsense.. The fact that Goku Black literally got a powerup right after that, disproves it. Goku Black was constantly spamming Zenkai's and insta-healing himself on the spot. Those are feats that the original Goku has never been shown to be able to do, to that degree. Goku Black’s potential far surpasses even Gohan’s, who far surpasses Goku’s and Vegeta’s. Vegeta’s line was just Vegeta acting all cool and what not. It was 100% WRONG.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:08 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:52 am
Goku Black was constantly spamming Zenkai's and insta-healing himself on the spot. Those are feats that the original Goku has never been shown to be able to do, to that degree.
That's just Toei coming up with some BS to justify a power up, not due to any saiyan logic or a potential-related reason. Goku was never shown to be able to do that, because saiyans don't do that. Not even kaioshin can heal themselves like that.
You could, however, say Goku Black got a plot armor from Toei stronger than Goku ever got.

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