Have the following fighters surpassed SSG Goku from BoG?

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SupremeKai25
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Re: Have the following fighters surpassed SSG Goku from BoG?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed May 05, 2021 4:24 pm

Thani wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 8:27 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:03 am
Yuji wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 5:58 pm

Not really no, but there he specifically states his uncertainty by saying "maybe" (not like we have confirmation either way between who's stronger, so it's not like he's wrong). He said Zamasu was concretely weaker than Trunks.
We have confirmation, Beerus is a moving goal post while Broly is a defeated antagonist, thus logic implies that Beerus > Broly.

And the point is that Goku is still ASSUMING something, even if he doesn't the word "maybe" it's still an assumption, nothing more. That's not concrete/conclusive evidence.
Didn't Goku used the word "probably", as in, as far as he knows, he's pretty sure Broly is the stronger of the two? He didn't seem uncertain in that scene, either.

I honestly dislike this "Moving Goalpost Beerus" thing that is going on. We're now three arcs removed from the Tournament of Power, where our heroes faced a supposedly "GoD+" level opponent, the enemies supposedly only got stronger, and we're still not close enough to Beerus to give him a real chance of defeat? Jesus Christ, Tori/Toyo.
It is what it is, as I don't care about any of these characters I'm not particularly bothered, regardless it is indeed factual that Goku is not omniscient. He can ASSUME that Trunks is stronger than Zamasu, but he cannot CONFIRM that Trunks is stronger than Zamasu.

This is for the manga by the way, in the anime (where power-levels of the antagonists are much higher) Zamasu annihilates Trunks.
Twisting into something hideous... It's the physical embodiment of what he feels within. He is obsessed. Fixated on the contradictions of Gods and mortals. If mortals have capacity for wisdom, why do they so often fail? If Gods see their actions as wicked, why do they tolerate and forgive? How can Gods and mortals seem so different yet so alike? What is the point of it all? Zamasu seeks beauty. Yet look at his body, distorted by hatred and rage. I wonder... Is that really the result that he craved? A broken, misshapen God alone in the vacant cosmos? How fulfilled will he be then?

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Re: Have the following fighters surpassed SSG Goku from BoG?

Post by ZombieVito » Wed May 05, 2021 5:32 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:24 pm
Thani wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 8:27 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:03 am


We have confirmation, Beerus is a moving goal post while Broly is a defeated antagonist, thus logic implies that Beerus > Broly.

And the point is that Goku is still ASSUMING something, even if he doesn't the word "maybe" it's still an assumption, nothing more. That's not concrete/conclusive evidence.
Didn't Goku used the word "probably", as in, as far as he knows, he's pretty sure Broly is the stronger of the two? He didn't seem uncertain in that scene, either.

I honestly dislike this "Moving Goalpost Beerus" thing that is going on. We're now three arcs removed from the Tournament of Power, where our heroes faced a supposedly "GoD+" level opponent, the enemies supposedly only got stronger, and we're still not close enough to Beerus to give him a real chance of defeat? Jesus Christ, Tori/Toyo.
It is what it is, as I don't care about any of these characters I'm not particularly bothered, regardless it is indeed factual that Goku is not omniscient. He can ASSUME that Trunks is stronger than Zamasu, but he cannot CONFIRM that Trunks is stronger than Zamasu.

This is for the manga by the way, in the anime (where power-levels of the antagonists are much higher) Zamasu annihilates Trunks.
Eh no.

Trunks is stronger than both Zamasus.

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Re: Have the following fighters surpassed SSG Goku from BoG?

Post by BagetaSama » Mon May 10, 2021 8:05 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:51 pm
BWri wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:17 pm
RoF:
Final Form Frieza: it's not clear what the hell they were going for but they sure backtracked it. As seen later in the series, no in every media.
Base Vegeta: same as above.

U6 Arc:
Final Form Frost: anime yes - manga no.
SSJ Cabba: anime yes - manga no.
Magetta: anime yes - manga no.

ToP:
Kale: manga yes, anime maybe.
SSJ2 Caulifla: no. The anime had already retconned everything and base Goku is just base Goku.
Kefla: yes.
Ultimate Gohan: yes.

Moro Arc:
#17: he capped at SS3 prior to the Moro arc. Who knows? maybe he's grown much stronger.
#18: I'd say no.
Ultimate Gohan: yes
Piccolo: there's little to go with, one lost fight, probably yes.
Saganbo: yes
Yikes, another person baselessly claiming that everything was retconned and "Base Goku is just Base Goku"

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Re: Have the following fighters surpassed SSG Goku from BoG?

Post by BWri » Mon May 10, 2021 11:12 pm

BagetaSama wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 8:05 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:51 pm
BWri wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:17 pm
RoF:
Final Form Frieza: it's not clear what the hell they were going for but they sure backtracked it. As seen later in the series, no in every media.
Base Vegeta: same as above.

U6 Arc:
Final Form Frost: anime yes - manga no.
SSJ Cabba: anime yes - manga no.
Magetta: anime yes - manga no.

ToP:
Kale: manga yes, anime maybe.
SSJ2 Caulifla: no. The anime had already retconned everything and base Goku is just base Goku.
Kefla: yes.
Ultimate Gohan: yes.

Moro Arc:
#17: he capped at SS3 prior to the Moro arc. Who knows? maybe he's grown much stronger.
#18: I'd say no.
Ultimate Gohan: yes
Piccolo: there's little to go with, one lost fight, probably yes.
Saganbo: yes
Yikes, another person baselessly claiming that everything was retconned and "Base Goku is just Base Goku"
This one confused me for a second. I definitely didn't write what was quoted above. I'm pretty sure it's Koitsukai's quote but the editing went haywire. As far as the anime goes, I have no desire to figure out Goku's strength unless I absolutely need to, to figure out some other character's strength. And Goku's definitely a last resort as a measuring stick, for me at least.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-

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Re: Have the following fighters surpassed SSG Goku from BoG?

Post by Emperor » Sat May 15, 2021 12:41 pm

My opinion -

RoF:
Final Form Frieza: Yes, since he fought Base Goku and was slightly weaker. Base Goku in RoF is superior to BoG SSG Goku. Goku in BoG has the power of God infused into his being and is able to "contend" as an SSJ and in Base destroys Beerus's massive ki attack. And that is pretty much the basis for all my other stuff.

Base Vegeta: Yes since he is comparable to RoF Base Goku.

U6 Arc:
Final Form Frost: Yes since he fought U6 SSJ Goku.
SSJ Cabba: Yes. Base Cabba is probably superior since he is on par with U6 Base Vegeta. (All my homies dislike the entire thing with U6 Saiyans)
Magetta: Yes, he is considerable in strength compared to U6 SSJ Vegeta.

ToP:
Kale: Yes, on par with Caulifla.
SSJ2 Caulifla: Yes, superior to Base Cabba.
Kefla: Yes of course. She could potentially one-shot second UI Goku.
Ultimate Gohan: Yes, if anything comparable to pre-ToP SSJB Goku.

Moro Arc: I'm unsure about the manga to comment.

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Re: Have the following fighters surpassed SSG Goku from BoG?

Post by BWri » Sat May 15, 2021 7:47 pm

Emperor wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 12:41 pm
My opinion -

RoF:
Final Form Frieza: Yes, since he fought Base Goku and was slightly weaker. Base Goku in RoF is superior to BoG SSG Goku. Goku in BoG has the power of God infused into his being and is able to "contend" as an SSJ and in Base destroys Beerus's massive ki attack. And that is pretty much the basis for all my other stuff.

Base Vegeta: Yes since he is comparable to RoF Base Goku.

U6 Arc:
Final Form Frost: Yes since he fought U6 SSJ Goku.
SSJ Cabba: Yes. Base Cabba is probably superior since he is on par with U6 Base Vegeta. (All my homies dislike the entire thing with U6 Saiyans)
Magetta: Yes, he is considerable in strength compared to U6 SSJ Vegeta.

ToP:
Kale: Yes, on par with Caulifla.
SSJ2 Caulifla: Yes, superior to Base Cabba.
Kefla: Yes of course. She could potentially one-shot second UI Goku.
Ultimate Gohan: Yes, if anything comparable to pre-ToP SSJB Goku.

Moro Arc: I'm unsure about the manga to comment.
That's how I see it with the anime. What's crazy is that would make a character like Piccolo around the same level as SSG Goku as early as the U6 arc, if SSJ Goku > FF Frost > 3rd Form Frost >= Base Goku (U6) > Base Goku (RoF) > SSG Goku (BoG). I'm convinced that Piccolo being thrown in the mix is what led to the two base theory. But as far as the anime goes, all the fighters in the U6 tourney were equal to or greater than SSG Goku from BoG. The anime was crazy like that.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-

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