"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Xeogran
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:24 am

Magnificent Ponta wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:57 am
Is saving a few people from out of a whole planet you're actively a party to destroying really "whitewashing"? For someone like Bardock, this is a dust mote in the balance.
We don't know how it went like, and why Bardock decided on saving Granolah in the first place AND whether he continued destroying the planet afterwards anyway (which would be weird, so doubtful)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:50 am

Xeogran wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:24 am
Magnificent Ponta wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:57 am
Is saving a few people from out of a whole planet you're actively a party to destroying really "whitewashing"? For someone like Bardock, this is a dust mote in the balance.
We don't know how it went like, and why Bardock decided on saving Granolah in the first place AND whether he continued destroying the planet afterwards anyway (which would be weird, so doubtful)
I mean, the planet was destroyed. Even if Bardock specifically stopped participating in destroying the planet once he chanced upon Granolah for whatever reason, he was still destroying it and killing all the people up to that point - he's still a guy who wreaked havoc and killed untold numbers of Cerealians, even if he's responsible for saving a few as well. And in Minus (which is presumably chronologically after this mission, since he returns to Planet Vegeta to die in that story), he's shown having a blast kicking some alien's face in as he destroys their planet too, so it's not like Bardock isn't still a guy who participates in the destruction of planets with gusto, even after this. This therefore seems at this point like a small and (in the bigger picture) deeply ambivalent bit of nuance in Bardock's character rather than a "whitewashing"; I'm fine with that. In fact, better than fine; it sounds right, given what we know about him.

You're right that we don't know specifically what Bardock's methods and reasons are, here, though - if his character gets a depiction like 'he systematically refrains from really participating in destruction of planets, he just acts like it, fights a bit for the fun and saves what he can at the end', then yes, that would be a whitewashing. But if it's more like 'he's a Saiyan like others, but with a little more of a humane sense that occasionally moderates his actions and allows him to do things that the common run of Saiyans don't think to do (like in this instance, letting a few survivors remain from a planet)', then it's just basically another way of showing us the things we are already supposed to know about him, albeit in a concrete way that is relevant to this specific story. It should matter to Granolah, but not necessarily to our view of Bardock. We'll have to see, of course.

EDIT: As an alternative, since this arc offers the new idea that Saiyans systematically invading and destroying other planets as "business as usual" was a latter-day development thanks to King Vegeta III and Freeza's clan, it could just be that Bardock doesn't agree with the change and so saves some people from the planets he destroys to spite the powers that be. That would move closer to the 'whitewash', but would still be within the bounds of what we know about his character and what Saiyans can be like without becoming particularly 'Goku-ish' (Vegeta implicitly judges the move negatively as well). Then it would be something of a 'greywash', I guess.
Last edited by Magnificent Ponta on Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:57 am

I guess we will have to wait until the FOLLOWING release to have the Bardock question answered. Now we should focus on the present until the upcoming chapter is released
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:13 am

Berserker1921 wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:31 am
Actually that might be a typo. I could have sworn they said that it was 50 years ago. Isn’t that how the arc starts? I could be wrong.
It was said fifty years ago, indeed. And it'd better if we stick to this one (even though it causes a problem, thanks to Vegeta saying he was a kid when he shouldn't even be born or should be in the incubator), rather than the "forty years", which causes even bigger problems (Bardock would have saved them in AGE 741, two years after Vegeta's destruction).

I'd like to know why Toyotaro isn't being consistent with this.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:09 pm

I wonder if, maybe, Bardock just saved a few people here and there with potential, to fuel something into them hoping they would eventually defeat Freeza. Or he probably did so just cause he didn’t want to blindly follow Freeza’s orders.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mr Baggins » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:12 pm

As someone who has, from the start, consistently argued in favor of the "canon" Bardock over the old TV special's depiction of him, the notion of this character being some heroic savior for Granolah and Monaito is still nonsense on the surface. It's one thing for Bardock to care for his family or succumb to parental instincts, it's quite another to have him protect random people he has no connection to.

That said, there's no point in preemptively judging what the manga's doing without context. Maybe it's not as bad as it sounds. The coming chapter (unsurprisingly, given Toyotaro's pacing of late) doesn't even really delve into this stuff and just leaves the plot-moving content on a cliffhanger, as usual.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jack Bz » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:21 pm

This really worries me because it looks like they're going to use Bardock as a way to convince Granolah that the saiyans aren't all bad :sick: (as if that's a better argument then the fact that Son Goku is the one that defeated Freeza in the first place, which hasn't come up somehow)

If it's not going to be an altruistic portrayal then I don't know what Monaito hopes to achieve by bringing it up. Would it matter to Granolah if Bardock saved his life even though he still helped otherwise exterminate his race? I will reserve judgement and hope that they make it work, but it doesn't look good to me so far.
Last edited by Jack Bz on Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:22 pm

emperior wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:09 pm
I wonder if, maybe, Bardock just saved a few people here and there with potential, to fuel something into them hoping they would eventually defeat Freeza. Or he probably did so just cause he didn’t want to blindly follow Freeza’s orders.
Keikaku master Bardock and in the end it was a "random" guy from the future who got rid of Freeza :lol:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:59 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:34 pm
DiscountDabi wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:29 pm
Something is definetly up with Monaito. Him suddently revealing to Granolah that Bardock saved him, and also him saying this:
I wanna see why he didn't tell Granolah about this. Its certainly interesting.
Maybe Monaito is aware that Bardock actually saved Granola's life somehow? And to repay Bardock at the end of the arc Granola will somehow save Gokuu in a way? That'd be a nice little wrap-around.
Probably made a deal with Bardock to be spared. I don't think Bardock saved Granolah for virtuous reasons. Maybe Monaito sold out the Cerealeans to Freeza.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Young-Jah » Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:16 pm

So what do you think for chapter 77 next month October, do you think Granolah will listen for a change, or will he still be a dick and kill Monite out of no sympathy, and it will bite him back for when he gets to Frieza.
Plus, do you think Goku will know about his father?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:38 pm

Trying to reason with someone has never accomplished anything, see Movie 1, where Broly, who could've become an interesting character, just inwardly told Goku to "fuck off" and proceeded to keep screaming like an idiot until the very end.

Should Granola just stop his pointless fight after what the Namekuseijin told? Yes. Can we expect that to happen? No. The disappointment would hit softer that way.

I don't know if he will, but he definitely should know his father at this point. I "can" (?) understand if they don't want Goku to ever meet Bardock, but he should at least know who he was (and I'd also argue Whis should be around to show him actual images).

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:02 pm

Young-Jah wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:16 pm
So what do you think for chapter 77 next month October, do you think Granolah will listen for a change, or will he still be a dick and kill Monite out of no sympathy, and it will bite him back for when he gets to Frieza.
Plus, do you think Goku will know about his father?
There's no way Granolah will intentionally kill Monaito. I guess it could eventually happen by accident, but Granolah definitely cares for him.

While I expect Goku will know nothing about his father, it's possible Vegeta told him something. They trained together in the RoSaT for 3 years before the Universe 6 tournament. While Goku and Vegeta aren't exactly social butterflies or buddy-buddy, it's something that could've naturally come up.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by redon » Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:27 am

3 pictures from Dragon Ball Super chapter 76 :wink:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:34 am

redon wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:27 am
3 pictures from Dragon Ball Super chapter 76 :wink:
That mom is going to make me act up.....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:48 am

I do hope the next chapter starts right with a full flashback, showing everything they can show in details. I want to see and know exactly what happened, how it happened.

That "forty years ago", though... Timeline be damned. :|

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BWri » Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:56 am

Xeogran wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:22 pm
emperior wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:09 pm
I wonder if, maybe, Bardock just saved a few people here and there with potential, to fuel something into them hoping they would eventually defeat Freeza. Or he probably did so just cause he didn’t want to blindly follow Freeza’s orders.
Keikaku master Bardock and in the end it was a "random" guy from the future who got rid of Freeza :lol:
At least that random guy was the heir apparent ruler of his kingdom/nation. Though the story very much treats it as random guy kills Frieza since Trunks couldn't give 2 f**** about the space lizard.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbmm » Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:06 pm

redon wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:27 am
3 pictures from Dragon Ball Super chapter 76 :wink:
Could you post some more pictures please? :D

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:29 pm

I love how everyone is down bad for Granolah's Mom :lolno:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:45 pm

Image

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PurestEvil » Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:53 pm

Oh dear Lord above people are already simping for the new girl.
I will give it two weeks before someone posts a sensual drawing of Gran's mum on the Sexy Fan Art Thread...
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