"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:30 pm

We knew Bardock was going to have some kind of involvement from the very beginning because we saw his great ape form, so no one should be surprised by that.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:33 pm

Yes, but then some people started saying Bardock could have been just an "easter egg", and considering the time it took until we get here, I was starting to believe that. Don't forget, we saw Oozaru Bardock in the beginning of the year, we're near the end of 2021, so... :lol:

I'm glad Bardock will play/does have an active role here, it's high time he is used for other context not entirely related to Goku.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:41 pm

I was expecting Granolah to recognize Goku and think he was Bardock. I wonder if Goku will seek out information about his father now? It would be interesting to have him meet Goku in some form.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PurestEvil » Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:41 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:51 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:22 pm
Bardock ... pff desperate fanservice .. Is this DB Heroes? :roll:
Worse, it's Dragon Ball Super.

I too can't even hear/read the word "Bardock", I think I'm allergic to it. Once I hear it, I feel "fanservice"! Must be a disease. :sick: Somebody please find a cure and help us!
Do you still have that Bardock GIF as a part of your PFP cycle? Maybe getting rid of it will help. :idea:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:56 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:51 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:22 pm
Bardock ... pff desperate fanservice .. Is this DB Heroes? :roll:
Worse, it's Dragon Ball Super.

I too can't even hear/read the word "Bardock", I think I'm allergic to it. Once I hear it, I feel "fanservice"! Must be a disease. :sick: Somebody please find a cure and help us!
I don't know if ... what I said bothers you but it is something obvious and true ... DB Heroes is made only to sell cards for something you have bardock ssj4, Metal golden cooler, Black SSJ3 Rose and other nonsense

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:00 pm

Mr Baggins wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:34 pm
kemuri07 wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:11 pm
I liked that, in the original series and the OVA, Bardock wasn't this important figure but a grunt with enough self-awareness to try to start a revolution.
Bardock was a fighting prodigy in the TV special with an ability that no other Saiyan had. I'd argue it's actually Toei's version of the character that completely diminishes the themes of Goku's physical growth in the manga.

The Bardock in Minus/Broly was actually a grunt, but he was a grunt that could think a little critically and happened to care about his family. This current development might push that altruistic streak a bit too far depending on what the next chapter does, but there's nothing particularly "special" about Toriyama's Bardock.

The biggest concern, for me, is that it's probably going to redeem Granolah and feel like a convenient cop-out.
Bardock wasn't a fighting prodigy. Hell, when he goes up against an actual elite fighter (Dodoria) he nearly gets killed instantly. And the ability he's given to see into the future does nothing to change his character or the story or is even indicative of Bardock's abilities. Bardock's visions into the future only serve to emphasise the dramatic irony of his and Saiyan's fate: they are doomed to die horribly. The point of Bardock being given the ability to see into the future is to psychologically torture him. It isn't because he's special, it's done to taunt him because he deserves to be tormented like this, as he is a piece of shit.

Toriyama (and what also seems to be Toyotaro's) Bardock falls right into the trap of being the generic, tritely written anti-hero with a soft streak, completely missing the point of Goku's entire character: an antithesis of traditional Saiyan culture. Goku's entire journey as a martial artist defies what Bardock, and the Saiyan in general, represent as a whole.

Having Bardock being anything less than a no-name, evil space pirate who is dismissive of his own son because of a number from a scouter serves to not only unnecessarily defang Bardock and undercut the wonderful dramatic irony of Goku physical and mental growth in the manga, but also brutally kneecaps several underlying themes in some of the arcs of the original story.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by goku the krump dancer » Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:18 pm

I don't wanna help spin this into a Bardock hate thread but I personally always found him to be insanely overrated. Yeah his initial special was a fun watch and helped make the bout with Freeza more impactful but I didnt think he did anything in particular to make me go "BWAAALLL BADDACK SO BAHDAZZ!!!1!!". For me he served his purpose, a nobody who tried stop Freeza but failed, he just so happened to be Goku's father.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by pepd » Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:42 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:00 pm
Toriyama (and what also seems to be Toyotaro's) Bardock falls right into the trap of being the generic, tritely written anti-hero with a soft streak, completely missing the point of Goku's entire character: an antithesis of traditional Saiyan culture. Goku's entire journey as a martial artist defies what Bardock, and the Saiyan in general, represent as a whole.
Gokuu's contrast with the average saiyajin's cruelty (not whole culture because being a fighter and other traits are defining traits of Gokuu since before they make him a saiyajin) is far from being "Goku's entire character", and is still present even if canon Burdack was what some perceive or want to make it based on a specific (and in-universe acknowledged as unusual for the character) discrepancy with Toei's version.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:52 pm

The storyline took a kinda bleak turn in this chapter, but I dig it. Vegeta came off as depressed and aimless in the earlier chapters. Now he's shown he's willing to die alongside Granola. I like that Vegeta lashing out against Goku is given due drama and seriousness, rather than played off as a jarring gag, with the usual "b-b-but what about Bulma, Trunks etc" appeals to Vegeta's compassion failing for once. Vegeta seems to cut Goku off before he even gets a chance to say anything like that, as they have nothing to protect this time. Better late than never, I suppose. Rather than a petty childish want, there's a clearer sense that Vegeta needs this fight to himself whether he wins or dies.

The panelling was really incredible this month as well, plenty of emotion wrung out of the characters. In contrast to the Moro arc which used gratuitous gore and stabbings simply for the shock value and "the REAL DEEBEEZEE" nostalgia, there's definitely more of a "war is hell" vibe to the violence here to sell the pettiness of the main conflict. Seeing Vegeta all bloodied up and shot to pieces... It's appropriately reminiscent of the Saiyan arc in that regard.

As for characters that are not Vegeta... Seeing Goku as a voice of reason is definitely nice. After a few chapters of coming off as fairly unsympathetic, Granola showing even more concern for the Sugurian cities than the Cerealian ruins was an excellent humanising moment. While the pacing hasn't been great for the arc overall, I love the passion that's been coming out of Toyotaro. I get the feeling this is a story he really wants to tell.

Lastly, the spiky-haired elephant in the room, Bardock. I think it was fairly obvious from day one that Bardock was never gonna be a mere cameo when Toyotaro shows so much favouritism towards him. Like many, I'm iffy about this development, best case scenario is it's a classic "I save one would-be victim occasionally to prove I have a conscience before slaughtering millions" a la Margaret the Slitheen. So long as it isn't Dr. Bardock's Master Keikaku, i.e. him raising an army for revenge against Freeza on the Saiyans' behalf or something ridiculous, as has been speculated.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:09 pm

Chapter was alright in a vacuum. Unfortunately it had the effect of deflating my interest in the arc.

Why must we explore Bardock? A dead character, who was truly never relevant and will not appear ever again(I hope :silent: ).

If a Saiyan showing a smidge of humanity is necessary to turn Granolah over, why not the two standing in front of him? I bet Granolah would be impressed if he heard what Goku's been doing for the last few decades.

We have alive and underdeveloped characters, focus on them! Connect them to the storylines instead!
It's really disappointing; I hope this "fan service" gets done quick.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mr Baggins » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:30 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:52 pm
That's what makes the whole concept of Goku being the antithesis to his brutish, uncaring, bloodthirsty race work and what makes Goku an even more nuanced character than he appears to be. It's what makes the underlying theme of classism in the Saiyan arc so potent and relevant. It's what makes Goku accepting his heritage in the Freeza arc after Vegeta is killed by Freeza such a powerful and poignant character moment. It's what makes Goku entire journey as a martial artist on Earth so unique, given the circumstances.
Sorry, I don't buy this.

The Saiyan arc's themes are introduced, upheld and maintained through Goku's dynamic with Vegeta, not his connection to Bardock. The TV special didn't yet exist; Bardock's name/actions aren't even mentioned until the Freeza arc. Goku doesn't remember his father, wasn't influenced by him in any way and has no relationship with him, which is why Bardock as a character (caring father or not) holds literally zero bearing on Goku's growth as a martial artist or his contrast with Saiyan culture. That's all emphasized through his conflict with the elite Saiyan prince.

Retroactively or postdictively inserting newly introduced characters into arcs and themes where their name doesn't crop up might ruin those themes if it contradicts them (which isn't the case with Minus as their relationship is non-existent to begin with) but isn't at all what makes them work; the story itself does that job. It already did that job during the arc, not after the arc.
Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:00 pm
Bardock wasn't a fighting prodigy.
This isn't true either. The special in its original language clarifies Bardock's battle power to be around 10,000 and specifically touches on him being a remarkable warrior on at least three different ocassions.

This all completely undercuts the Saiyan arc's themes by making Goku special as a result. Those messages of classism and hard work? All that dialogue about Goku's training allowing him to surpass an elite? None of it actually means anything when the protagonist is already genetically predetermined to be the cream of the crop.

Bardock is only truly a low-class grunt in Minus, with his parental care later made a crucial part of the underlying theme in Broly. That's fine. Making Goku's journey boil down to his genetics isn't, and actively hurts what the story is trying to convey.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:04 pm

Hopefully Bardock doesn't get revived, but I would like the next chapter to have a long flashback of what happened. Don't even mind if it takes the entire chapter. Also hope the fight against Granolah is over for now and we move to more interesting stuff.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:19 pm

UpFromTheSkies wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:41 pm
I wonder if Goku will seek out information about his father now? It would be interesting to have him meet Goku in some form.
He has to! Hopefully that happens in the next very chapter! :D
PurestEvil wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:41 pm
Do you still have that Bardock GIF as a part of your PFP cycle? Maybe getting rid of it will help. :idea:
No, though I am using Warrior in Black avatar (who is Bardock in disguised). That avatar is making me sick, oh Dende, I'm gonna die, send help. :sick:
Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:56 pm
it is something obvious and true ...
No, it's just your mere opinion. It reflects nothing on reality.
Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:56 pm
DB Heroes is made only to sell cards for something you have bardock ssj4, Metal golden cooler, Black SSJ3 Rose and other nonsense
Dragon Ball Super is made only to sell merchandising [for something you have] Golden Freeza, recolored Super Saiyans, Super Saiyan Rage, God of Destruction form and other nonsense.
LightBing wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:09 pm
Why must we explore Bardock? A dead character, who was truly never relevant and will not appear ever again(I hope :silent: ).
Why mustn't we? Bardock killed a lot of people, so it is only natural it would reverberate onto his son eventually. Well, the only thing "reverberating" now is the exact opposite of that, but still... Bardock's actions must have some effect on Goku, for better or worse. You can't not have that.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:56 pm

Mr Baggins wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:30 pm
Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:52 pm
That's what makes the whole concept of Goku being the antithesis to his brutish, uncaring, bloodthirsty race work and what makes Goku an even more nuanced character than he appears to be. It's what makes the underlying theme of classism in the Saiyan arc so potent and relevant. It's what makes Goku accepting his heritage in the Freeza arc after Vegeta is killed by Freeza such a powerful and poignant character moment. It's what makes Goku entire journey as a martial artist on Earth so unique, given the circumstances.
Sorry, I don't buy this.

The Saiyan arc's themes are introduced, upheld and maintained through Goku's dynamic with Vegeta, not his connection to Bardock. The TV special didn't yet exist; Bardock's name/actions aren't even mentioned until the Freeza arc. Goku doesn't remember his father, wasn't influenced by him in any way and has no relationship with him, which is why Bardock as a character (caring father or not) holds literally zero bearing on Goku's growth as a martial artist or his contrast with Saiyan culture. That's all emphasized through his conflict with the elite Saiyan prince.

Retroactively or postdictively inserting newly introduced characters into arcs and themes where their name doesn't crop up might ruin those themes if it contradicts them (which isn't the case with Minus as their relationship is non-existent to begin with) but isn't at all what makes them work; the story itself does that job. It already did that job during the arc, not after the arc.
Lord Beerus wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:00 pm
Bardock wasn't a fighting prodigy.
This isn't true either. The special in its original language clarifies Bardock's battle power to be around 10,000 and specifically touches on him being a remarkable warrior on at least three different ocassions.

This all completely undercuts the Saiyan arc's themes by making Goku special as a result. Those messages of classism and hard work? All that dialogue about Goku's training allowing him to surpass an elite? None of it actually means anything when the protagonist is already genetically predetermined to be the cream of the crop.

Bardock is only truly a low-class grunt in Minus, with his parental care later made a crucial part of the underlying theme in Broly. That's fine. Making Goku's journey boil down to his genetics isn't, and actively hurts what the story is trying to convey.
Bardock having a battle power of 10,000 is a legitimate flaw in the narrative of the special, since it goes against the idea that he’s a completely unremarkable low level Saiyan, but the special still makes a point about how he’s seen as a nobody who Freeza and his men don’t even bother referring to by name. Bardock isn’t painted as some famous Saiyan hero. He’s just some thug who tries to stop Freeza, but utterly fails to do so, and his only impact on the story is that he helped make Goku.

In comparison, Toriyama’s Bardock is directly responsible for Goku getting sent to Earth. Sure, he doesn’t seem to be a particularly strong warrior, but he’s directly responsible for all of the adventures that Goku would end up having. Instead of Goku being a reject who was sent off to do some grunt work, thus escaping his planet’s destruction by pure chance, him getting sent to Earth was now fate or something.

Also, having Bardock send Goku to Earth for his own safety is far too reminiscent of Jor-El and Superman. What was even the point of that retcon? The only thing it accomplished was validating all those years of flimsy fan comparisons between Goku and Superman.
Last edited by WittyUsername on Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:59 pm

I will say in Toei-Bardock's defence, wasn't he established to have only become as strong as he did thanks to constant near-death zenkai boosts? AFAIK, he wasn't born naturally gifted like Vegeta or Broly, though he does show prodigal combat strategy. In some sense, Bardock embodies Goku's principles as a low-class warrior who rose up to nearly elite levels through his own hard work, only kept down because of the rigid class structure and his love for his job. To whatever degree Bardock's power was earned, Kakarot didn't inherit it anyway as Bardock deemed his son's power level worthless. Raditz perhaps inherited more natural power, but grew complacent in the loftier ranks and refused to self-improve beyond that. To paraphrase Bob Dylan, Goku was born slow but later became fast. Genetics can be a lottery after all, there's no guarantee a son will be as strong as his father.

Toriyama-Bardock's characterisation as a lowly unremarkable grunt only above average in the common sense department feels more appropriate, but Toei-Bardock's great power wasn't a dealbreaker either. Also, thanks to Super Movie 1, Toriyama-Bardock actually has a feat above his original counterpart by briefly holding off Freeza's Death Ball!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mr Baggins » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:11 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:56 pm
Bardock having a battle power of 10,000 is a legitimate flaw in the narrative of the special, since it goes against the idea that he’s a completely unremarkable low level Saiyan, but the special still makes a point about how he’s seen as a nobody who Freeza and his men don’t even bother referring to by name.
I guess I should have clarified, but the TV special's dialogue and portrayal of Bardock (when his fighting ability is brought up) makes him out to be remarkable by Saiyan standards and yet unremarkable by Freeza's, which applies equally to Saiyan arc Vegeta. It's still the crux of the argument when the discussion is specifically about the Saiyan arc's themes.
WittyUsername wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:56 pm
Also, having Bardock send Goku to Earth for his own safety is far too reminiscent of Jor-El and Superman. What was even the point of that retcon?
I don't disagree, to be clear. While I think DBS: Broly did an excellent job of giving Bardock's new "Jor-El" characterization some greater narrative context by tying it into the film's broader themes, it's admittedly not great when you're looking at Minus in isolation.

I also have my own issues with Minus, particularly in how it retcons the irony of Goku being sent to destroy all life on the planet, but that's neither here nor there.
Last edited by Mr Baggins on Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:20 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:19 pm
No, it's just your mere opinion. It reflects nothing on reality.
it's reality ... it is literally a card game .. played only in japan
Grimlock wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:19 pm
Dragon Ball Super is made only to sell merchandising [for something you have] Golden Freeza, recolored Super Saiyans, Super Saiyan Rage, God of Destruction form and other nonsense.
transformations created by the author ... same author who decided to continue the series ... and those created by toei are authorized by toriyama

same guides that prove it while the author does not even know that it is dragon ball heroes ...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:52 pm

pepd wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:42 pm
Gokuu's contrast with the average saiyajin's cruelty (not whole culture because being a fighter and other traits are defining traits of Gokuu since before they make him a saiyajin) is far from being "Goku's entire character", and is still present even if canon Burdack was what some perceive or want to make it based on a specific (and in-universe acknowledged as unusual for the character) discrepancy with Toei's version.
Perhaps saying it's Goku's entire character was a bit of an exaggeration. But a big part of what makes Goku's journey so unique is ultimately rooted in how much he diametrically opposes what Bardock (and the Saiyans in general) represents. Turning Bardock into a more heroic character kills that
Mr Baggins wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:30 pm
Sorry, I don't buy this.

The Saiyan arc's themes are introduced, upheld and maintained through Goku's dynamic with Vegeta, not his connection to Bardock. The TV special didn't yet exist; Bardock's name/actions aren't even mentioned until the Freeza arc. Goku doesn't remember his father, wasn't influenced by him in any way and has no relationship with him, which is why Bardock as a character (caring father or not) holds literally zero bearing on Goku's growth as a martial artist or his contrast with Saiyan culture. That's all emphasized through his conflict with the elite Saiyan prince.

Retroactively or postdictively inserting newly introduced characters into arcs and themes where their name doesn't crop up might ruin those themes if it contradicts them (which isn't the case here as their relationship is non-existent to begin with) but isn't at all what makes them work; the story itself does that job. It already did that job during the arc, not after the arc.
Bardock doesn't need to be integral to the plot itself for his personality and actions to have the importance in Goku's journey to be emphasised. What Bardock represents is where the importance lies. The whole point of Bardock being an ineffective nobody to the grand scheme of the plot is the point of his character. Bardock is meant to be a fleeting memory of an age that is long gone, and that is emphasised with the brief flashback in the Freeza arc when Bardock is only mentioned out of convenience.

Bardock views his son with contempt because of his low battle power at birth and his last fleeting moments realises that his son may have a great role in life than he expected. That's where the dramatic irony lies, and that's what elevates EVERYTHING about Goku's journey and gives it that unique twist on the typical "I want to become stronger" narrative you see in most shonen manga and anime. Goku defied everything Bardock and the society and culture he was a part of represented.
Mr Baggins wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:30 pm
This isn't true either. The special in its original language clarifies Bardock's battle power to be around 10,000 and specifically touches on him being a remarkable warrior on at least three different ocassions.

This all completely undercuts the Saiyan arc's themes by making Goku special as a result. Those messages of classism and hard work? All that dialogue about Goku's training allowing him to surpass an elite? None of it actually means anything when the protagonist is already genetically predetermined to be the cream of the crop.

Bardock is only truly a low-class grunt in Minus, with his parental care later made a crucial part of the underlying theme in Broly. That's fine. Making Goku's journey boil down to his genetics isn't, and actively hurts what the story is trying to convey.
No. Bardock is never mentioned as a remarkable warrior. You're badly misremembering what was stated in the TV special. It's when Bardock and his team take over Planet Kanassa a month earlier than expected that in conversation with Dodoria and Freeza, Zarbon mentions that there is something remarkable about the Saiyans in general. Specifically due to how, "Individually, there’s nothing special about them, but when they team up, they demonstrate incredible power."

I do think that Bardock having a battle power near 10,000 is pretty dumb but the story heavily implies he's been getting the near-death power boost. Plus, the TV special never makes a big deal out of it and Bardock is still referred to as a "some nameless lower-class Saiyan warrior". In fact, the only praise Bardock get in the entire TV special is this one line:

"He’s quite a guy."

Hell, if there is any Saiyan who receive considerable hype and praise in that TV special it's Vegeta.

By and large, defanging Goku's parentage by making Bardock a more "heroic" character rather than generic, nameless, nobody Saiyan who thought as little of Goku from the moment he was born no less like the rest of the Saiyans and Freeza armies who sent Goku away as a forgotten afterthought because he was considered expendable trash, so much of the thematic punch of Goku's characterization for a good chunk of the entire story is watered down quite badly. Goku's entire "Even the lowest class born can outdo an elite with hard work" speech to Vegeta -- which one of the most thematical powerful and defining moments, not just Goku's character, but for the series as a whole -- is thoroughly weakened in its nuance and its meaning if Goku isn't just some generic nobody amongst his people whom even his own father had thrown away and written off.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:56 pm

I really liked Vegeta embracing death with a smirk on his face, basically saying "fuck it, we had a helluvarun", Goku's fight felt needed after so much Vegeta for the third month in a row, his UI Blue seemed fucking on point considering how beaten he was and his enemy. It reminded me, visually, of his fight vs Zamasu.
Learning how to break Granny's move is also awesome on his part, I never liked very much how he overcame Moro's technique, it seemed like another side to "hitting them really hard", but this one is pretty good. He manages to strengthen his vitals on demand, reducing the effectiveness of the attack, like the greatest martial artist that he is. I'd like to see FP Goku vs Granola after this revelation.

I really get the feeling these guys are going the extra mile all the time, beyond their limits, they are tired, injured but they are still going, in rags. It's greatly portrayed by Toyo, and it is also beautiful having the fight in non-wasteland areas. Is amazing how much the guy has grown.

I enjoyed very much Granny's cry for wanting this to be over once and for all, willing to give his life to see it through. Although, by now he doesn't really seem that fond to life to begin with. And his gloves getting destroyed was great, too bad he had another pair of gloves underneath. He also returned to his one-eyed face, wonder if that'll play a role in the future or next chapter, with the Heata's wish and all.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:18 pm

The best part about Toei Bardock in relation to Goku is that he didn't give a crap about his son. In spite of that, Goku would one day rise up and avenge Bardock indirectly. It makes for pretty good irony, but Bardock learns about it at the end of the story, and the silver lining somewhat undermines that irony. On the other hand, DBS:Broly Bardock has no such assurance. He sent Kakarot to Earth because he decided to do something good for once, but he has no idea if his son will even make it past the Freeza Force.
Mr Baggins wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:11 pm
I also have my own issues with Minus, particularly in how it retcons the irony of Goku being sent to destroy all life on the planet, but that's neither here nor there.
I mean...it wasn't part of Freeza's scheme, but that was probably still a part of the equation. If Goku didn't hit his head and get raised by Gohan, the Oozaru would've definitely made a mess of things.

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When Monaito said "I've uprooted his life once more", I thought he was just referring to the conquest of Cereal by the Saiyans. Now...I'm not so sure.
Last edited by batistabus on Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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