Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

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Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:17 pm

With all of the time and all of the wishes he was able to make, why didn't he ever consider coming up with any kind of contingency plan for Zeno? Even if he couldn't affect Zeno directly with a wish, he could have at least tried something like 'I wish Zeno will never find out about our plan', or he could have asked Zuno on how to avoid dealing with him.

It's possible that he just didn't know that Zeno existed (Shin didn't either, at first), but other than that it seems like an oversight.
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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by Thani » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:20 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:17 pm
With all of the time and all of the wishes he was able to make, why didn't he ever consider coming up with any kind of contingency plan for Zeno? Even if he couldn't affect Zeno directly with a wish, he could have at least tried something like 'I wish Zeno will never find out about our plan', or he could have asked Zuno on how to avoid dealing with him.

It's possible that he just didn't know that Zeno existed (Shin didn't either, at first), but other than that it seems like an oversight.
No, Zamasu knew of Zen'Oh. Why he didn't account for him, though, is anyone's guess. Perhaps his plan in case the king got warned of his actions were "skedaddle to another timeline".

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:19 am

He did. He had a contingency ready in case Zeno got involved, he would simply flee to another planet and remain in hiding (it wouldn't be hard since he had already purged every other planet in the Cosmos) until Zeno was gone.

It is also important to note that, putting biased headcanon aside, what the story shows us is that Zeno would have never, EVER, gotten involved if it wasn't for Present Goku summoning him with the Zeno Button given to him by Present Zeno.

But Zamasu could have never anticipated that Future Trunks would ask for the help of a Present Goku who befriended Present Zeno and was given the Zeno Button by him. Nor could he expect that Future Bulma had completed the fuel needed to activate the Time machine, which allowed Trunks to escape safely back to the past.

Zamasu's plan was perfect and flawless; all of the above can be attributed simply to plot armour for the protagonists, i.e. circumstances outside of Zamasu's control.

Zamasu accounted for everything he could scientifically account for. He scientifically could not account for this:
But Zamasu could have never anticipated that Future Trunks would ask for the help of a Present Goku who befriended Present Zeno and was given the Zeno Button by him
So could Zamasu have made a better wish to deal with Zeno? Yes.

But it's easy to be a know-it-all in hindsight :roll:

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by Skar » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:13 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:19 am
He did. He had a contingency ready in case Zeno got involved, he would simply flee to another planet and remain in hiding (it wouldn't be hard since he had already purged every other planet in the Cosmos) until Zeno was gone.
Where was this contingency plan ever stated? I'm not sure how it would work in the long run. If he was known for destroying six universes over a minor annoyance, would Zeno really be patient enough to chase Zamasu from one planet to another for all eternity?
It is also important to note that, putting biased headcanon aside, what the story shows us is that Zeno would have never, EVER, gotten involved if it wasn't for Present Goku summoning him with the Zeno Button given to him by Present Zeno.
That wouldn't be biased headcanon because the previous arc had Zeno show up at the end of the tournament. He would definitely notice eventually that everyone in the multiverse including the gods are all dead.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:45 pm

Skar wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:13 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:19 am
He did. He had a contingency ready in case Zeno got involved, he would simply flee to another planet and remain in hiding (it wouldn't be hard since he had already purged every other planet in the Cosmos) until Zeno was gone.
Where was this contingency plan ever stated? I'm not sure how it would work in the long run. If he was known for destroying six universes over a minor annoyance, would Zeno really be patient enough to chase Zamasu from one planet to another for all eternity?
There's no contingency for an almighty character known for overreacting. The multiverse would disappear, Zamasu included, in that case.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by capsulecorp » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:48 pm

It's important to remember that Zamasu was basically insane. He didn't account for Zeno because he wasn't a coherent, right-thinking individual. Put simply, his aims don't make sense, why should we expect his means to?

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:58 pm

Why are you two saying he didn't account for Zeno? He literally accounts for Zeno here and states his contingency:

Image

That Zamasu accounted for Zeno and prepared a backup plan in case he got involved is an undeniable fact.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:15 pm

It's a flawed contingency plan, that's what we're saying. You can run, hide, but you can't survive erasure, remote or in person.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by Skar » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:18 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:58 pm
Why are you two saying he didn't account for Zeno? He literally accounts for Zeno here and states his contingency
I guess he did have a "plan" but I'm still not sure how this is supposed to work. This same arc revealed that Zeno erased 1/3rd of the multiverse before so why wouldn't he just destroy that entire universe if Zamasu escaped to a different planet? It would be even easier for him to erase that universe since it's mostly devoid of life aside from the guy running away from him.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:08 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:15 pm
It's a flawed contingency plan, that's what we're saying. You can run, hide, but you can't survive erasure, remote or in person.
If he chose to erase him.

Zamasu is a master of deception who was capable of completely manipulating Gowasu into thinking he no longer harboured dark thoughts; Gowasu being the oldest and wisest of the Supreme Kais. While Zeno is a mere child. Zamasu would easily be able to manipulate him under the right circumstances (i.e. without Goku and co. around to snitch on him).

It's not even sure Zeno would erase everything if he wasn't confronted with a Multiversal Infinite threat (he might simply erase the Earth) and he wouldn't know Zamasu was the culprit of all that destruction.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by Skar » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:40 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:08 pm
Zamasu is a master of deception who was capable of completely manipulating Gowasu into thinking he no longer harboured dark thoughts; Gowasu being the oldest and wisest of the Supreme Kais. While Zeno is a mere child. Zamasu would easily be able to manipulate him under the right circumstances (i.e. without Goku and co. around to snitch on him)
I think you're being unfair as to what qualifies as "headcanon" because you're giving your own for different outcomes. First it was that Zeno wouldn't find out then it was that Zamasu could keep escaping to a different planet in case Zeno did find out and went looking for him. Now it's that Zamasu is a master of deception and could manipulate Zeno in case he had nowhere to run.

None of this accounts for Zeno simply deciding to erase that entire universe. This wouldn't be headcanon because Whis flatout said Zeno could potentially do it if he learned about Goku Black and that he destroyed six universes before.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by capsulecorp » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:47 pm

None of this accounts for Zeno simply deciding to erase that entire universe. This wouldn't be headcanon because Whis flatout said Zeno could potentially do it if he learned about Goku Black and that he destroyed six universes before.
Not to mention that, even without Goku, Zeno is still surrounded by his attendants and the Grand Priest and so on. The idea that a mad, delusional Kai could somehow isolate him from the most powerful beings in the universe seems a little "sus".

I'd also add that Gowasu, on the other hand, seems like a dummy and tricking him isn't all that impressive :D

Ultimately the answer to this seems to be "he didn't" because, how could he? His plan was flawed and demented from the start, the insane machinations of a sad and deranged being that completely lost sight of his purpose. He's a beaver chewing trees to build a dam in a desert.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:49 pm

What is not up for debate is that Zamasu, in his genius, accounted for Zeno.

Anyone with the power of hindsight can make the argument that Zamasu perhaps didn't prepare enough, but it is factual and shown in the Story that Zamasu indeed accounted for Zeno in his plan.

So OP you started this thread from the false premise, did you not remember that episode from the manga? :eh:

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by Thani » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:52 pm

Not sure if the translation was correct - I really assumed he meant "timeline" altogether, because moving to another planet would mean jackshit if Zen'Oh wanted you gone and couldn't find you.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by capsulecorp » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:56 pm

Thani wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:52 pm
Not sure if the translation was correct - I really assumed he meant "timeline" altogether, because moving to another planet would mean jackshit if Zen'Oh wanted you gone and couldn't find you.
Well, when they talk about moving to another planet they're talking about hiding from the Lord of Lords, the Grand Kai. The story doesn't reveal if they had a plan for the possibility that Zeno got involved but, given that he DID get involved and Zamasu just got erased, I'm guessing it wouldn't have been a very good plan anyway!

We do know Whis' wand can find beings no matter where they are in the universe, though its possible that doesn't apply to gods... anything more would just be speculation though.
Last edited by capsulecorp on Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:57 pm

Thani wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:52 pm
Not sure if the translation was correct - I really assumed he meant "timeline" altogether, because moving to another planet would mean jackshit if Zen'Oh wanted you gone and couldn't find you.
Canonically Zeno erased the entire timeline once he was confronted with a Multiversal threat (Infinite Zamasu), if such threat was never presented, he might not erase the entire Multiverse and simply one planet or galaxy.

With Kai Kai Zamasu can travel pretty much anywhere he wants in the Cosmos, he has a whole Cosmos to hide from Zeno. I don't think going to another Timeline would be required although he did have that box of Time Ring which allowed him to travel anywhere he wanted in the Time-space Continuum, as well as the Time Machine he took from the Supreme Kai of U12.

Then when the situation went back to normal (because Zeno is a kid and would pretty much forget about it if he didn't find the culprit), Zamasu would be able to continue with his honest work.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by capsulecorp » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:01 pm

honest work.
There's NOTHING honest about it... its simply reprehensible...

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by Skar » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:10 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:57 pm
Canonically Zeno erased the entire timeline once he was confronted with a Multiversal threat (Infinite Zamasu), if such threat was never presented, he might not erase the entire Multiverse and simply one planet or galaxy.
Canonically he also erased six universes before so why would he suddenly choose to only erase a planet or galaxy in an empty universe? I think it makes more sense what others were saying that Zamasu was insane and didn't account for Zeno because this plan doesn't hold up. There's a Zeno in every timeline so he's going to be constantly running away until one of the Zenos decides to erase that whole timeline.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by capsulecorp » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:12 pm

Canonically he also erased six universes before so why would he suddenly choose to only erase a planet or galaxy in an empty universe? I think it makes more sense what others were saying that Zamasu was insane and didn't account for Zeno because this plan doesn't hold up. There's a Zeno in every timeline so he's going to be constantly running away until one of the Zenos decides to erase that whole timeline.
We KNOW Zamasu is insane. Destroying all mortals to create a "perfect universe" is insane by definition. There's no room for debate on this point and, furthermore, attempting to debate this point would throw SERIOUS suspicion on one's own state of mind, or at least moral integrity!

Questions about what Zeno would or wouldn't have done.... are ultimately pointless, since he's a fictional character and will do what the author, the REAL lord of everything, tells him to do. We do know that he has seemingly destroyed better universes for lesser crimes though, so I see no reason to assume he wouldn't have done the same to U7, or that timeline of U7, whether or not he could find the culprit.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu account for Zeno?

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:37 pm

So, you basically have to apply headcanon to make his contingency plan not a flawed one... and even then, the variables are tha: variables, so even with headcanon you might end up with a flawed contingency plan.

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