Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

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Koitsukai
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:22 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:24 pm
I was reading chapter 74 and something occurred me. Vegeta said he was getting stronger while he was fighting Granolah as SSBE. Could he be using ultra ego that time, like Goku does with ultra instinct with his other forms? He took quite a bunch of damage in that chapter.
It could be possible, he should've been completely outclassed in that form, yet Granny couldn't put him down for good.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Berserker1921 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:17 am

Koitsukai wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:22 pm
Hugo Boss wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:24 pm
I was reading chapter 74 and something occurred me. Vegeta said he was getting stronger while he was fighting Granolah as SSBE. Could he be using ultra ego that time, like Goku does with ultra instinct with his other forms? He took quite a bunch of damage in that chapter.
It could be possible, he should've been completely outclassed in that form, yet Granny couldn't put him down for good.
I think he was just basically unlocking it. Unlike UI, which Goku Suddenly unlocked. Vegeta was gaining UE through the battle slowly. Sort of like the opposite of a transformation. Needed damage to unlock it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:28 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:24 pm
I was reading chapter 74 and something occurred me. Vegeta said he was getting stronger while he was fighting Granolah as SSBE. Could he be using ultra ego that time, like Goku does with ultra instinct with his other forms? He took quite a bunch of damage in that chapter.
I don't think it has anything to do with Ultra Ego, it's the typical Saiyan privilege spiel. It's to reinforce the narrative that Saiyans are always getting stronger in contrast to Granolah who didn't earn his power and is static in his throne.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Shintoki » Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:46 am

Miracles wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:49 pm
Beerus was never "retcon'd [where something established was changed later]." Beerus came in Battle of Gods stronger than everything in the mortal universe from fusion to Yamcha. He was setup as Goku/Vegeta's benchmark from day one. As the story progressed, the narrative never confirmed any opponent was stronger than Beerus. Not even a Goku and Vegeta fusion, even tho the merge reached blue tier of power.

Now this latest arc just cements Beerus hierarchy among the food chain again. With Toyotaro's recent interview, enforcing that fact further, is just icing on the cake.
You know, i think it all comes down ultimately to how people choose to interpret what toriyama meant by ''right now''. For those who took it as toriyama low-key saying that the duo won't surpass beerus until a further notice, such developments wouldn't be surprising.
Toyotarō:… I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?
Toriyama:
Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.


But for people otherwise who have tied ''the now'' to a certain arc, or when the in-verse statements start disfavoring beerus as such signal. I can see they may be irked by it. Tho to be fair, the ''powerscaling'' stopped making sense sinc the USS tournament when goku using kaioken 20x in top of SSB should have logically made goku stronger, but that's what one gets for believing the narrator/red herrings ig.

It is beerus moving his goalpost since the start of super to some, and retcons to others. Interesting
PurestEvil wrote:
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You could also, y'know, become a real buddhist
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Isn't this technically worshipping the Monkey King?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:50 pm

LightBing wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:28 am
Hugo Boss wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:24 pm
I was reading chapter 74 and something occurred me. Vegeta said he was getting stronger while he was fighting Granolah as SSBE. Could he be using ultra ego that time, like Goku does with ultra instinct with his other forms? He took quite a bunch of damage in that chapter.
I don't think it has anything to do with Ultra Ego, it's the typical Saiyan privilege spiel. It's to reinforce the narrative that Saiyans are always getting stronger in contrast to Granolah who didn't earn his power and is static in his throne.
At first this was my initial though, but the way he evolved during that fight seemed different from his previous experiences. He didn’t get stronger in the fight against Moro, at least not as straightforwardly as he made it seem like in his fight against Granolah.

In another hand, Granolah also implied he could also get stronger in his fight against Vegeta, and he proved that by unlocking his second red eye.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:42 pm

Shintoki wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:46 am
Miracles wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:49 pm
Beerus was never "retcon'd [where something established was changed later]." Beerus came in Battle of Gods stronger than everything in the mortal universe from fusion to Yamcha. He was setup as Goku/Vegeta's benchmark from day one. As the story progressed, the narrative never confirmed any opponent was stronger than Beerus. Not even a Goku and Vegeta fusion, even tho the merge reached blue tier of power.

Now this latest arc just cements Beerus hierarchy among the food chain again. With Toyotaro's recent interview, enforcing that fact further, is just icing on the cake.
You know, i think it all comes down ultimately to how people choose to interpret what toriyama meant by ''right now''. For those who took it as toriyama low-key saying that the duo won't surpass beerus until a further notice, such developments wouldn't be surprising.
Toyotarō:… I get the feeling I’ve just heard something amazing (laughs). Lord Beerus and Whis turn up in Dragon Ball Super, and have become an unsurpassable wall for Goku and the gang. What do the two of them mean to you?
Toriyama:
Well… First off, right now I don’t have any plans for Goku and Vegeta to surpass Beerus and Whis.


But for people otherwise who have tied ''the now'' to a certain arc, or when the in-verse statements start disfavoring beerus as such signal. I can see they may be irked by it. Tho to be fair, the ''powerscaling'' stopped making sense sinc the USS tournament when goku using kaioken 20x in top of SSB should have logically made goku stronger, but that's what one gets for believing the narrator/red herrings ig.

It is beerus moving his goalpost since the start of super to some, and retcons to others. Interesting
That's understandable. My problem is, if people want to interpret things their way, they shouldn't try to apply absolutes that were never given by the story. For example, many claim: "Beerus is a moving goal post" or "Beerus has been retconned." So to them, the story has unequivocally placed Beerus in a tier of power without a doubt. Then moved Beerus from his cemented and established place of strength to another fixed standard.

We know by reading the story, none of this is true.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:38 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:24 pm
I was reading chapter 74 and something occurred me. Vegeta said he was getting stronger while he was fighting Granolah as SSBE. Could he be using ultra ego that time, like Goku does with ultra instinct with his other forms? He took quite a bunch of damage in that chapter.
Nah, I think that's just confirming that Saiyans do get stronger just by battling. Toriyama said that a while ago, but that ability was mostly showcased in the anime up until now. It makes me wonder if there were other instances where the Saiyans got stronger mid fighting in the manga... I know Gohan rose up to Kefla's level just by fighting her according to Piccolo. And Goku probably did, too if we take Kuririn's word on Gohan not being stronger than him.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:15 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:38 pm
Hugo Boss wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:24 pm
I was reading chapter 74 and something occurred me. Vegeta said he was getting stronger while he was fighting Granolah as SSBE. Could he be using ultra ego that time, like Goku does with ultra instinct with his other forms? He took quite a bunch of damage in that chapter.
Nah, I think that's just confirming that Saiyans do get stronger just by battling. Toriyama said that a while ago, but that ability was mostly showcased in the anime up until now. It makes me wonder if there were other instances where the Saiyans got stronger mid fighting in the manga... I know Gohan rose up to Kefla's level just by fighting her according to Piccolo. And Goku probably did, too if we take Kuririn's word on Gohan not being stronger than him.
I guess Goku's power up against Black was permanent in episode 61.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Marz » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:22 pm

After the new chapter, I feel like Goku, Granola and Vegeta are all around the same level. Powered up Granola doesn't look much stronger after unlocking the new eye. He was probably worn out to some degree, but Vegeta was even more exhausted (since Granola thought he was already at his limit), and even then, Granola couldn't bring him down completely and the fight would end in a draw because Granola would use the remaining life force he had on that last attack and it would kill both.

And Goku after understanding how Granola's attacks work, learned to avoid critical damage to his vital points, even in his Blue transformation. With all of them in a fresh state, it looks like they're all in the same ballpark. Maybe Goku would have problems because of his stamina with MUI, but at his peak they all seem on the same level. Tbh It kind of looks like Toyo didn't want to declare a clear winner or put someone decisively at the top

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:19 am

I disagree. If Goku and Vegeta weren’t tag fighting Granolah, there wouldn’t be a draw. He was fighting on his own, while Goku and Vegeta were taking turns. It went almost exactly as Elec suggested.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:48 am

I agree and disagree.
Yeah, it's clear who's the strongest in the universe, and even Goku mentions that Granny's been fighting on his own all this time (although he used a clone vs Goku, so how tired could he've been after that remote gaming). He defeated Ultra Ego twice and is still standing, which probably is the main good thing about using a clone in the first place.

However, the implication this month is that Goku learned how to bypass Granola's most effective attack and that he would need some firepower higher than UI Blue to defeat him, which he definitely has.
Also, Vegeta with a different strategy -less self indulgent- probably would've won, and a recovered Vegeta, with the experience gained after this fight could also win, if he uses UE right.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Marz » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:32 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:19 am
I disagree. If Goku and Vegeta weren’t tag fighting Granolah, there wouldn’t be a draw. He was fighting on his own, while Goku and Vegeta were taking turns. It went almost exactly as Elec suggested.
If you consider it from the beginning of the fight, then sure Granola would have already won as both Goku and Vegeta needed to intervene at different moments during the fight, but other factors played a role in this case. I am talking about the current moment. Goku learned how to avoid critical hits to his vitals and an exhausted Vegeta managed to push a draw and force 2 eyed Granola to use the rest of his remaining life to kill them both. Idk, the impression I got after this chapter is that if they were all fresh it might be different, as 2 eyed Granola didn't seem to be a substantial power up (strength-wise), Vegeta was already tired when Granola awakened this power due to have purposely taken a lot of damage before and Goku wasn't in his best shape here either.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:55 am

Any achievements Goku and Vegeta accomplish during this fight are attributed to Granolah being occupied with someone else. Goku only got a chance of testing his new strategy because he had time to recover. Vegeta only got a second wind at Ultra Ego because he rested. Of course Goku and Vegeta got better at fighting Granolah, but if you put them at 100% stamina one-vs-one right now, Granolah still has a much larger advantage, as Goku and Vegeta aren’t benefiting mutually. I guess it will become clear when they choose which one will eat the senzu bean.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:37 pm

No way is Goku and Vegeta around Granolah's level. Goku stated that his body was going to give out [again] even tho Granolah has been fighting both he and Vegeta. Turn after turn.

Granolah is number 1.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Krillin1994 » Sat Sep 25, 2021 12:11 am

Do we think Granolah was serious that his attack he was charging was going to use up all his remaining life? - seemed to be that way.

Would this be him using that remaining 3 year lifespan to power it.

or would it be just him pushing his current level of strength to the brink and thus dying from it.

If the former, how strong do you think that attack could be? strong enough to worry any Gods of Destruction?


Also to post above, the Heeters were surprised Granolah was still standing and fighting was still ongoing, so Zuno probably told them that Goku & Vegeta would win together. But ye I mean Granolah is #1 strength wise, but he's not the #1 warrior. I think Vegeta is right he was getting to his limit.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:26 am

In case anyone was wondering, the Dragon Ball official site confirms Granolah is the strongest warrior in U7 by the time he unlocks his second red eye.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:00 am

BWri wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:08 pm
Trunks overdeveloped SSJ2 works because there is precedent for maximizing forms beyond their initial potential. We've seen it with both SSJ and SSB with their "Mastered" variants which yield several times more power than the initial versions.
I might be misremembering things, but the point of Super Saiyan Grade 4 (also known as Super Saiyan Full Power) was to get rid of the drawbacks Super Saiyan caused. Not to "yield more power than before".
BWri wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:08 pm
In the manga, Trunks' growth in comparison to Goku's makes a lot more sense due to the manga omitting the Saiyan Beyond God base forms.
If anything, the manga is the medium that most acknowledge it. Though it seems people are "picky" when it comes to what consider what in the manga. Some consider those Cell Juniors thing (also from bonus pages), but not this... So who knows.
BWri wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:08 pm
Due to Trunks' own experiences, I can definitely see him training even harder than Goku and Vegeta, due to him being the literal savior of his future. At the very least, he'd train as hard as them.
Can you elaborate more on that? Going into some details if possible. Because, again, Majin Buu saga did not play out the same. In fact, everything Trunks managed to do during these events was unlock Super Saiyan 2. But how was his training? Goku and Vegeta get strong after every fight, but Trunks only fought against Dabura (doubt he gained any substantial power against Pui Pui and Yakon).

Trunks did not undergo Old Kaioshin's ritual. Trunks did not fight against Majin Buu. Trunks did not fight against Beerus. Trunks did not fight against Golden Freeza. Trunks did not train under Whis. Trunks did not participate in a tournament and fought against Universe 6 members.

With all of that out of the way, how exactly was Trunks' own experiences enough to put him on par with a Super Saiyan 3 Goku? What kind of training did he perform?
BWri wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:08 pm
Perhaps his training with Supreme Kai and his own ingenuity led him to gain more strength in SSJ2 than Goku along with Goku losing interest in the form for SSJ3, SSG, and all the SSB variants, not to mention Omen and UI. Goku has his plate full with forms while Trunks only needs to focus on one.
What a contrived thing to come up with (which, I must admit, is exactly what I would expect Dragon Ball Super to come up with...).
Marz wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:54 pm
It's not a Super Saiyan 2 related power up, people just treat it like that because it's more convenient and easier.
And because that's exactly what it is, as far as we can tell for now. Trunks transforms into Super Saiyan 2, and then he activates this power-up thing. If it's something else, we are gonna need an explanation/guidebook. While we don't have that, we work with what we got.
Marz wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:54 pm
And even if it was something like that, it wouldn't be new in this series because we have Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Blue as examples (the power difference between SS Goku during both Freeza and Cell sagas is stratospheric, same for SS Blue before and after the fight against Zamasu, and all of this was achieved merely by mastering the transformation). Users pushing the power of their transformations to the limit has happened before.
Maybe. But we can't ignore that base Goku from Cell saga is obviously stronger than base Goku from Freeza saga, and that affects the power one will have when transformed. So that's one reason why Super Saiyan Goku from Cell saga is stratospherically stronger than Super Saiyan Goku from Freeza saga.
Marz wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:54 pm
Anyway his power isn't far fetched either, because Trunks just trained his ass off for over a decade, and in the year before his return to the past he's had numerous near-death experiences facing Black on top of it.
Yes, but we don't know his methods for training. But certainly they weren't the same as Goku's and Vegeta's. Also, that would be the case if the manga had established that Trunks struggled with Goku Black for one year, as the anime did it. We don't know how long had been since Goku Black's first appearance until Trunks decided to go to the past in the manga.
Marz wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:54 pm
In the manga Goku and Vegeta don't have super strong base forms so Trunks gains are much more credible (and yet, he ended up not even matching SS3 Goku's power, just got closer)
Trust me, they have. Their base forms aren't the same as they were in any of previous sagas, they are always getting stronger. Always.

The gap between Goku and Vegeta's base form powers in comparison to Trunks base form power should be astronomical. That's why he shouldn't be able to reach Super Saiyan 3, unless this power-up provides even more power than I imagine.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Marz » Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:51 am

Grimlock wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:00 am
And because that's exactly what it is, as far as we can tell for now. Trunks transforms into Super Saiyan 2, and then he activates this power-up thing. If it's something else, we are gonna need an explanation/guidebook. While we don't have that, we work with what we got.
Trunks merely powered up to match Goku's power. There's no mention of him specifically enhancing his Super Saiyan 2 form to get some kind of special power beyond what the transformation offers (although this has happened before in the series, and we've never seen the extent to which SS2 can be mastered or improved anyway because the attention quickly turned to other forms that appeared later, so it's not far fetched either if it was the case)
Grimlock wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:00 am
Maybe. But we can't ignore that base Goku from Cell saga is obviously stronger than base Goku from Freeza saga, and that affects the power one will have when transformed. So that's one reason why Super Saiyan Goku from Cell saga is stratospherically stronger than Super Saiyan Goku from Freeza saga.
His base power certainly played a big role, but Goku and Gohan only reached such a level (which Vegeta and Trunks never did with SS grade 2 and 3, variations with higher energy output) after mastering Super Saiyan.
Grimlock wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:00 am
Yes, but we don't know his methods for training. But certainly they weren't the same as Goku's and Vegeta's. Also, that would be the case if the manga had established that Trunks struggled with Goku Black for one year, as the anime did it. We don't know how long had been since Goku Black's first appearance until Trunks decided to go to the past in the manga.
Trunks says he trained every day as if his life was on the line (which was not the case for Goku and Vegeta for the most part, even though they also trained daily). He didn't benefit from training with a mentor like Whis, but he carried a bigger burden and because of that he had to train a lot more (in addition to having more potential due to his being a half Saiyan).

On top of that, even if it wasn't specified how long Trunks had been facing Black, it was shown that Black was purposely using Trunks and keeping him alive so he could benefit from near death experiences and release more power from Goku's body (which consequently also left Trunks in these situations, increasing his power). So he was training harder AND constantly facing near death battles.

Grimlock wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:00 am
Trust me, they have. Their base forms aren't the same as they were in any of previous sagas, they are always getting stronger. Always.

The gap between Goku and Vegeta's base form powers in comparison to Trunks base form power should be astronomical. That's why he shouldn't be able to reach Super Saiyan 3, unless this power-up provides even more power than I imagine.
They're stronger compared to the DBZ, but it's never been shown exactly how much they've improved their base forms, we only have hints. In the anime base Goku and Vegeta are stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks at the very least, we don't know if that's the case for the manga, it's was never shown if it was such a big difference

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:33 am

I always assumed Trunks was using, or had experienced the same kind of boost, probably after fighting Black so much and losing all the time, his father did when Beerus slapped Bulma. Geets' boost was permanent, seeing how his SS2 was still above SS3 in that same arc.

Besides, we know too little about SS2 to think if a certain power up is possible, not possible or an asspull, nobody has used that form consistently(aside of GT). I mean, it's the mastery of an existing form, it's not a new unexplained form like SS Rage. He's also a hybrid like Gohan, his potential should also be quite high, making it less convoluted.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by BWri » Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:39 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:00 am
I might be misremembering things, but the point of Super Saiyan Grade 4 (also known as Super Saiyan Full Power) was to get rid of the drawbacks Super Saiyan caused. Not to "yield more power than before".
Your memory's fine. That was the point of the mastered/full power/grade 4 form, but the effect was a much stronger SSJ form, otherwise Trunks and Vegeta would have a stamina problem, not a lacking power problem as we witness during the Cell Games. Despite training more than both Goku and Gohan, they lacked the strength/power/speed to fight on Cell's level. Whatever drawbacks Goku and Gohan eliminated led to a massive power boost for their SSJ forms. Trunks could have done the same with SSJ2
If anything, the manga is the medium that most acknowledge it. Though it seems people are "picky" when it comes to what consider what in the manga.
The link doesn't work.
Can you elaborate more on that? Going into some details if possible. Because, again, Majin Buu saga did not play out the same.
Well, a couple of things. On its face, yeah, Trunks had less struggles than Goku and Vegeta which should lead to him being weaker, and this seems apparent if he's fighting somewhat on par with someone like Dabura. But honestly, there are far too many unknown variables here. First, we know that even small changes to the timestream lead to massive differences, even when it comes to power differences. Look at #17 in Super and look at him in the Future Trunks era. Its like night and day, power and personality-wise. So we don't know how strong Dabura of the future even is. I couldn't blame you if you thought he was weaker. Logically, he probably should be ... but there's those unknown variables. We're talking about a whole world of difference, not just Trunks changing things a little bit by killing Frieza. There's too much we can't quantify to get a good read on Dabura's power, too much about his future life we aren't privy to. For all we know he could be as strong as Majin Buu, Super Buu, or Kid Buu. Hell, even after he got hit with some SSJ2 blows, he was still good to fight, unlike Cell. And he thought he still had the fight won before Kaioshin interfered. I would say that's typical villain cockiness, which Dabura also displayed against Buu, but Kaioshin was also concerned enough to cheat for Trunks as Dabura prepared another attack.

And from what we know of Future Trunks, he would not slack off. I believe the manga or anime confirms that even but I don't remember for sure.
Trunks did not fight against Beerus. Trunks did not fight against Golden Freeza. Trunks did not train under Whis.
As far as the manga goes, these things did not further the mortal forms of Goku or Vegeta until relatively recently with UI.
Trunks did not participate in a tournament and fought against Universe 6 members.
They didn't gain much of anything from that tournament. Goku got SSBKK in the anime but absolutely nothing was gained in the manga.
With all of that out of the way, how exactly was Trunks' own experiences enough to put him on par with a Super Saiyan 3 Goku? What kind of training did he perform?
We're not provided much information here either, but I assume he kept up his tough training regiment from before with the intent of gaining strength. He was pretty much neck in neck with Vegeta during the Cell arc. Future Bulma could have made him a gravity chamber to train in as well (not sure if Super ever showed or addressed that) so his training intensity could have even been the same as Vegeta's. I'm not sure if the Dabura fight happens prior to, during, or after the present day version of the Buu arc, but if prior to, then there's a chance that Trunks and Vegeta unlocked SSJ2 around the same time with Trunks getting it through a traumatic awakening (like Gohan) and Vegeta getting it through pure training. If Trunks got it after, then it does prove that he wasn't quite at Goku or Vegeta's level. Regardless, once the god forms come into play, SSJ2 is Trunks strongest form and the only one he needs to focus on while the others keep moving on to new shit.

It's also likely that Trunks trained with Kaioshin longer than Gohan did (unless there's something I missed). So even if he didn't get the Elder Kai power up, he still increased a lot based on the experience and having training partners. The Z-sword training alone was a big enough boost for Gohan that it impressed Goku and Trunks would've gotten that boost too before he unlocked SSJ2.
BWri wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:08 pm
Perhaps his training with Supreme Kai and his own ingenuity led him to gain more strength in SSJ2 than Goku along with Goku losing interest in the form for SSJ3, SSG, and all the SSB variants, not to mention Omen and UI. Goku has his plate full with forms while Trunks only needs to focus on one.
What a contrived thing to come up with (which, I must admit, is exactly what I would expect Dragon Ball Super to come up with...).
I don't see it as contrived, I see it as realistic even by Dragon Ball's standards. Once you stop practicing something, you no longer advance that skill.
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