"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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mute_proxy
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:14 am

I hope the Heeters changed visually during the years and weren't dread wearing pirate guys looking same for decades.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:15 am

mute_proxy wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:14 am I hope the Heeters changed visually during the years and weren't dread wearing pirate guys looking same for decades.
During chapter 69 we got a glimpse of their (younger) visuals at the time of the massacre. Not sure how they will be portrayed in this chapter, probably something similar

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:25 pm

OLKv3 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:23 am
Miracles wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 2:40 pm Unlike Granolah, Moro is pure evil. So he wouldn't and shouldn't have inner clashing with the protag's.

Granolah feels his cause is righteous enough to sacrifice his life for. Which strikes at Vegeta's personal struggle of letting go of his past sins.
Granolah is a better written Zamasu than Zamasu himself
false ... zamasu is a villain

granolah no

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:22 pm

TheMikado wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:49 am
TKA wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:16 am
Jinto wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:33 am Granola seems to only be interested in his mother and not his entire race.
A billion is a statistic. 1 person is a tragedy.

It's hard to wrap your head around a billion, million, thousand, or hundred strangers dying. But when someone close dies, it feels like the end of the world.

That's just people.
Yeah but maybe I missed it? But why didn’t Monaito just tell Granola about his mom and the saiyans from the get go. Seems like an important detail if you know someone is bloodthirsty and out for revenge for the wrong reasons/people.
I can’t answer questions about a chapter that hasn’t been released yet. I sure didn’t read any of the spoilers people posted because those are often full of holes or have things out of context. It makes granular discussion of them pointless.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by anubisj » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:19 pm

So what would be a plausible explanation for Granolah not using the DBs to resurrect his mother, or the entire Cereal race, yet? I can think, off the top of my head, of these ones:

- The Cereal DBs do not have such power (kind of invalid for 3 reasons: 1- Granolah could perfectly well use his newfound powers to focus on finding another set of DBs 2- Even if he didn't know about other sets of DBs, he didn't even consider it a possibility when he wished for his powers, so it wasn't even a matter of the DBs being powerful enough, 3- They were probably powerful enough to at least revive his mother, seeing as they bestowed him unparalleled power, resurrecting someone should be a piece of cake).

- He didn't think of it (a bit implausible, but then again, they could go for the idea that he was so hell bent on revenge that he didn't notice the obvious, and so condemned his people, or whatever).

-He's waiting to kill all potential enemies (Frieza and Saiyans, and now Heeters) before resurrecting his kind.

-He didn't actually cared about his mother/race as much as one would think (the less likely option, as he cared for them enough to wish them avenged, at the cost of his own life).

Thoughts? Do you guys think it is just a plothole? Or will it get addressed eventually?

(I'm not following the manga closely, so I'm not sure if this has already been addressed, I just think it is a major plot point that should be adressed).

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by omaro34 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:30 pm

I'm asking this question from an in universe perspective, the Heeters wanted to take over Freeza's army correct? Freeza first died on Earth years ago along with his father by Future Trunks, so why didn't the Heeters try to take over Freeza's empire during the many years he was dead?
Last edited by omaro34 on Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:30 pm

anubisj wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:19 pm - He didn't think of it (a bit implausible, but then again, they could go for the idea that he was so hell bent on revenge that he didn't notice the obvious, and so condemned his people, or whatever).
Definitely this one. When he learned about wish-granting balls, his only thoughts were to to kill those who ruined his life.
Too bad he was targetting the wrong guys ever since.
omaro34 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:30 pm I'm asking this question from an in universe perspective, the Heeters wanted to take over Freeza's army correct? Freeza first died on Earth years ago along with his father by Future Trunks, so why didn't the Heeters try to take over Freeza's empire during the many years he was dead?
We have no idea and they better address this.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:45 pm

anubisj wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:19 pm So what would be a plausible explanation for Granolah not using the DBs to resurrect his mother, or the entire Cereal race, yet? I can think, off the top of my head, of these ones:

- The Cereal DBs do not have such power (kind of invalid for 3 reasons: 1- Granolah could perfectly well use his newfound powers to focus on finding another set of DBs 2- Even if he didn't know about other sets of DBs, he didn't even consider it a possibility when he wished for his powers, so it wasn't even a matter of the DBs being powerful enough, 3- They were probably powerful enough to at least revive his mother, seeing as they bestowed him unparalleled power, resurrecting someone should be a piece of cake).

- He didn't think of it (a bit implausible, but then again, they could go for the idea that he was so hell bent on revenge that he didn't notice the obvious, and so condemned his people, or whatever).

-He's waiting to kill all potential enemies (Frieza and Saiyans, and now Heeters) before resurrecting his kind.

-He didn't actually cared about his mother/race as much as one would think (the less likely option, as he cared for them enough to wish them avenged, at the cost of his own life).

Thoughts? Do you guys think it is just a plothole? Or will it get addressed eventually?

(I'm not following the manga closely, so I'm not sure if this has already been addressed, I just think it is a major plot point that should be adressed).
Granolah already discussed this with Monaito in chapter 69. They didn't resurrect the Cerelians and Namekians because the Sugurians had made the planet their home and Monaito didn't want to kick them out. Monaito could have used the Dragon Balls for revenge and then brought his people back to life, but he's an extreme pacifist, very kind and noble, like some kind of a Buddha.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jack Bz » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:46 pm

anubisj wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:19 pm So what would be a plausible explanation for Granolah not using the DBs to resurrect his mother, or the entire Cereal race, yet?
In the technical sense: every one of Granolah's race would have had their souls purified and reincarnated decades ago. It would be impossible without the super dragon balls. Freeza was a special case because he somehow stubbornly refused to repent.

As for why Granolah didn't try? It's a character flaw. He was out looking for revenge, and selfishly wanted it at all costs. If it was about justice, he would have been sad knowing that Freeza was revived, or that there are saiyans who are still around. He wants revenge for revenge's sake.

Edit: also what UpFromTheSkies said...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:49 pm

omaro34 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:30 pm I'm asking this question from an in universe perspective, the Heeters wanted to take over Freeza's army correct? Freeza first died on Earth years ago along with his father by Future Trunks, so why didn't the Heeters try to take over Freeza's empire during the many years he was dead?
Freeza's army fell apart after he was defeated, only a small fraction remained, it was nothing worth taking over.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by omaro34 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:53 pm

UpFromTheSkies wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:49 pm
omaro34 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:30 pm I'm asking this question from an in universe perspective, the Heeters wanted to take over Freeza's army correct? Freeza first died on Earth years ago along with his father by Future Trunks, so why didn't the Heeters try to take over Freeza's empire during the many years he was dead?
Freeza's army fell apart after he was defeated, only a small fraction remained, it was nothing worth taking over.
I get that but the larger point is that there wasn't a definitive ruler, and it was up for grabs. They are a cunning group, so I would have assumed in universe that they would have started their own empire of sorts.

Anyway, we will find out hopefully.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:00 pm

omaro34 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:53 pm
UpFromTheSkies wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:49 pm
omaro34 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:30 pm I'm asking this question from an in universe perspective, the Heeters wanted to take over Freeza's army correct? Freeza first died on Earth years ago along with his father by Future Trunks, so why didn't the Heeters try to take over Freeza's empire during the many years he was dead?
Freeza's army fell apart after he was defeated, only a small fraction remained, it was nothing worth taking over.
I get that but the larger point is that there wasn't a definitive ruler, and it was up for grabs. They are a cunning group, so I would have assumed in universe that they would have started their own empire of sorts.

Anyway, we will find out hopefully.
It was just a handful of grunts left, not much to grab. The ginyu force, and all of Freeza's strongest fighters were killed on Namek. The strongest that remained were Abo and Cado.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:03 pm

omaro34 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:53 pm
UpFromTheSkies wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:49 pm
omaro34 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:30 pm I'm asking this question from an in universe perspective, the Heeters wanted to take over Freeza's army correct? Freeza first died on Earth years ago along with his father by Future Trunks, so why didn't the Heeters try to take over Freeza's empire during the many years he was dead?
Freeza's army fell apart after he was defeated, only a small fraction remained, it was nothing worth taking over.
I get that but the larger point is that there wasn't a definitive ruler, and it was up for grabs. They are a cunning group, so I would have assumed in universe that they would have started their own empire of sorts.

Anyway, we will find out hopefully.
Its possible they tried to and almost succeeded up until Frieza's revival.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jinto » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:17 pm

They succeeded, they were the top of the food chain until Freezer returned.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marz » Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:11 pm

Jinto wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:33 am I saw a much more detailed summary in french :
-Bardock participate in the genocide of the planet but spare Granola out of "caprice" after a "flashback within a flashback".
-Vegeta says Goku inherited Bardock's intelligence not kindness.

Why are we even talking about kindness ? The guy knowingly killed billion of people in the span of a night!

I'm more disappointed with Monaito easily shrugging off the genocide and Granola seems to only be interested in his mother and not his entire race.
A few pages have already been leaked and it looks like Bardock actually says he spared Granola, Monaito and Muesli out of caprice (probably after the flashbck with Gine), and tells them to try to survive. Not sure if this changes much tho as he went out of his way to ensure their safety later.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:23 pm

Bardock said he saved them on a whim, but the flashback shows us that it was more than a whim. Granolah and his mother reminded him of his own family and he felt empathy, but he's supposed to be a ruthless Saiyan so he couldn't admit it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by goku the krump dancer » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:06 am

Man, I just can not bring myself to care about Bardock AT ALL.. I mean he’s cool enough I guess but in either iteration of the character I never saw him as some Uber bad ass like so many fans seem to. Ah well, as long as this chapter pushes the story forward I’m game.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:08 am

goku the krump dancer wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:06 am Ah well, as long as this chapter pushes the story forward I’m game.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:49 am

goku the krump dancer wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:06 am Man, I just can not bring myself to care about Bardock AT ALL.. I mean he’s cool enough I guess but in either iteration of the character I never saw him as some Uber bad ass like so many fans seem to. Ah well, as long as this chapter pushes the story forward I’m game.
I’m looking forward to the eventual “Father of Bardock/Gine” where we learn Goku is actually descended from true saiyan royalty and Vegeta’s family are actually deviants who ascended to the throne after attempting a coup, killed all the smart/kind saiyans and caused the Saiyan ship to crash land on planet Plant.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:34 pm

anubisj wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:19 pm So what would be a plausible explanation for Granolah not using the DBs to resurrect his mother, or the entire Cereal race, yet?
He's spent 40+ years without her, thinking only about getting revenge. That ship has sailed, brother. It's also just more interesting characterization, and more true to human nature. Our most enduring stories are about characters losing sight of what they initially wanted because life is so dynamic.
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