SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

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SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:49 pm

There is a question that I have got to ask in regards to the unmastered forms of Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, Ascended Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Blue: Evolution, and Super Saiyan 4 and that question is this...

How are the unmastered forms of SSG, SSB, ASSB, and SSB:E compared to the unmastered form of SS4 in terms of an overall power boost? As I honestly think that the respective power boosts from the unmastered forms of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue are in fact weaker than when compared to the power boost from the unmastered form of Super Saiyan 4.

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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by Aim » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:23 pm

Steven Bloodriver wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:49 pm There is a question that I have got to ask in regards to the unmastered forms of Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, Ascended Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Blue: Evolution, and Super Saiyan 4 and that question is this...

How are the unmastered forms of SSG, SSB, ASSB, and SSB:E compared to the unmastered form of SS4 in terms of an overall power boost? As I honestly think that the respective power boosts from the unmastered forms of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue are in fact weaker than when compared to the power boost from the unmastered form of Super Saiyan 4.
Not too sure, I know one thing for sure, and that’s that SSGSS: E is a gross ugly form that shouldn’t exist.

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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:51 pm

For its respective series (GT), SSJ4 is meant to be the absolute pinnacle of Saiyan transformations. Whereas with the God forms in Super, it's a continual climb. Since Super and GT are pretty incongruous with one another, I'll just say that I feel like the jump to SSJ4 from the earlier forms is meant to be a more drastic transformation than the God forms are in Super.

Probably the closest thing in Super to SSJ4 (in terms of being meant to represent the pinnacle of Saiyan power) is Ultra Instinct Sign (even though it's not a Saiyan transformation).

EDIT: Whether or not SSG, etc. or SSJ4 is stronger than the other, I have no idea.
Last edited by Demon Prince Piccolo on Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by Thani » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:02 pm

If we compare them directly... SSG made BoG Goku considerably stronger than a theoretical BoG Vegito (without SSG), since it allowed him to fight Beerus when before he thought even fusion wouldn't cut it. We also know that a fusion's base power is on par, if not greater, than it's fusees full power. So without SSG, this theoretical base Vegito would be on par to stronger than SS3 Goku. Which means that SSG Goku is stronger than this version of Vegito in SS3.

Seems overall better than SS4 as far as power ups goes. Goku apparently only surpassed the likes of Z Vegito with SS4, and his base was already apparently as strong as his Z self's SS3. So Goku had to be extremely strong, plus using a new transformation, to surpass Baby who supposedly surpassed Super Vegito.

Overall, to me, it feels that God is just a stronger transformation. Hell, as far as chronology goes, it's essentially Super Saiyan 5, since it debuted after Super Saiyan 4. If GT Goku can remain competitive against Super Goku is because he's that much stronger in equivalent forms.

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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:25 pm

In my opinion, since there is nothing we can use to compare them in their respective plots, I just go by Bandai wafer stickers, which have SS4 and SSGSS more or less on equal foot.

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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by BWri » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:44 pm

With acronyms like that, I'm just waiting for SSBB:GUN.
Steven Bloodriver wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:49 pm
How are the unmastered forms of SSG, SSB, ASSB, and SSB:E compared to the unmastered form of SS4 in terms of an overall power boost? As I honestly think that the respective power boosts from the unmastered forms of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue are in fact weaker than when compared to the power boost from the unmastered form of Super Saiyan 4.
For me, it depends on the opponents. While Super--in general--is fairly inconsistent with power scaling, I find Beerus to be a way bigger level up from Buu than both Baby Vegeta and Super Android 17. So, I have to rank god forms higher by proxy.

Though if we're just talking about aura and mystique, SSJ4 just feels like the real deal Holyfield. It actually comes across more godlike in the fights. Just look at how Goku finished off Ice Shenron here: https://youtu.be/JwKQKf6of7Q?t=79 It's absolutely brutal and overpowering and its backed up by his stature. He absolutely towers over his opponent in many cases.
Aim wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:23 pm Not too sure, I know one thing for sure, and that’s that SSGSS: E is a gross ugly form that shouldn’t exist.
Agreed. Burn that glittery mess to hell.
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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by Mr Baggins » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:53 pm

Outside of GT, Super Saiyan 4 is a fluid benchmark. It's always exactly as strong as the license holders want it to be. According to recent games and merchandise, it's (supposedly) on par with Super Saiyan Blue.

But as far as mainline story implications go, I'd honestly place it magnitudes beneath Super Saiyan God.
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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by Hulk10 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:27 pm

Due to its nature I feel like the SSJ4 is on equal footing with SSJB
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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by TobyS » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:06 am

The one story that has both, heroes, has Xeno Goku already trained to his limits, so he's probably stronger in equivilant forms.

So Goku SS4 and Blue Goku seem about equal but Xeno Goku is stronger than Goku in base so IMO this actually implies it's weaker.

Limit broken SS4 seems better than Blue, but then there is Perfected/Evo and UI Sign/evil saiyan stuff, which probably match or leapfrog them.

Then finally you have UI and EGO which are above SS4. I wonder how they will keep the SS4 boys competitive with the Super guys going forward...
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by SSJgogeto » Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:38 pm

In my opinion taking into account only GT and Super the difference between the power boost between SS4 and forms like God and Blue is massive.

Honestly speaking, I don't think even SS4 Gogeta can lay a finger on Goku SS God, and even Vegeta in his Rage form can cause a lot of trouble in GTverse. Also, Goku's base form in GT is way stronger than Goku's base form in Super.

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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by Hulk10 » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:28 am

It would be interesting to see new forms for the Xeno Kakarot and Xeno Vegeta. Though I think the limit breaker form for SSJ4 is enough.
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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:19 am

GENERALLY speaking, SS4 is usually compared directly to the anime version of Blue in most if not all extra-media(VGs and the such).

Manga Complete Blue, Blue Kaiohken and Blue Evolution are thus stronger than SS4, while God is weaker(perhaps on the level of Golden Ozaru?)

Super Full Power Saiyan 4 is, IMHO, probably comparable to Blue Evolution.

Now, in the manga Blue kept getting stronger, but it wasn't due the transformation itself as much as external technique like Spirit Control and using UI with it: both things theoretically possible with SS4 as well.
Recently, Heroes gave SFPS4 a Limit Breaker further form, which is likely meant to move SS4 to the aforementioned level of improvement given by Spirit Control and UI while also leaving space for the SS4 forms to improve to whatever level is necessary

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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by Thani » Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:27 am

So basically, SSG > SS4

But GT Goku (and, by extension, Xeno Goku) > Super Goku, in the same forms at least.

Thus, GT Goku's SS4 can potentially match Super Goku's SSG, despite God being a stronger form than 4. Xeno Goku, being much stronger than GT Goku, likewise can match even Super Goku's SSB with SS4 thanks to being much stronger in equivalent states.

But SS4 is an inherently weaker transformation.

That's my take on it, anyway.

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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:08 pm

I agree with most people here.

SSG >> SS4. The god form is beyond fusion, and SS4 is supposse to rival SS fusion.
DBS Goku <<< GT Goku. He is just stronger in his base form, than manga Goku at least, this being the reason why a SS4 user can rival a SSB user, the edge of the god form is cancelled out by the weaker base form.

Makes me wonder how strong would base GT Goku if he got SSB, and how much weaker would DBS Goku with SS4.

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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by TobyS » Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:12 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:08 pm I agree with most people here.

SSG >> SS4. The god form is beyond fusion, and SS4 is supposse to rival SS fusion.
DBS Goku <<< GT Goku. He is just stronger in his base form, than manga Goku at least, this being the reason why a SS4 user can rival a SSB user, the edge of the god form is cancelled out by the weaker base form.

Makes me wonder how strong would base GT Goku if he got SSB, and how much weaker would DBS Goku with SS4.
Yeah it's weird because I don't want to see it. But they should logically try it in universe. If all 4 of them use the same forms there wont be much point having both and the Super characters will be useless.

Stacking them would be ugly and too fanworky even for Heroes.

My little headcanon is the Xeno timeline is U12 guys timeline, history changed so much that saiyans have SS4 and don't have the ability to harness god ki. In fact only Trunks does but he isn't from the GTesque TL AND he's half human so he has 2 'outs'
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by Hulk10 » Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:21 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:19 am GENERALLY speaking, SS4 is usually compared directly to the anime version of Blue in most if not all extra-media(VGs and the such).

Manga Complete Blue, Blue Kaiohken and Blue Evolution are thus stronger than SS4, while God is weaker(perhaps on the level of Golden Ozaru?)

Super Full Power Saiyan 4 is, IMHO, probably comparable to Blue Evolution.

Now, in the manga Blue kept getting stronger, but it wasn't due the transformation itself as much as external technique like Spirit Control and using UI with it: both things theoretically possible with SS4 as well.
Recently, Heroes gave SFPS4 a Limit Breaker further form, which is likely meant to move SS4 to the aforementioned level of improvement given by Spirit Control and UI while also leaving space for the SS4 forms to improve to whatever level is necessary
I don't agree with you on the Manga Blue being stronger than SS4 thing but I do agree that Spirit Control and UI are theoretically possible with SS4.
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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by TobyS » Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:18 am

Hulk10 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:21 pm
ankokudaishogun wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:19 am GENERALLY speaking, SS4 is usually compared directly to the anime version of Blue in most if not all extra-media(VGs and the such).

Manga Complete Blue, Blue Kaiohken and Blue Evolution are thus stronger than SS4, while God is weaker(perhaps on the level of Golden Ozaru?)

Super Full Power Saiyan 4 is, IMHO, probably comparable to Blue Evolution.

Now, in the manga Blue kept getting stronger, but it wasn't due the transformation itself as much as external technique like Spirit Control and using UI with it: both things theoretically possible with SS4 as well.
Recently, Heroes gave SFPS4 a Limit Breaker further form, which is likely meant to move SS4 to the aforementioned level of improvement given by Spirit Control and UI while also leaving space for the SS4 forms to improve to whatever level is necessary
I don't agree with you on the Manga Blue being stronger than SS4 thing but I do agree that Spirit Control and UI are theoretically possible with SS4.
There's the whole god was stronger than Vegito who's like mid GT tier. and then blue and their bases get lots stronger than that.

It's genuinely hard to argue Blue isn't stronger in any form.

But yeah from the Manga you can use UI in blue and everything else below so yeah I don't see why SS4 couldn't use either of those things, unless my little "the universes and their evolutionary paths are just different.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by Hulk10 » Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:00 pm

TobyS wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:18 am
Hulk10 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:21 pm
ankokudaishogun wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:19 am GENERALLY speaking, SS4 is usually compared directly to the anime version of Blue in most if not all extra-media(VGs and the such).

Manga Complete Blue, Blue Kaiohken and Blue Evolution are thus stronger than SS4, while God is weaker(perhaps on the level of Golden Ozaru?)

Super Full Power Saiyan 4 is, IMHO, probably comparable to Blue Evolution.

Now, in the manga Blue kept getting stronger, but it wasn't due the transformation itself as much as external technique like Spirit Control and using UI with it: both things theoretically possible with SS4 as well.
Recently, Heroes gave SFPS4 a Limit Breaker further form, which is likely meant to move SS4 to the aforementioned level of improvement given by Spirit Control and UI while also leaving space for the SS4 forms to improve to whatever level is necessary
I don't agree with you on the Manga Blue being stronger than SS4 thing but I do agree that Spirit Control and UI are theoretically possible with SS4.
There's the whole god was stronger than Vegito who's like mid GT tier. and then blue and their bases get lots stronger than that.

It's genuinely hard to argue Blue isn't stronger in any form.

But yeah from the Manga you can use UI in blue and everything else below so yeah I don't see why SS4 couldn't use either of those things, unless my little "the universes and their evolutionary paths are just different.
I feel its too big a jump to say DBZ Vegito is stronger than god but you are welcome to think that. UI is an ability not just a transformation so it can be used in conjunction with other forms.
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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by Thani » Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:28 pm

Hulk10 wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:00 pm
TobyS wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:18 am
Hulk10 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:21 pm

I don't agree with you on the Manga Blue being stronger than SS4 thing but I do agree that Spirit Control and UI are theoretically possible with SS4.
There's the whole god was stronger than Vegito who's like mid GT tier. and then blue and their bases get lots stronger than that.

It's genuinely hard to argue Blue isn't stronger in any form.

But yeah from the Manga you can use UI in blue and everything else below so yeah I don't see why SS4 couldn't use either of those things, unless my little "the universes and their evolutionary paths are just different.
I feel its too big a jump to say DBZ Vegito is stronger than god but you are welcome to think that. UI is an ability not just a transformation so it can be used in conjunction with other forms.
Quite the opposite, he said God was stronger than BoG Vegito at his best. Which had to be the case for God Goku to stand a chance against Beerus, despite fusion not being able to cut it.

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Re: SSG, SSB, ASSB, & SSB:E In Comparison To SS4...

Post by Hulk10 » Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:10 pm

Thani wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:28 pm
Hulk10 wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:00 pm
TobyS wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:18 am

There's the whole god was stronger than Vegito who's like mid GT tier. and then blue and their bases get lots stronger than that.

It's genuinely hard to argue Blue isn't stronger in any form.

But yeah from the Manga you can use UI in blue and everything else below so yeah I don't see why SS4 couldn't use either of those things, unless my little "the universes and their evolutionary paths are just different.
I feel its too big a jump to say DBZ Vegito is stronger than god but you are welcome to think that. UI is an ability not just a transformation so it can be used in conjunction with other forms.
Quite the opposite, he said God was stronger than BoG Vegito at his best. Which had to be the case for God Goku to stand a chance against Beerus, despite fusion not being able to cut it.
True enough, Beerus is powerful.
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