"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by ryou766 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:51 am

Grimlock wrote:A lot of awesome stuff from Online could become be involved properly in the series... Why Toriyama insist in ignoring it? :cry:
Well, they certainly don't seem to be ignoring it when it comes to XV; as they're taking ideas from it. But I wouldn't mind small aspects from DBO being implemented in the story.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by HeroR » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:05 am

Grimlock wrote:A lot of awesome stuff from Online could become be involved properly in the series... Why Toriyama insist in ignoring it? :cry:
Maybe because, despite fan belief, Toriyama never wrote Online. He probably saw the story, ok it, and did some character designs for it. If Toriyama didn't write or draw it, he doesn't care if it exist as seen when he rewrote Bardock's origins for Minus.

Which is fine by me. Stuff from video games should be separate from this series in my opinion.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Big Black Sayian » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:17 am

Grimlock wrote:Great, another thing related to time, but apparently not related to Kaioshin of Time herself... :(
Won't know until it's all said and done

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Grimlock » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:20 am

HeroR wrote:Maybe because, despite fan belief, Toriyama never wrote Online. He probably saw the story, ok it, and did some character designs for it. If Toriyama didn't write or draw it, he doesn't care if it exist as seen when he rewrote Bardock's origins for Minus.

Which is fine by me. Stuff from video games should be separate from this series in my opinion.
There's no way to know whether he wrote it or not. But there are some indications that at least point that he did contribute to some extent, such as Bardock's personality that doesn't come from Dragon Ball Minus. Also, Toriyama spent five years in the production of the game, one must be really gullible to think that all he did was designing characters and didn't have any finger in the story.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by HeroR » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:28 am

Grimlock wrote:
HeroR wrote:Maybe because, despite fan belief, Toriyama never wrote Online. He probably saw the story, ok it, and did some character designs for it. If Toriyama didn't write or draw it, he doesn't care if it exist as seen when he rewrote Bardock's origins for Minus.

Which is fine by me. Stuff from video games should be separate from this series in my opinion.
There's no way to know whether he wrote it or not. But there are some indications that at least point that he did contribute to some extent, such as Bardock's personality that doesn't come from Dragon Ball Minus. Also, Toriyama spent five years in the production of the game, one must be really gullible to think that all he did was designing characters and didn't have any finger in the story.
Bardock is different is that he was worthy of being saved, while Toriyama called Bardock a low class Saiyan at his death. He even said in an interview that there was no point bring Bardock back to life since he would be really weak. Plus, Bardock is literally the only outside influence that Toriyama seems to care about.

The information about Online is also extremely spotty with different reports about how involve Toriyama was in it. And even if he did have some hand in the story, which I don't think it is as much as some implied, it's obvious he using almost no elements from it since in Online Freeza's army is still around and waited until Mr. Satan died to attack the Earth since they thought he was this ultra powerful warrior, yet we see in Resurrection 'F' that Freeza's army know good and well that it's Goku who was the strongest and stood away from Earth because they were terrified of him. It also had Goku dying at old age in his 60s, while Vegeta said in Super Saiyans remain young until their 80s.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Grimlock » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:44 am

That's an extremely cheap reason to give, since we have Freeza coming back even though he was weak too. If he can come up with random excuse to give Freeza more power, so can he with Bardock. There's no way a person can buy that reason/excuse for not bringing him back.

That sort of divergence happens all the time, it doesn't necessarily mean that Toriyama is ignoring something, they didn't even acknowledge Abo and Cado from Dragon Ball: Yo!! Son Goku and His Friends Return! in Movie 15 even though Tarble was mentioned in the previous movie. As for Goku's age, they don't say he's going to die at that age, they just say Goku and Vegeta know they won't live much longer, which matches with Toriyama's speaking that Saiyans' lifespan isn't much longer than humans.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by HeroR » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:54 am

Grimlock wrote:
That's an extremely cheap reason to give, since we have Freeza coming back even though he was weak too. If he can come up with random excuse to give Freeza more power, so can he with Bardock. There's no way a person can buy that reason/excuse for not bringing him back.

That sort of divergence happens all the time, it doesn't necessarily mean that Toriyama is ignoring something, they didn't even acknowledge Abo and Cado from Dragon Ball: Yo!! Son Goku and His Friends Return! in Movie 15 even though Tarble was mentioned in the previous movie. As for Goku's age, they don't say he's going to die at that age, they just say they know they won't live much longer, which matches with Toriyama's speaking that Saiyans lifespan isn't much longer than humans.
Freeza is a mutant and a prodigy who was born with a power level around 120 million and was the strongest mortal in the universe by default. Bardock is a low class warrior who no one took notice of and never became even a mid-class Saiyan in his life time. You really can't compare the two, especially since Freeza is only 'weak' compared to androids that were specific built to be the strongest in the universe, a demon that existence since the beginning of the universe, and the gods of the universe.

These divergence happen because Toriyama didn't write most of the stuff and he just nodded his head and went with it since he was very hands off until around 2008, and even then he leaves a lot of details to other people. And that is what I meant. Goku knew he wasn't going to live much longer so he challenged Vegeta to one final duel. Goku was in his 60s and Saiyans stay in their prime until 80 according to Super. You don't see the problem there? Even 60 isn't that old for a human, especially with Vegeta rocking his 70s and nothing was said about him not having long to live.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Neon Z » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:57 am

There's at least one tidbit that did make it to Toriyama's later writing - the idea that time travel is a crime. Anyway, considering what Heroes seems to be doing with Trunks (the time patrol stuff seems to be before this arc, rather than it being an alternate version or in the future) referencing the TP stuff seems extremely unlikely since it'd involve a huge exposition dump, and Toriyama certainly hasn't been closely involved with stuff like Xenoverse. It'd just result in a couple of characters being acknowledged but many details changing, like what happened with Dragonball Minus.
HeroR wrote:These divergence happen because Toriyama didn't write most of the stuff and he just nodded his head and went with it since he was very hands off until around 2008, and even then he leaves a lot of details to other people. And that is what I meant. Goku knew he wasn't going to live much longer so he challenged Vegeta to one final duel. Goku was in his 60s and Saiyans stay in their prime until 80 according to Super. You don't see the problem there? Even 60 isn't that old for a human, especially with Vegeta rocking his 70s and nothing was said about him not having long to live.
It wasn't about him dying soon though, it was about his strength waning. He wanted to have a final match with Vegeta while both were still in their prime.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by HeroR » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:07 pm

Neon Z wrote:There's at least one tidbit that did make it to Toriyama's later writing - the idea that time travel is a crime. Anyway, considering what Heroes seems to be doing with Trunks (the time patrol stuff seems to be before this arc, rather than it being an alternate version or in the future) referencing the TP stuff seems extremely unlikely since it'd involve a huge exposition dump, and Toriyama certainly hasn't been closely involved with stuff like Xenoverse. It'd just result in a couple of characters being acknowledged but many details changing, like what happened with Dragonball Minus.
HeroR wrote:These divergence happen because Toriyama didn't write most of the stuff and he just nodded his head and went with it since he was very hands off until around 2008, and even then he leaves a lot of details to other people. And that is what I meant. Goku knew he wasn't going to live much longer so he challenged Vegeta to one final duel. Goku was in his 60s and Saiyans stay in their prime until 80 according to Super. You don't see the problem there? Even 60 isn't that old for a human, especially with Vegeta rocking his 70s and nothing was said about him not having long to live.
It wasn't about him dying soon though, it was about his strength waning. He wanted to have a final match with Vegeta while both were still in their prime.
Why would Goku's strength be waning in his 60s when Saiyans stay young until their 80s before it goes downhill for them is what I am saying. Also, him having one last match with Vegeta actually makes less sense since Goku has Hit, a multiverse worth of people he can enjoy fighting, along with Beerus and Whis. No offense, but Goku just barely treats Vegeta as an equal. If I imagine Goku's final match at this point, it would be against Beerus and him trying to finally surpass him since Toriyama more or less stated that Beerus is the end goal.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Grimlock » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:26 pm

HeroR wrote:Freeza is a mutant and a prodigy who was born with a power level around 120 million and was the strongest mortal in the universe by default. Bardock is a low class warrior who no one took notice of and never became even a mid-class Saiyan in his life time. You really can't compare the two, especially since Freeza is only 'weak' compared to androids that were specific built to be the strongest in the universe, a demon that existence since the beginning of the universe, and the gods of the universe.

These divergence happen because Toriyama didn't write most of the stuff and he just nodded his head and went with it since he was very hands off until around 2008, and even then he leaves a lot of details to other people. And that is what I meant. Goku knew he wasn't going to live much longer so he challenged Vegeta to one final duel. Goku was in his 60s and Saiyans stay in their prime until 80 according to Super. You don't see the problem there? Even 60 isn't that old for a human, especially with Vegeta rocking his 70s and nothing was said about him not having long to live.
Eh, where does that information about his power level come from? A Saiyan doesn't need to become a mid-class to be noticed. Bardock is famous and the strongest low-class Saiyan of his time.

Or maybe he forgot, Toriyama is known for that. No, I don't see, why would they pick a fight on the verge of their death when they know they will die eventually and can't decide to pick a fight while still in their primes? Not to mention the fact that Dragon Ball Super came way after Dragon Ball Online, so some problems would obviously happen.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by HeroR » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:34 pm

Grimlock wrote:
HeroR wrote:Freeza is a mutant and a prodigy who was born with a power level around 120 million and was the strongest mortal in the universe by default. Bardock is a low class warrior who no one took notice of and never became even a mid-class Saiyan in his life time. You really can't compare the two, especially since Freeza is only 'weak' compared to androids that were specific built to be the strongest in the universe, a demon that existence since the beginning of the universe, and the gods of the universe.

These divergence happen because Toriyama didn't write most of the stuff and he just nodded his head and went with it since he was very hands off until around 2008, and even then he leaves a lot of details to other people. And that is what I meant. Goku knew he wasn't going to live much longer so he challenged Vegeta to one final duel. Goku was in his 60s and Saiyans stay in their prime until 80 according to Super. You don't see the problem there? Even 60 isn't that old for a human, especially with Vegeta rocking his 70s and nothing was said about him not having long to live.
Eh, where does that information about his power level come from? A Saiyan doesn't need to become a mid-class to be noticed. Bardock is famous and the strongest low-class Saiyan of his time.

Or maybe he forgot, Toriyama is known for that. No, I don't see, why would they pick a fight on the verge of their death when they know they will die eventually and can't decide to pick a fight while still their primes? Not to mention the fact that Dragon Ball Super came way after Dragon Ball Online, so some problems obviously would happen.
Where are you basing that Bardock was the strongest low class Saiyan of his time? It can't be Minus and Toriyama just said that Bardock was strong for a low class,not that he was the strongest of the low class. And the 120 million power level came from guide books that state that full power Freeza is 120 million, while Super Saiyan Goku was 150 million. Even if we omit that, Freeza was still the strongest in the universe upon birth, while Bardock was a nameless low class warrior.

And Toriyama forgets is such a cop-out answer that you lose your point the moment you use it. Most likely, someone else came up with the idea and Toriyama just said okay. Why would Goku be on the verge of death or whatever in his 60s when Saiyans stay young until their 80s? Yeah, Super is now while Online was years ago, but if Toriyama had his finger on the pulse on Online as much as some have implied, some of this information should match.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:40 pm

Can we stick to Dragon Ball Super here, and not Dragon Ball Online. Dragon Ball Online is a dead MMO with ideas that have been incorporated into both Xenoverse and Heroes. I don't think Super is getting any Online elements, and especially not it's finale which would mean leaving the 10 year gap.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:06 pm

Guys i fucking called it! Turns out my prediction MAY be right again. And this Green Dude really is the Kaioshin of Time..
Toriyama's legitimate version that is.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Chelentano » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:08 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:Guys i fucking called it! Turns out my prediction MAY be right again. And this Green Dude really is the Kaioshin of Time..
Toriyama's legitimate version that is.
And how is that? Is there new information about that?
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by YonedgeHP » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:13 pm

Chelentano wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:Guys i fucking called it! Turns out my prediction MAY be right again. And this Green Dude really is the Kaioshin of Time..
Toriyama's legitimate version that is.
And how is that? Is there new information about that?
More information has been revealed in the synopsis of the episode 50. :)
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Chelentano » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:28 pm

YonedgeHP wrote:
Chelentano wrote:
GodVegetto91 wrote:Guys i fucking called it! Turns out my prediction MAY be right again. And this Green Dude really is the Kaioshin of Time..
Toriyama's legitimate version that is.
And how is that? Is there new information about that?
More information has been revealed in the synopsis of the episode 50. :)
Oh, I see. I should have realized. I skipped the synopsis because I don't want spoilers.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:42 pm

Lore is NOT story, and it never was, and you should stop spreading this nonsense.
Content is NOT substance.
Bunch of characters doing stuff do NOT make an esemble cast.
Secondary characters are secondary, they do NOT deserve or are entitled to having more screen time.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Yomi » Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:50 pm

I don't understand why Goku and Vegeta are wearing their old clothes. For goku it just seems so baggy and saggy now.
For vegeta it doesn't complement his SSB, Goku's doesn't either.
:clap:

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:57 pm

Yomi wrote:I don't understand why Goku and Vegeta are wearing their old clothes. For goku it just seems so baggy and saggy now.
For vegeta it doesn't complement his SSB, Goku's doesn't either.
It helps with merchandise sells. Eventually the two will get new outfits to wear, too.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Kouga » Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:10 pm

Yomi wrote:I don't understand why Goku and Vegeta are wearing their old clothes. For goku it just seems so baggy and saggy now.
For vegeta it doesn't complement his SSB, Goku's doesn't either.
And what if in this arc they show a new transformation with a hair color that fits with the colors of the classic dogi? :?
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