"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by alakazam^ » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:34 am

dbzfan7 wrote:I never even said that. I said we'll find out what will happen, but Super's shown it's tendency to fuck up a lot so it could go either way. I literally only added that just to see if you would get angry if I said that, and it seems you got triggered and horrendously exaggerated things.
Good to know you're more interested in being childish than in having a conversation, not that it surprises me... I didn't horrendously exagerate things, I satirized the kind of dumb reasoning people tend to have. Obviously, Super fucking up a lot is just your opinion, not fact but you said it on purpose anyway so I'm not sure what you think you achieved by it because, actually, I don't mind people criticizing Super as long as they actually have a point. Toning it down was a good choice though, "butthurt" would expose your troll.
dbzfan7 wrote:The whole point of the scene was Gohan was pure of heart and could not be effected by it. That's why he could bounce it back. If he wasn't pure of heart, he'd literally be killed by the move right on the spot. That's why Gohan easily deflected it without a scratch on him. If it was by his own force that allowed him to push it back, then Vegeta would not take nearly as much damage as he did. By your definition, Gohan should have just died pure heart or not considering he is much weaker than Vegeta is.

That's because instead of a pure heart, Boo had enough power to hold it back. So it's much different. A pure hearted individual is not harmed, while an evil individual has to have enough strength to overcome such massive power. Boo survived on raw power, not on pureness. So he couldn't simply bounce it back as easily as Gohan. Not to mention in all three cases it's used on a villain, and not a person who is of pure heart. The Genki Dama can not harm someone of pure heart, which Goku himself assured Gohan of when he thought the attack was gonna kill him. It can be pushed back with enough force if you're evil. I have no idea how you are even coming to these conclusions. It needs enough power to overcome the power of a villain. That has nothing to do with a pure good being, as it's not used on one.

Planets don't have a soul or definition to even be considered good or evil, they don't have a ki at all to be judged. If Goku shoots it at Jiren and he's pure....he simply knocks it back just like Gohan did. It's literally as simple as that. Not to mention how the Genki dama works as it's not simple 1 to 1 ki, or Gohan along could have powered the Super Genki Dama up. It's not gonna go through him or disintegrate. He'll merely push it back without having to use much effort, and then it flies beyond the abyss before exploding. And that's only if he's a pure hearted being, which again Good does not equal pure. Good and pure are two different things and classifications. We don't know Jiren's personality fully...or if he'll even have one.

No it doesn't. It just has more power stockpiled into it. It's completely ineffective against if Jiren is of pure heart. Just like Gohan it won't do a thing. More power doesn't suddenly make it more of a big deal to reflect for a pure being. It's weight was enough to push Gohan back, but not even harm him when it did.

I'm not even arguing that the Genki Dama can't be used at all. They can totally make it work. They could also mess it up. I think it's plenty easy to make it work. Jiren isn't pure of heart, therefore it works fine. Goku can sense a ki if it's evil or not, so he'd know. It's easy to make work in Super. It's not an implausible idea. The bigger question is to see where he's gonna get that energy from. He's in a void world. Ki is not 1 to 1 Genki so that's not gonna make a difference, and I'm not sure God's are allowed to really give their energy to such an attack. Sounds like outside help. I'm curious to how this will be done.
It's not pureness of heart, it's not having evil ki. Anyways, Gohan was affected by it because he got pushed back afterwards, otherwise he'd stood his ground unaffected. When was the last time Goku called an attack "ally"? That seems more like "baby talk" to have his own kid react quickly and not get hit by the ki ball heading towards him. The matter of fact is that, after that incident, the Genkidama was never shown to have any special anti-evil abilities again. The way I see it, Gohan deflected a ki ball (that already had lost half of its power anyway) and Vegeeta didn't have time to defend himself and got hit by it. There.

You're just moving the goalposts. So now, not having evil ki doesn't matter, he was just strong enough to hold his own? How does that make any sense? You're making up rules that aren't said anywhere else, not even Kaiou talked about evil ki when he was explaining the Genkidama to the readers. Actually, he warned Goku that it was a dangerous technique that could even destroy the planet he would try to defend. You know, the planet that actually lent its genki to begin with... Doesn't sound like an anti-evil technique that only works on bad guys to me.

The Mafuuba works on everyone and there are people that think it only works against evil guys as well. The Mafuuba works by default, it doesn't need time to charge depending on the enemy. Can you see the difference? If the Genkidama was "evil only", it wouldn't need to charge anything since its special properties would work regardless of how strong the person was, they'd just need to be evil. Except that's not the case and it wasn't shown to be, you can cling to one sentence Goku said all you want but if it wouldn't harm Gohan he wouldn't have the need to say something to get it out of Gohan's way as quickly as possible, let alone hitting Vegeeta, which was an afterthought at that point.

Planets have genki and "willfully" lend it to Goku and can get destroyed by it. You'd think an anti-evil attack would realize what it was attacking or exploding on since it's already picky to begin with.

Anyway, curious about Frost and Freeza's role.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Arugela » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:45 am

Totamo wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:
Totamo wrote: Wait, Kid Buu was pure of heart and was also overpowered so how did it work on him.
He's pure evil. The perfect candidate to be obliterated by the blast. IIRC, he used his own ki to deflect it (i.e. generated wind through his palms) and was far stronger than Goku until Goku got his energy back.
Pure of heart is pure evil. Thats why Vegeta got super saiyan remember?
I'm thinking pure means true to yourself not pure good. In which case vegeta is pure ahole, or pure whipping boy, or pure whipping boy/suckup.... The man is always true to himself. Even when he's untrue to himself!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:04 am

alakazam^ wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:I never even said that. I said we'll find out what will happen, but Super's shown it's tendency to fuck up a lot so it could go either way. I literally only added that just to see if you would get angry if I said that, and it seems you got triggered and horrendously exaggerated things.
Good to know you're more interested in being childish than in having a conversation, not that it surprises me... I didn't horrendously exagerate things, I satirized the kind of dumb reasoning people tend to have. Obviously, Super fucking up a lot is just your opinion, not fact but you said it on purpose anyway so I'm not sure what you think you achieved by it because, actually, I don't mind people criticizing Super as long as they actually have a point. Toning it down was a good choice though, "butthurt" would expose your troll.
You totally horribly exaggerated things. That's literally why I said it. Just to see if you'd do it again, which you did. Though really if you didn't mind, I don't think you'd overreact like you did on such a baseless barely worth observing jab. I'm not the one making a bunch of nonsensical because I said something "Mean" about Super.
Sure, Super makes no sense whatsoever, they walk with their hands and talk through their bums :roll: I'd rather think a little than default to "Toriyama forgot X" and "Toei hates Y" kind of conclusions.
This is such a huge overreaction it's beyond ridiculous. It assumes so much based on so little that I need to apparently have to say "My opinion" just so you can understand it? Of course it's my opinion and then you go and throw a spasm about it. Yes this really is not childish and silly, not at all. The sarcasm and emoji use is clearly a sign of adolescence.
alakazam^ wrote:It's not pureness of heart, it's not having evil ki. Anyways, Gohan was affected by it because he got pushed back afterwards, otherwise he'd stood his ground unaffected. When was the last time Goku called an attack "ally"? That seems more like "baby talk" to have his own kid react quickly and not get hit by the ki ball heading towards him. The matter of fact is that, after that incident, the Genkidama was never shown to have any special anti-evil abilities again. The way I see it, Gohan deflected a ki ball (that already had lost half of its power anyway) and Vegeeta didn't have time to defend himself and got hit by it. There.

You're just moving the goalposts. So now, not having evil ki doesn't matter, he was just strong enough to hold his own? How does that make any sense? You're making up rules that aren't said anywhere else, not even Kaiou talked about evil ki when he was explaining the Genkidama to the readers. Actually, he warned Goku that it was a dangerous technique that could even destroy the planet he would try to defend. You know, the planet that actually lent its genki to begin with... Doesn't sound like an anti-evil technique that only works on bad guys to me.

The Mafuuba works on everyone and there are people that think it only works against evil guys as well. The Mafuuba works by default, it doesn't need time to charge depending on the enemy. Can you see the difference? If the Genkidama was "evil only", it wouldn't need to charge anything since its special properties would work regardless of how strong the person was, they'd just need to be evil. Except that's not the case and it wasn't shown to be, you can cling to one sentence Goku said all you want but if it wouldn't harm Gohan he wouldn't have the need to say something to get it out of Gohan's way as quickly as possible, let alone hitting Vegeeta, which was an afterthought at that point.

Planets have genki and "willfully" lend it to Goku and can get destroyed by it. You'd think an anti-evil attack would realize what it was attacking or exploding on since it's already picky to begin with.
There what? We literally have Goku SAY why Gohan will be fine and that he won't be hurt. He flat out says why. It has nothing to do with his power, it's about not having an evil ki. I'm not sure how that translates to it can be used on anyone. Heck he didn't even deflect it with force, it literally bounced off of him. Like a pinball hitting an edge. That's why he was sent flying back. Otherwise leverage and force would dictate he wouldn't be pushed back considering he was the one pushed by the Genki Dama. Gohan merely rebounded it off of him. Not to mention the attack literally needing to be apparently made by someone who is pure of heart.

You're the one making up rules. This whole Gohan pushed it back by sheer force when we're literally told how he did it, then hiding behind it's never said again so suddenly this doesn't count? The planet isn't a living being in the way animals and humans are. Goku can take from the sun too as we've been told. Not to mention Kaio said that could happen when he loses control of the move, which can mean a number of things. At least I have official material that says something instead of theory crafting and no other example to point towards.

It wouldn't work on anyone because it needs enough power to even do damage in the first place. Think the Devilmite beam. Useful on pretty much everyone except if they have a pure heart. Even the tiniest of evil can spell death with the technique, but on a pure being it's useless. That's basically what it is. It's more like it a person without evil can merely push it away without having to deal with such force as Goku showed us. But hey at least I have something from the story that tells us something, while you come up and make excuses instead of giving me one instance in any medium where the Genki Dama works as you have suggested it. And again you miss the point of Gohan HAD to deflect it to Vegeta. If it just bounced off him it wasn't gonna automatically go straight to Vegeta. It'd miss him completely like before. Though please do give me just 1 example where it harms a pure of heart being. Or an example where someone pure in manga, anime, movie, or any version is effected by the attack despite being pure of heart. Out of literally every medium we've had, I don't believe one of them even has shown this. At least I CAN point to something. One line even is better than your ZERO lines.

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He takes the planets energy, and? Planets don't have good or evil ki. Genki doesn't even translate that way or else literally no one outside of plants could really give their energy, considering I doubt all the earthlings or people from the after life are pure. That would mean everyone who donated to the attack is pure. The Genki Dama can hurt anyone whether they are good or evil. A pure of heart person is the only difference the series has touched upon. Hence Jiren could be a good guy, but not pure of heart. Vegeta is a good guy, but I would not say pure of heart. So it can work on Jiren fine like that. And that's even if it's merely thrown at him. There's still a lot of questions I hope are answered with just conceiving the dang thing as I would think audience help is forbidden, and there's no where to draw power outside of his friends and that sun above everyone...if it is a sun.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:34 am

Why would Freeza betray U7 now? It would not make sense for him to say that with more than 30 warriors left in the arena. Your goal is to just be the last to stand and get the SDB, but he needs the strength of his "allies" first. Revealing that now would only lessen the firepower of his own team

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:38 am

Hopefully Vegeta can break the ending's curse and frees himself.

Does it say anything about Roshi ? I don't see how his body could take doing that again.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:41 am

omaro34 wrote:So obvious that Freeza was going to backstab his own universe. Hopefully that talk of Freeza becoming good is put to bed. Now more than likely he'll be killed off when this is done.

Gohan can thank his father for getting double teamed by Frost demons for insisting on Freeza joining the squad in the first place.
It wasn't like Gohan said anything in protest.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Tombstone1988 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:53 am

Latest spoilers both answered a few questions for me and raised some new ones.

Frost turning the Mafuba on Vegeta sounds really cool; I'm actually pretty hyped to see that now. However, apparently Roshi's original target was Megetta? Mafuba translates to 'Evil Containment Wave,' right? Between Roshi using it on Darkori (who may or may not be evil) and now on Megetta (who I'm fairly sure is NOT evil), I'm starting to question the accuracy of that translation.

Freeza supposedly announcing his betrayal makes a lot more sense to me than all of the other members of Universe 7 apparently observing his treachery while also apparently just watching Gohan get beaten up. However, why is he announcing his betrayal at this stage of the game? There's at least 32 fighters left in the arena at this point. Surely telling everyone you're going to work with Frost and betray all the Saiyans when there's still that many active participants is a bad idea? I'm confused, a little disgruntled and also a little excited in how this plays out.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Simere » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:14 am

Tombstone1988 wrote:Latest spoilers both answered a few questions for me and raised some new ones.

Frost turning the Mafuba on Vegeta sounds really cool; I'm actually pretty hyped to see that now. However, apparently Roshi's original target was Megetta? Mafuba translates to 'Evil Containment Wave,' right? Between Roshi using it on Darkori (who may or may not be evil) and now on Megetta (who I'm fairly sure is NOT evil), I'm starting to question the accuracy of that translation.
I believe "demon" is more accurate than evil, and it was named that because it was create to seal away Piccolo Daimao—who wasn't actually a demon. It doesn't only work on demons or those with evil alignments, as shown when Piccolo reversed it on Kami or Goku practicing it on Turtle. Just like the Kamehameha doesn't shoot surfing turtles or the Masenko isn't actually demonic, it's just a name.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Jigurashi » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:17 am

sintzu wrote:Hopefully Vegeta can break the ending's curse and frees himself.

Does it say anything about Roshi ? I don't see how his body could take doing that again.
Why would it be hopefully? Wasn't it already confirmed U7 remains with 8 members still going into episode 109? If that's the case Vegeta is probably getting freed from the Mafuba attack. Or do you just mean in general?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Tombstone1988 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:25 am

Simere wrote:I believe "demon" is more accurate than evil, and it was named that because it was create to seal away Piccolo Daimao—who wasn't actually a demon. It doesn't only work on demons or those with evil alignments, as shown when Piccolo reversed it on Kami or Goku practicing it on Turtle. Just like the Kamehameha doesn't shoot surfing turtles or the Masenko isn't actually demonic, it's just a name.
Oh, I know it doesn't just work on evil characters; I was really more just making a joke. However, the first tidbit about "demon" being a more accurate translation was actually something I didn't know. Pretty cool.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Michsi » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:25 am

Jigurashi wrote:
sintzu wrote:Hopefully Vegeta can break the ending's curse and frees himself.

Does it say anything about Roshi ? I don't see how his body could take doing that again.
Why would it be hopefully? Wasn't it already confirmed U7 remains with 8 members still going into episode 109? If that's the case Vegeta is probably getting freed from the Mafuba attack. Or do you just mean in general?

Weeeell, if he gets sealed, but the bottle still remains inside the arena, he's technically not out. It could be plot point, for the U7 members to try and get him out.

I'd be kinda peeved if he could escape himself.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:26 am

Jigurashi wrote:Wasn't it already confirmed U7 remains with 8 members still going into episode 109?

If that's the case Vegeta is probably getting freed from the Mafuba attack. Or do you just mean in general?
I didn't know about that.

I also mean in general cause if he's out 3rd then chances are the ending will be right and I don't want to know the order everyone goes in.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Simere » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:26 am

Tombstone1988 wrote:Oh, I know it doesn't just work on evil characters; I was really more just making a joke. However, the first tidbit about "demon" being a more accurate translation was actually something I didn't know. Pretty cool.
Oh...sorry for missing the joke. :oops:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:01 am

Jigurashi wrote:
sintzu wrote:Hopefully Vegeta can break the ending's curse and frees himself.

Does it say anything about Roshi ? I don't see how his body could take doing that again.
Why would it be hopefully? Wasn't it already confirmed U7 remains with 8 members still going into episode 109? If that's the case Vegeta is probably getting freed from the Mafuba attack. Or do you just mean in general?
Or, he remains stuck in the bottle after it gets lost.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:15 am

HeroR wrote:
Jigurashi wrote:
sintzu wrote:Hopefully Vegeta can break the ending's curse and frees himself.

Does it say anything about Roshi ? I don't see how his body could take doing that again.
Why would it be hopefully? Wasn't it already confirmed U7 remains with 8 members still going into episode 109? If that's the case Vegeta is probably getting freed from the Mafuba attack. Or do you just mean in general?
Or, he remains stuck in the bottle after it gets lost.
Maybe that's how they win the tournament, Vegeta remaining in the bottle without anyone knowing about him as the last fighter. It would be a stupid way of winning but a win none the less. :lol:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:22 am

sintzu wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Jigurashi wrote: Why would it be hopefully? Wasn't it already confirmed U7 remains with 8 members still going into episode 109? If that's the case Vegeta is probably getting freed from the Mafuba attack. Or do you just mean in general?
Or, he remains stuck in the bottle after it gets lost.
Maybe that's how they win the tournament, Vegeta remaining in the bottle without anyone knowing about him as the last fighter. It would be a stupid way of winning but a win none the less. :lol:
Personally, I would find that hilarious and it's very Toriyama.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:28 am

HeroR wrote:Personally, I would find that hilarious and it's very Toriyama.
They could take Vegeta out early to shock everyone while also having him win the tournament which would be another shock.

Vegeta's fans have been wanting him to have a big win and this could be it. :lol:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kishido » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:42 am

Ok so why isn't Freeza hakaid on the spot by Beerus or why isn't Vegeta or Goku just simply kicking his face in?

BTW I have no doubts that Vegeta will break out of th pot like does with RoSaT

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:57 am

Simere wrote:it was create to seal away Piccolo Daimao—who wasn't actually a demon.
I thought it was explained in Dragon Ball that Piccolo was just so evil it made him a demon. Something about his evilness making his victim's restless spirits or something
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Yomi » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:01 am

sintzu wrote:
HeroR wrote:Personally, I would find that hilarious and it's very Toriyama.
They could take Vegeta out early to shock everyone while also having him win the tournament which would be another shock.

Vegeta's fans have been wanting him to have a big win and this could be it. :lol:

Lol, I wouldn't mind if Vegeta lost this early. It would kinda be annoying if he won; just because the fanbase keeps clamoring for him to win somethin'.

But seeing how Toyataro made the Black Arc the Vegeta Exposition arc, I'm sure he'll be the star of the tournament that everyone is impressed by, when the manga rolls around. Toyataro really does write like a fan first and an author second.
:clap:

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