"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Boo Machine » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:10 pm

hardcorefakes wrote:
Simere wrote:
hardcorefakes wrote: Yeah, ok.

Because that wouldn't be random and horrible writing at all! :lol:

That is so bad I almost wish they write that in.
Learning it exactly the way Goku learned it would be random and horrible? Ok.
I mean, I could write an essay about everything wrong with what you just said, but to summarize:

1. Caulifla and Kale knowing it would be random and out of left field. Them knowing the dance has not been referenced in literally any way, so I'm baffled as to why you'd think that'd be okay. That is not good writing. They didn't even know what a Super Saiyan was; Caulifla and Kale somehow knowing fusion is a hilarious reach.

2. Just because it would be the exact same way as Goku wouldn't make it good. And try not to ignore the context; Goku had reasons for learning it. Caulifla and Kale don't. That you think the two could be compared says it all.
1. And? Not everything has to be forshadowed or hinted at. Sometimes shit can just be a reveal. Previous Series did it all the time. Remember when The time chamber didn't exist until the Cell saga, but no, shut up, it totally exists now? SSJ and Fusion have nothing to do with each other? What even is that comparison?

2.Why though? What context do you have to believe that Metamorans don't exist in Universe 6 and they don't know what they are? Especially for a race of people who travel through space.

Please write that essay, because it's desperately needed right now, because you're reasons for why it would be bad are just assumptions.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Totamo » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:12 pm

HeroR wrote:
Simere wrote:
hardcorefakes wrote: Yeah, ok. in the

Because that wouldn't be random and horrible writing at all! :lol:

That is so bad I almost wish they write that in.
Learning it exactly the way Goku learned it would be random and horrible? Ok.
It's only cool when the main character does it. :D

Although, you could argue that it was 'bad writing' that Goku learned the Fusion Dance off-scene. But I don't really care since I will never get fans' obsession with fusion when fusions have such a terrible performance record. Fusion only got a victory in a non-canon movie, yet people keep treat it as hot shit that can end everything. The same with the Namekians fusion.
What? Gotenks beat super buu and only lost because he got cocky and vegito is the strongest character in the original manga.


And goku was dead for 7 years, he could have learned to spit fire and it would have made sense.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Boo Machine » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:13 pm

Totamo wrote: What? Gotenks beat super buu and only lost because he got cocky and vegito is the strongest character in the original manga.


And goku was dead for 7 years, he could have learned to spit fire and it would have made sense.
Exactly. Goku can get away with anything because of his circumstances. So why can't any other character afford this luxury with their circumstances?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by hardcorefakes » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:14 pm

Totamo wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Totamo wrote:The fusion dance was rare so rare Goku learned it while he was dead, why would i biker gang leader and her timid sidekick know it.
This.

Didn't think it had to be said, but here we are.

Goku was dead, and learned it while training. When, where, and how would Caulifla or Kale meet up with a Metamoran? Furthermore, why would they?

The point with Goku is that it wasn't really a stretch. Whereas with these two, it require a lot of mental gymnastics and headcanons to justify it. Basically creating versions of the characters (and their backstories) in your mind that don't really exist in the show.
Boo Machine wrote: 1. And? Not everything has to be forshadowed or hinted at. Sometimes shit can just be a reveal. Previous Series did it all the time. Remember when The time chamber didn't exist until the Cell saga, but no, shut up, it totally exists now? SSJ and Fusion have nothing to do with each other? What even is that comparison?

2.Why though? What context do you have to believe that Metamorans don't exist in Universe 6 and they don't know what they are? Especially for a race of people who travel through space.
Ever heard of "show, don't tell"? What exactly is wrong with backstories being properly developed?

You can't just introduce knew abilities or concepts to characters without either a proper context or reason. That's just bad writing. Not everything has to be foreshadowed, but something like the Fusion Dance does. Or, at least it has to make sense in context. And neither of those things (foreshadowing, or proper context) apply to Caulifla/Kale.

And I never said that the Metamorans don't exist in U6. Just that it would be supremely stupid if Kale or Caulifla had trained with them. And then it's just brought up one day like nothing.

Furthermore, we have nothing to suggest that Kale or Caulifla travel all over U6; you're ascribing them those backstories yourself.
Last edited by hardcorefakes on Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:15 pm

Xeogran wrote:What if we always had it in front of us?

What if the girl in the OP was not Kale, but actually Kafla? Her angry expression, and it looks like she has two bangs there.. Unless they revamped Kale's personality and design, the opening might have been spoiling that fusion the whole time :shock:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
You might be onto something there... :shock:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Boo Machine » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:18 pm

hardcorefakes wrote:
Totamo wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
This.

Didn't think it had to be said, but here we are.

Goku was dead, and learned it while training. When, where, and how would Caulifla or Kale meet up with a Metamoran? Furthermore, why would they?

The point with Goku is that it wasn't really a stretch. Whereas with these two, it require a lot of mental gymnastics and headcanons to justify it. Basically creating versions of the characters (and their backstories) in your mind that don't really exist in the show.
Because it's a different universe and doesn't follow the same rules as the one we know. That's kind of the whole point. And just because Goku learns it while dead doesn't mean all Metamorans are dead. Goku just so happened to be a in a place where he can meet dead aliens. As are the U6 saiyans or anybody from there since Space travel is a thing. Saiyans go to planets all the time to defend them remember?

It takes just as much head cannon to assume they don't know anything since nothing they've said or done ever gives us an indication that it's the case.

I don't even care why they learn it . I dislike fusion is general. But to just ASSUME that it's this way and no other way, and have the gall to accuse someone else of using head cannon is baffling to me.
Last edited by Boo Machine on Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:19 pm

Also, if Caulifla and Kale may likely fuse, what stops the U6 Namekians from doing the same?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:21 pm

Totamo wrote: What? Gotenks beat super buu and only lost because he got cocky and vegito is the strongest character in the original manga.


And goku was dead for 7 years, he could have learned to spit fire and it would have made sense.
Gotenks lost because his fusion broke before he got the job done. It's like how Golden Freeza lost to Goku in Resurrection 'F' despite being more powerful because his stamina tanked. Close enough only counts in horse shoes. Not to mention, Gotenks' cocky personality is a directly result of the fusion.

Vegito is the strongest character in the manga, and proceeded to do nothing except smack around Buu and get absorbed.

Again, fusion has no victories outside of one movie, it just looks flashy and is powerful, so fans eats it up despite it's horrible record. Seriously, take a drink when a fused character 'almost' win. It's the same reasons why Super Saiyan 3 is mocked.

And we know almost nothing about Cali and Kale, so what do you know about what they should or shouldn't know?
TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:Also, if Caulifla and Kale may likely fuse, what stops the U6 Namekians from doing the same?
Temporary vs permanent.
hardcorefakes wrote: This.

Didn't think it had to be said, but here we are.

Goku was dead, and learned it while training. When, where, and how would Caulifla or Kale meet up with a Metamoran? Furthermore, why would they?

The point with Goku is that it wasn't really a stretch. Whereas with these two, it require a lot of mental gymnastics and headcanons to justify it. Basically creating versions of the characters (and their backstories) in your mind that don't really exist in the show.

So because Goku learned it when he was dead, that's the only way to learned the Fusion Dance despite Dende hearing about it implying that the Metamoran as race still exists in U7 and they're not all dead?

And what do you know about Cali and Kale's personal history to say that they couldn't meet with a Metamoran? The "these two, it require a lot of mental gymnastics and headcanons to justify it" is weird since you're using head canon to say that Cali and Kali never met a Metamoran when you know nothing about their backstory. As far as we know, they could have learned the Fusion Dance at a bar when some random drunk Metamorans danced and accidentally fused with themselves, Cali hunted them down and forced them to teach her, and then she taught Kale.
Last edited by HeroR on Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by SansrivaaL » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:27 pm

People be arguing about how them fusing makes sense vs doesnt make sense and I'm here concerned about how they'll look like when fused, to be precise their top, I mean if its the fusion dance then what the hell happens to the top? anime/drawing or not there are parts that needs to be properly covered for the kids.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Totamo » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:28 pm

HeroR wrote:
Totamo wrote: What? Gotenks beat super buu and only lost because he got cocky and vegito is the strongest character in the original manga.


And goku was dead for 7 years, he could have learned to spit fire and it would have made sense.
Gotenks lost because his fusion broke before he got the job done. It's like how Golden Freeza lost to Goku in Resurrection 'F' despite being more powerful because his stamina tanked. Close enough only counts in horse shoes. Not to mention, Gotenks' cocky personality is a directly result of the fusion.

Vegito is the strongest character in the manga, and proceeded to do nothing except smack around Buu and get absorbed.

Again, fusion has no victories, it just looks flashy and is powerful, so fans eats it up despite it's horrible record. Seriously, take a drink when a fused character 'almost' win. It's the same reasons why Super Saiyan 3 is mocked.

And we know almost nothing about Cali and Kale, so what do you know about what they should or shouldn't know?
What do you count as a victory. The defeated the strongest form of buu then got absorbed on purpose and you damn well, if gotenks was serious, he would have won and even if itis only flashy and powerful, itstill took time to learn, which is the whole point.

we know cali is a biker gang leader and last i check, they don't travel through space and learn ancient techniques.


like i said, super doesn't explain things often, so i don't think we will get one here

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by BlueBasilisk » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:29 pm

HeroR wrote:
Totamo wrote: What? Gotenks beat super buu and only lost because he got cocky and vegito is the strongest character in the original manga.


And goku was dead for 7 years, he could have learned to spit fire and it would have made sense.
Gotenks lost because his fusion broke before he got the job done. It's like how Golden Freeza lost to Goku in Resurrection 'F' despite being more powerful because his stamina tanked. Close enough only counts in horse shoes. Not to mention, Gotenks' cocky personality is a directly result of the fusion.

Vegito is the strongest character in the manga, and proceeded to do nothing except smack around Buu and get absorbed.

Again, fusion has no victories outside of one movie, it just looks flashy and is powerful, so fans eats it up despite it's horrible record. Seriously, take a drink when a fused character 'almost' win. It's the same reasons why Super Saiyan 3 is mocked.

And we know almost nothing about Cali and Kale, so what do you know about what they should or shouldn't know?
TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:Also, if Caulifla and Kale may likely fuse, what stops the U6 Namekians from doing the same?
Temporary vs permanent.
Yeah, and Gotenks spent a ton of time screwing around in that battle because he apparently read up on shonen series tropes during that week of training and decided to play possum and drag things out so the fight would be more interesting and dramatic. Goten and Trunks are both reckless and rather dumb, so putting them together only multiplied that flaw.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Funny how Kale literally hasn't changed anything, good ol Bandai are still marketing OG Broly just like they been doing prior to this arc. Kale hasn't changed a thing, in fact these Saiyan's haven't really changed much either all still Goku and Vegeta driving the merchandising.

And that brings me onto the next point this silly misconception that Broly only popular overseas in the west. There's a set of figures coming out this week in Japan... 2 Vegeta's a Zen-Oh and a.... Broly. Why? They literally have a plethora of chars from this arc alone to pick from including Ms. Homage gone wrong AKA Kale but still OG Broly... And in November he gets another figure under the DBS brand... Sigh.

It feels like Broly has been the 3rd most marketed character since DBS started after Goku and Vegeta... And some people think he's only a problem in the west...
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Simere » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:31 pm

hardcorefakes wrote:This.

Didn't think it had to be said, but here we are.

Goku was dead, and learned it while training. When, where, and how would Caulifla or Kale meet up with a Metamoran? Furthermore, why would they?

The point with Goku is that it wasn't really a stretch. Whereas with these two, it require a lot of mental gymnastics and headcanons to justify it. Basically creating versions of the characters (and their backstories) in your mind that don't really exist in the show.
That one species would meet another species in a universe with interstellar travel wouldn't put my mind in contortions. But you're right. Learning it from them while you're both dead makes far more sense.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:32 pm

HeroR wrote:
TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:Also, if Caulifla and Kale may likely fuse, what stops the U6 Namekians from doing the same?
Temporary vs permanent.
The Namekians are right near Goku and if Goku does show them the fusion dance then they could see it and easily do the same. They could also use the earrings. They are a pair just like Kale and Caulifla are so there is no reason why they can't fuse in a different way to the usual Namekian fusion.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Boo Machine » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:33 pm

hardcorefakes wrote:
Ever heard of "show, don't tell"? What exactly is wrong with backstories being properly developed?

You can't just introduce knew abilities or concepts to characters without either a proper context or reason. That's just bad writing. Not everything has to be foreshadowed, but something like the Fusion Dance does. Or, at least it has to make sense in context. And neither of those things (foreshadowing, or proper context) apply to Caulifla/Kale.

And I never said that the Metamorans don't exist in U6. Just that it would be supremely stupid if Kale or Caulifla had trained with them. And then it's just brought up one day like nothing.

Furthermore, we have nothing to suggest that Kale or Caulifla travel all over U6; you're ascribing them those backstories yourself.
Of course I've heard of "show don't tell" but that isn't meant to be taken as a literal hard and fast rule. "Talking bad, showing good!" That would be silly.

Sure, but fusion is already a thing. There is nothing to introduce. We the audience know what it is, and if U6 happens to know it then it's not out of left field. Especially if Fusion dancing isn't the only method of fusion. Which it isn't. Could be earings. Could be some other bullshit. We don't have enough info to tell, but Mertmoran Fusion is a thing that IS established in this universe lore. We don't need it explained to us.

No one said they had to train with metamorans. Doesn't mean they don't know the concept of fusion exists.

I'm not ascribing Jaaaaaaaaaaaaack shit my friend. I'm just not shutting myself off from possiblities and assuming everything outside my preconception is bullshit.

But who knows! the whole thing could be the dumbest shit ever! But we don't know yet. The episode is so far away I will have nearly killed myself on the halloween candy meant for the local kids. "Sorry little jimmy I don't have any more hershy bars. I ate them all because work is stressful and Classes are killing my sleep!"

There is no point to this premature outrage is what I'm getting at and I just ask that people keep an open mind and not shut everything else out with what little information we have.

Totamo wrote: like i said, super doesn't explain things often, so i don't think we will get one here
Except it does and has. I know people love love love to pretend it doesn't and will often give the very reasonable example of Super saiyan rage. But Super does explain it's shit. Not always. No. I won't deny any of super detractors that. It does have moments where it's just a giant question mark made out of tears and frustration. But that isn't all it is.
Last edited by Boo Machine on Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:36 pm

Totamo wrote: What do you count as a victory. The defeated the strongest form of buu then got absorbed on purpose and you damn well, if gotenks was serious, he would have won and even if itis only flashy and powerful, itstill took time to learn, which is the whole point.

we know cali is a biker gang leader and last i check, they don't travel through space and learn ancient techniques.


like i said, super doesn't explain things often, so i don't think we will get one here
They didn't defeat Buu. Buu was still alive and kicking and later destroyed the Earth. So what defeat are you referring to? Vegeta beat the shit out of Black too, but didn't defeat him, and in fact Black got stronger. Vegetto forfeited his victory to Buu.

Gotenks could have won, he didn't and his careless was later used again him, which is how he got absorbed by Buu. All Gotenks managed to in the end is stall for Gohan. Again, close only counts in horse shoes.

Cali is also a Saiyan warrior whose brother was captain of the Saiyan army that protects the universe. He could have learned it and showed it to Cali or you can used my drunk Metamoran story which is equally possible.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by hardcorefakes » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:43 pm

Boo Machine wrote: Because it's a different universe and doesn't follow the same rules as the one we know.
This is not a good argument.

Different universe =/= Kale and Caulifla can get any power they want with no justification.

Also, it's more "different universe, different events happening" more than "different rules".

The U6 Saiyans are peacekeeping force, but from what we can tell, neither Kale or Caulifla are apart of it, with no indication that they've ever been apart of it. Again, show, don't tell?

Heck, Cabba is apart of this force, and we have more reasons to assume he's met a Metamoran, and yet all evidence (and logic) says he doesn't know the Fusion Dance. That you think the other two could know it....well, I'm not sure how to address that. :eh: There's no real justification for it.

Also, the burden of proof is on you to prove they've done whatever-event, not me to prove they haven't done whatever-event. Absence of evidence is not evidence.

Well, it doesn't matter if you don't care how or why, but it does to others.
Simere wrote:That one species would meet another species in a universe with interstellar travel wouldn't put my mind in contortions. But you're right. Learning it from them while you're both dead makes far more sense.
This post would only make sense if that applied to Kale or Caulifla. But it doesn't, because we've been given no reason to say that it does.

I mean, if anything it takes more leaps of logic to say that Caulifla and Kale have been taught the Fusion Dance somehow, and are only now bringing it out, but hey, if you accept whatever the writers say about Cauli/Kale....whelp. Nothing I say would matter anyways.

So sure, two teenaged girls who run a gang of thugs somehow have been taught the Fusion Dance by Metamorans. Completely logical.
Last edited by hardcorefakes on Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Jigurashi » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:43 pm

Are people really trying to assume Caulifla and Kale can't possibly know the Fusion dance despite not knowing most of their history or the circumstances surrounding it? Like of course it makes no sense they could know fusion if you convince yourself that there's no possible way they could. For all we know, they don't have a damn clue what it is. But it's absolutely laughable to assume that and call bullshit writing when we literally don't know anything beyond info of a provisional title.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Draconic » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:47 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:
Draconic wrote:In other non-Kefla thoughts, I really hope they don't waste Toppo on Vegeta. I mean having the biggest justice delivering guy in the Universe and the biggest scummy villain in the Universe both in the same arena and not taking advantage of that would be criminal.

Freeza vs Toppo would be much more interesting than a battle of the second fiddle.
Frieza will probably end up fighting against Dyspo and will be satisfied beating up a Beerus looklike.
I coincidentaly want Vegeta to beat Dyspo, maybe by even using the same SSG/SSB switcharoo from the manga. So basically, it's all upside down with those guys :lol:
English is not my first language !

My breakdown of the new and old transformations. Hope to update it soon with many others!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Boo Machine » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:50 pm

hardcorefakes wrote:
This is not a good argument.

Different universe =/= Kale and Caulifla can get any power they want with no justification.

Also, it's more "different universe, different events happening" more than "different rules".

The U6 Saiyans are peacekeeping force, but from what we can tell, neither Kale or Caulifla are apart of it, with no indication that they've ever been apart of it. Again, show, don't tell?

Heck, Cabba is apart of this force, and we have more reasons to assume he's met a Metamoran, and yet all evidence (and logic) says he doesn't know the Fusion Dance. That you think the other two could know it....well, I'm not sure how to address that. :eh: There's no real justification for it.

Also, the burden of proof is on you to prove they've done whatever-event, not me to prove they haven't done whatever-event. Absence of evidence is not evidence.

Well, it doesn't matter if you don't care how or why, but it does to others.
it totally is though. It's the best kind of argument. One that argues itself. We know shits different there. And I never said they got new powers nor did I say they were traveling. I just said it was possible for them to have the knowledge that fusion is a thing that exists. What evidence and logic are you talking about when you say they shouldn't know about it, besides they never mentioned it before? Because that isn't evidence, like you said absence of evidence is not evidence.

At the absolute worst we are both way to ignorant to know anything right now. Which I'm totally fine with. It's fine to just not know something.
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