"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Boo Machine » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:21 pm

hardcorefakes wrote: They evolved differently (which is more of events being different than rules being different regardless).

That doesn't mean their "powers" work differently. That goes beyond simple evolution. You're basically telling us to not think about it because they're from a different universe.
Why? How? What is even evolution then? What is life? Where are we right now? Are you real and how is jesus doing today? Am I dead? Yes, that is what I'm telling you. Because it's what the show is telling you. That they are different. We can see it in their appearance in that they have no tail and aren't even aware of the concept of having tails. If they weren't going to be different then why would they bother to mention it? Why mention that something is evolved differently if they are going to be the exact same?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kataphrut » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:26 pm

mfwlegend3 wrote:https://twitter.com/sailorspazz/status/ ... 4573450240
Masako receiving fan mail for her Black voice by fan girls is hilarious. Just shows how well she did with her performance.
Best part of the whole interview :lol:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:29 pm

Here's the entire interview from Herms:

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/9255 ... 69/photo/1
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:07 pm

HeroR wrote:Here's the entire interview from Herms:

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/9255 ... 69/photo/1
It seems as though Toriyama was really going for a different and more radical angle, with not just Goku Black/Zamasu in terms of the type of villainy he would display, but just whole concept of Future Trunks arc was basically a case of Toriyama wanting to dip his toe in uncharted territory when it comes the standard narrative of Dragon Ball story arc. I applaud the ambition. It's a shame that only the anime staff took the concepts of Future Trunks and explored them in more depth and made the most of Zamasu. While Toyotaro played it too damn safe.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:19 pm

hardcorefakes wrote: Sorry, but that excuse is just a lazy way to justify bad writing. And I'm not sure where people are getting this "different universe, different rules" from. When it's more "different events happening" more than anything else. The rules remain internally consistent for the most part. For example, it's not like we have any reason to believe that mastering ki requires a different method in U6 than it does in U7.

It has nothing to do with "bias".
And where do you get that from? Cause I am not sure.
Lore is NOT story, and it never was, and you should stop spreading this nonsense.
Content is NOT substance.
Bunch of characters doing stuff do NOT make an esemble cast.
Secondary characters are secondary, they do NOT deserve or are entitled to having more screen time.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:20 pm

dragon boss z wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: - Merged Zamasu wasn't all that strong in the original draft and two Super Saiyan Blue's(Goku and Vegeta) would have been able to handle him. So basically the anime staff chose to beef up Merged Zamasu's strength, so that beyond his immortality, he was a genuine threat in battle. While Merged Zamasu remained below the realm of SSJB in the manga, as originally intended in Toriyama's plot outline.
It sounds like you are misinterpreting it or maybe you wrote it out wrong. Two SSB could handle him, but he is still above one SSB.
Nope. It's not a misinterpretation. That is literally what Herms translated from the Toriyama/Toyotaro interview. Check it out for yourself.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:23 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: - Merged Zamasu wasn't all that strong in the original draft and two Super Saiyan Blue's(Goku and Vegeta) would have been able to handle him. So basically the anime staff chose to beef up Merged Zamasu's strength, so that beyond his immortality, he was a genuine threat in battle. While Merged Zamasu remained below the realm of SSJB in the manga, as originally intended in Toriyama's plot outline.
It sounds like you are misinterpreting it or maybe you wrote it out wrong. Two SSB could handle him, but he is still above one SSB.
Nope. It's not a misinterpretation. That is literally what Herms translated from the Toriyama/Toyotaro interview. Check it out for yourself.
I don't think you understand what. I said Herms translation says TWO super saiyan blues can beat him not ONE. Yet you are saying he is bellow SSB tier when he is above. Herm's translation is right, you saying fused Zamasu is below SSB is wrong.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:26 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
HeroR wrote:Here's the entire interview from Herms:

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/9255 ... 69/photo/1
It seems as though Toriyama was really going for a different and more radical angle, with not just Goku Black/Zamasu in terms of the type of villainy he would display, but just whole concept of Future Trunks arc was basically a case of Toriyama wanting to dip his toe in uncharted territory when it comes the standard narrative of Dragon Ball story arc. I applaud the ambition. It's a shame that only the anime staff took the concepts of Future Trunks and explored them in more depth and made the most of Zamasu. While Toyotaro played it too damn safe.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Toyo tried to build Zamasu as this tragic figure, but after a few chapters, this was almost dropped to make Zamasu just another Dragon Ball villain, especially Merged Zamasu. That and Toriyama saying 'Zamaus is in his heart as good as Shin' is utterly lost in the manga. Zamasu seemed off his rocker from the jump and the fact that he's triggered just by looking at two powerful mortals fight on Gobtube makes his motives really laughable and pathetic.

In that sense, I think the anime did a much better job at making Zamasu appeared good, including emphasizing that he's pure-hearted and he didn't want to kill mortals at first, just that the gods should stop protecting them. It almost seemed Zamasu could have overcome his demons if given a lot of time and patience, if he never met Goku in an ultimate form of irony since Goku usually brings out the best in people.

As I said in the manga forum, anime Zamasu is basically Lucifer from Paradise Lost. A tragic, pathetic, yet evil person who think they're always right.

With that said, I think Toriyama doesn't give himself enough credit. How he handled Beerus in Battle of Gods show that when he really puts his mind to it, he can make a complex antagonist who is more than 'the ultimate evil that much be defeated'. On paper, Beerus had many of the characteristics of a standard Dragon Ball villain: petty, love destruction, smug, and full of self-important. Yet, Toriyama managed to make a charming antagonist who ended up becoming an ally, while still being petty, love destruction, smug, and full of self-important. I also think he was able to toll this line with Fat Buu and his entire redemption story, as Toyo kind of mentions. So, I think if Toriyama really wanted to, he could make Zamasu far superior than Toyo's version. Not sure about the anime, but because of how well Zamasu was done.
Last edited by HeroR on Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:28 pm

Ah, so Toriyama came up with the portara retcon in the original draft, before Vegetto was even a thing. Wonder if it was to lead to Merged Zamasu's downfall.

Also if you want to see the big difference in characterisation of Zamasu, it's all in the Barbarian scene; just look at his reaction to his first kill in both interpretations.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:30 pm

Kanassa wrote:Ah, so Toriyama came up with the portara retcon in the original draft, before Vegetto was even a thing. Wonder if it was to lead to Merged Zamasu's downfall.

Also if you want to see the big difference in characterisation of Zamasu, it's all in the Barbarian scene; just look at his reaction to his first kill in both interpretations.
I remember writing an essay about the different in that scene on Reddit. The aftermath is also important.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by ArchedThunder » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:53 pm

I can't believe Toriyama's outline said the final battle was Goku vs Merged Zamasu, I'm glad Toei changed that to give Trunks the final fight in the arc named after him.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by perucho1990 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:05 pm

ArchedThunder wrote:I can't believe Toriyama's outline said the final battle was Goku vs Merged Zamasu, I'm glad Toei changed that to give Trunks the final fight in the arc named after him.
While also relegating Goku to side character status but it was for the best, It was Trunks Arc and it makes sense from a story standpoint that he had to fight Merged Zamasu in the Final Showdown.

Also lets give props to Toei for having the damn balls in killing everyone in episode 67, No one said it coming, not even the spoilers mentioned Zamasu getting to kill everyone. I always thought that those 2 kids were going to be adopted by Mai and Trunks.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:17 pm

perucho1990 wrote: While also relegating Goku to side character status but it was for the best, It was Trunks Arc and it makes sense from a story standpoint that he had to fight Merged Zamasu in the Final Showdown.

Also lets give props to Toei for having the damn balls in killing everyone in episode 67, No one said it coming, not even the spoilers mentioned Zamasu getting to kill everyone. I always thought that those 2 kids were going to be adopted by Mai and Trunks.
Goku wasn't a side character in the anime since he's the reason why Zamasu went off the deep end, especially with him seeing Goku as everything that is wrong with mortals. Goku, Trunks, and Vegeta were the main characters of that saga.

Also, Toei had to kill those characters since it was Toriyama will that everyone dies. I honestly wanted the interview to talk about the ending.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kataphrut » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:27 pm

ArchedThunder wrote:I can't believe Toriyama's outline said the final battle was Goku vs Merged Zamasu, I'm glad Toei changed that to give Trunks the final fight in the arc named after him.
Honestly, I think out of the three Toei might have had the best idea for the ending. Toyo was closer to the outline, but the closest thing to a final blow ended up going to Vegeta, who had the least cause out of the main three to get the win.

It also makes more sense that Merged Zamasu would be well above Goku and Vegeta Blue together. After all, Black Rose was more or less on that level, while Zamasu was in a similar ballpark thanks to his immortality. Consider the jump Goku and Vegeta got when they fused against Buu, and Merged Zamasu should utterly dwarf them.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by perucho1990 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:33 pm

HeroR wrote:
Goku wasn't a side character in the anime since he's the reason why Zamasu went off the deep end, especially with him seeing Goku as everything that is wrong with mortals. Goku, Trunks, and Vegeta were the main characters of that saga.

Also, Toei had to kill those characters since it was Toriyama will that everyone dies. I honestly wanted the interview to talk about the ending.
The moment Trunks shows up to fight Merged Zamasu, is when both Goku and Vegeta got relegated to support characters.(Thats what I meant)

They(along with the remaining humans) became Trunks support in helping him reach Genkidama Mode to later 2 shot Merged Zamasu. Toei couldve at least kept those 2 kids alive so Mai and Trunks got to adopt them, it was screwed up the way they got killed. If only episode 67 had ToP level of animation it couldve been the darkest moment in the history of the franchise

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:36 pm

ArchedThunder wrote:I can't believe Toriyama's outline said the final battle was Goku vs Merged Zamasu, I'm glad Toei changed that to give Trunks the final fight in the arc named after him.
It happened that way in the manga so it really shouldn't be that big of a surprise. It seems the manga version is much closer to Toriyama's outline.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TekTheNinja » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:05 am

perucho1990 wrote:The best thing Toei has done is killing the "DBS is the Goku and Vegeta show" meme by having Trunks fight Merged Zamasu in the "Final Showdown". It was Trunks Arc and made sense he was the one fighting Merged Zamasu and not Goku, Toei didnt have a problem making Goku look like a side character.
And that was great, but too bad the ToP treats everyone else as fodder again.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by ArchedThunder » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:17 am

TekTheNinja wrote:
perucho1990 wrote:The best thing Toei has done is killing the "DBS is the Goku and Vegeta show" meme by having Trunks fight Merged Zamasu in the "Final Showdown". It was Trunks Arc and made sense he was the one fighting Merged Zamasu and not Goku, Toei didnt have a problem making Goku look like a side character.
And that was great, but too bad the ToP treats everyone else as fodder again.
Not really, Krillin and Tenshinhan were really the only u7 members that might fit that descriptor. There's certainly too much focus on Goku, that's for sure, but as a whole the other characters are still being treated fairly well, for instance Roshi got some great stuff.
It's lame that 17 and 18 haven't fought anything in months though.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by SansrivaaL » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:04 am

I guess thats why I feel like the manga's more closer to how DB would be than the anime one, the anime pushed Trunks way beyond what he should and would do, he went toe to toe with MZamasu, I kinda hope they went in deep about SSJRage and SSJRose, assuming SSJRage most likely wasnt his idea and was another Toei add with SSJBKK. Toriyama while watching the anime was probably like "woah... whats happening here, why does Trunks have 2 aura's? how's he fighting MZamasu toe to toe... what happened to Goku V MZamasu...*proceeds to call the writters on Toei* Guys... what happened?" joking aside I love how Nozawa got fan letters from girls about her sexy Black voice, she was the best thing in the arc.
Anyways, now all the more reasons to support the manga! while not perfect it still goes out of its way to follow AT's outline, these are the instances that I'm glad we have a manga version of it.
I hope we get an interview about the anime staff and Toriyama soon, and his art of MG Goku.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by MaskedRider » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:13 am

So...when can we expect the next episode of Super to come out?

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