"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Michsi » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:55 am

So I go and come back to "S-Cells" and "Yamoshi". Wow. Yamoshi's story is alright, though I wish he hadn't been righteous. But the S-Cells? I'm glad that not every saiyan can go super, but I wish it would've been because not anyone has ambition/potential, not because of something genetic.

Oh well, looking forward to more lore.


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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:00 am

Ki Breaker wrote:I am quite confused here, his spirit wandered around in search of 6 good Saiyans? How, don't they go to heaven..

How does his spirit know about the six Saiyans thing and why only 6?
Why does his spirit being there make it super Saiyan God?

Berrus sensed his sprit? What..
But Goku transformed into SSG not that guy, how does that work? Especially if vegeta can attain god ki with his own training..
Does that also mean Goku has that guy's spirit inside him, it is said berrus sensed his spirit and confirmed what he sensed earlier was Goku
The only time I remember people not going to the afterlife is when killed by Demons. Kami mentions this during the Piccolo Daimao Arc. Just my theory but it might be related to this.

Pretty sure the six Saiyans is in-reference to him and his 5 companions who attempted the revolution.
Magic? His pure spirit and will allowed him to do it? No idea...

Beerus had a prophetic dream. That by itself doesn't need an explanation because it's literally out of nowhere, all prophecies are.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:02 am

Grimlock wrote:
HeroR wrote:I did rewrite it.

Then I'll just reply with what I already said:
Grimlock wrote:It actually doesn't affect anything regarding to Bardock. You know, Bardock was never meant to be the Legendary Super Saiyan known to Saiyans because... Well, there were no Saiyans to witness his transformation.

All that was revealed here was the name of the Legendary Super Saiyan that is known to Saiyans. Bardock is the one known to Freeza's race. We're still in square one.
This new information doesn't affect Episode of Bardock at all.
Sandubadear wrote:The movie explanation wouldn't fit though (Shenlong says the og SS God actually existed, and fought in planet Vegeta)..
Which means Yamoshi's spirit did find the six righteous Saiyans somehow and one of them is the one we saw in the movie's flashback. There's nothing wrong here.
It does since EOB was always just a 'What If' that never made much sense even before this new information.

The movie explanation doesn't really matter here since Toriyama is using the retelling of Super with the whole Namekian Book of Legend.
Michsi wrote:So I go and come back to "S-Cells" and "Yamoshi". Wow. Yamoshi's story is alright, though I wish he hadn't been righteous. But the S-Cells? I'm glad that not every saiyan can go super, but I wish it would've been because not anyone has ambition/potential, not because of something genetic.

Oh well, looking forward to more lore.
Not to be that guy, but the whole 'ambition/potential' of an individual is more of a western/US idea. Japan and a lot of Asian country tend to believe that one success and failures are also come from the blood. Even anime that plays with this tends to back to bloodline given people certain abilities or destines like One Piece with Luffy.
Last edited by HeroR on Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Sandubadear » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:04 am

Grimlock wrote:
Sandubadear wrote:The movie explanation wouldn't fit though (Shenlong says the og SS God actually existed, and fought in planet Vegeta)..
Which means Yamoshi's spirit did find the six righteous Saiyans somehow and one of them is the one we saw in the movie's flashback. There's nothing wrong here.
The interview would mention if SSG happened once before in planet Vegeta. The movie is not being considered anymore I guess. Toriyama is retconning the movie explanation into Yamoshi's story.
Last edited by Sandubadear on Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:06 am

HeroR wrote:It does since EOB was always just a 'What If' that never made much sense even before this new information.
Being "what-if" is completely irrelevant. The term doesn't bear any significance to what is conflicting or not. It doesn't even have to do with that subject.
HeroR wrote:The movie explanation doesn't really matter here since Toriyama is using the retelling of Super with the whole Namekian Book of Legend.
Toriyama is using both movie and the Dragon Ball Super's piece of information.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:08 am

Grimlock wrote:
HeroR wrote:It does since EOB was always just a 'What If' that never made much sense even before this new information.
Being "what-if" is completely irrelevant. The term doesn't bear any significance to what is conflicting or not. It doesn't even have to do with that subject.
HeroR wrote:The movie explanation doesn't really matter here since Toriyama is using the retelling of Super with the whole Namekian Book of Legend.
Toriyama is using both movie and the Dragon Ball Super's piece of information.
Yes it is since that means that EOB is basically Red Son. Meaning, it doesn't connect to the main story.

He's using mostly the retelling since the retelling tells the same story, except the story came from the Namekian Book of Legend and never mentioned a Super Saiyan God being an actual thing, like in the movie.
Sandubadear wrote:
Grimlock wrote:
Sandubadear wrote:The movie explanation wouldn't fit though (Shenlong says the og SS God actually existed, and fought in planet Vegeta)..
Which means Yamoshi's spirit did find the six righteous Saiyans somehow and one of them is the one we saw in the movie's flashback. There's nothing wrong here.
The interview would mention if SSG happened once before in planet Vegeta. The movie is not being considered anymore I guess. Toriyama is retconning the movie explanation into Yamoshi's story.
The movie got 'retcon' years ago with Super's retelling of it.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:09 am

emperior wrote:I don’t know how to feel about this S-Cell things.
What I and probably most love about Goku is that in the original he wasn't special or born with some special ability that gave him an edge over everyone else, he had to work for everything he got. This kind of takes away from that which I don't like cause "being born special" is something a lot of other shows do and it takes so much away from what the characters accomplish.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by SansrivaaL » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:10 am

I'd honestly prefer this than the tingly back bs, sounds way cooler.
I was always under the impression that Goten got SSJ that fast because of hybrid and that his dad is Goku.
I want to see Yamoshi, his soul is still wandering around right?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by RedHeat » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:11 am

sintzu wrote:
emperior wrote:I don’t know how to feel about this S-Cell things.
What I and probably most love about Goku is that in the original he wasn't special or born with some special ability that gave him an edge over everyone else, he had to work for everything he got. This kind of takes away from that which I don't like cause "being born special" is something a lot of other shows do and it takes so much away from what the characters accomplish.
Well, the interview does mention you have to be strong as well.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:13 am

SansrivaaL wrote:I'd honestly prefer this than the tingly back bs, sounds way cooler.
I was always under the impression that Goten got SSJ that fast because of hybrid and that his dad is Goku.
I want to see Yamoshi, his soul is still wandering around right?
Cabba explained that you need anger to go Super Saiyan the first time and every other time you feel a tingle in your backside before transforming. How did the fandom read that, despite having the freaking subs in their faces:

"You need anger to go Super Saiyan the first time and every other time you feel a tingle in your backside before transform."

Also, Goten got Super Saiyan fast because he was a tailless hybrid, nothing about his dad being Goku. This only adds to that with Goten having a gentle nature and lots of S-Cells.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Michsi » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:14 am

HeroR wrote: Not to be that guy, but the whole 'ambition/potential' of an individual is more of a western/US idea. Japan and a lot of Asian country tend to believe that one success and failures are also come from the blood. Even anime that plays with this tends to back to bloodline given people certain abilities or destines like One Piece with Luffy.
True, but up until now it really did seem like willpower was the main key to it, but I guess this makes the Goten and Trunks situation easier to accept. It's not just the story poking fun at itself anymore.

My fear though is that the midichlorian comparison will spread and spread. Not the biggest Star Wars fan, but I seem to remember that fans absolutely hated that explanation. Toriyama seems to be into Star Wars, and I think he must've liked the prequels (did some art for it, I think)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:16 am

RedHeat wrote:Well, the interview does mention you have to be strong as well.
True but now we know his cells had something to do with it as well. In the Saiyan arc Toriyama made a very clear point about Goku being a nobody who simply broke his back to reach greatness. It's something most people can relate to but this takes some of that away.
SansrivaaL wrote:I want to see Yamoshi, his soul is still wandering around right?
I hope they don't end up saying Goku is really a reincarnation of him and that's how he's able to do what he does.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by SansrivaaL » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:20 am

HeroR wrote:
SansrivaaL wrote:I'd honestly prefer this than the tingly back bs, sounds way cooler.
I was always under the impression that Goten got SSJ that fast because of hybrid and that his dad is Goku.
I want to see Yamoshi, his soul is still wandering around right?
Cabba explained that you need anger to go Super Saiyan the first time and every other time you feel a tingle in your backside before transforming. How did the fandom read that, despite having the freaking subs in their faces:

"You need anger to go Super Saiyan the first time and every other time you feel a tingle in your backside before transform."

Also, Goten got Super Saiyan fast because he was a tailless hybrid, nothing about his dad being Goku. This only adds to that with Goten having a gentle nature and lots of S-Cells.
I already had this debate with you and I'm not about to repeat myself just so you can waste my time again.

About the Goten part, uh yeah, thats what I said, him being a hybrid and he inherited a lot of s cells from his dad, its so simple, why you tryin to start a debate that doesnt change what I said besides you tryng to be literal?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by ArchedThunder » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:21 am

Goku wasn't born special, he raised his S Cell level by being gentle hearted and by getting really strong.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:23 am

Is there anything in that interview about Ssj3 ?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by SansrivaaL » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:23 am

sintzu wrote: I hope they don't end up saying Goku is really a reincarnation of him and that's how he's able to do what he does.
You mean like what happened with Naruto and Sasugay? Hopefully not.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:23 am

Michsi wrote:
HeroR wrote: Not to be that guy, but the whole 'ambition/potential' of an individual is more of a western/US idea. Japan and a lot of Asian country tend to believe that one success and failures are also come from the blood. Even anime that plays with this tends to back to bloodline given people certain abilities or destines like One Piece with Luffy.
True, but up until now it really did seem like willpower was the main key to it, but I guess this makes the Goten and Trunks situation easier to accept. It's not just the story poking fun at itself anymore.

My fear though is that the midichlorian comparison will spread and spread. Not the biggest Star Wars fan, but I seem to remember that fans absolutely hated that explanation. Toriyama seems to be into Star Wars, and I think he must've liked the prequels (did some art for it, I think)
Willpower is needed somewhat since the U6 Saiyans never got Super Saiyan despite meeting all the requirements. It just isn't the main trigger. And Goten and Trunks being enhanced by genetics was always a thing since they got Super Saiyan easily by being hybrids and tailless. Them having a bunch of S-Cells just added to this, that and going up on the nice Earth.

Fans hated the midichlorian explanation because it took away from the 'mystical power' aspect of the Force, which people say like the power of God. Here is how I put it on Reddit:

Like in real life. Something that started out as 'mystic power' becomes 'just a thing' as we learn more about it and how it works. Like the weather was once 'mystic power'.
SansrivaaL wrote: I already had this debate with you and I'm not about to repeat myself just so you can waste my time again.

About the Goten part, uh yeah, thats what I said, him being a hybrid and he inherited a lot of s cells from his dad, its so simple, why you tryin to start a debate that doesnt change what I said besides you tryng to be literal?
I will keep responding simply because I don't like misinformation. If you're going to hate something, at least hate it for the correct reasons.

Toriyama said that Goten 'probably' got a lot of S-Cells from his dad, meaning he left a lot of wiggle room for himself if that turned out not to be the case.
ArchedThunder wrote:Goku wasn't born special, he raised his S Cell level by being gentle hearted and by getting really strong.
Goku is undoubtably special. He specialness, however, didn't come from his parents outside of taking in his mother's gentle heart, which alone isn't enough to become a Super Saiyan.
Last edited by HeroR on Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:26 am

LightBing wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:I am quite confused here, his spirit wandered around in search of 6 good Saiyans? How, don't they go to heaven..

How does his spirit know about the six Saiyans thing and why only 6?
Why does his spirit being there make it super Saiyan God?

Berrus sensed his sprit? What..
But Goku transformed into SSG not that guy, how does that work? Especially if vegeta can attain god ki with his own training..
Does that also mean Goku has that guy's spirit inside him, it is said berrus sensed his spirit and confirmed what he sensed earlier was Goku
The only time I remember people not going to the afterlife is when killed by Demons. Kami mentions this during the Piccolo Daimao Arc. Just my theory but it might be related to this.

Pretty sure the six Saiyans is in-reference to him and his 5 companions who attempted the revolution.
Magic? His pure spirit and will allowed him to do it? No idea...

Beerus had a prophetic dream. That by itself doesn't need an explanation because it's literally out of nowhere, all prophecies are.
But he was Killed by Saiyans.. not demons.. unless we have another lore drop here that people sufficiently bad can be considered demons..

So, his spirit, in spirit form, found 5 Saiyans with him being the 6th and then transformed into SSG somehow? How did he know they gotta pour their hearts into him, and didn't the interview straight up stated he searched for 6 Saiyans, does that mean he possessed one of the Saiyan's body that time..

So, his spirit is still wandering around right? I mean the SSG ritual is still valid so it has to be..
But that leaves how Vegeta attains god ki..
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:27 am

SansrivaaL wrote:
sintzu wrote: I hope they don't end up saying Goku is really a reincarnation of him and that's how he's able to do what he does.
You mean like what happened with Naruto and Sasugay? Hopefully not.
I mean, the SSG ritual happened, berrus sensed that guy's spirit and confirmed this is the SSG he was talking about when he saw Goku..
Everything is pointing towards him being the reincarnation
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