"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

Michsi
I Live Here
Posts: 4557
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:10 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Michsi » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:12 am

Whatever wrote:
Michsi wrote: I honestly don't think the writers/Toriyama think they're doing the character a disservice, and creators in general don't have the same type of attachment to their own characters the way the fans do.
That much is not true and its not even an attachment thing,they are aware when they treat characters badly as shown by the GT interview and even aknowledging Vegeta's bad treatment in the Toei movies.
The writers are grown up adults so they know something that simple,its just that they don't care for some characters and its shown,you can feel the love about Roshi's character in his Top episodes just like you could the feel indifference for Tien in his own spotlight episode.
Not to the extent the fans do, though. Herein lies the difference. GT is a good example, because here we have writers that were indeed aware of how popular Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo etc were yet still chose to set them aside and do their own thing. Most of the time a writer is committed to a story idea that they want to present, not a certain character.

User avatar
namekiansaiyan
I Live Here
Posts: 4358
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:39 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:22 am

HeroR wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
I am actually very positive but I am also very negative at the same time and that is the difference between me and that person you mentioned. While everyone was saying how Krillin, Tien and Roshi would ruin the tournament I was completly positive about them but then I will also be on the negative side of things like Goku taking all the screen time.

I will remember 17, 18, Caulifla, Kale, Ribrianne and Goku for stealing screen time. Vegeta, Gohan, Frieza, Piccolo, Roshi, Tien and Krillin will not be.
Act like it, don't just tell me you're positive. And that isn't you being positive. You cheered for those characters because you liked them and you wanted them to shine. Just like L ike everyone you named, except Tien, and wanted them to do well. Basically, you got what you wanted, so you would be cheerful. Being positive is being positive even when things don't you way.

So I guess you don't have an interview of these directions saying they're 'Android fanboys'.

No matter how much you say it, they didn't steal scene time from your favorites.
I am sure the android comment was months ago and I can't remember where it is said but other people have mentioned it as well.

There is not much to be positive about though is there universe 4 is going in one episode so another surprise turns into nothing and more characters wasted and Piccolo randomly falls off the ring. Stamina seems to be a joke now as seen with Goku. 18 is injured but still able to fight the same. Toppo, Dyspo and Jiren are standing there like idiots while time is running out. Universe 7 are just going through the Universes 1 by 1 which is would never happen in a battle royale.
Michsi wrote:
Whatever wrote:
Michsi wrote: I honestly don't think the writers/Toriyama think they're doing the character a disservice, and creators in general don't have the same type of attachment to their own characters the way the fans do.
That much is not true and its not even an attachment thing,they are aware when they treat characters badly as shown by the GT interview and even aknowledging Vegeta's bad treatment in the Toei movies.
The writers are grown up adults so they know something that simple,its just that they don't care for some characters and its shown,you can feel the love about Roshi's character in his Top episodes just like you could the feel indifference for Tien in his own spotlight episode.
Not to the extent the fans do, though. Herein lies the difference. GT is a good example, because here we have writers that were indeed aware of how popular Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo etc were yet still chose to set them aside and do their own thing. Most of the time a writer is committed to a story idea that they want to present, not a certain character.
The story has to be based around the characters though.

User avatar
TheMikado
I Live Here
Posts: 4982
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:28 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:41 am

namekiansaiyan wrote:
HeroR wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
I am actually very positive but I am also very negative at the same time and that is the difference between me and that person you mentioned. While everyone was saying how Krillin, Tien and Roshi would ruin the tournament I was completly positive about them but then I will also be on the negative side of things like Goku taking all the screen time.

I will remember 17, 18, Caulifla, Kale, Ribrianne and Goku for stealing screen time. Vegeta, Gohan, Frieza, Piccolo, Roshi, Tien and Krillin will not be.
Act like it, don't just tell me you're positive. And that isn't you being positive. You cheered for those characters because you liked them and you wanted them to shine. Just like L ike everyone you named, except Tien, and wanted them to do well. Basically, you got what you wanted, so you would be cheerful. Being positive is being positive even when things don't you way.

So I guess you don't have an interview of these directions saying they're 'Android fanboys'.

No matter how much you say it, they didn't steal scene time from your favorites.
I am sure the android comment was months ago and I can't remember where it is said but other people have mentioned it as well.

There is not much to be positive about though is there universe 4 is going in one episode so another surprise turns into nothing and more characters wasted and Piccolo randomly falls off the ring. Stamina seems to be a joke now as seen with Goku. 18 is injured but still able to fight the same. Toppo, Dyspo and Jiren are standing there like idiots while time is running out. Universe 7 are just going through the Universes 1 by 1 which is would never happen in a battle royale.
Michsi wrote:
Whatever wrote: That much is not true and its not even an attachment thing,they are aware when they treat characters badly as shown by the GT interview and even aknowledging Vegeta's bad treatment in the Toei movies.
The writers are grown up adults so they know something that simple,its just that they don't care for some characters and its shown,you can feel the love about Roshi's character in his Top episodes just like you could the feel indifference for Tien in his own spotlight episode.
Not to the extent the fans do, though. Herein lies the difference. GT is a good example, because here we have writers that were indeed aware of how popular Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo etc were yet still chose to set them aside and do their own thing. Most of the time a writer is committed to a story idea that they want to present, not a certain character.
The story has to be based around the characters though.

Yes and no. The story and characters are intertwined. When talking about a direction you want to go in sitting down and determining which characters are a part of that and why is an important step.
For instance a decision was made to have the ToP. The first step is to determine how many people are participating. Is it just one fighter representing the universe? Is it 3? Or in this case 10.
Once we have that down, lets decide on the fighters and what role they play and what they bring to the table.
I think this is where the writers struggled because ultimately most of the fighters just brought their trademark moves. I really question if a lot of thought went into the exact functions of characters besides Toriyama just wanting them to be in the tournament. The reasoning for Roshi and not Yamcha was sketchy even in-universe so I feel like the writers really couldn't concoct a compelling reason why Roshi was selected in the first place.

So ultimately there is a disconnect between the story (The outline) and how the characters act and response to that story (the script) and likely because the outline and story isn't naturally evolving. The outline is presented and you have to shoehorn the characters into that series of events even when it may not make much sense or fit.

User avatar
namekiansaiyan
I Live Here
Posts: 4358
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:39 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:48 am

TheMikado wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
The story has to be based around the characters though.

Yes and no. The story and characters are intertwined. When talking about a direction you want to go in sitting down and determining which characters are a part of that and why is an important step.
For instance a decision was made to have the ToP. The first step is to determine how many people are participating. Is it just one fighter representing the universe? Is it 3? Or in this case 10.
Once we have that down, lets decide on the fighters and what role they play and what they bring to the table.
I think this is where the writers struggled because ultimately most of the fighters just brought their trademark moves. I really question if a lot of thought went into the exact functions of characters besides Toriyama just wanting them to be in the tournament. The reasoning for Roshi and not Yamcha was sketchy even in-universe so I feel like the writers really couldn't concoct a compelling reason why Roshi was selected in the first place.

So ultimately there is a disconnect between the story (The outline) and how the characters act and response to that story (the script) and likely because the outline and story isn't naturally evolving. The outline is presented and you have to shoehorn the characters into that series of events even when it may not make much sense or fit.
There is lack of creativity from Toriyama and Toei when it comes to characters and how they intereact and fight. There are just to many throwbacks and not enough new material.

There will never be such an open concept again and they wasted so many things that they will never have the chancr to do again.

User avatar
Totamo
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1885
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Totamo » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:54 am

namekiansaiyan wrote:
TheMikado wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
The story has to be based around the characters though.

Yes and no. The story and characters are intertwined. When talking about a direction you want to go in sitting down and determining which characters are a part of that and why is an important step.
For instance a decision was made to have the ToP. The first step is to determine how many people are participating. Is it just one fighter representing the universe? Is it 3? Or in this case 10.
Once we have that down, lets decide on the fighters and what role they play and what they bring to the table.
I think this is where the writers struggled because ultimately most of the fighters just brought their trademark moves. I really question if a lot of thought went into the exact functions of characters besides Toriyama just wanting them to be in the tournament. The reasoning for Roshi and not Yamcha was sketchy even in-universe so I feel like the writers really couldn't concoct a compelling reason why Roshi was selected in the first place.

So ultimately there is a disconnect between the story (The outline) and how the characters act and response to that story (the script) and likely because the outline and story isn't naturally evolving. The outline is presented and you have to shoehorn the characters into that series of events even when it may not make much sense or fit.
There is lack of creativity from Toriyama and Toei when it comes to characters and how they intereact and fight. There are just to many throwbacks and not enough new material.

There will never be such an open concept again and they wasted so many things that they will never have the chancr to do again.
Its cute, you think we won't have another tournament.

Dragon ball had 3.

User avatar
Totamo
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1885
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Totamo » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:56 am

Whatever wrote:
Michsi wrote: I honestly don't think the writers/Toriyama think they're doing the character a disservice, and creators in general don't have the same type of attachment to their own characters the way the fans do.
That much is not true and its not even an attachment thing,they are aware when they treat characters badly as shown by the GT interview and even aknowledging Vegeta's bad treatment in the Toei movies.
The writers are grown up adults so they know something that simple,its just that they don't care for some characters and its shown,you can feel the love about Roshi's character in his Top episodes just like you could the feel indifference for Tien in his own spotlight episode.
Roshi's top episode were great but he was treated like a joke in his recruitment episode and it was arguably the worst one.

User avatar
Ki Breaker
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6572
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:15 am
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:03 am

Really dig this shot right here, there needs to be more of this tiro

Image
The Lord moves in mysterious ways but you don't have to. Please use your blinker

User avatar
namekiansaiyan
I Live Here
Posts: 4358
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:39 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:10 am

Totamo wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:
TheMikado wrote:

Yes and no. The story and characters are intertwined. When talking about a direction you want to go in sitting down and determining which characters are a part of that and why is an important step.
For instance a decision was made to have the ToP. The first step is to determine how many people are participating. Is it just one fighter representing the universe? Is it 3? Or in this case 10.
Once we have that down, lets decide on the fighters and what role they play and what they bring to the table.
I think this is where the writers struggled because ultimately most of the fighters just brought their trademark moves. I really question if a lot of thought went into the exact functions of characters besides Toriyama just wanting them to be in the tournament. The reasoning for Roshi and not Yamcha was sketchy even in-universe so I feel like the writers really couldn't concoct a compelling reason why Roshi was selected in the first place.

So ultimately there is a disconnect between the story (The outline) and how the characters act and response to that story (the script) and likely because the outline and story isn't naturally evolving. The outline is presented and you have to shoehorn the characters into that series of events even when it may not make much sense or fit.
There is lack of creativity from Toriyama and Toei when it comes to characters and how they intereact and fight. There are just to many throwbacks and not enough new material.

There will never be such an open concept again and they wasted so many things that they will never have the chancr to do again.
Its cute, you think we won't have another tournament.

Dragon ball had 3.
I definitely think there will be another but the format will be different which will not be as open as this one.
Ki Breaker wrote:Really dig this shot right here, there needs to be more of this tiro

Image
That picture is exactly how you put me off an episode.

User avatar
Whatever
Regular
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:03 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Whatever » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:10 am

Totamo wrote: Roshi's top episode were great but he was treated like a joke in his recruitment episode and it was arguably the worst one.
Regardless of what you think of the quality of episode 89,Roshi beat up Tien and got praise from Goku.........and that was suposed to be a Tien focused episode mind you.Outside of that he had that nice scene of him visiting Korrin.
Ki Breaker wrote:Really dig this shot right here, there needs to be more of this tiro
Man Yamcha looks great in that shot but where did his scar go?I thought he was not in the tournament.

Michsi
I Live Here
Posts: 4557
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:10 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Michsi » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:24 am

Ki Breaker wrote:Really dig this shot right here, there needs to be more of this tiro

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Gohan looks good here and I hope they keep his eyes this size for good. Making him wear glasses has probably forced them to draw them smaller and with keeping the outline of his eyes closed really hurt his overall design. Never mind that the bang/no bang power-up is kind of silly

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 21389
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:45 am

Whatever wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:Really dig this shot right here, there needs to be more of this tiro
Man Yamcha looks great in that shot but where did his scar go?I thought he was not in the tournament.
Yamcha grew out his hair again to his original style after the Cell arc and it's stayed that way.

DSB
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 366
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:34 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by DSB » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:53 am

namekiansaiyan wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:Really dig this shot right here, there needs to be more of this tiro

Image
That picture is exactly how you put me off an episode.

I said before. LEAVE. You are whining too much. I dare you. DONT WATCH this episode.

Michsi
I Live Here
Posts: 4557
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:10 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Michsi » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:11 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Whatever wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:Really dig this shot right here, there needs to be more of this tiro
Man Yamcha looks great in that shot but where did his scar go?I thought he was not in the tournament.
Yamcha grew out his hair again to his original style after the Cell arc and it's stayed that way.

He had it short in the Buu arc as well. Joke or not, Gohan does then to have hairstyles similar to what Yamcha had donned in the past. The only thing he hasn't imitated yet is the Yamcha's original long hair.

User avatar
Artorias
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:54 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Artorias » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:11 am

Totamo wrote:
Olympian wrote:
Totamo wrote: Don't lie.

If every U7 fighter had one solofight but was then knocked out, you would complain about lack of eliminations or screentime.

If every U7 fighter had ton of eliminations but was then knocked out, you would complain about lack of solofights and screentime.

If every U7 had good screentime but was then knocked out, you would complain about lack of solofights and eliminations.


I know this because this has been the reaction everytime someone from our team lost. Even Roshi was bitched about because he did too much.


People want their characters to do more, but that comes with a cost, other characters will have to do less. This is a monkey paw game and its time to accept that.


You wanted Piccolo to do something, he did. Sorry, it wasn't more, but guess what they could have just had Goku here and said screw off to everyone else. Then something becomes nothing.
No offense but you`re starting to sound as if nothing less than the way the story has been handled would be an impossibility. There`s the adage that you can never please everybody but surely you can try to please fanbases with something more? How many universes are here? How many have been given any spotlight? How many episodes Goku had with just one fight?
I'm not saying its impossible to write this story differently, I'm saying that there is no direction this could have gone that would have satisfied every single fanbase in U7 and flesh out the universes and make them all threatening.


Everytime I ask someone to write a small way they would have done this whole thing while keeping the 80 fighters, 48 minute time limit and battle royale format and satisfy all the fanbases, while keeping the power scale intact and flesh out the universes. They can't do it. they either A knock out all fodder at the beginning, including the humans, B. Have Goku have 3 big fights then fight jiren the whole time or C. Give every U7 one great fight and then knock them out leaving only Goku, Vegeta and Freeza in. All of which people would complain about. When it comes to the universes, they don't even know where to start.
I think this highlights an interesting point though: this tournament was screwed from the start and should've never been attempted, at least not in this format. The best writers in the world would struggle to make this thing work, let alone TOEI and TORIYAMA. There is just no way to write a story like this that satisfies everyone and leaves no loose ends. There's just too many holes to account for.

I sincerely hope that they go back to the traditional "big bad wants to destroy the world/galaxy and we need to stop him", because at least then they could craft a decent narrative. They've attempted TIME TRAVEL and A BATTLE ROYAL, two of the hardest types of stories to write, and Toei/Toriyama are clearly out of their depth with this stuff. Go back to simpler stories.

DSB
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 366
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:34 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by DSB » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:18 am

Artorias wrote:
Totamo wrote:
Olympian wrote:
No offense but you`re starting to sound as if nothing less than the way the story has been handled would be an impossibility. There`s the adage that you can never please everybody but surely you can try to please fanbases with something more? How many universes are here? How many have been given any spotlight? How many episodes Goku had with just one fight?
I'm not saying its impossible to write this story differently, I'm saying that there is no direction this could have gone that would have satisfied every single fanbase in U7 and flesh out the universes and make them all threatening.


Everytime I ask someone to write a small way they would have done this whole thing while keeping the 80 fighters, 48 minute time limit and battle royale format and satisfy all the fanbases, while keeping the power scale intact and flesh out the universes. They can't do it. they either A knock out all fodder at the beginning, including the humans, B. Have Goku have 3 big fights then fight jiren the whole time or C. Give every U7 one great fight and then knock them out leaving only Goku, Vegeta and Freeza in. All of which people would complain about. When it comes to the universes, they don't even know where to start.
I think this highlights an interesting point though: this tournament was screwed from the start and should've never been attempted, at least not in this format. The best writers in the world would struggle to make this thing work, let alone TOEI and TORIYAMA. There is just no way to write a story like this that satisfies everyone and leaves no loose ends. There's just too many holes to account for.

I sincerely hope that they go back to the traditional "big bad wants to destroy the world/galaxy and we need to stop him", because at least then they could craft a decent narrative. They've attempted TIME TRAVEL and A BATTLE ROYAL, two of the hardest types of stories to write, and Toei/Toriyama are clearly out of their depth with this stuff. Go back to simpler stories.
Nicely put. But they arent out of depth. The Time Travel stuffs have been done very well both times. But the Battle Royale format is a different beast. You cant do it like real life where the focus shifts from one person to another very fast. I think they could have seen how WWE does it with their Battle Royale narrative with Royal Rumble and Wargames.

User avatar
Artorias
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:54 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Artorias » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:20 am

namekiansaiyan wrote:/quote]

That picture is exactly how you put me off an episode.
"Man, I really hate when three of the most beloved characters in this show are working together"

What is it with you? Do you only like Piccolo? If so, how did you end up being a fan of this series to begin with? I'm sorry, I'm only being this aggressive because I've noticed you are excessively negative for seemingly no reason all over this topic. You're at the point where you're literally complaining that the three MAIN CHARACTERS of the franchise are going to be the focus of an episode. That's like seeing a Star Wars poster of Luke, Leah, and Han and being like "This is how you put me off a Star Wars movie". Chill, man. Try to have some fun.

Michsi
I Live Here
Posts: 4557
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:10 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Michsi » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:26 am

DSB wrote:
Artorias wrote:
Totamo wrote: I'm not saying its impossible to write this story differently, I'm saying that there is no direction this could have gone that would have satisfied every single fanbase in U7 and flesh out the universes and make them all threatening.


Everytime I ask someone to write a small way they would have done this whole thing while keeping the 80 fighters, 48 minute time limit and battle royale format and satisfy all the fanbases, while keeping the power scale intact and flesh out the universes. They can't do it. they either A knock out all fodder at the beginning, including the humans, B. Have Goku have 3 big fights then fight jiren the whole time or C. Give every U7 one great fight and then knock them out leaving only Goku, Vegeta and Freeza in. All of which people would complain about. When it comes to the universes, they don't even know where to start.
I think this highlights an interesting point though: this tournament was screwed from the start and should've never been attempted, at least not in this format. The best writers in the world would struggle to make this thing work, let alone TOEI and TORIYAMA. There is just no way to write a story like this that satisfies everyone and leaves no loose ends. There's just too many holes to account for.

I sincerely hope that they go back to the traditional "big bad wants to destroy the world/galaxy and we need to stop him", because at least then they could craft a decent narrative. They've attempted TIME TRAVEL and A BATTLE ROYAL, two of the hardest types of stories to write, and Toei/Toriyama are clearly out of their depth with this stuff. Go back to simpler stories.
Nicely put. But they arent out of depth. The Time Travel stuffs have been done very well both times. But the Battle Royale format is a different beast. You cant do it like real life where the focus shifts from one person to another very fast. I think they could have seen how WWE does it with their Battle Royale narrative with Royal Rumble and Wargames.
I would've kept the battle royal idea, but had less teams. Something like U7 vs. U6 vs. U11 vs. U4.
U7 and U6 with their parallels to one another, as well as the chaotic unorganized and individualistic approach to fighting, U11 differentiating itself from the first two by actually having a formation and fighting as a team , and U4 as the schemers to spice things up. Would've chosen a special planet as the fighting ground.
Last edited by Michsi on Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:29 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Artorias
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:54 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Artorias » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:27 am

DSB wrote:
Artorias wrote:
Totamo wrote: I'm not saying its impossible to write this story differently, I'm saying that there is no direction this could have gone that would have satisfied every single fanbase in U7 and flesh out the universes and make them all threatening.


Everytime I ask someone to write a small way they would have done this whole thing while keeping the 80 fighters, 48 minute time limit and battle royale format and satisfy all the fanbases, while keeping the power scale intact and flesh out the universes. They can't do it. they either A knock out all fodder at the beginning, including the humans, B. Have Goku have 3 big fights then fight jiren the whole time or C. Give every U7 one great fight and then knock them out leaving only Goku, Vegeta and Freeza in. All of which people would complain about. When it comes to the universes, they don't even know where to start.
I think this highlights an interesting point though: this tournament was screwed from the start and should've never been attempted, at least not in this format. The best writers in the world would struggle to make this thing work, let alone TOEI and TORIYAMA. There is just no way to write a story like this that satisfies everyone and leaves no loose ends. There's just too many holes to account for.

I sincerely hope that they go back to the traditional "big bad wants to destroy the world/galaxy and we need to stop him", because at least then they could craft a decent narrative. They've attempted TIME TRAVEL and A BATTLE ROYAL, two of the hardest types of stories to write, and Toei/Toriyama are clearly out of their depth with this stuff. Go back to simpler stories.
Nicely put. But they arent out of depth. The Time Travel stuffs have been done very well both times. But the Battle Royale format is a different beast. You cant do it like real life where the focus shifts from one person to another very fast. I think they could have seen how WWE does it with their Battle Royale narrative with Royal Rumble and Wargames.

I massively disagree with you about the time travel. If you think the Cell arc or the FT arc are "done very well" in terms of narrative, then you need to look more deeply into that, because that could not be further from the truth. Those arcs are both fundamentally incompetent on a basic narrative level, as many people have highlighted over the years.
Ki Breaker wrote:Really dig this shot right here, there needs to be more of this tiro

Image
Same. I've always wanted to see Vegeta and Gohan involved in some sort of team up. It seems like Vegeta has always had this weird but cool respect for Gohan. It'd be a totally unconventional yet satisfying combination. Maybe we'll see some of that here?
Last edited by Artorias on Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Totamo
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1885
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Totamo » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:29 am

Artorias wrote:
Totamo wrote:
Olympian wrote:
No offense but you`re starting to sound as if nothing less than the way the story has been handled would be an impossibility. There`s the adage that you can never please everybody but surely you can try to please fanbases with something more? How many universes are here? How many have been given any spotlight? How many episodes Goku had with just one fight?
I'm not saying its impossible to write this story differently, I'm saying that there is no direction this could have gone that would have satisfied every single fanbase in U7 and flesh out the universes and make them all threatening.


Everytime I ask someone to write a small way they would have done this whole thing while keeping the 80 fighters, 48 minute time limit and battle royale format and satisfy all the fanbases, while keeping the power scale intact and flesh out the universes. They can't do it. they either A knock out all fodder at the beginning, including the humans, B. Have Goku have 3 big fights then fight jiren the whole time or C. Give every U7 one great fight and then knock them out leaving only Goku, Vegeta and Freeza in. All of which people would complain about. When it comes to the universes, they don't even know where to start.
I think this highlights an interesting point though: this tournament was screwed from the start and should've never been attempted, at least not in this format. The best writers in the world would struggle to make this thing work, let alone TOEI and TORIYAMA. There is just no way to write a story like this that satisfies everyone and leaves no loose ends. There's just too many holes to account for.

I sincerely hope that they go back to the traditional "big bad wants to destroy the world/galaxy and we need to stop him", because at least then they could craft a decent narrative. They've attempted TIME TRAVEL and A BATTLE ROYAL, two of the hardest types of stories to write, and Toei/Toriyama are clearly out of their depth with this stuff. Go back to simpler stories.
Of course, it was screwed from the start. Any writer would have told you that just by looking at the synopsis. I came into this arc expecting dumb fun and I have gotten that.

If you came into this arc for more, you have screwed yourself.

User avatar
Artorias
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:54 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Artorias » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:34 am

Totamo wrote:
Artorias wrote:
Totamo wrote: I'm not saying its impossible to write this story differently, I'm saying that there is no direction this could have gone that would have satisfied every single fanbase in U7 and flesh out the universes and make them all threatening.


Everytime I ask someone to write a small way they would have done this whole thing while keeping the 80 fighters, 48 minute time limit and battle royale format and satisfy all the fanbases, while keeping the power scale intact and flesh out the universes. They can't do it. they either A knock out all fodder at the beginning, including the humans, B. Have Goku have 3 big fights then fight jiren the whole time or C. Give every U7 one great fight and then knock them out leaving only Goku, Vegeta and Freeza in. All of which people would complain about. When it comes to the universes, they don't even know where to start.
I think this highlights an interesting point though: this tournament was screwed from the start and should've never been attempted, at least not in this format. The best writers in the world would struggle to make this thing work, let alone TOEI and TORIYAMA. There is just no way to write a story like this that satisfies everyone and leaves no loose ends. There's just too many holes to account for.

I sincerely hope that they go back to the traditional "big bad wants to destroy the world/galaxy and we need to stop him", because at least then they could craft a decent narrative. They've attempted TIME TRAVEL and A BATTLE ROYAL, two of the hardest types of stories to write, and Toei/Toriyama are clearly out of their depth with this stuff. Go back to simpler stories.
Of course, it was screwed from the start. Any writer would have told you that just by looking at the synopsis. I came into this arc expecting dumb fun and I have gotten that.

If you came into this arc for more, you have screwed yourself.
Haha, oh no, don't get me wrong, I'm in the same boat as you. I didn't have any expectations in terms of narrative or characters whatsoever for this arc. I just wanted to see cool shit, and I've gotten that in droves. I'm pretty content at the moment. Gotta keep your expectations in check.

Post Reply