"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Michsi]

Has nobody watched Dragon Ball? (The Kid Goku stuff) I ask this because a lot of people complain about Son hogging the spot light when Dragon Ball (Kid Goku stuff) had whole arcs dedicated to nothing but Goku. Does the Red Ribbon Arc not ring a bell for anyone or how about Son Goku being the only viable threat to Demon King Piccolo? So my next question is if "original" Dragon Ball shoved Son Goku down our throats why is it suddenly a problem during GT and Super?
My guess is because folks may not like Son Goku and thus any time he is on screen people bit@h. Is that what it boils down too?

Because back then, the story was framed more as adventure story, so of course it followed the main character around more than the others. In fact, the Pilaf arc made Toriyama realize that Goku's character kinda got overshadowed by the louder and more colorful presence of Bulma, Yamcha and Oolong, so he made them split. Not to mention that Goku's immense strength was more or less part of a joke, that he was this odd, callow, were-monkey boy that could learn ki techniques which took fifty years to master by watching it once. King Piccolo was the first real threat the story ever had, and yeah, he was given exclusively to Goku.
However, this changes once DB takes a clear and definite turn from the adventure genre to straight-up action. The cast gets bigger, Toriyama feels they're good enough to carry the story instead of Goku for long portions of the story, even have them surpass Goku on occasion. Z part of DB is what people love most, and that part was generous in sharing it's screen-time with the other characters.

[sintzu]

If "original" Dragon Ball shoved Son Goku down our throats why is it suddenly a problem during GT and Super?

My guess is because folks may not like Son Goku and thus any time he is on screen people bit@h. Is that what it boils down too?

Because the original DB didn't have characters like Vegeta who could carry an arc (with of course Goku and the others playing a role). The more characters DB introduced, the more we saw it move away from that RRA centric Goku story. We got that with Gohan in the Cell arc and Trunks in the anime's Black arc so there's no reason why it can't work for Vegeta. Vegeta's role in the manga's black arc was similar to what Trunks got in its anime counterpart so I think we're going in the right direction overall but it's taking a long time for some reason.

Not for me. I love Goku and he's my 2nd favorite character and in certain cases my favorite. DB is currently in a place where Vegeta can take over for an arc or 2 like what Sasuke and Jiraya did in Naruto. He was mostly a villain in the manga and only truly became a good guy right at the end so it wouldn't have worked back then given the context of the stories but it can now. If not that then we can have 2 stories playing at the same time, one focused on Goku and the other on Vegeta.

[Hawk9211]

Has nobody watched Dragon Ball? (The Kid Goku stuff) I ask this because a lot of people complain about Son hogging the spot light when Dragon Ball (Kid Goku stuff) had whole arcs dedicated to nothing but Goku. Does the Red Ribbon Arc not ring a bell for anyone or how about Son Goku being the only viable threat to Demon King Piccolo? So my next question is if "original" Dragon Ball shoved Son Goku down our throats why is it suddenly a problem during GT and Super?
My guess is because folks may not like Son Goku and thus any time he is on screen people bit@h. Is that what it boils down too?

Because back then, the story was framed more as adventure story, so of course it followed the main character around more than the others. In fact, the Pilaf arc made Toriyama realize that Goku's character kinda got overshadowed by the louder and more colorful presence of Bulma, Yamcha and Oolong, so he made them split. Not to mention that Goku's immense strength was more or less part of a joke, that he was this odd, callow, were-monkey boy that could learn ki techniques which took fifty years to master by watching it once. King Piccolo was the first real threat the story ever had, and yeah, he was given exclusively to Goku.
However, this changes once DB takes a clear and definite turn from the adventure genre to straight-up action. The cast gets bigger, Toriyama feels they're good enough to carry the story instead of Goku for long portions of the story, even have them surpass Goku on occasion. Z part of DB is what people love most, and that part was generous in sharing it's screen-time with the other characters.

No,og db was not completely about goku.It's true the story revolved around him but the same was true for dbz.Side characters got ample screen time and development.Sometimes,even non important characters like nam and giran.

If "original" Dragon Ball shoved Son Goku down our throats why is it suddenly a problem during GT and Super?

My guess is because folks may not like Son Goku and thus any time he is on screen people bit@h. Is that what it boils down too?

Because the original DB didn't have characters like Vegeta who could carry an arc (with of course Goku and the others playing a role). The more characters DB introduced, the more we saw it move away from that RRA centric Goku story. We got that with Gohan in the Cell arc and Trunks in the anime's Black arc so there's no reason why it can't work for Vegeta. Vegeta's role in the manga's black arc was similar to what Trunks got in its anime counterpart so I think we're going in the right direction overall but it's taking a long time for some reason.

Not for me. I love Goku and he's my 2nd favorite character and in certain cases my favorite. DB is currently in a place where Vegeta can take over for an arc or 2 like what Sasuke and Jiraya did in Naruto. He was mostly a villain in the manga and only truly became a good guy right at the end so it wouldn't have worked back then given the context of the stories but it can now. If not that then we can have 2 stories playing at the same time, one focused on Goku and the other on Vegeta.

Vegeta will still be second fiddle in fights.Can you see him doing something as feet kamehameha,warp kamehameha or learning new techniques and improving them like instant transmission or even solar flare?

[sintzu]

Vegeta will still be second fiddle in fights.Can you see him doing something as feet kamehameha,warp kamehameha or learning new techniques and improving them like instant transmission or even solar flare?

What he does or doesn't do is up to the writers. In the anime's RF retelling it was him who wanted to train and Goku for once followed him, not the other way around like it usually is and like what the movie did.

In the manga's black arc he got black who was the strongest of the 2 villains to himself while Goku got the weaker villain. When Goku couldn't finish off merged Zamasu it was Vegeta who stepped in and gave the final attack before Zeno was called in.

I can't speak for the entire Vegeta fan base but for me personally, I'm very happy with what he's gotten in both versions of Super and the new movies so wanting to see more doesn't mean I don't like what he's gotten so far. The youtube comment section on the other hand...

[Totamo]

Has nobody watched Dragon Ball? (The Kid Goku stuff) I ask this because a lot of people complain about Son hogging the spot light when Dragon Ball (Kid Goku stuff) had whole arcs dedicated to nothing but Goku. Does the Red Ribbon Arc not ring a bell for anyone or how about Son Goku being the only viable threat to Demon King Piccolo? So my next question is if "original" Dragon Ball shoved Son Goku down our throats why is it suddenly a problem during GT and Super?
My guess is because folks may not like Son Goku and thus any time he is on screen people bit@h. Is that what it boils down too?

Because back then, the story was framed more as adventure story, so of course it followed the main character around more than the others. In fact, the Pilaf arc made Toriyama realize that Goku's character kinda got overshadowed by the louder and more colorful presence of Bulma, Yamcha and Oolong, so he made them split. Not to mention that Goku's immense strength was more or less part of a joke, that he was this odd, callow, were-monkey boy that could learn ki techniques which took fifty years to master by watching it once. King Piccolo was the first real threat the story ever had, and yeah, he was given exclusively to Goku.
However, this changes once DB takes a clear and definite turn from the adventure genre to straight-up action. The cast gets bigger, Toriyama feels they're good enough to carry the story instead of Goku for long portions of the story, even have them surpass Goku on occasion. Z part of DB is what people love most, and that part was generous in sharing it's screen-time with the other characters.

Nope. During the red ribbon saga, Toriyama was asked numerous times why he only focused on Goku. Fans complained about it back then as well. Z also got those same complaints as well with the waiting for Goku syndrome. We all know how many feel about GT. Super was called the Goku and Vegeta show up until now.

The point is: This has always been a thing and its not changing now.


Also no, Z is not what people love the most as many fans will tell you ball was better.

[Mercenary]

Has nobody watched Dragon Ball? (The Kid Goku stuff) I ask this because a lot of people complain about Son hogging the spot light when Dragon Ball (Kid Goku stuff) had whole arcs dedicated to nothing but Goku. Does the Red Ribbon Arc not ring a bell for anyone or how about Son Goku being the only viable threat to Demon King Piccolo? So my next question is if "original" Dragon Ball shoved Son Goku down our throats why is it suddenly a problem during GT and Super?
My guess is because folks may not like Son Goku and thus any time he is on screen people bit@h. Is that what it boils down too?

Because back then, the story was framed more as adventure story, so of course it followed the main character around more than the others. In fact, the Pilaf arc made Toriyama realize that Goku's character kinda got overshadowed by the louder and more colorful presence of Bulma, Yamcha and Oolong, so he made them split. Not to mention that Goku's immense strength was more or less part of a joke, that he was this odd, callow, were-monkey boy that could learn ki techniques which took fifty years to master by watching it once. King Piccolo was the first real threat the story ever had, and yeah, he was given exclusively to Goku.
However, this changes once DB takes a clear and definite turn from the adventure genre to straight-up action. The cast gets bigger, Toriyama feels they're good enough to carry the story instead of Goku for long portions of the story, even have them surpass Goku on occasion. Z part of DB is what people love most, and that part was generous in sharing it's screen-time with the other characters.

Nope. During the red ribbon saga, Toriyama was asked numerous times why he only focused on Goku. Fans complained about it back then as well. Z also got those same complaints as well with the waiting for Goku syndrome. We all know how many feel about GT. Super was called the Goku and Vegeta show up until now.

The point is: This has always been a thing and its not changing now.


Also no, Z is not what people love the most as many fans will tell you ball was better.

I don't like Gohan. But even I have to admit (because it's a FACT) that SSJ2 Gohan vs Perfect Cell is probably the most popular fight in the entire DB franchise (judging from the views on YT) and SSJ2 Gohan was the most popular character back in the day. Even more popular than Goku.

So there's no really problem with sidelining Goku and giving the title of the main protagonist to someone else.

It just depends on willingness.

[sintzu]

Super was called the Goku and Vegeta show up until now.

Some are now going back to saying that based on them MAYBE being the final 2 from u7 who'll go up against Jiren.

[Michsi]

No,og db was not completely about goku.It's true the story revolved around him but the same was true for dbz.Side characters got ample screen time and development.Sometimes,even non important characters like nam and giran.

You can't have only Goku all the time, not even in OG DB. You still have moments like Roshi vs. King Piccolo or Tenshinhan vs. Tao Pai Pai, but there is a clear difference between the focus the side characters in got DB compared to Z. Most of the side character moments in DB were during the TB arcs and that had more to do with the format of the tournament. Z had narrative driven arcs in which the side-characters were practically given the leading role for a long periods of time.

Nope. During the red ribbon saga, Toriyama was asked numerous times why he only focused on Goku. Fans complained about it back then as well. Z also got those same complaints as well with the waiting for Goku syndrome. We all know how many feel about GT. Super was called the Goku and Vegeta show up until now.

The point is: This has always been a thing and its not changing now.


Also no, Z is not what people love the most as many fans will tell you ball was better.

There will always be fans complaining about one thing or another, but that wasn't my point. I'm talking about that there is a difference between how the side-character were handled in the earlier part of the story and then later.

Also yes, Z is clearly the favorite. Most people might have a special fondness for OG DB on this site, but if we were to make a large scale poll about which one was liked more, I'm convinced Z would come out on top. There is a reason DBZ is considered a global success , and DB is not.

[HeroR]

Just got this from Herms:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Ki Breaker]

Good thinking Gohan, show them what happens when they try to order ya around..!

[Kishido]

LOL at Gohan

but I'm so pissed how they handle Goku or better Vegeta in the anime...

Goku gets SSBKK, UI, SSG again and now as it seems the mastered Blue form.

Vegeta gets nothing... RoSaT my ass

[TheDipDap1234]

So 17 will paralyze Toppo and will order Gohan to defeat them both. Man, when 18 said 17 and Goku are very similar to one another she wasn't kidding. This is almost the same thing Goku asked Piccolo to do in the fight against Raditz.

[Kataphrut]

Well, at least we know what Gohan, 17 and Toppo are doing now. We know Gohan and Toppo survive, but this sounds like it could be the end for 17.

Gohan hesitating sounds bad, might have to wait and see the scene in context.

[Slaythe]

Well, at least we know what Gohan, 17 and Toppo are doing now. We know Gohan and Toppo survive, but this sounds like it could be the end for 17.

Gohan hesitating sounds bad, might have to wait and see the scene in context.

Doesn't explain what Toppo is doing in 124 though.

[HeroR]

LOL at Gohan

but I'm so pissed how they handle Goku or better Vegeta in the anime...

Goku gets SSBKK, UI, SSG again and now as it seems the mastered Blue form.

Vegeta gets nothing... RoSaT my ass

I highly doubt that is the case. Most likely, Goku his stamina back. And, to nitpick, Goku was the one who discovered Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan in the manga. Vegeta copied him, so even if the anime did give him this form, which I highly doubt, they didn't take anything from Vegeta.

[Kishido]

LOL at Gohan

but I'm so pissed how they handle Goku or better Vegeta in the anime...

Goku gets SSBKK, UI, SSG again and now as it seems the mastered Blue form.

Vegeta gets nothing... RoSaT my ass

I highly doubt that is the case. Most likely, Goku his stamina back. And, to nitpick, Goku was the one who discovered Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan in the manga. Vegeta copied him, so even if the anime did give him this form, which I highly doubt, they didn't take anything from Vegeta.

Of course not but they could give Vegeta something he learned in RoSaT. Instead they gave him nothing.

Ignoring not giving him SSG as well

[Mercenary]

LOL at Gohan

but I'm so pissed how they handle Goku or better Vegeta in the anime...

Goku gets SSBKK, UI, SSG again and now as it seems the mastered Blue form.

Vegeta gets nothing... RoSaT my ass

I highly doubt that is the case. Most likely, Goku his stamina back. And, to nitpick, Goku was the one who discovered Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan in the manga. Vegeta copied him, so even if the anime did give him this form, which I highly doubt, they didn't take anything from Vegeta.

Of course not but they could give Vegeta something he learned in RoSaT. Instead they gave him nothing.

Ignoring not giving him SSG as well

Toei clearly dislikes Vegeta. Toyotaro givs him a much better showing.

[HeroR]

Of course not but they could give Vegeta something he learned in RoSaT. Instead they gave him nothing.

Ignoring not giving him SSG as well

Vegeta was only in the time chamber for 15 days. I'm not sure why fans keep acting like he spent a year in there.

And the anime not ignoring anything since Vegeta even getting Super Saiyan God was Toyo's idea and Toei doesn't have to used it.

Toei clearly dislikes Vegeta. Toyotaro givs him a much better showing.

So all the writers and directors that worked at Toei all just happens to hate Vegeta? I remembered when fans called Super a Vegeta wankfest who dumbed down Goku.

[Xeogran]

If Gohan is the cause for 17's elimination, it will be hard to forgive him.

Seems like Toppo could be taken down right here, but Gohan's hestitation only made things worse (probably leaving 17 injuried and Toppo free)

The fact he abandons him to help Freeza is weird too, so maybe 17 will be eliminated by then already...

Gohan...

[Cetra]

Hah, classic Vegeta.

Or as Broly says.

So it's true: You are all talk and no action.