"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Nickolaidas]

I'm pretty sure Vegeta's cool moment was beating Toppo.

[HeroR]

I'm pretty sure Vegeta's cool moment was beating Toppo.

He said he wrote a cool scene with Vegeta, and he didn't write Vegeta vs Toppo. And it was 'cool' in the character sense. It isn't just about getting the biggest knockout.

[sintzu]

Why? No one wants to watched a show wit them.

The vast majority of people do.

What 'vast majority'.

A handful who probably won't even watch it if it happens. The only way something that different can work is if it's a limited 12-24 episode special and even then it might not.

DB is and always will be Goku (and Vegeta).

[Lionel]

Dragon Ball is about Goku and Vegeta, true, but it doesn't seem to want to completely give up the "relics". If the people over at Toei feel like the series can stand on its own without needing to drudge up old familiar faces then I say they should phase out everyone except the two Saiyans -- take some inspiration from GT, only Vegeta is in the fortunate position of being able to siphon off some of the excess fat and grease that Goku has with being the centremost figure of it all.

[Lord Beerus]

Episode 122: "I can never throw away what I am. Kakarot can have his Ultra Instinct. I'll defeat you in my own way, Jiren!"
Episode 123: "I have to keep my promise to him! I'll surpass my limits in my own way! And Jiren, I'll beat you!"
Episode 126: "I'm not like you! I cast aside nothing!"
Episode 128: "You wouldn't understand what it's like to protect something!"

Though today's speech wasn't exactly the same as the other ones, it was retreading the same ground. We fucking get it. Vegeta stays true to himself and gains great power through the bonds he has. We don't need the same narrative beat hammered down our heads four times. They even use the same theme every time.

Yep, different dialogue is each one.

"I'll defeat you in my own way, Jiren"
"I'll surpass my limits in my own way! And Jiren, I'll beat you"

"I can never throw away what I am!"
"I'm not like you! I cast aside nothing!"

How are they different? They all serve the exact same purpose. They're redundant.

Each of those speeches have subtle differences not to mention the context of how they appear don't share all the same similarities though.

Vegeta starts of by saying what he believes in, which is never throwing away your pride as a Saiyan, while disregarding his intention of following in Goku footsteps and remaking that he'll defeat Jiren through his own method, displaying that he doesn't need to have what Goku has to do what he needs to do.

Then he brings up what motivates him, how he's going to become stronger, while reassuring what he'll do with that power.

And then in the battle of ideologies against Hakaishin Toppo, the contrast to Toppo throwing everything away that he stood for in the process of becoming stronger, results in Vegeta proving the contrasting statement to drive how much the standing by the context of their beliefs makes a difference in their battle, with Vegeta becoming stronger while retaining what he held dear to him.

And then finally we have Vegeta stating that is doesn't matter if he's defeated, so as long Universe 7 wins. The additional comment of his reasserting what drives him to keep on fighting (have something to protect) even when he knows he can't win against Jiren, drives home the point of him wanting to ensure the survival of Universe 7.

It's honestly just seems like a complaint for the sake of complaining.

[Kanassa]

I'm pretty sure Vegeta's cool moment was beating Toppo.

He said he wrote a cool scene with Vegeta, and he didn't write Vegeta vs Toppo. And it was 'cool' in the character sense. It isn't just about getting the biggest knockout.

Seriously, a moment doesn't have to be victorious or badass for it to be a cool moment for a character. The simple act of struggling forward no matter how outmatched they are is cool enough.

"I never wanted you to beat a monster, I wanted you to stand up to one"

[StardustCrusaderX]

Alright, so I watched the last episode before I went to sleep last night and I found it ok. However, when come I to the kanzenshuu this morning what do I find? About 6 to 7 pages worth of complaints and vegeta haters having fun. Sheesh and some of you call yourselves fans.

[Kaiosama]

Honestly the continuous attacks against Toshio for how Vegeta was written has gone too far. I can't believe how bad it's gotten. Not a good look for Vegeta fans. Leave the man alone!

[jeffbr92]

Twitter can be really toxic sometimes, Super staff should avoid having it.

[Totamo]

You know what to know why Goku gets things because he actually wants them and works for them and eats dirt for them and Vegeta gets all of the shit Goku gets offscreen probably with much less effort.

Name a single period of time, that lasted longer than a day in which Vegeta did something other than training, fighting, space traveling to a battlefield or recovering serious injury from a fight or training, except for a couple of days when he waited for the birth of Bulla. This complaint would be valid if Gohan kept closing the gap, oh wait.

While you're at it, you might also want to name a single Saga since the Saiyan arc, that did not involve Vegeta going all out in his fights until the (always) bitter end, just so we can make a proper dirt eating comparison. Seriously, if you were to device a writing-generosity-index, that goes something like (power_growth_index)/(training_intensity_index*dirt_eating_index), you'd realize that your argument here is baseless to the point of ludicrous.

The writing does favor Goku and every Vegeta fan that does not rage three out of four weeks has come to terms with that but please do not pretend that this is grounded in anything other than "We favor Goku because we favor Goku."

Oh this is going to be fun by the way we are not counting Super.


He was hitting and running on namek the entire time until Zarbon kicked his ass and even after Ginyu Force showed up. In the Buu saga, he was dead for a good bit and that was 2 days.


But most importantly, lets talk Vegeta's so called eating dirt even though he goes all out. He killed cui, dordoria, beat Zarbon before he transformed, then he kills zarbon, he kills guido, then he gets beaten by recome, gets a powerup and defeats Jeice, then beats Ginyu in Goku's body then he like everyone else gets beaten by Freeza.

In The cell saga, He gets super saiyan offscreen, then he kills 19, he attacks 18 and gets defeated, he then goes in and trains, defeats semi perfect, then gets crushed by perfect Cell. He then trains and is one of the only 2 people to stand up to the Cell jrs.

In the buu saga, he defeats Pui Pui with ease, defeats Goku by cheaptshotting and blows himself up against Buu, he then returns and gets defeated by super buu and is the one buying time for Goku to charge the spirit bomb.



Now when laid out like this, Vegeta is not eating dirt, he is eating karma because all of this was his own fault. He allowed Zarbon to transform, he refused to allow Gohan and Krillin to help him, he attacked 18 when she didn't attack him, he allows cell to go perfect and he is the entire reason Buu was revived.He gets punished for his stupidity just like Goku did in the Cell saga.


Not to mention he only trained for one saga where he got all this power, he abuses his biology on namek and sells his soul in the Buu saga. He only trained in the Cell saga but hit a plateau because he refuse to train intelligently. Goku trained in every saga and on namek when he got his one zenkai boost, that was Vegeta's fault for ditching him against Ginyu and doing most of the damage to his body.

Vegeta really did exist in Z to make things worse at times and unlike Goku, he never had a plan to fix it. Goku's plans are stupid too but at least he took the hit for it when it didn't work.

Vegeta's redemption arc is arguably the best in shonen and i love the character which is why I'm grateful Super even has him around and even dedicates episodes to him, but his fans make me wish they did go GT route and not kept him in the show at all especially when compared to everyone else bar Goku, he gets the most screentime and moments.

[OverHeaven]

No matter how much I'd hate something in DBS, attacking the one responsible for it personally/threaten them is out of the question. What can we say, there exists people whom their entire life purpose is to watch cartoons and fanboys about it. I bet the episode ruined some fans' month already.

Also, "cool" moment doesn't exactly mean it's action based and that he'll deal some damage. And varies from one's perspective to another.
You can say it's stupid, but many think Vegeta's determination and remembering his family is a cool moment.

[Kinokima]

Honestly the continuous attacks against Toshio for how Vegeta was written has gone too far. I can't believe how bad it's gotten. Not a good look for Vegeta fans. Leave the man alone!

Yeah a handful of Vegeta fans and those people should be called out for their bad behavior (which I actually took the time to do to at least one of those negative tweets) instead of stereotyping all Vegeta fans.


Most posts on that thread are positive and the majority of those positive tweets are also from Vegeta fans.

Anyways I love Toshio and I hate seeing anyone attack him on his twitter. As I said over there it’s rude and embarrassing.

[MajinVegetaPD]

Honestly the continuous attacks against Toshio for how Vegeta was written has gone too far. I can't believe how bad it's gotten. Not a good look for Vegeta fans. Leave the man alone!

Not for nothing, but Toshio set himself up for that one. You can't brag about a beloved character to many having a "cool moment", only for said fans to have to put up with another Kid Buu style beatdown. That doesn't qualify as "cool" or "entertaining" to them at all. He should have had the foresight to see that. This isn't the 90's after all.

[MajinVegetaPD]

Next series both Goku/Vegeta need to be retired permanently to mentor positions. Time to focus on Gohan, Trunks, Goten, Pan and Uub.

Why? No one wants to watched a show wit them.

The vast majority of people do.

Think you meant to say minority there. Those characters are bland and no one cares about them. You can always rewatch GT if you like suffering.

[HeroR]

Honestly the continuous attacks against Toshio for how Vegeta was written has gone too far. I can't believe how bad it's gotten. Not a good look for Vegeta fans. Leave the man alone!

Not for nothing, but Toshio set himself up for that one. You can't brag about a beloved character to many having a "cool moment", only for said fans to have to put up with another Kid Buu style beatdown. That doesn't qualify as "cool" or "entertaining" to them at all. He should have had the foresight to see that. This isn't the 90's after all.

Cool is subjective and for many it was cool since Vegeta fought to the bitter end for what he believed in. It's basically a Rocky moment. And 'this isn't the 90s' has nothing to do with it.

You're free to think of Vegeta was cool or not, but it was hardly a Tien moment.

[precita]

What on earth did people expect for Vegeta at this point? People are angry that Jiren beat him up? I mean the whole concept is so utterly ridiculous I don't see what the hell people are complaining about.

Are these people for real?

[Torturephile]

What on earth did people expect for Vegeta at this point? People are angry that Jiren beat him up? I mean the whole concept is so utterly ridiculous I don't see what the hell people are complaining about.

Are these people for real?

His elimination broke the second hump on the camel's back. The first hump was broken after Gohan's elimination.

[MajinVegetaPD]

What on earth did people expect for Vegeta at this point? People are angry that Jiren beat him up? I mean the whole concept is so utterly ridiculous I don't see what the hell people are complaining about.

Are these people for real?

Again, what people didn't expect or didn't want was a rehash of the Kid Buu saga. The only thing that is utterly ridiculous has been the non original handling of the past few episodes.

It would have been preferable to just have Vegeta go in 126.

[Kanassa]

Honestly the continuous attacks against Toshio for how Vegeta was written has gone too far. I can't believe how bad it's gotten. Not a good look for Vegeta fans. Leave the man alone!

Not for nothing, but Toshio set himself up for that one. You can't brag about a beloved character to many having a "cool moment", only for said fans to have to put up with another Kid Buu style beatdown. That doesn't qualify as "cool" or "entertaining" to them at all. He should have had the foresight to see that. This isn't the 90's after all.

Cool is subjective and for many it was cool since Vegeta fought to the bitter end for what he believed in. It's basically a Rocky moment. And 'this isn't the 90s' has nothing to do with it.

You're free to think of Vegeta was cool or not, but it was hardly a Tien moment.

How long till the fanart of Vegeta going "ADRIAAAAAAAN!?"

[HeroR]

Not for nothing, but Toshio set himself up for that one. You can't brag about a beloved character to many having a "cool moment", only for said fans to have to put up with another Kid Buu style beatdown. That doesn't qualify as "cool" or "entertaining" to them at all. He should have had the foresight to see that. This isn't the 90's after all.

Cool is subjective and for many it was cool since Vegeta fought to the bitter end for what he believed in. It's basically a Rocky moment. And 'this isn't the 90s' has nothing to do with it.

You're free to think of Vegeta was cool or not, but it was hardly a Tien moment.

How long till the fanart of Vegeta going "ADRIAAAAAAAN!?"

Personally, Vegeta's beatdown reminds me more of Apollo from Rock IV.