"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by kn83 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:25 pm

Vegeta_Sama wrote:
kn83 wrote:
Vegeta_Sama wrote: What you said would make perfect sense if one of the the defining features of Jiren wasn't his sense of justice. I'm sorry, but seeign someone with the morals of Superman , talk/act lke a jerk is jarring
That's a stupid argument. Being a hero/good guy doesn't (necessarily) mean being nice and friendly. Batman is a total asshole yet is obviously all about justice in most incarnations. Asshole heroes are pretty common. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... dIsNotNice
Not really. Batman has to put on a fake persona in order to scare his enemies, and make them fear him, so of course he's gonna be a bit of an asshole. That's totally different from Jiren , who is just himself. He doesn't need to hide his identity.
That doesn't change the fact that Batman/Bruce Wayne is still an asshole even to his fellow Justice League members that know him personally.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:27 pm

TheRed259 wrote:What bothers me the most is not Freeza's possible victory but the fact that they thought we were stupid enough to forget that Freeza was still in the ring!
Maybe because this show main target audience isn't adults.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:28 pm

kn83 wrote:
Vegeta_Sama wrote:
kn83 wrote:
That's a stupid argument. Being a hero/good guy doesn't (necessarily) mean being nice and friendly. Batman is a total asshole yet is obviously all about justice in most incarnations. Asshole heroes are pretty common. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... dIsNotNice
Not really. Batman has to put on a fake persona in order to scare his enemies, and make them fear him, so of course he's gonna be a bit of an asshole. That's totally different from Jiren , who is just himself. He doesn't need to hide his identity.
That doesn't change the fact that Batman/Bruce Wayne is still an asshole even to his fellow Justice League that know him personally.
That's not necessarily true. Batman's behaviour towards peoole is up to the writers. We had so many interpretations that it's hard to define how Batman really is and how he acts. At this point, it's up to personal interpretation.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Helios518 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:29 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
TheRed259 wrote:What bothers me the most is not Freeza's possible victory but the fact that they thought we were stupid enough to forget that Freeza was still in the ring!
Maybe because this show main target audience isn't adults.
True, but they could've have it achieved the same goal much better by having Freeza not return until 131 after Toppo wrecked him.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by kn83 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:31 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
TheRed259 wrote:What bothers me the most is not Freeza's possible victory but the fact that they thought we were stupid enough to forget that Freeza was still in the ring!
Maybe because this show main target audience isn't adults.
Children are not stupid, most of them could see this "twist" coming a mile away.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by kn83 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:32 pm

Vegeta_Sama wrote:
kn83 wrote:
Vegeta_Sama wrote: Not really. Batman has to put on a fake persona in order to scare his enemies, and make them fear him, so of course he's gonna be a bit of an asshole. That's totally different from Jiren , who is just himself. He doesn't need to hide his identity.
That doesn't change the fact that Batman/Bruce Wayne is still an asshole even to his fellow Justice League that know him personally.
That's not necessarily true. Batman's behaviour towards peoole is up to the writers. We had so many interpretations that it's hard to define how Batman really is and how he acts. At this point, it's up to personal interpretation.
Actions speak louder than words. If you act like an asshole on a regular basis then you are basically an asshole.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:34 pm

kn83 wrote:
Vegeta_Sama wrote:
kn83 wrote:
That doesn't change the fact that Batman/Bruce Wayne is still an asshole even to his fellow Justice League that know him personally.
That's not necessarily true. Batman's behaviour towards peoole is up to the writers. We had so many interpretations that it's hard to define how Batman really is and how he acts. At this point, it's up to personal interpretation.
Actions speak louder than words. If you act like an asshole on a regular basis then you are basically an asshole.
Batman was nice to at least Superman and to Catwoman last time I checked (I haven't been reading regularly in a while) , so at least he's nice to some of his friends. The same can't be said for Jiren
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by GamerSkull » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:38 pm

I think the different between Batman and Jiren is that the former's "asshole-ishness" is ingrained into his story and makes sense as far as his character is concerned and the stories that are told with him. Batman is an asshole, but he has a reason to be, and that reason is usually explored in a lot of stories concerning him.

But with Jiren, he's basically portrayed as an asshole for the sole reason that he's Goku's opponent. Nothing more. He might have a reason to be that way because of his crap backstory, but the fact that he's an asshole actually doesn't do much for the development of his character or the story being told that he's part of. He's just Asshole Opponent #1000 as far as this series is concerned.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by GamerSkull » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:40 pm

Vegeta_Sama wrote:
kn83 wrote:
Vegeta_Sama wrote: That's not necessarily true. Batman's behaviour towards peoole is up to the writers. We had so many interpretations that it's hard to define how Batman really is and how he acts. At this point, it's up to personal interpretation.
Actions speak louder than words. If you act like an asshole on a regular basis then you are basically an asshole.
Batman was nice to at least Superman and to Catwoman last time I checked (I haven't been reading regularly in a while) , so at least he's nice to some of his friends. The same can't be said for Jiren
Actually, Batman is pretty much an asshole to a lot of his friends... but it is often a nuance that explored in the relationship dynamics and it actually adds to the story... whereas Jiren just seems to be the way he is because he's Goku's opponent.

It's also pretty clear that Batman is only an asshole as a sort of defense mechanism or just that he's always a cynical person.

I guess the point I'm making is that it's okay for characters to be assholes, whether they are good or evil, if it actually adds to the story. And I don't think Jiren's personality does anything of the sort. He's way too generic. And a generic villain as the final boss is really bad... let alone the fact that it seems he might actually be winning according to the spoilers, which is much worse.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Shounen » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:59 pm

TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:
TheRed259 wrote:What bothers me the most is not Freeza's possible victory but the fact that they thought we were stupid enough to forget that Freeza was still in the ring!
I think they were betting on the target demographic for the show (which are kids) to forget. But not us tho :lol:
Some "true fans" have forgotten why only eight universes fighting and mistaken the gods in the stands, so...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by GamerSkull » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:03 pm

Shounen wrote:
TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:
TheRed259 wrote:What bothers me the most is not Freeza's possible victory but the fact that they thought we were stupid enough to forget that Freeza was still in the ring!
I think they were betting on the target demographic for the show (which are kids) to forget. But not us tho :lol:
Some "true fans" have forgotten why only eight universes fighting and mistaken the gods in the stands, so...
Yeah, but that isn't as prominent as Freeza's participation in the tournament. The eight universes has only been mentioned perhaps a handful of times and so it makes sense that some might be a bit confused about that. Freeza's presence was shown in basically every episode except for the last couple.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TheOtherDude » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:33 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
TheRed259 wrote:What bothers me the most is not Freeza's possible victory but the fact that they thought we were stupid enough to forget that Freeza was still in the ring!
Maybe because this show main target audience isn't adults.
That’s not true at all.

When I was 10 years old, I always questioned why Goku was able to beat Pikkon when Pikkon took out Cell like he was nothing. It made no sense to me that Goku could do something like that when He just lost to Cell.

The only difference between now and then is that it didn’t bother me as much as it does now. I just brushed it off and kept watching.

I was 10. I guarantee you I was in the targeted age group. They notice these things.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:38 pm

TheOtherDude wrote: I was 10. I guarantee you I was in the targeted age group. They notice these things.
I also was a kid before. I wasn't saying they are stupid, but let's not act like adults are the ones Toei wants to impress here.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TheOtherDude » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:05 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
TheOtherDude wrote: I was 10. I guarantee you I was in the targeted age group. They notice these things.
I also was a kid before. I wasn't saying they are stupid, but let's not act like adults are the ones Toei wants to impress here.
Yeah they’re not coming after us. But they’re trying to make it seem like there will be a big revelation that Frieza is still in the fight. I don’t think many (if any) kids who are 10 and up will just completely forget about the fact Frieza is still in there.

I guess from an in-universe approach, it’d be easy to forget all about Frieza being there amongst all the action. But even then that’s a stretch.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:07 pm

Glen300 wrote:https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/9742 ... 15969?s=20

Latest spoilers from Herms, nothing new but it seems more definitive that Goku will be eliminated.
Quite disappointed that Toriyama wants Goku to be a Ash Ketchum in Dragon Ball. What the hell is MVP? Also the only way I can buy Freeza defeating Jiren is that Goku wrecked him real good before losing.
FortuneSSJ wrote: also was a kid before. I wasn't saying they are stupid, but let's not act like adults are the ones Toei wants to impress here.
That doesn't mean Toei couldn't be smart and make a show to target both audiences (new fans and old ones), even though it's a children cartoon, that doesn't mean kids these day are not fond of consistency.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by MajinMan » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:18 pm

Why do people assume that Toei thinks we’re stupid enough to forget Freeza if they don’t show him? What if they expect us to go, “Wait, Freeza’s still in the ring. I wonder what he’s going to do.”
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:24 pm

jeffbr92 wrote: That doesn't mean Toei couldn't be smart and make a show to target both audiences (new fans and old ones), even though it's a children cartoon, that doesn't mean kids these day are not fond of consistency.
DBS brand is a success, so maybe they aren't. As long as Dragon Ball keeps being entertaining, most people won't care about those details.
Complaining about lack of consistency is not as fun as tune in to watch the next episode.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by OverHeaven » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:57 pm

MajinMan wrote:Why do people assume that Toei thinks we’re stupid enough to forget Freeza if they don’t show him? What if they expect us to go, “Wait, Freeza’s still in the ring. I wonder what he’s going to do.”
1-They purposely didn't show or mention his icon when they showed Zeno looking at Goku and Jiren icons on the GodPad. (Let's say the others forgot Frieza being there amongst all the action, what about Zeno who MUST have seen it?).
If what you say was the case, they could've shown the GodPan instead of his real body but they clearly want us to forget about him, and not wonder what he is going to do.

2-Old spoilers clearly stated that ONLY Jiren and Goku remain in the arena as a fact which is straight BS


The number of remaining people is a very important factor in determining the victor and it makes no sense for them to just simply ignore it this whole time. Especially for Universe 7.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by darzap » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:06 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:DBS brand is a success, so maybe they aren't. As long as Dragon Ball keeps being entertaining, most people won't care about those details.
Complaining about lack of consistency is not as fun as tune in to watch the next episode.
Lol, that's straight apologetics for mediocrity. Dragon Ball is entertaining, I still care. By that logic, nobody who would still rather live his normal life than organizing a social movement to push for reelections should criticize the government. A show that used to be so original that it got people attached to its characters can live off that for quite some time, so I suppose they shouldn't care about the quality at all?

Also, the writing flaws of Super are not details. Compared to other popular stories with writers that cared (such as LotR or Harry Potter, even though those are more complex by orders of magnitude) Super is so inconsistent and reliant on Deus Ex Machina, it's not even funny.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by kn83 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:48 pm

MajinMan wrote:Why do people assume that Toei thinks we’re stupid enough to forget Freeza if they don’t show him? What if they expect us to go, “Wait, Freeza’s still in the ring. I wonder what he’s going to do.”
This. I think surprise is not that he is still there, its what he is gonna do and how it connects to the movie.

After all, they already spoiled that Frieza will make his move in the last episode.

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