TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:
I think they were betting on the target demographic for the show (which are kids) to forget. But not us tho
Are you serious? This is a simple thing even for kids to understand and is very obvious. Why some of you always talk as if kids are complete morons who understand nothing lol. At least I know I and my friends were watching more complicated stuff when I was a kid, with blood too (shonen level, not too much).
We're talking about kids let's say 10-14 years old or something, right? not 6 y.o
Hmm, dunno who you are talking to here , as *I* definitely never said or implied kids are incompetent morons. I said, they (as in Toei) were betting on the kids watching (them being 12 or younger, as 13-14 are the beginning of teenage years and teenagers aren't "kids") forgetting Freeza was there and not necessarily caring about adults' perception of the show. Which, by all means, would be a pretty stupid bet on Toei's part. I don't necessarily appreciate at times how the writing insults the intelligence of the viewing audience, don't get me wrong, but it's not as if Toei necessarily cares as much about any age outside of the target demographic and the money that's coming in.
Usopp: It's not over yet, is it? No matter what, no matter the peril, you've always sprung back! You'll definitely be able to defeat Lucci! I believe in you! So get up, Luffy!
Lucci: Impossible! You shouldn't have any more stamina!
Luffy: Lucci, it ain't over yet!
Lucci: How? How can you stand after being beaten so many times, Monkey D. Luffy?!
Luffy: Robin and Sogeking, and everyone else are trustin' me. I swear on that faith I can never back down now!
Sakura: Naruto isn't fighting only for himself. It's because he's bearing our hopes too.
Kakashi: Sakura's right. Naruto has people who help raise each other up. Not only do we all treasure each other greatly, but our existence also gives Naruto strength. I'm sure he doesn't believe, even for a moment, that he came this far by himself.
Gaara: It's all because of Naruto that we're here right now. When we first met, some of us fought or were enemies, but here we all are, trusting Naruto.
[...]
Sasuke: Who cares about friendship? Who cares about trust? To accept that would be to deny everything that I've ever been. I won't believe in such power. Such a thing is easily erased!
Did anyone noticed that Toei combined these 2 scenes from Naruto and One Piece in episode 130?
They sound so similar.
perucho1990 wrote:Usopp: It's not over yet, is it? No matter what, no matter the peril, you've always sprung back! You'll definitely be able to defeat Lucci! I believe in you! So get up, Luffy!
Lucci: Impossible! You shouldn't have any more stamina!
Luffy: Lucci, it ain't over yet!
Lucci: How? How can you stand after being beaten so many times, Monkey D. Luffy?!
Luffy: Robin and Sogeking, and everyone else are trustin' me. I swear on that faith I can never back down now!
Sakura: Naruto isn't fighting only for himself. It's because he's bearing our hopes too.
Kakashi: Sakura's right. Naruto has people who help raise each other up. Not only do we all treasure each other greatly, but our existence also gives Naruto strength. I'm sure he doesn't believe, even for a moment, that he came this far by himself.
Gaara: It's all because of Naruto that we're here right now. When we first met, some of us fought or were enemies, but here we all are, trusting Naruto.
[...]
Sasuke: Who cares about friendship? Who cares about trust? To accept that would be to deny everything that I've ever been. I won't believe in such power. Such a thing is easily erased!
Did anyone noticed that Toei combined these 2 scenes from Naruto and One Piece in episode 130?
They sound so similar.
Yes, I did and Doctor. did, which is still hilarious how similar it sounds
thegamer23 wrote:That "exploding back" shot was strange enough tho. Mmmm.
That has Evangelion vibes!
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Too bad they didn't had the guts to show this in a normal scene instead of that black filter
Power levels are not just big numbers:
Spoiler:
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
perucho1990 wrote:Usopp: It's not over yet, is it? No matter what, no matter the peril, you've always sprung back! You'll definitely be able to defeat Lucci! I believe in you! So get up, Luffy!
Lucci: Impossible! You shouldn't have any more stamina!
Luffy: Lucci, it ain't over yet!
Lucci: How? How can you stand after being beaten so many times, Monkey D. Luffy?!
Luffy: Robin and Sogeking, and everyone else are trustin' me. I swear on that faith I can never back down now!
Sakura: Naruto isn't fighting only for himself. It's because he's bearing our hopes too.
Kakashi: Sakura's right. Naruto has people who help raise each other up. Not only do we all treasure each other greatly, but our existence also gives Naruto strength. I'm sure he doesn't believe, even for a moment, that he came this far by himself.
Gaara: It's all because of Naruto that we're here right now. When we first met, some of us fought or were enemies, but here we all are, trusting Naruto.
[...]
Sasuke: Who cares about friendship? Who cares about trust? To accept that would be to deny everything that I've ever been. I won't believe in such power. Such a thing is easily erased!
Did anyone noticed that Toei combined these 2 scenes from Naruto and One Piece in episode 130?
They sound so similar.
They're shonen animes after all. Generic type, to the core.
perucho1990 wrote:Usopp: It's not over yet, is it? No matter what, no matter the peril, you've always sprung back! You'll definitely be able to defeat Lucci! I believe in you! So get up, Luffy!
Lucci: Impossible! You shouldn't have any more stamina!
Luffy: Lucci, it ain't over yet!
Lucci: How? How can you stand after being beaten so many times, Monkey D. Luffy?!
Luffy: Robin and Sogeking, and everyone else are trustin' me. I swear on that faith I can never back down now!
Sakura: Naruto isn't fighting only for himself. It's because he's bearing our hopes too.
Kakashi: Sakura's right. Naruto has people who help raise each other up. Not only do we all treasure each other greatly, but our existence also gives Naruto strength. I'm sure he doesn't believe, even for a moment, that he came this far by himself.
Gaara: It's all because of Naruto that we're here right now. When we first met, some of us fought or were enemies, but here we all are, trusting Naruto.
[...]
Sasuke: Who cares about friendship? Who cares about trust? To accept that would be to deny everything that I've ever been. I won't believe in such power. Such a thing is easily erased!
Did anyone noticed that Toei combined these 2 scenes from Naruto and One Piece in episode 130?
They sound so similar.
They're shonen animes after all. Generic type, to the core.
Uhh I don't think those lines were actually in those animes. Didn't Doctor just switch out the names to show that those kind of lines could fit in other animes ?
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.
Doctor. wrote:
Lucci: Impossible! You shouldn't have any more stamina!
Luffy: Lucci, it ain't over yet!
Lucci: How? How can you stand after being beaten so many times, Monkey D. Luffy?!
Luffy: Robin and Sogeking, and everyone else are trustin' me. I swear on that faith I can never back down now!
Sakura: Naruto isn't fighting only for himself. It's because he's bearing our hopes too.
Kakashi: Sakura's right. Naruto has people who help raise each other up. Not only do we all treasure each other greatly, but our existence also gives Naruto strength. I'm sure he doesn't believe, even for a moment, that he came this far by himself.
Gaara: It's all because of Naruto that we're here right now. When we first met, some of us fought or were enemies, but here we all are, trusting Naruto.
[...]
Sasuke: Who cares about friendship? Who cares about trust? To accept that would be to deny everything that I've ever been. I won't believe in such power. Such a thing is easily erased!
Uhh I don't think those lines were actually in those animes. Didn't Doctor just switch out the names to show that those kind of lines could fit in other animes ?
I doubt he would invent these lines just to prove a point.
Power levels are not just big numbers:
Spoiler:
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Doctor. wrote:
Lucci: Impossible! You shouldn't have any more stamina!
Luffy: Lucci, it ain't over yet!
Lucci: How? How can you stand after being beaten so many times, Monkey D. Luffy?!
Luffy: Robin and Sogeking, and everyone else are trustin' me. I swear on that faith I can never back down now!
Sakura: Naruto isn't fighting only for himself. It's because he's bearing our hopes too.
Kakashi: Sakura's right. Naruto has people who help raise each other up. Not only do we all treasure each other greatly, but our existence also gives Naruto strength. I'm sure he doesn't believe, even for a moment, that he came this far by himself.
Gaara: It's all because of Naruto that we're here right now. When we first met, some of us fought or were enemies, but here we all are, trusting Naruto.
[...]
Sasuke: Who cares about friendship? Who cares about trust? To accept that would be to deny everything that I've ever been. I won't believe in such power. Such a thing is easily erased!
Uhh I don't think those lines were actually in those animes. Didn't Doctor just switch out the names to show that those kind of lines could fit in other animes ?
I doubt he would invent these lines just to prove a point.
perucho1990 wrote:Usopp: It's not over yet, is it? No matter what, no matter the peril, you've always sprung back! You'll definitely be able to defeat Lucci! I believe in you! So get up, Luffy!
Lucci: Impossible! You shouldn't have any more stamina!
Luffy: Lucci, it ain't over yet!
Lucci: How? How can you stand after being beaten so many times, Monkey D. Luffy?!
Luffy: Robin and Sogeking, and everyone else are trustin' me. I swear on that faith I can never back down now!
Sakura: Naruto isn't fighting only for himself. It's because he's bearing our hopes too.
Kakashi: Sakura's right. Naruto has people who help raise each other up. Not only do we all treasure each other greatly, but our existence also gives Naruto strength. I'm sure he doesn't believe, even for a moment, that he came this far by himself.
Gaara: It's all because of Naruto that we're here right now. When we first met, some of us fought or were enemies, but here we all are, trusting Naruto.
[...]
Sasuke: Who cares about friendship? Who cares about trust? To accept that would be to deny everything that I've ever been. I won't believe in such power. Such a thing is easily erased!
Did anyone noticed that Toei combined these 2 scenes from Naruto and One Piece in episode 130?
They sound so similar.
They're shonen animes after all. Generic type, to the core.
Uhh I don't think those lines were actually in those animes. Didn't Doctor just switch out the names to show that those kind of lines could fit in other animes ?
The first one it’s for sure .. don’t remember line by line but the meaning is kinda the same same for sure .
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....
So you're also telling me that perucho1990 just copy and past his comment in this thread not knowing these if these dialogues happened in those series just for shit and giggles?
perucho1990 wrote:Did anyone noticed that Toei combined these 2 scenes from Naruto and One Piece in episode 130?
They sound so similar.
Power levels are not just big numbers:
Spoiler:
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Yes, I literally just switched out the DB characters for OP and Naruto characters. The lines are taken straight out of DBS #130. If they sound too similar to specific moments in One Piece or Naruto, then that proves my point about how generic the dialogue in #130 was and how much the conflict lacked an identity of its own.
Doctor. wrote:Yes, I literally just switched out the DB characters for OP and Naruto characters. The lines are taken straight out of DBS #130. If they sound too similar to specific moments in One Piece or Naruto, then that proves my point about how generic the dialogue in #130 was and how much the conflict lacked an identity of its own.
I don't even think the conversation between Luffy or Lucci was as generic as the one between Goku or Jiren last episode, granted my memory is not the greatest but from what I remember of that fight I don't think their dialogue was super generic. Yeah while I liked the episode I can't argue that the writing of the episode wasn't all that great but then again it really hasn't been that good this entire arc outside of a few episodes.
So you're also telling me that perucho1990 just copy and past his comment in this thread not knowing these if these dialogues happened in those series just for shit and giggles?
perucho1990 wrote:Did anyone noticed that Toei combined these 2 scenes from Naruto and One Piece in episode 130?
They sound so similar.
Yes, that's exactly what I think he did.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.
I've gotta say, that usually it's Toei the one dropping the ball, but over the course of DBS Toriyama's writing has been lackluster. With this Jiren fight, Toei has gone above and beyond what Toriyama's given them. Not to say that Toriyama has ran out of his ideas. I do think these ideas are in fact brilliant. The 12 universes, GoDs, Ultra Instinct, are all great and fresh ideas. The problem is that Toriyama didn't do much with them. His ideas had immense potential, but he took the lazy route. Instead of exploring these universes through an arc, it's just tournament after tournament. Even with Jiren, the main adversary in the series, he was staunchly against thoroughly elaborating his character. His creative juices are still kicking and the ideas are good, it's just the exploration of those ideas/notions are superficial, lazy and bland.
DBS has been more frustrating than anything. Not because it's bad, because if it was just bad, you'd just leave it at that. It's frustrating because it could have been so much more. Imo it even had the potential to surpass DBZ/DB in a lot of respects, but you could tell the lack of enthusiasm was prevalent in so much of the series. It felt like a young talented athlete who never consistently became a top player, but just reached those heights people expected him to once in a while.
DragonHermit wrote:I've gotta say, that usually it's Toei the one dropping the ball, but over the course of DBS Toriyama's writing has been lackluster. With this Jiren fight, Toei has gone above and beyond what Toriyama's given them. Not to say that Toriyama has ran out of his ideas. I do think these ideas are in fact brilliant. The 12 universes, GoDs, Ultra Instinct, are all great and fresh ideas. The problem is that Toriyama didn't do much with them. His ideas had immense potential, but he took the lazy route. Instead of exploring these universes through an arc, it's just tournament after tournament. Even with Jiren, the main adversary in the series, he was staunchly against thoroughly elaborating his character. His creative juices are still kicking and the ideas are good, it's just the exploration of those ideas/notions are superficial, lazy and bland.
DBS has been more frustrating than anything. Not because it's bad, because if it was just bad, you'd just leave it at that. It's frustrating because it could have been so much more. Imo it even had the potential to surpass DBZ/DB in a lot of respects, but you could tell the lack of enthusiasm was prevalent in so much of the series. It felt like a young talented athlete who never consistently became a top player, but just reached those heights people expected him to once in a while.
Toriyama doesn't actually write DBS (either version). He only gives a blueprint of what major events are supposed to happen (like who beats who for example) and its up to Toei (anime) or Toyotaro (manga) to do the actual execution and storyboard. He's more involved with Super than he was with GT though.
DragonHermit wrote:I've gotta say, that usually it's Toei the one dropping the ball, but over the course of DBS Toriyama's writing has been lackluster. With this Jiren fight, Toei has gone above and beyond what Toriyama's given them. Not to say that Toriyama has ran out of his ideas. I do think these ideas are in fact brilliant. The 12 universes, GoDs, Ultra Instinct, are all great and fresh ideas. The problem is that Toriyama didn't do much with them. His ideas had immense potential, but he took the lazy route. Instead of exploring these universes through an arc, it's just tournament after tournament. Even with Jiren, the main adversary in the series, he was staunchly against thoroughly elaborating his character. His creative juices are still kicking and the ideas are good, it's just the exploration of those ideas/notions are superficial, lazy and bland.
DBS has been more frustrating than anything. Not because it's bad, because if it was just bad, you'd just leave it at that. It's frustrating because it could have been so much more. Imo it even had the potential to surpass DBZ/DB in a lot of respects, but you could tell the lack of enthusiasm was prevalent in so much of the series. It felt like a young talented athlete who never consistently became a top player, but just reached those heights people expected him to once in a while.
I agree with this sentiment. Never liked the idea of this big tournament to happen so soon in the series, the premise is definitely good, but lacks development. I think Toei did the best they could though their writers are not cohesive. I'll wait for how Toyotaro will conclude this arc, then we can be sure on who to blame on all this.
Power levels are not just big numbers:
Spoiler:
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Miracles wrote:Jiren trying to blow up U7's bench was cool. I like the fact he attacked Goku's strength, the real enemy.
It seemed to me he did it just to prove a point, not to defeat Goku. That the power coming from friendship is fragile and can be easily undone because his friends are 'weaklings'. Building a castle on sand, so to speak.
, as *I* definitely never said or implied kids are incompetent morons. I said, they (as in Toei) were betting on the kids watching (them being 12 or younger, as 13-14 are the beginning of teenage years and teenagers aren't "kids") forgetting Freeza was there and not necessarily caring about adults' perception of the show. Which, by all means, would be a pretty stupid bet on Toei's part. I don't necessarily appreciate at times how the writing insults the intelligence of the viewing audience, don't get me wrong, but it's not as if Toei necessarily cares as much about any age outside of the target demographic and the money that's coming in. 
[/spoiler]
