"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[sunsetshimmer]

Digimon was always a great series, but Digimon Adventure was a masterpiece.

Have you watched all of them?

I only skipped Tamers because it was actually bad and boring imo. Although i know it's very popular. I didn't watch Savers yet.
But Adventure (even 02), Frontier and Xros Wars were all very good.

[Mister_Popo]

The original author has authority by law over these things. This is in contrast to how in the US the original creator usually sells all of their rights to corporations. If the original creator doesn't like something in an adaption things can get very difficult for the adaptation team. This is why Sailor Moon adaptions are so hard to do, for example.

Yes, completely true, but technically speaking the owner of DB is not Akira Toriyama, he could only have made DB with the license of Shueisha.

I found this post on Kanzenshuu concerning this matter:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31294&p=973733

Quote VegettoEX:

"Shueisha is the ultimate rights-holder, with Dragon Ball being originally created for any published through them. Everything is dished out from there (Toei for animation, Bandai for merchandise, etc.).

Near as we can tell, Toriyama / Bird Studio does not outright own the series in any way; the best explanation I can give is that it's like a "work-for-hire" kind of thing. Toriyama is certainly given the respect he deserves as the original author and is clearly given free reign to do anything he wants with it, but Shueisha can also do whatever THEY want with it, with or without his permission."

But Shueisha isn't Toei. Are you showing this quote to show that the manga might be still ongoing even though Toriyama shouldn't like it?

If the licenseholder (Shueisha and in extention Toriyama) had a fundamental object against DBS continuing, we would not have a manga right now.
The manga is their own project. If we only had an anime and no more manga, one could suspect they said 'TOEI, do want you want, but we're no longer backing it up.' (Like what happened back in the day with GT.)

[sangofe]

Digimon was always a great series, but Digimon Adventure was a masterpiece.

Have you watched all of them?

I only skipped Tamers because it was actually bad and boring imo. Although i know it's very popular. I didn't watch Savers yet.
But Adventure (even 02), Frontier and Xros Wars were all very good.

Can you guys stop discussing Digimon in the this thread?

[Mister_Popo]

Now we have a different situation. The franchise knows more than ever how important Toriyamas name is and how much it sells. Back in the day with GT they were naieve thinking they could pull this one off without using his name. If Toriyama no longer wants to be actively involved with the franchise, writing outlines, drawing designs etc ... the franchise can bypass this by giving him a quick last final check of the content before release (so if there is really something which bothers him can still be altered) and then use the label 'Toriyama presents', or 'approved by Toriyama' keeping his level of involvement both vague AND very much emphasized in both anime- and manga-continuities (an official continuation of the story that does not equal GT). It would not make much sense for Toriyama not to allow this, as he would rebel with that against the earnings of his own employer, who still holds the creative license anyways, and miss a lot of revenue himself with basically doing nothing or even much less than he's doing today.

Toei staff and Toyotaro have been honest in interviews when it comes to Toriyama's involvement and what ideas they came up with themselves. I don't think they would suddenly want to deceive fans into believing he has more involvement than he really does. If they did decide to go this route, how long do you think that anime would last? 50 episodes? 100 episodes? At best I think this strategy only extends this revival a little longer but I doubt this intend for it work for another long running continuous anime.

Marvel kept using 'Stan Lee presents' a very long time after Stan Lee quit writing stories. It's no real deceiving, people knew he did no longer wrote the stories, but it gave the fans a feeling of authenticity and it sold well. If Toriyama still is able to see the content before it's spread, the original author is still supervising and acknowledging the story as being the official continuation.

If you really want Toriyamas 100 % involvement to be a necessity in order to give a true feeling of authenticity ... Toriyama is a mangaka, not a mere scriptwriter, so in a sense he is no longer involved as he used to be. So if he'd skip to only supervising that would be yet again a step down, but it doesn't change the fact he wasn't as deeply involved in the revival as he used to be in the 80s and 90s anyways.

[Xeztin]

To my knowledge as far as Shueisha goes, no author completely owns the work they craft. When an author sends Shueshia a draft/one-shot, there are more than likely contracts that create an agreement where the author/artist is paid for drawing, by the page, and Shueshia retains all publishing and licensing rights etc. Every so many years if publication is not cancelled, the contract/agreement is probably renegotiated based on popularity to increase the authors salary when it runs out. From my knowledge usually the author is paid by the chapter/page amount, but they also get royalties from volume sales, toys and merch, which is licenses Shuesiha sells out to companies like Bandai, and Toei and dubs like Funimation which is where the authors salary really comes from. Shueshia obviously has the right to cancel a series, and prevent the author from taking it to another publisher when it is cancelled. If they can do all that, I don’t see why they can’t make a DB anything without Toriyama’s permission. BUT the original author’s name always brings more hype and more money in when his name is attached to a product. It’s also may be rude in Japan to continue without the authors knowledge/consent. They don’t want a bombshell like GT either which is why they waited so long. But now they are in a spot, where I have no doubt that even after Toriyama’s lifetime they can, and will continue the DB train in some aspect, because they have the rights as such. At this point, they pay Tori for ideas, and his name credit. But if they really wanted to do more spin offs, or jump into other media without him, I highly doubt Toriyama could stop them Its just they felt like they needed him for it to work, but I think they feel more comfortable now a days without him too.

[emperior]

The DB Jump YouTube channel has just uploaded the commercial aired at Jump Festa: https://t.co/pXIih5Tye7?amp=1
It honestly seems more and more like they are pushing the manga.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the reason we aren’t getting any new animated stuff is that Toriyama doesn’t want to write movies, or outlines, and instead prefers to just supervise Toyotaro as he trusts him, and it’s less work.

Then once the manga completes the arcs Toei would adapt them. This would also ensure they are put in check, and Toriyama wouldn’t have to supervise their work as they would be adapting something he already supervised.

While this may not be the ideal situation for us fans, it’s most likely the best scenario for Toriyama.
And I am quite sure this confusing situation regarding Super’s future is because of Toriyama. There’s no way Toei would do have done Digimon or Dragon Quest if they could have done Super instead.

[omaro34]

Strange. Dragonball has made Toei, Bandai and these other stakeholders involved a ton of money. Most companies would capitalize on the overwhelming profit and continue the story, with or without Toriyama.

Super Anime is still in hiatus and will be for a while.

[Sykin]

Given Geekdom's new information regarding the creative shift allegedly going down behind the scenes, I actually wouldn't be surprised if I was right in my earlier post when I speculated that maybe they're waiting for the manga to do it's thing so they can adapt it later. It actually makes a good bit of sense.

[Mister_Popo]

Given Geekdom's new information regarding the creative shift allegedly going down behind the scenes, I actually wouldn't be surprised if I was right in my earlier post when I speculated that maybe they're waiting for the manga to do it's thing so they can adapt it later. It actually makes a good bit of sense.

I honestly think it's a combination of multiple factors.
Toriyama could be involved. But maybe the need just isn't big enough to make a definite decision right now about how it has to move on, because they are still making a huge amount of money without doing much aside from the manga.
Eventually DBS will continue in animated format, be it movies alone or movies and anime.
Preferably with Toriyama onboard, but the franchise will go on anyways, with or without him writing the story, there is too much money involved not to continue at the end.

[Matches Malone]

The DB Jump YouTube channel has just uploaded the commercial aired at Jump Festa: https://t.co/pXIih5Tye7?amp=1
It honestly seems more and more like they are pushing the manga.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the reason we aren’t getting any new animated stuff is that Toriyama doesn’t want to write movies, or outlines, and instead prefers to just supervise Toyotaro as he trusts him, and it’s less work.

Then once the manga completes the arcs Toei would adapt them.

While this may not be the ideal situation for us fans, it’s most likely the best scenario for Toriyama.

I think what's going on is that DB will be changing to a seasonal format which only adapts the manga when each arc ends. By the time the current arc ends, it'll have more than enough content for a 50 episode season. Although this isn't perfect, the anime's quality will be much higher and if the Moro arc is anything to go by, the stories moving forward will be longer and more fleshed out like in the original manga.

In terms of Toriyama, I think he may just write the movie outlines while Toyotaro takes care of the long anime arcs.

[Mister_Popo]

The DB Jump YouTube channel has just uploaded the commercial aired at Jump Festa: https://t.co/pXIih5Tye7?amp=1
It honestly seems more and more like they are pushing the manga.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the reason we aren’t getting any new animated stuff is that Toriyama doesn’t want to write movies, or outlines, and instead prefers to just supervise Toyotaro as he trusts him, and it’s less work.

Then once the manga completes the arcs Toei would adapt them.

While this may not be the ideal situation for us fans, it’s most likely the best scenario for Toriyama.

I think what's going on is that DB will be changing to a seasonal format which only adapts the manga when each arc ends. By the time the current arc ends, it'll have more than enough content for a 50 episode season. Although this isn't perfect, the anime's quality will be much higher and if the Moro arc is anything to go by, the stories moving forward will be longer and more fleshed out like in the original manga.

In terms of Toriyama, I think he may just write the movie outlines while Toyotaro takes care of the long anime arcs.

It could be ...
That approach would have its advantages and somehow does make sense.

But i see a couple objections that go along as well ...

One of the main aspects that created hype in the first half of Super was that basically nobody knew what was going to happen, as the manga was leaping behind. What added news value could the anime offer if they literary adapt the manga and everybody worldwide already knows what is going to happen, including the ending?

If the movie is planned let's say in summer 2021, when are they going to bring the animated version of Moro arc? I don't see it happening anytime soon because they've got no staff for it. Dragon Quest and Digimon probably will continue in 2021. I expect them to bring the Moro arc animated before the movie if the movie takes places after Moro, so that's going to be pretty tight. Unless the movie is a Toriyama-version of the arc, rewritten into movie format.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

Seasonal formats are a good thing, in my opinion (as worthless as that is). It gives the animators time to figure out which teams will be working on the project, minimizes the risks of animators getting burned out, and gives the directors warning enough that a consistent tone can be kept throughout the season. Plus, it gives anime only fans a chance to actually get hyped for an upcoming.

[emperior]

The DB Jump YouTube channel has just uploaded the commercial aired at Jump Festa: https://t.co/pXIih5Tye7?amp=1
It honestly seems more and more like they are pushing the manga.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the reason we aren’t getting any new animated stuff is that Toriyama doesn’t want to write movies, or outlines, and instead prefers to just supervise Toyotaro as he trusts him, and it’s less work.

Then once the manga completes the arcs Toei would adapt them.

While this may not be the ideal situation for us fans, it’s most likely the best scenario for Toriyama.

I think what's going on is that DB will be changing to a seasonal format which only adapts the manga when each arc ends. By the time the current arc ends, it'll have more than enough content for a 50 episode season. Although this isn't perfect, the anime's quality will be much higher and if the Moro arc is anything to go by, the stories moving forward will be longer and more fleshed out like in the original manga.

In terms of Toriyama, I think he may just write the movie outlines while Toyotaro takes care of the long anime arcs.

50 episodes would be too many for that arc.
I think 26, therefore 2 cours, would work pretty well.
There’s also still the option that they just won’t even adapt it and will jump straight to Toriyama’s movie once he writes it.

Still, it’s weird for them to not even do a spin-off movie while they wait for Toriyama to write the next story.

[ZombieVito]

Now this is some frightening shit right here.

Apart from a few things here and there, the anime is overall a better product so adapting the manga from the beginning would make as much sense as retelling BOG and RF.

Agreed. Why the hell adapting the manga from the start? There's not that many differences either.

Toyoraro is a terrible writer.

Not only does he contradict himself a lot but he also ruined Goku Black in the manga. Piccolo is also a big bitch on it.

[Matches Malone]

One of the main aspects that created hype in the first half of Super was that basically nobody knew what was going to happen, as the manga was leaping behind. If the movie is planned let's say in summer 2021, when are they going to bring the animated version of Moro arc?

I don't think knowing about the manga will hurt the anime as countless anime (including DB/Z) are based off manga, yet are still very successful. I do agree that the anime returning in 2021 and having a movie the same year may be too much so one may get pushed back to 2022.

50 episodes would be too many for that arc.

There are currently 14 chapters (43-56) with each being around 45 pages long. I don't know how much longer it'll be but for argument's sake let's say it'll go on for an additional 6 chapters, bringing the total chapters up to 20. 20 chapters × 45 pages = 900 pages in total.

900 pages ÷ 50 episodes = 18 pages per episode. If I'm not mistaking, that's on par with the amount of pages each episode of the original DB and Z adapted back in the day, if not more. That's assuming it'll be a 1:1 adaption of the manga, which it more than likely won't be. There's also the possibility of there being more chapters which will just increase the number of pages available to them.

Now keep in mind that when this arc is adapted (I don't see why it wouldn't as it'd only make money for them), Toei is more than likely going to add things to it and extend others. For example, we'll probably see longer fights, get to see what everyone on earth was up to before the attack, get extended flashbacks and training sessions, etc.

It’s weird for them to not even do a spin-off movie while they wait for Toriyama to write the next story.

Geekdom thinks it's due to them being afraid of hurting the franchise's reputation like they did with GT. If the Heroes anime is the best they can do without Toriyama, then they made the right choice. There's also the fact that expectations of the movies are very high now, both from fans and shareholders thanks to Broly, so they probably want the movies to be nothing short of events.

[Omgzord]

It's not about the number of pages. Some chapters are fighting only and most of the pages can be filled in 2-3 min of non-stop animation while other chapters may contain dialogue-heavy and it needs up to 10-12 min to adapt fully without rushing stuff.

Original DBZ anime is pretty bad pacing wise as it adds a lot of filler scenes and drags out many events from the original manga.

Moro arc as it stands now can't even make a 2 cours anime.

[RecolorSaiyan]

toei Can turn 8-10 pages of OP into an entire episode, in theory one chapter of Dbs could become 4-5 episodes, now the pacing would obviously be atrocious but it’s not like this franchise hasn’t had that before

[Omgzord]

toei Can turn 8-10 pages of OP into an entire episode, in theory one chapter of Dbs could become 4-5 episodes, now the pacing would obviously be atrocious but it’s not like this franchise hasn’t had that before

They are not doing the whole "stretch a fight for 10 episodes" thing anymore tho. At least in the super, the longest battle was against Jiren in the final battle and it lasted 4.5 episodes I think. The battle against Frieza lasted for like 20 episodes for example.

Dunno why you are expecting the worst tho. It's not like they want to produce shitty product either, it took them a long time to earn the fan's respect again after they messed up the BoG and RoF saga back in 2015.

[JulieYBM]

God, I hope it's not about waiting for Toyo-tarou. If the producers would pull their heads out of their asses and trust their directors and writers they would easily producer better content than Toyo-tarou.

[RecolorSaiyan]

Has anyone heard anything more about the rumor that Toriyama threatened to quit DB altogether if Toei didn’t fix the anime when it was airing