"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:18 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:42 am
If Dragon Quest is delaying the return of the TV series, this will definitely delay the next movie. Again, DB will eventually receive one or both, but that will take far longer than we'd like due to the franchise's current financial success.
I remember when it was said "DB makes too much money not to continue the following year (2019)" but now it's "DB makes enough money that it doesn't need to continue for a few years". The new Demon Slayer film is now the highest grossing anime of all time worldwide and grossed almost 3 times as much as Broly but the studio is still working on the second season to adapt the rest of the manga.

I think Toei is taking their time because they want to avoid what happened with the first DBS anime. Aside from pre-production issues, there isn't much source material to work with. It might be easier to wait for the manga to get ahead enough or end and use that as an outline rather than just the short written outline from Toriyama. If the anime returns after Digimon ends this year, they would catch up to the manga in less than a year while it's probably still on the Granola arc. If nothing is announced this year, I think the earliest would be 2022 or 2023 depending how long the anime replacing Digimon will last. That would give the manga enough time to complete the Granola arc.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by IntangibleFancy » Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:31 pm

Skar wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:18 am
Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:42 am
If Dragon Quest is delaying the return of the TV series, this will definitely delay the next movie. Again, DB will eventually receive one or both, but that will take far longer than we'd like due to the franchise's current financial success.
I remember when it was said "DB makes too much money not to continue the following year (2019)" but now it's "DB makes enough money that it doesn't need to continue for a few years".
So we supported the franchise so hard it put the anime in purgatory? Is it just me being too focused on all the negative aspects, or does anyone else feel like this is more of a punishment than a good thing?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:00 pm

IntangibleFancy wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:31 pm
So we supported the franchise so hard it put the anime in purgatory? Is it just me being too focused on all the negative aspects, or does anyone else feel like this more of a punishment than a good thing?
I have no idea. It's all speculation but I was thinking about how it changed from being a guarantee it's returning the following year to a list of possible reasons why it didn't. I think giving the manga time to get ahead while also not working on too many anime at once is the most likely reason. We won't know until we get an official announcement.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:34 pm

IntangibleFancy wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:31 pm
So we supported the franchise so hard it put the anime in purgatory? Is it just me being too focused on all the negative aspects, or does anyone else feel like this is more of a punishment than a good thing?
The reason we started getting new content to begin with was due to the old content no longer being able to bring in the $$$ they wanted. Not only was the new animated content able to bring in more $$$, it continued to do so and bring in even more after its conclusion. From a business perspective, it makes more sense to invest time and money into franchises that actually need them.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:02 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:34 pm
The reason we started getting new content to begin with was due to the old content no longer being able to bring in the $$$ they wanted. Not only was the new animated content able to bring in more $$$, it continued to do so and bring in even more after its conclusion. From a business perspective, it makes more sense to invest time and money into franchises that actually need them.
That might be one of the reasons but I don't think it's the only reason. The source material for modern DB are Toriyama's outlines. Moro was mostly written by Toyotaro with Toriyama's supervision but I don't think it's entirely filler because it leads directly into the next arc. Based on the interview with Toyotaro's editor, Toriyama's next outline was completed fairly recently.

If Toei brought back the anime in 2019 or 2020, they would've caught up with the manga within a few months. I'm not sure what they would do at that point without an outline from Toriyama. Take another long break or have more filler which likely wouldn't do very well. Boruto is planned for 30 volumes which could give us an idea how long the DBS manga will last. It would make sense to wait until the manga ends before starting the anime.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:53 pm

Skar wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:02 pm
Boruto is planned for 30 volumes which could give us an idea how long the DBS manga will last.
Considering how the latest volume sold the least amount of copies and it isn't even half there yet (vol 13), I highly doubt it'll last an additional 17 volumes.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:32 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:53 pm
Considering how the latest volume sold the least amount of copies and it isn't even half there yet (vol 13), I highly doubt it'll last an additional 17 volumes.
Yeah I doubt it will but both Boruto and DBS are the two longest running series on V-Jump and not too far apart in sales so it's the only thing to compare the DBS manga with. We get three volumes a year so Toyotaro would reach volume 30 by 2026. It's unlikely to continue for that long because Toriyama drew the DB manga for ten years and I can't think of any revival lasting longer than its original series.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by IntangibleFancy » Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:48 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:53 pm
Considering how the latest volume sold the least amount of copies and it isn't even half there yet (vol 13), I highly doubt it'll last an additional 17 volumes.
Are you talking about Boruto or DBS?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:16 pm

IntangibleFancy wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:48 pm
Matches Malone wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:53 pm
Considering how the latest volume sold the least amount of copies and it isn't even half there yet (vol 13), I highly doubt it'll last an additional 17 volumes.
Are you talking about Boruto or DBS?
Boruto since even though the story is getting better with each volume, the sales are going down :|

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by IntangibleFancy » Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:18 pm

Xeogran wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:16 pm
IntangibleFancy wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:48 pm
Matches Malone wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:53 pm
Considering how the latest volume sold the least amount of copies and it isn't even half there yet (vol 13), I highly doubt it'll last an additional 17 volumes.
Are you talking about Boruto or DBS?
Boruto since even though the story is getting better with each volume, the sales are going down :|
Maybe Ikemoto is the problem.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:27 am

IntangibleFancy wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:18 pm
Maybe Ikemoto is the problem.
I don't think anyone's to blame, but rather people deciding to move on from the Naruto franchise following the manga's conclusion. The same thing happened with Bleach following Aiezen being captured, fans moved on from the franchise despite the story being nowhere near over. The problem with both was their structure, as each had one specific goal from start to finish, so expecting fans to stick around after the goal is achieved wasn't very realistic. The main driving force of the Naruto franchise was to see Naruto grow up into a Hero and Hokage, so what's the point of continuing once that was achieved ? After spending a decade and a half following Naruto and the Akatsuke's story, you're now asking me to spend another decade following his son and this new organization's story ? I loved the Boruto movie, but like the Battle of Gods movie, it worked better as a standalone epilogue to the original story, not a beginning to a completely new one. A similar thing happened with Bleach, the story spent a decade following Aizen, so was it really surprising to see fans move one once he was captured ? Fans probably felt the same way about GT, as they were being asked to watch Goku grow up again after finishing doing just that. This has nothing to do with quality, but rather fans feeling they saw all that both franchises had to offer and moved on to different ones.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by IntangibleFancy » Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:02 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:27 am
IntangibleFancy wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:18 pm
Maybe Ikemoto is the problem.
I don't think anyone's to blame, but rather people deciding to move on from the Naruto franchise following the manga's conclusion. The same thing happened with Bleach following Aiezen being captured, fans moved on from the franchise despite the story being nowhere near over. The problem with both was their structure, as each had one specific goal from start to finish, so expecting fans to stick around after the goal is achieved wasn't very realistic. The main driving force of the Naruto franchise was to see Naruto grow up into a Hero and Hokage, so what's the point of continuing once that was achieved ? After spending a decade and a half following Naruto and the Akatsuke's story, you're now asking me to spend another decade following his son and this new organization's story ? I loved the Boruto movie, but like the Battle of Gods movie, it worked better as a standalone epilogue to the original story, not a beginning to a completely new one. A similar thing happened with Bleach, the story spent a decade following Aizen, so was it really surprising to see fans move one once he was captured ? Fans probably felt the same way about GT, as they were being asked to watch Goku grow up again after finishing doing just that. This has nothing to do with quality, but rather fans feeling they saw all that both franchises had to offer and moved on to different ones.
I would have understood 5 years ago when the manga first released, but don't you think it's weird that, after all that's happened in the recent chapters the sales are worse than they've ever been? Even the dedicated fans that stayed for the long recap of the movie aren't enough and have probably ducked out as well.

https://twitter.com/OrganicDinosaur/sta ... 5918833666

It can't just be them finally getting tired of the franchise. I'm sure more skeptics than just me came flocking back when we heard the manga was finally prepping for something big, but there was nothing redeemable about those lackluster fights in the recent chapters. I'm still surprised at the fact that Ike and Kodachi managed to make me feel nothing about Naruto's new form and a main villain being killed. Imagine waiting a month for this.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:13 pm

IntangibleFancy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:02 pm
Don't you think it's weird that, after all that's happened in the recent chapters the sales are worse than they've ever been?

Even the dedicated fans that stayed for the longrecap of the movie aren't enough and have probably ducked out as well. I'm sure more skeptics than just me came flocking back when we heard the manga was finally prepping for something big, but there was nothing redeemable about those lackluster fights. I couldn't even believe they managed to make me feel nothing about Naruto's new form and a main villain being killed. It happened back to back too. Imagine waiting a month for that.
Looking at that chart, it seems to have been going down gradually, rather than out of nowhere. The first 4 years it was within the top 6, now it's barely hanging in the top 10.

I've been reading summaries about the events and generally speaking, they have a "been there, done that" vibe to them. I think even the die hard fans who stuck around longer than I did (I just watched the movie and Sarada arc) realized over time that they were basically seeing what they saw back in the day, just with a different paint job. There's nothing particular bad about what they've been doing, but there's also nothing we haven't seen before either.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by IntangibleFancy » Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:31 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:13 pm
IntangibleFancy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:02 pm
Don't you think it's weird that, after all that's happened in the recent chapters the sales are worse than they've ever been?

Even the dedicated fans that stayed for the longrecap of the movie aren't enough and have probably ducked out as well. I'm sure more skeptics than just me came flocking back when we heard the manga was finally prepping for something big, but there was nothing redeemable about those lackluster fights. I couldn't even believe they managed to make me feel nothing about Naruto's new form and a main villain being killed. It happened back to back too. Imagine waiting a month for that.
Looking at that chart, it seems to have been going down gradually, rather than out of nowhere. The first 4 years it was within the top 6, now it's barely hanging in the top 10.

I've been reading summaries about the events and generally speaking, they have a "been there, done that" vibe to them. I think even the die hard fans who stuck around longer than I did (I just watched the movie and Sarada arc) realized over time that they were basically seeing what they saw back in the day, just with a different paint job. There's nothing particular bad about what they've been doing, but there's also nothing we haven't seen before either.
Wouldn't the same be said for the anime too? I even remember a filler arc of theirs ending in one of those cheesy homages some sequels are famous for pulling, but in spite of that it's still way more popular than it should be, and I can see why. Their adaptions of the manga and novels are occasionally better than the source material. Including their version of the movie.

The manga on the other hand takes a month, but there was nothing about the art and story telling that actually made the wait worthwhile. It's a raw deal for the fans.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:11 pm

IntangibleFancy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:31 pm
Wouldn't the same be said for the anime too?
If I had to guess I'd say both have different audiences. The anime may be watched by newer, younger fans who aren't interested in the manga. The manga may be read by older fans only, who are growing tired of it due to them already investing 15 years in the original Naruto.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:12 pm

IntangibleFancy wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:18 pm
Maybe Ikemoto is the problem.
The first volume of Boruto sold a fraction of Naruto's final volume. I haven't read it but I can't imagine the quality of the first few chapters was so bad that sales dropped that much. It could be because it's a new artist so Boruto is treated like more of a spin-off by long time fans than a direct sequel? Every long-running manga I know of ended when the original author decided and I've only seen short spin-offs after that. Boruto is the longest spin-off/sequel by another artist I've seen so I assume it's not common.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:28 pm

Skar wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:12 pm
The first volume of Boruto sold a fraction of Naruto's final volume. It could be because it's a new artist so Boruto is treated like more of a spin-off by long time fans than a direct sequel?
Now that Kishimoto is back in the driver's seat, it'll be interesting to see how well Vol 14 sells, as that'll be the first volume to include his work.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by IntangibleFancy » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:54 pm

Skar wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:12 pm
IntangibleFancy wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:18 pm
Maybe Ikemoto is the problem.
The first volume of Boruto sold a fraction of Naruto's final volume. I haven't read it but I can't imagine the quality of the first few chapters was so bad that sales dropped that much.
I can believe it. It was just a long rehash of the movie, but with none of the visuals to make it okay. He was terrible at drawing the older characters and the newer ones don't look like they belong on Naruto. Just look at Sasuke.

That was five years, though. He's obviously gotten better at keeping the original characters consistent with Kishi's designs, but his fight scenes are still nothing special. I compared one of the early Naruto fights with a recent Boruto one and it was honestly sad. I couldn't even use the newest chapter because I had trouble finding a good enough page.
Matches Malone wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:11 pm
IntangibleFancy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:31 pm
Wouldn't the same be said for the anime too?
If I had to guess I'd say both have different audiences. The anime may be watched by newer, younger fans who aren't interested in the manga. The manga may be read by older fans only, who are growing tired of it due to them already investing 15 years in the original Naruto.
Don't you think it's weird that after 5 years they've only started to leave right when the plot is getting heavy? I'm not gonna deny that some of them are probably getting tired of keeping up with the franchise, but timing makes it seem like people are upset that the manga is still underwhelming even when the plot thickens.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:19 am

IntangibleFancy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:54 pm
Don't you think it's weird that after 5 years they've only started to leave right when the plot is getting heavy? timing makes it seem like people are upset that the manga is still underwhelming even when the plot thickens.
The Kawaki arc started in vol 7 and may last until vol 14, resulting in the arc lasting for 8 volumes. Based on the above chart, sales started going down badly in just the 3rd volume (vol 9), which means people started giving up on it long before it reached the current events.

I think the biggest issue facing Boruto right now, like modern DB, is a lack of interesting characters. With Naruto, people wanted to see this outcast win over people's love and respect, something he worked on throughout the majority of the story to achieve. Naruto also had a good size supporting cast, each with their own goals and unique traits. Boruto wanted his father to notice and acknowledge him, the problem is that he achieved that goal in the very first story he was introduced in, so what's the point of following his story after that ? There's also the issue of a lack of supporting cast, something the original Naruto never suffered from. Then there's the villains, the original Naruto had some of the best villains in any Shonen, but can the same be said for Boruto ? Modern DB faces these issues as well, we went from the likes of Freeza, Cell, & Buu who had great and fun personalities, to the likes of Hit, Jiren, & 7-3 who are the complete opposite. Modern DB also lacks a great supporting cast in favor of the same 1-2 characters being in the spotlight 24/7.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:46 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:19 am
IntangibleFancy wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:54 pm
Don't you think it's weird that after 5 years they've only started to leave right when the plot is getting heavy? timing makes it seem like people are upset that the manga is still underwhelming even when the plot thickens.
The Kawaki arc started in vol 7 and may last until vol 14, resulting in the arc lasting for 8 volumes. Based on the above chart, sales started going down badly in just the 3rd volume (vol 9), which means people started giving up on it long before it reached the current events.

I think the biggest issue facing Boruto right now, like modern DB, is a lack of interesting characters. With Naruto, people wanted to see this outcast win over people's love and respect, something he worked on throughout the majority of the story to achieve. Naruto also had a good size supporting cast, each with their own goals and unique traits. Boruto wanted his father to notice and acknowledge him, the problem is that he achieved that goal in the very first story he was introduced in, so what's the point of following his story after that ? There's also the issue of a lack of supporting cast, something the original Naruto never suffered from. Then there's the villains, the original Naruto had some of the best villains in any Shonen, but can the same be said for Boruto ? Modern DB faces these issues as well, we went from the likes of Freeza, Cell, & Buu who had great and fun personalities, to the likes of Hit, Jiren, & 7-3 who are the complete opposite. Modern DB also lacks a great supporting cast in favor of the same 1-2 characters being in the spotlight 24/7.
I disagree, Hit is still popular and Jiren made a hole country (mexico) root against him, then you have Zamasu and Goku black who will be remember for af long time.

And why do people forget about TOP? where 17 won and a lot of characters got the spotlight or universe 6 tournament where Monaka won? or the Future Trunks arc where Trunks, Bulma and Beerus did somthing and share the spotlight with Goku and Vegeta.

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