"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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ArchedThunder
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by ArchedThunder » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:53 am

Beerus-sama wrote:
Herms wrote: Beerus: “I only slept 39 years this time. I want to look sharp.”
Does that means that these scenes with Beerus destroying planets from episodes 1 and 2 are not in the same time where Goku and company events are happening?
Maybe he just wants to be nice and fresh, maybe as soon as he woke up he went destroying planets and now wants to be clean and relaxed from a bath because he's still a little tired from not getting a long sleep.
I mean the Kaioshin scene from the end of episode 1 makes it clear that he's awake and has been destroying planets.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Captain Space » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:33 am

Have to agree...I love Beerus, he's the best antagonist DB has ever had, but having him have a hand in what was essentially Freeza's defining act of tyranny/destruction is pretty dumb.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by ACCloud » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:42 am

I agree that it's a very silly and pointless change, but at least it's (seemingly) a small, throwaway line. Easy enough for me to ignore :wink:

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by MaGyunia » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:46 am

ArchedThunder wrote:
Beerus-sama wrote:
Herms wrote: Beerus: “I only slept 39 years this time. I want to look sharp.”
Does that means that these scenes with Beerus destroying planets from episodes 1 and 2 are not in the same time where Goku and company events are happening?
Maybe he just wants to be nice and fresh, maybe as soon as he woke up he went destroying planets and now wants to be clean and relaxed from a bath because he's still a little tired from not getting a long sleep.
I mean the Kaioshin scene from the end of episode 1 makes it clear that he's awake and has been destroying planets.
We can only speculate at this point until we get to see what actually happens when we see the episodes, but the most likely scenario is that the scenes from Beerus in that planet we saw in episode 1 of DBSuper were taking place at a different timing than the ones from Goku + Goten, Mr. Satan + Majin Buu, etc. (6 months after the defeat of Kid Buu). The possibility of a time skip between these first smooth episodes of family interaction and the timing at which Beerus meets Goku and the others seems to be growing, although, from what we already know, one thing they'll definitely have to change is the whole setting in which Beerus (and indeed the others) will get to know/hear about the stage of Super Saiya-jin God, as by the time Beerus appears on Earth in DBSuper he already seems to know much more about the Saiya-jin, the Super Saiya-jin and the Super Saiya-jin God "legend" on Planet Vegeta, in contrast or when compared to what happens in BoG, where he's just almost clueless about it.

The time skip from the BoG arc and the Fukkatsu no F arc within DBSuper will be much easier to get around, no major issues there, although a lot of potential for expanding the storyline and get to see stuff we haven't seen in Fukkatsu no F (namely Freeza's training method, Vegeta reaching SSJG himself, Vegeta's and Goku's decision to go off training with Whis - I'd really like to have them give these events just a bit of screen time).

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by MaGyunia » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:03 am

Chuquita wrote:Re: screen time
We're only 1 episode in on Super; there's no saying Gokû won't get temp-sidelined here the way he did in Z. He hasn't really fully main-charactered since the 23rd tournament.
That said, I don't want any new main character replacement because I can't unsee it as someone making their OC fanfic dreams come true and I just can't bring myself to care about a replacement. I was disappointed enough having ssjg replaced by blueper. Replacing Gokû himself would make me drop the series.
Goku, beyond anyone else in any given time in the series, and Dragon Ball are pretty much synonyms. The only time all the way throughout all the arcs in DB and DBZ at which they really seemed to deliberately have someone else "replace" Goku as the main protagonist (on a permanent basis), or at least have that fighter be on par with him, was when Gohan surpassed him by becoming Super Saiya-jin 2 in the Cell Games saga, overcoming his (and everyone else's) level of power, being the one to (be able to) defeat that particular villain (Cell). Even the opening from the Majin Buu arc in DBZ reflects that, Gohan is shown pretty much as the intended "new Goku" (they even "killed" Goku back in the Cell Games to ensure this would go even more smoothly), but it just didn't work out and Goku was again the one not only to finish off Kid Buu and, in more recent events, achieve a level of power closer to the likes of Beerus and Whis. Even Vegeta has surpassed Gohan by Fukkatsu no F, and we need to remember that there are many instances in which Gohan is stronger than Vegeta, for example when he reaches his "Ultimate" form. Before DBSuper/Fukkatsu no F, Vegeta was still below Gohan's level of power, but Gohan lacks the same "always-training-to-get-stronger" fighting-maniac spirit both Goku and Vegeta possess, as pure Saiya-jins. They're clearly going for the setting in which Goku and Vegeta are the only "good guys" from the Z team - and everything we've been seeing lately in BoG, Fukkatsu no F and DBSuper confirms it - that seem to be able to keep up with these new insanely powerful enemies, who go beyond even the strongest form of Super Buu or Super Vegitto.

I can't really see the need some fans have to have him "pass the torch" to someone else and let the "new generation" take over in terms of power/protagonism. Let it go, Goku will always be the main one, followed/seconded by, or, at most, ALONG with Vegeta. All the others will get their screen time, fighting time and proper character developments and interactions, and they most definitely should have, but in terms of power and protagonism we're down to Goku and Vegeta. They even had Vegeta reach new stages and overcome the degree of the gap in power between him and Gohan which was present at the time of the end of the Majin Buu arc, in order to fit the purpose of having him not only be the second-main protagonist after Goku, or along with Goku, in terms of power, by achieving SSJG and SSJGSSJ.

Gohan fans might be a little (or quite a lot) disappointed at the way they're treating Gohan in BoG, Fukkatsu no F and DBSuper as a protagonist and/or fighter, even in terms of degree of power, but he had two chances to become the strongest Z fighter during DBZ (Cell Games and when he became Ultimate Gohan and thrashed Super Buu) and failed to reach new stages and get stronger and stronger even that that, which is partially what Dragonball is all about.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by MaGyunia » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:18 am

Herms wrote:
jcogginsa wrote:
sintzu wrote:A new Q&A has been released :

http://www.db-z.com/dragon-ball-super-q ... ushi-kido/

Sorry if it's been posted already.
got an english version?
A bit quick, but here:

Q: Will Goku get stronger than SSGSS?
A: This is the #1 thing to look forward to in “DB Super”. I want him to get stronger, myself.

Q: Will a new Shenlong appear?
A: Things called “Super Dragon Balls” will appear!

Q: Where will the fights in “DB Super” take place?
A: This time Lord Beerus is appearing too, so the battles will expand out into the universe.

Q: Will Jaco from Revival of “F” appear?
A: Of course he will. All sorts of characters will play a part in “DB Super”.

Q: Will enemies Goku defeated in the past reappear?
A: I wonder. Personally, I hope they will (laughs).

Q: Will a new rival for Goku and the gang appear?
A: Yes. And there won’t just be one!

Q: About how strong will these new rivals be?
A: Roughly strong enough to be on par with Goku.

Q: Will the battle scenes power up too?
A: That’s right. Watch out for Goku’s fighting style as he grows stronger by training!

Q: Will there be scenes of Freeza training, which weren’t depicted in Revival of “F”?
A: No comment. Personally, I’m conflicted over whether or not I want to see that (laughs).
As for the first one, and going back to my own theory, Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin is already an improvement - even in terms of level of power, but also in other aspects - when compared to Super Saiya-jin God, but I'm sure that at some point in DBSuper, probably during the exploration of the 6th Universe arc, Goku (and perhaps Vegeta) will reach another, even stronger stage which will either be an improvement to SSJGSSJ itself or a replacement of it.

Regarding the degree of strength the new characters that will be introduced in DBSuper the series will have in the series (and this leaves out Beerus and Whis, whose level of power we're already pretty much aware of after BoG and Fukkatsu no F), there must be some insanely powerful villain (or rather, villains) later on after the Fukkatsu no F arc, at which time I hope things will get close to what we've seen throughout the second half of DB and the entirety of DBZ in terms of drama/fighting/psychotic arch-villains. I just wonder how they'll compare to Beerus and Whis themselves (and to Champa and his attendant as well, although, as far as these two go, I'd say they're almost or about as strong as their counterparts). Perhaps the only way to take down the new villains in the 6th Universe arc will be to have Beerus and/or Whis step in along with Goku and Vegeta, all of them working together at their strongest, to avoid some major cataclysm such as the destruction of the Universe(s). Wouldn't be the first we got to see team-work between the Z fighters and even between previous mortal rivals to take down a common enemy. The concept of Beerus cooperating to do something other than his job - destroying planets - is interesting, and actually we already got to see that in Fukkatsu no F, although he labels the experience of saving a planet rather than destroying it pretty "pathetic".

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by MaGyunia » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:34 am

Captain Space wrote:Have to agree...I love Beerus, he's the best antagonist DB has ever had, but having him have a hand in what was essentially Freeza's defining act of tyranny/destruction is pretty dumb.
If by "best antagonist" you mean he's the strongest, then sure (although Whis is actually stronger), and pretty much everyone - myself included - is a fan of him taking in account his character-power combo, but if you did a poll I'd bet you that Freeza would be "elected" as the most charismatic, psychotic, maniacal, genocidal, evil villain of all time in all of Dragonball. Hell, he's so charismatic they even "had" to bring him to life again in Fukkatsu no F - and hence, DBSuper - after all the time between Freeza's arc and the post-Majin Buu era, after numerous instances of cameos (Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiya-jin, getting beaten by Paiku-han right after the Cell Games, his appearance along the other past villains watching the fight between SSJ3 Goku and Kid Buu in Hell, his appearance in movie 12, among others), and have him become somewhat a menace by reaching a degree of power close to/on par with the most recent stages and levels of fighting ability seen in BoG and Fukkatsu no F, not to mention the previous DBZ arcs (Jinzouningen, Cell, Majin Buu arcs), by which time his (previous) level of power was all but absolutely overwhelmed.
They needed to match his level of power to his degree of charisma. We can argue whether or not it was done the right way in Fukkatsu no F, but that was definitely their intention.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by ArchedThunder » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:37 am

Herms wrote:
Q: Will a new rival for Goku and the gang appear?
A: Yes. And there won’t just be one!

Q: About how strong will these new rivals be?
A: Roughly strong enough to be on par with Goku.
These right here get me hyped.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Captain Space » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:45 am

MaGyunia wrote:
If by "best antagonist" you mean he's the strongest, then sure (although Whis is actually stronger), and pretty much everyone - myself included - is a fan of him taking in account his character-power combo, but if you did a poll I'd bet you that Freeza would be "elected" as the most charismatic, psychotic, maniacal, genocidal, evil villain of all time in all of Dragonball. Hell, he's so charismatic they even "had" to bring him to life again in Fukkatsu no F - and hence, DBSuper - after all the time between Freeza's arc and the post-Majin Buu era, after numerous instances of cameos (Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiya-jin, getting beaten by Paiku-han right after the Cell Games, his appearance along the other past villains watching the fight between SSJ3 Goku and Kid Buu in Hell, his appearance in movie 12, among others), and have him become somewhat a menace by reaching a degree of power close to/on par with the most recent stages and levels of fighting ability seen in BoG and Fukkatsu no F, not to mention the previous DBZ arcs (Jinzouningen, Cell, Majin Buu arcs), by which time his (previous) level of power was all but absolutely overwhelmed.
They needed to match his level of power to his degree of charisma. We can argue whether or not it was done the right way in Fukkatsu no F, but that was definitely their intention.
No, I meant best as in the best character. You're right, if you did a poll Freeza would probably win. But I'm not talking a popularity contest, I'm talking my opinion, and my favourite antagonist in terms of character and personality is Beerus.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Flame Dragon » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:03 am

It was already implied in BOG that Beerus wanted to destroy Planet Vegeta. He probably didn't like the food from King Vegeta and just said to Freeza "Destroy this planet, i hate their cooking".

Freeza probably didn't listen to him but ended up destroying it anyway for his own reasons (fear of a Super Saiyan rebellion).

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by MaGyunia » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:11 am

Captain Space wrote:
MaGyunia wrote:
If by "best antagonist" you mean he's the strongest, then sure (although Whis is actually stronger), and pretty much everyone - myself included - is a fan of him taking in account his character-power combo, but if you did a poll I'd bet you that Freeza would be "elected" as the most charismatic, psychotic, maniacal, genocidal, evil villain of all time in all of Dragonball. Hell, he's so charismatic they even "had" to bring him to life again in Fukkatsu no F - and hence, DBSuper - after all the time between Freeza's arc and the post-Majin Buu era, after numerous instances of cameos (Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiya-jin, getting beaten by Paiku-han right after the Cell Games, his appearance along the other past villains watching the fight between SSJ3 Goku and Kid Buu in Hell, his appearance in movie 12, among others), and have him become somewhat a menace by reaching a degree of power close to/on par with the most recent stages and levels of fighting ability seen in BoG and Fukkatsu no F, not to mention the previous DBZ arcs (Jinzouningen, Cell, Majin Buu arcs), by which time his (previous) level of power was all but absolutely overwhelmed.
They needed to match his level of power to his degree of charisma. We can argue whether or not it was done the right way in Fukkatsu no F, but that was definitely their intention.
No, I meant best as in the best character. You're right, if you did a poll Freeza would probably win. But I'm not talking a popularity contest, I'm talking my opinion, and my favourite antagonist in terms of character and personality is Beerus.
I'd have a hard time myself choosing just one as my favourite antagonist. What I can definitely say is that my LEAST favorite villain is Majin Buu, in any of his forms (especially in his fat form, which is how he was first introduced to us). Pretty much every antagonist throughout DB and DBZ were (at least at the time of their introduction) absolutely evil, which is both the reason for some fans to love them and the reason for others not to pay much attention to them. Beerus can't be seem in the same light as Vegeta (in his early days), Freeza, Future #17 and #18, Cell or Kid Buu (to stick to the series and refrain from including the likes of Brolly, etc.); he's a deity, relaxed, insanely powerful, can't be really deemed "evil" (nor "good"), and overall possesses a comic/extremely powerful combo which we haven't really ever seen before in an antagonist in Dragonball. He certainly can't be deemed a villain (nor an ally or a "member of the team", either). We wouldn't need it to confirm this, but the part in Fukkatsu no F where he replies to Bulma saying he's "no-one's ally" and to Freeza saying "do what you want, I don't care, but do it farther away" is definite, conclusive proof of that.

Don't get me wrong, like I said in my previous post I'm a fan of Beerus myself. I can't really see how even somebody who's not a DBZ fan at all and is not familiar with the storyline and watches BoG and, to some degree, Fukkatsu no F wouldn't become at least amused by his character while at the same time afraid/shocked at witnessing how insanely powerful he really is. He has some small similarities to Goku - insanely powerful, loving food, relaxed attitude. I think that they really did a great job as far as showing just how strong he was goes in BoG by having him thrash the strongest form of Goku on Kaiou-sama's planet with no effort whatsoever right in the first minutes of the movie. From that point on, we were all left with the constant, lasting impression that he was all but untouchable, although - to a certain degree of dissatisfaction for me - Whis is above him, and there might be stronger villains than him in the 6th Universe arc.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:13 am

Flame Dragon wrote:It was already implied in BOG that Beerus wanted to destroy Planet Vegeta. He probably didn't like the food from King Vegeta and just said to Freeza "Destroy this planet, i hate their cooking".

Freeza probably didn't listen to him but ended up destroying it anyway for his own reasons (fear of a Super Saiyan rebellion).
Yeah exactly. I don't know why everyone is getting all panicky for, if they don't physically show Beerus destroying Planet Vegeta then he didn't do it regardless of what he says.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Cold Skin » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:22 am

Beerus told Freezer to destroy it while he sleeps.
Freezer had all the time he wanted to destroy it, it still hold that he did it out of fear since he could have done it much later (especially if it's still stated that 39 years is unusually short for Beerus' sleep, like a nap, impllying Freezer knew he had perhaps something like a century to stop exploiting the Saiyans and destroying, but ultimately did it sooner than later due to his own fear).
Beerus-sama wrote:
Herms wrote: Beerus: “I only slept 39 years this time. I want to look sharp.”
Does that means that these scenes with Beerus destroying planets from episodes 1 and 2 are not in the same time where Goku and company events are happening?
It just means that Battle of Gods now happens six months after Boo, it's as simple as that, and brings no problem to the table to move it forward in the timeline.

All the events implying Goku are linked to a star disappearing in the sky (right when Kame Sennin leaves Goku's house), which is linked to the Kaio Shins realizing something's wrong and linked to Beerus destroying worlds like the one he cut in half.
There is likely no time skip: Battle of Gods now happens in year 774, there's nothing more to it.

Then, if you want additionnal details (although this is mere speculations), Champa probably comes to Earth with Beerus in this new updated version of the story so that Goku will face Beerus and Vegeta will face Champa, both of them becoming Super Saiyan Gods and having their own final BOG battle at the same time, so that it's all lined up for their possession of God powers and their training with Whis in the Resurrection 'F' saga.
Last edited by Cold Skin on Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:26 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by MaGyunia » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:23 am

Small correction of my previous post: Piccolo Daimao/Piccolo at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai is/are my favourite antagonist(s) - I have Piccolo Daimao's kanji tattooed on my chest.

Another small correction: we don't really get to see maniacal, absolutely evil characters in DB up until the appearance and introduction of Piccolo Daimao. However, in DBZ pretty much almost every villain (major or not) all the way throughout the series is absolutely evil and genocidal, for one reason or another (Vegeta, Freeza, Future #17, Future #18, Cell, Kid Buu, or even Raditz, Nappa, Zarbon, Dr. Gero, Yakon, Dabura). If we included the movies instead of refraining from it, then the likes of Cooler, Turles and his henchmen and especially Brolly would be right at or close to the top of the list as well, as far as "evilness" and violent tendencies goes.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by sintzu » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:35 am

This is the 3rd time they brought up Beerus being responsible for planet Vegeta's destruction so I think it might be an important plot point later on.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Chuquita » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:37 am

ArchedThunder wrote:
Herms wrote:
Q: Will a new rival for Goku and the gang appear?
A: Yes. And there won’t just be one!

Q: About how strong will these new rivals be?
A: Roughly strong enough to be on par with Goku.
These right here get me hyped.
I want to see Vegeta's reaction to this. X3
His position as Gokû's rival has never been threatened before.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by MaGyunia » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:46 am

It's as simple as this:

Before we got all the leaks and info on the storyline of the arcs of DBSuper, the sequence of events was the following:
- Kid Buu is killed (Majin Buu arc in DBZ)
- 2 years later Tarble, Abo and Kado arrive on Earth (2008 special)
- 2 years later Beerus awakes after 39 years of sleep, searches for the Super Saiya-jin God, fights Goku and goes back to sleep again (BoG)
- Slightly after that Vegeta reaches the SSJG stage himself, Goku and Vegeta go off to train with Whis and Goku and Vegeta both attain SSJGSSJ (off-screen)
- Slightly after that Freeza is resurrected, undergoes training, challenges Goku and Vegeta and gets killed again (Fukkatsu no F)
- 5 years later everyone reunites for a new Tenkaichi Budokai and Uub is introduced (last 3 episodes of DBZ)

Taking into account the way they're redoing the storyline in terms of the introduction of new characters and placing the timing of events, this is the actual sequence we'll get to see in DBSuper:
- Kid Buu is killed (Majin Buu arc in DBZ)
- 6 months later we get to see these first episodes of family interaction, Beerus wakes up and starts destroying planets (DBSuper)
- Champa and his attendant are introduced and Beerus sets off on a mission to find who/what Super Saiya-jin God is (Beerus arc in DBSuper)
- Goku and all the others meet Beerus and Whis (and perhaps Champa and his attendant), fight them, Goku reaches Super Saiya-jin God through some different method and Beerus and Whis leave (Beerus arc in DBSuper)
- Vegeta reaches SSJG himself, Goku and Vegeta decide to train with Whis and reach Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin (Beerus arc in DBSuper)
- Freeza is resurrected, undergoes training, challenges Goku and Vegeta and gets killed again (Freeza arc in DBSuper)
- 6th Universe arc (6th Universe arc in DBSuper)
- 5 years later everyone reunites for a new Tenkaichi Budokai and Uub is introduced (last 3 episodes of DBZ)

This is only speculation, there could indeed be a time-skip and the events we saw in the first episode of DBSuper could be happening at different timings (as in, Goku + Goten or Mr. Satan + Majin Buu happen 6 months after the defeat of Kid Buu whereas Beerus is eating and destroying that planet 4 years later), but there's no reason for them to go this road and pretty much everything we saw in the first episode makes it almost obvious that everything (every arc within DBSuper) will be happening at the same time (6 months after the defeat of Kid Buu), which means that both the setting AND the timing of the events of BoG are being replaced. That's it, pretty simple.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Low Tone G » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:21 am

So where is Pan? When did they meet Tarble? Tarble's existence is retconned? Pan is already conceived 6 months after Kid Buu's death? How will they perform the SSJ-God ritual? Will Pan be born way earlier? Should we get an EOZ retcon?
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Captain Space » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:22 am

Low Tone G wrote:So where is Pan? When did they meet Tarble? Tarble's existence is retconned? Pan is already conceived 6 months after Kid Buu's death? How will they perform the SSJ-God ritual? Will Pan be born way earlier? Should we get an EOZ retcon?
I guess the anniversary special with Tarble, Abo and Cado is now de-canonised...everything else will be answered as Super goes on, I suppose.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by pacz360 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:28 am

So rewatched episode 1 when roshi ran from chi chi what was that thing that went out in the sky?

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