"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by MaGyunia » Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:22 am

We could all postulate a scenario in which Cooler actually "exists" in the main timeline of the Dragonball universe and either never even came to Earth or did indeed come to Earth at some point during the 3-year gap between Goku's return from Yardrat and the Jinzouningen arc and was subsequently defeated by Super Saiya-jin Goku and/or Super Saiya-jin Vegeta, as in, the same character/fighter still exists and some events related to him did indeed take place, but at a different timing and in different circumstances, and obviously off-screen. This would pretty much solve the GT issue of having Cooler showing up escaping from Hell, but there is no issue to start with, as the entirety of GT itself has to be considered "non-canon" and no longer a direct follow-up of the events of DB and DBZ in the series' main timeline.

There is a virtually limitless number of possibilities through which we could "fit" fighters which were introduced in the 13 movies of DBZ in circumstances which would not create inconsistencies or plot holes, but is it really worth the effort? I would bet 95% of those behind DBZ and the distribution of DBZ-related merchandising don't care the slightest bit about whether or not a given fighter is "canon" or not, their purpose is to sell as much as possible.

We've been discussing the "canonness" of the 13 movies and/or GT too much, in my view. We've pretty much already reached the definitive conclusions on the issues presented by them. What we could continue discussing, although we've already done so intensively too, is how the events of the 2008 special, BoG and Fukkatsu no F fit or don't fit into the main timeline of the series as a direct follow-up of DBZ's Majin Buu arc and leading up to the last Tenkaichi Budokai and the introduction of Uub, but even in that area we've already decisively concluded that, for a number of well-documented reasons, DBSuper is basically presenting us the same characters (Beerus, Whis) and the same stages (Super Saiya-jin God Goku, Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin Goku, Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin Vegeta, Golden Freeza) although at a different timing (6 months after the defeat of Kid Buu instead of 4 years later) and in different circumstances.

The debate on the "canonness" of GT, DB's 4 movies, DBZ's 13 movies, Episode of Bardock, Tarble's special, BoG and Fukkatsu no F regarding time inconsistencies and plot holes has me a little bit tired, to be honest. Until further information DBSuper's incoming episodes and arcs, Dragonball's one and only timeline is as follows: Bardock special - DB - DBZ Saiya-jin and Freeza arcs - Trunks special in a different timeline - Jinzouningen and Cell arcs - Movie 9 - Majin Buu arc - DBSuper's first episodes - DBSuper's Beerus arc - DBSuper Freeza arc - DBSuper 6th Universe arc - last 3 episodes of DBZ. Any event depicted outside of this sequence, as far as we know, didnt' "happen". They're "what-if" scenarios exploring "what-if" possibilities, events and characters. It would be interesting to generate a list of events in Dragonball's universe main, one and only timeline BEFORE DB, though, as in, beginning millions of years ago, with Beerus, Whis, Champa, the creation of Majin Buu, Babidi's possession of Dabura, Majin Buu's rampage over the Kaioshin, and all the way throughout time, from King Cold's birth to the natural disaster on Namek, the Kaiou-samas locking of Bojack, Paiku-han's death, Olibu's death, Garlic Jr.'s birth, the split between Kami and Piccolo, the taking over of Planet Plant by the Saiya-jin, etc., etc. (as in, events which are depicted in flashbacks or hinted in DB and/or DBZ).

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Dbzfan94 » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:30 pm

Honestly I would love to see Cooler become canon one way or another. Speaking of Freeza's family, didn't Sorbet mention reviving King Cold in F? Maybe in Super, he revives Freeza and Cold and they both train. Then SSJGSSJ Goku fights one and SSJGSSJ Vegeta fights the other. Just a thought, but I think it would be cool. King Cold was really under used in his brief appearance against Future Trunks

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Oracle » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:06 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:Honestly I would love to see Cooler become canon one way or another. Speaking of Freeza's family, didn't Sorbet mention reviving King Cold in F? Maybe in Super, he revives Freeza and Cold and they both train. Then SSJGSSJ Goku fights one and SSJGSSJ Vegeta fights the other. Just a thought, but I think it would be cool. King Cold was really under used in his brief appearance against Future Trunks
That fight would be awesome. I always wanted to see if King Cold was able to go in further transformations, something like white and purple Freeza. I know is pretty much like DB Multiverse but this could be a chance for a canon version of Toriyama. Anyway, I find it impossible to see this in Super.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Dbzfan94 » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:07 pm

Oracle wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote:Honestly I would love to see Cooler become canon one way or another. Speaking of Freeza's family, didn't Sorbet mention reviving King Cold in F? Maybe in Super, he revives Freeza and Cold and they both train. Then SSJGSSJ Goku fights one and SSJGSSJ Vegeta fights the other. Just a thought, but I think it would be cool. King Cold was really under used in his brief appearance against Future Trunks
That fight would be awesome. I always wanted to see if King Cold was able to go in further transformations, something like white and purple Freeza. I know is pretty much like DB Multiverse but this could be a chance for a canon version of Toriyama. Anyway, I find it impossible to see this in Super.
I don't think it's impossible, just unlikely. King Cold being there would take away from the tension of drama of Freeza being the "big bad"

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by MaGyunia » Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:31 pm

Sure enough, they're retelling BoG so closely that it feels like you're watching the movie all over again. Especially when it comes to Beerus and Whis exchanges of speech regarding the Super Saiya-jin God. They're following the script from BoG almost on a line-by-line basis. It's incredible. Beerus' mentioning of how long it takes to go to Kaiou-sama's planet, Whis' closing of the eye while locating the Saiya-jin on Earth, them watching Goku and Freeza's battle back on Namek, the bingo prizes, #18 expressing interest in them, Beerus mentioning that he wiped out Earth's dinosaurs, Whis saying Prince Vegeta himself is on Earth as a surviving Saiya-jin, and so on.

We already knew they were going to basically retell BoG and introduce Beerus, Whis and Super Saiya-jin God Goku in pretty much the same circumstances as they did in BoG, but I didn't know it would almost feel as if we're watching the first minutes from BoG again. It's literally sentence-by-sentence. I'm not criticizing or expressing disappointment, just stating a fact.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by GokuRules987 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:28 am

At the end of DB Super episode 3 the kaioshins were for some reason talking about beerus and mentioning Uchu! Which means Universe. Could if be that Beerus is a Universe Buster rather than a galaxy buster that we previously though? I guess we have to wait till they done subbing to reveal it ;)
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by sanorin » Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:53 am

GokuRules987 wrote:At the end of DB Super episode 3 the kaioshins were for some reason talking about beerus and mentioning Uchu! Which means Universe. Could if be that Beerus is a Universe Buster rather than a galaxy buster that we previously though? I guess we have to wait till they done subbing to reveal it ;)
He's saying something like "perhaps this time he won't stop at a few planets, he might destroy the whole universe"

What do you mean exactly by "galaxy buster"? I've never heard of that, as far as I know, Beerus is the God of Destruction of Universe 7, and there are a total of 12 universes with 12 Gods of Destruction.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:09 am

sanorin wrote:
GokuRules987 wrote:At the end of DB Super episode 3 the kaioshins were for some reason talking about beerus and mentioning Uchu! Which means Universe. Could if be that Beerus is a Universe Buster rather than a galaxy buster that we previously though? I guess we have to wait till they done subbing to reveal it ;)
He's saying something like "perhaps this time he won't stop at a few planets, he might destroy the whole universe"

What do you mean exactly by "galaxy buster"? I've never heard of that, as far as I know, Beerus is the God of Destruction of Universe 7, and there are a total of 12 universes with 12 Gods of Destruction.
In V-Jump, the original Japanese trailer for BOG and Heroes the gods are galaxy busters.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:13 am

miguelnuva1 wrote:In V-Jump, the original Japanese trailer for BOG and Heroes the gods are galaxy busters.
You're not in the "In-Universe" section -- you folks need to remember that the rest of fandom doesn't necessarily speak in your strength comparison lingo.

What people are discussing here (and whether or not it's even appropriate for this thread is another matter entirely) is that, for example, in one of the early Battle of Gods trailers, Piccolo states (in response to Kuririn saying the Earth is doomed), "No, the entire galaxy will cease to be." This line is not present in the actual movie itself; it was only present in the trailer.

"Buster" is strength comparison debate lingo for "can destroy _______". A "galaxy buster" is someone who has the strength to destroy an entire galaxy by themselves with their own power. I have no idea what the linear progression would be. I guess it's "planet buster" to "solar system buster" to "galaxy buster" to "universe buster" or something like that.

But again, probably not really relevant for this thread.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Flame Dragon » Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:25 pm

I'm starting to think they might fix the whole "Freeza 4 Months" deal in Super.
Since Beerus appears earlier in Super, they can give Freeza more time for training in the timeline.

Also i'm starting to think Trunks and Goten didn't appear in FNF because they don't want to spoil a potential Teen Trunks and Gohan design.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:41 pm

Flame Dragon wrote:Since Beerus appears earlier in Super, they can give Freeza more time for training in the timeline.
We don't really know, if Beerus did wake up in age 774/775 rather than age 778, as stated in guidebooks.
The narrator stated some time had passed, since they made that wish to Shenlong, but a specific timeframe is conspicuous by its absence.. maybe to not spoil Pan's birth for those unaware of BoG.
Of course it's only stated, that it takes place slightly after the Buu Arc and I think the narrator in the first episode said the days had passed and the manga chapter too at most says monts had passed.
Not terms one would associate with more than 2 years passing, but who knows what twisted logic they might use?

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Captain Space » Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:50 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
Flame Dragon wrote:Since Beerus appears earlier in Super, they can give Freeza more time for training in the timeline.
We don't really know, if Beerus did wake up in age 774/775 rather than age 778, as stated in guidebooks.
The narrator stated some time had passed, since they made that wish to Shenlong, but a specific timeframe is conspicuous by its absence.. maybe to not spoil Pan's birth for those unaware of BoG.
Of course it's only stated, that it takes place slightly after the Buu Arc and I think the narrator in the first episode said the days had passed and the manga chapter too at most says monts had passed.
Not terms one would associate with more than 2 years passing, but who knows what twisted logic they might use?
I thought Super was confirmed as six months after Buu.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:08 pm

Captain Space wrote:I thought Super was confirmed as six months after Buu.
Some promotional material said that to be the case and it does make sense, what with Mr. Satan getting the Peace Prize(are they really going to wait 4 years with that?), 1st chapter of the manga stating months passed, rather than years(which frankly is ridiculous, if 4 years passed), the narrator in episode 1 apparently says days had passed since the last wish to Shenlong(source: fansubs :thumbdown: ).
That same promotional material was wrong about Gohan and Videl not being married yet, so it may have got other Things wrong too.
It should also be noted, that Toriyama didn't give a time-frame other than it was an aftermath of Buu Arc.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:54 pm

Well they have to be something different for the Shenron summoning from BoG. If Super is only a few days after they summoned Shenron then there's no Dragon Balls. It'll be interstimg to see how Goku will eventually learn how to go SSJG without learning about the ritual. Honestly I wouldn't mind if that was scrapped.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Araki » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:07 pm

dbgtFO wrote:the narrator in episode 1 apparently says days had passed since the last wish to Shenlong(source: fansubs :thumbdown: ).
The narrator said it was six months until the wish, "and then some time has passed". No specific reference to days/months/years whatsoever, but it's something along these lines, very vague.
That's why i think the "six months later" timeline might be off, but that will be made clear if Videl is pregnant..

At first i thought they would drop the ritual, but the show seems to be trying to make it clear that Gohan and Videl are a married couple now, so i think they might be going there.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by LuckyCat » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:25 pm

Araki wrote:At first i thought they would drop the ritual, but the show seems to be trying to make it clear that Gohan and Videl are a married couple now, so i think they might be going there.
That's a really good point. While Gohan and Videl's wedding stuff could be dismissed as background fluff, it would be smart writing to use the wedding to foreshadow Pan's arrival.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Ushabtis » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:28 pm

but pans arrival can't be soon, it'd mess up the whole EOZ thing and her age. and i doubt Gohan/Videl will have a different/new kid.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:44 pm

Ushabtis wrote:but pans arrival can't be soon, it'd mess up the whole EOZ thing and her age. and i doubt Gohan/Videl will have a different/new kid.
Age should not be a problem, it doesnt change radically eoz, do you remember when Toriyama change (in-universe) Goku's age from 14 to 12 ?
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:45 pm

Araki wrote:That's why i think the "six months later" timeline might be off, but that will be made clear if Videl is pregnant..
With the amount of Toriyama retcons in recent years, Videl being pregnant won't really make anything clear. While it would certainly throw some evidence into the "Still taking place in AGE 778" category, 6 months and some change is still plenty of time to get married and have a fetus growing inside you for a couple of months (even if it does feel super rushed). Honestly, things won't be clear until they actually come right out and say "this takes place in AGE 77X" via another guidebook, a website, Jump, whatever.
Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:Age should not be a problem, it doesnt change radically eoz, do you remember when Toriyama change (in-universe) Goku's age from 14 to 12 ?
It doesn't radically change anything, but it is still a contradiction. It worked for Goku because he didn't have living family and couldn't count. The cast is large enough now that we actually have a few educated people around for these events. It would be a bit odd at least to have the manga say she's four and then someone in Super be like "Oh, we were mistaken. We thought she was 4 but she actually popped out of Videl 9 years ago".
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Ushabtis » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:46 pm

Lol i don't remember that, but in all honesty I don't really want a baby character running around in super.
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